The NRA (National Rifle Association)

[Grat3fulh3ad]

h3ad sounds like youv'e been hearing too much lib prop.
the nra has helped keep guns legal.

Sounds like you have not been listening to me. I never said that the NRA has done nothing to help keep guns legal... I simply said that the NRA is not necessary to keep guns legal, Though they would have you think they are...

What Am I saying that is liberal propaganda?

You who think that the NRA is the only thing keeping gun ownership safe are the one's who have fallen for the propaganda...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

How do you know they'll take your gun's away? "The nra told me so..."
How do you know Saddam planned 911? "the government told me so..."
How do you know there's a hell and heaven? "the church told me so..."
How do you know there is a santa claus? "My parents told me so..."

I'm not going to believe anything simply because someone told me so... Especially someone whose interest are served by my belief... Liberal propaganda or Conservative propaganda don't mean much to me... I've been around long enough to see the truth without anyone else having to interpret it for me....


Like I said... I was an NRA member for 18 years and my grandfather one for 40 years... It's not as though I'm talking from a lack of experience here... They've changed, and their agenda has changed... And opposing gun laws of any type regardless of any other political consequences is worse than irresponsible... "we put a psychopath into the whitehouse whose policies caused thousands of innocent's deaths... but at least there ain't no new gun laws"

 

[orgogliodiprovi]

right on brotha

 

[B.C.]

Hine(sp?) sight is 20-20

Hine(sp?) sight is 20-20

Do you really think that if folks knew ahead of time what Bush was going ta do they would have supported him? Common sence tells me no.You can't predict what someones gonna do ahead of time,even his loyal followers couldn't.I could go on all day about what Bush has ****ed up,but I'm not goin to,you know already.....I'm not afraid were goin ta be over ran with terroists,and it's plum stupid ta think we are going ta overthrow the gov with our guns.But I'm afraid that if there isn't someone right there watchin ta make sure that my gun rights aren't violated,I'd be gettin ****ed over.I know yer thinkin NRA propaganda huh? NO it's not,it's jus the way our gov works,don't beleive me? Lets take a look at the profit of forfieture(sp?) act fer a second. Because there was nobody there to oppose it,the shit flew through so fast no one could stop it.It was intended for big time drug dealers,guess what,if ya get caught with felony amout of pot there gonna take yer shit.Like yer some kinda drug lord er somethin.I know,I've been through it.Ha lets look at why pot isn't legal ta begin with.If it were left up ta the people it would be legal.But since it goes by way of the gov I don't think it will ever be legal.Why,hhhmm could it be noone can match the money that the big pharmasuitical(sp?) companies spend on lobbying against it.Could be eh? And it goes all the way down the gov ladder to your local courthouse.If you have a public deffender your goin ta prision,but you can hire the same ****in guy as a private att.and get off with probation....It's all about the money keepin the wheels of justice gressed.I reckon this is one of those subjects folks are gonna beleive what they want no matter what.That's the way it goes sometimes.Se la vee....Take care...BC

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Do you really think that if folks knew ahead of time what Bush was going ta do they would have supported him? Common sence tells me no.You can't predict what someones gonna do ahead of time,even his loyal followers couldn't.I could go on all day about what Bush has ****ed up,but I'm not goin to,you know already.....I'm not afraid were goin ta be over ran with terroists,and it's plum stupid ta think we are going ta overthrow the gov with our guns.But I'm afraid that if there isn't someone right there watchin ta make sure that my gun rights aren't violated,I'd be gettin ****ed over.I know yer thinkin NRA propaganda huh? NO it's not,it's jus the way our gov works,don't beleive me? Lets take a look at the profit of forfieture(sp?) act fer a second. Because there was nobody there to oppose it,the shit flew through so fast no one could stop it.It was intended for big time drug dealers,guess what,if ya get caught with felony amout of pot there gonna take yer shit.Like yer some kinda drug lord er somethin.I know,I've been through it.Ha lets look at why pot isn't legal ta begin with.If it were left up ta the people it would be legal.But since it goes by way of the gov I don't think it will ever be legal.Why,hhhmm could it be noone can match the money that the big pharmasuitical(sp?) companies spend on lobbying against it.Could be eh? And it goes all the way down the gov ladder to your local courthouse.If you have a public deffender your goin ta prision,but you can hire the same ****in guy as a private att.and get off with probation....It's all about the money keepin the wheels of justice gressed.I reckon this is one of those subjects folks are gonna beleive what they want no matter what.That's the way it goes sometimes.Se la vee....Take care...BC

I don't know... Everyone had FOUR YEARS to see exactly what his agenda was, and then still supported him... No one is saying you should have predicted the future, No one would be so foolish... I'm saying that by the second round, his character and agenda were CLEAR, and yet The NRA wanted him to stay in office...

You can try to justify it all you want to, but the facts are still the same...

The NRA does in fact have you thinking someone is trying to take your gun... Show me the evidence they're right...

You're right I guess, some folks want to be told what to believe... Some folks will try to find out the truth and believe that... Some folks just won't care...

The profit from forfeiture as evidence they want to take your gun? That's crazy... Where's the profit in taking your gun? That's no sort of evidence for your point whatsoever, quite the opposite if you think for a moment...

The NRA has done more harm than good, Intentional or not.
The NRA is not necessary to maintain gun ownership rights, The gun companies won't be without lobbiest to watch over their political interest...

Morality demanded that I quit supporting any organization which would support war crimes, which they did... Sorry, I have to take the high ground... There are alot of things more important than keeping guns available to anyone who can walk into Wal-Mart...

 

[muddy waters]

There are alot of things more important than keeping guns available to anyone who can walk into Wal-Mart...

I'm callin' bullshit. What could possibly be more important than that? habeus corpus???

 

[B.C.]

Someone has ta keep an eye on em...

Someone has ta keep an eye on em...

The profit from forfeiture as evidence they want to take your gun? That's crazy... Where's the profit in taking your gun? That's no sort of evidence for your point whatsoever, quite the opposite if you think for a moment...

Naa man,I didn't mean it like that.I jus meant this law was ram rodded through before anyone even really knew what all it meant,much less a chance ta stop it(where was Normal?).So now a law thats designed for Columbian cocaine dealers is now affecting people gettin busted with a felony amount of pot.Sneaky huh? I jus don't want this type of thing happening to my gun rights or any other of my rights as far that goes.I reckon yer prolly right Head,the NRA is really not needed as long as the gun makers are going ta keep an eye on these anti-gunbills and lobby($$$) fer us gun owners.Also,it does make me sick that the NRA still backs a warmonger like Bush.I think I'm done with em too.Thanks fer showin me the light Head! later man,BC

 

[B.C.]

I hear ya Muddy

I hear ya Muddy

I'm callin' bullshit. What could possibly be more important than that? habeus corpus???

The ****head took us back ta the stone age when it comes ta civil rights.Why isn't someone impeching him? Take care...BC

 

[muddy waters]

Why isn't someone impeching him?

cuz in america you got what amounts to two variations of one state party.

invading iraq was and is still not up for discussion in the "democracy". impeaching him would lead to an investigation which would uncover the lies and complicity of the media and the congress, like another pentagon papers from vietnam, and the house of cards might come falling down, and the american presence in the middle east and supreme support for israel with it.

so. impeachment is "off the table."

(until someone gets a blowjob, then impeachment is absolutely necessary and gonna be on the front page of all the magazines while the US covertly bombs Iranian civilians.)

 

[Smokin' Chopper]

I love this thread and this forum.

I love this thread and this forum.

So I have a lot to read it looks like. Just wanted to jump backward for a moment add some comments.

When will we have the right to have missiles?

A very fair point, but do consider who is aiming these missiles. Our fathers, sons, brothers, nephews, cousins…. The list goes on. If our freedoms were really being taken away, do you think our loved ones in the Armed Forces would sit idle and take their own flesh and blood captive?

Personally (and fortunately) I don’t see it ever coming to this, at least not in the typical combat sense. I think of the 2nd Amendment in this sense, more like a game of chess merely keeping some pieces in “check”.

Thinking you can overthrow the military might of the US government, with rifles and handguns is extremely niave…

I would agree, but consider my point above, and also consider Russia’s advance on Afganistan many years ago. Who knew that sticks and stones can really turn back tanks? Believe me, I do understand what you’re saying, and I have only my personal quote to provoke some thought. “I could be a bird in a cage, alive and breathing, but always in a cage…. Or I can die being free.” Personally I’ll choose freedom over a cage any day, and death is merely the next great adventure waiting to happen. But now I’m getting into religion and a new thread perhaps.

Now I have a lot to read and catch up on. Unfortunately much is said while I’m off at work, but great content here.

Getting back to the whole gun ownership thing:

There are many sub-points that can be made on the NRA and guns in general and we’ve probably only touched on less than half of them so I just wanted to list a couple here for pondering.

Like several here in IC, I live in a relatively rural, mountainous area. I’m within 60 miles of a major city and I’m sure I don’t have to explain the different mind sets between city life and country… It never ceases to amaze me how many city types move up to the mountains wanting to see the wild life and then complain when its standing right in an open doorway, window, on the deck, etc. Here’s the sad part:

I’ve seen countless times how a mountain lion has to get darted and transported hundreds, if not thousands of miles away from an area because it was “dangerously close” to someone’s home, children, pets, or whatever.

With the mountain lion population decreased by selective relocation, deer, elk and other critter populations start to increase substantially. When these creatures start to overpopulate we start seeing some very disturbing things. Foxes that attack toddlers instead of running… this is not an instinct trait for a fox to attack, it’s a proven genetic birth defect in short caused from inbreeding due to such overpopulation.

Deer and elk, chronic wasting disease…

Coyote, overpopulated in the 48 contiguous United States…

Rabbits, squirrels, and the rodent species, now displaying signs of plague…

And all because predatory creatures like big cats, bears, wolves, etc. are “Too close” to humans.

This is where we hunters come in. I will not argue there are mindless idiots out there hunting just for the sake of killing something, or maybe for a “trophy”. But keep in mind there are those of us out there that are glad for the meat that can support our families for a while, helping save money for other things (like funding legalizing marijuana programs), and keeping a conscious eye on the habitat around us. Not fighting it, but attempting to re-establish a balance and co-exist with it.

This is my main reason for supporting my 2nd Amendment rights. This is why I have very little complaint to the semi-auto and auto discussions. One shot, one kill. I don’t use a semi-auto to hunt.

In favor of semi-auto weapons and those that have successfully earned a class 3:

America is still very naïve to think that there is no possibility of fighting a war on our soils. 9/11 perhaps wasn’t a good enough example that our Playstations, computers, Ipods, etc. won’t mean much of a damn thing if we had foreign soldiers on our lands. Don’t think it can happen? Do you really think America are the only ones with the “cool toy” technology in this world?

Look around you in this very forum. You’re amongst people from all reaches of the planet, and I’m sure some of them can tell you about some very nifty technological advances in their own military. With all that said, I still have a lot to read and catch up on. In closing for this post I’ll just say this:

I respect your wishes and opinions on firearms. I wouldn’t vote to take away your pot, please don’t vote to take away my guns. In return if we ever do get attacked, you roll the fattie and I’ll keep the bad guys away as long as I can. Keep the blunts and ammo coming!

SC

 

[Guest]

"I could be a bird in a cage, alive and breathing, but always in a cage....Or I can die being free."

whaaaa? forealz, whaaaat?

plez explain. why bird go cagin? how bird get free to die? this quote makes no senz @all. why always in cage?

take my gun from my cold dead hands.

fu

 

[muddy waters]

SC, hunting for meat and hunting for trophy just don't seem like the same impulse to me. I wouldn't really know not having ever done the latter... and having hunted for meat only fish and birds, nothing warm-blooded and furry or anything... I will try to refrain from judging any more than I have already...

As for a military invasion on American soil, not in our lifetimes, friend, not for a long while, if ever. The right of the citizens to bear arms didn't do much to keep the British from burning the federal capital in the war of 1812 and it probably wouldn't make a huge difference either now. I don't think NRA members and hunters have quite the same experience with warfare that the Afghan Pashtu people have, either, in response to your comment about Afghanistan and the Soviets. (And don't forget the US (through the CIA) backed some guy named Bin Laden with weapons and cash to keep the Soviets at bay).

I hear you when you talk about the terrible effects of rampant suburbanization on ecology and wilderness. Again, it's the American political parties which have sanctioned and encouraged this pattern of development (which is also a major contributor to the greenhouse gas crisis). Hunters have also in the past and even today considered the predators you mentioned as competitors and tried to eliminate them. The Bush Admin right now is supporting the delisting of the wolf as an endangered species in Wyoming (where it was extinct from poisoning and hunting until reintroduction in 1995) and allowing Wyoming Fish & Game (read: hunters) to have open season on wolves again. Seems to me there are still too many humans that think their wants are more important than our planet or our society.

 

[Guest]

amen brotha muddy waters....drivin n cryn baby....

wolves are trapped in alaska and they tryn to do grizzs to.

man should only kill for food...long pork?

fu

 

[Stoney Mama]

I grew up w/ guns.. grandfather collected.. war vet.. everyone hunted.. life was great.. now that i'm a little older and have seen people hurt(hunting accidents, people shot criminally,, domestics).. there's really no reason for a guns to survive (except a minimal part of the overal population in very remote areas) ..

For every person that has "Actually" whipped out a gun in defense and shot a would be attacker legitimatley.. there's how many kids shot, friends relatives shot in.. totally innocent accidents. Sorry but unless its bolt action rifle or maybe in EXTREME remote areas high caliber pistols revolvers make sense.

Most gun guys will admit most people shouldn't own guns.. becuase they dont have the sense.. but will say up and down that everyone should be able to bear arms and that your rights are more important than safety.

criminals get guns from two main places.. sold in store by the manufacturerss supporting the nra or just as often STOLEN from the closets of avid gun lovers.. who have guns (like pistols and semi autos.. you know for fun)... either way the gun manufacturers sold it. it all comes around ...killing in america via accident, domestic or stolen criminal.. it all funds nra and the gov... alot of money in guns.

Most nra guys also take the right to bear arms out of context.. the amendment if read in whole translates to say that the citizens have a right to militias to defend it self from enemies and the gov... well guess what.. the coast guard is a national militia.. and ... what do you think your gonna do if the gov is coming for you? lets get real.. it doesn't even say you have the right to hunt, or do anything.. its all been taken out of context.


So what do we do?? Ban and allow all semi auto weapons /with intent of design to be used in anything other than real hunting. Possibly even only bolt action. Why? because the only people to have them will be hunters.

Pistols? Ban everything except for hunting/defense pistols in states and areas where it is used. Why? pistols aren't used for anything except personal gratification.. or killing human beings.
Any ex military weapon that has extreme value can be kept but with a registration
anything else.. well sorry.. but
What gets done with the guns out there? well make a "window of time" for citizens to surrender weapons.. after this window.. your rights start getting taken away real quick!!

another idea is stopping all manufacturing and importation of the actual ammunition for weapons already out there.

I have this attitude from knowing people personally blinded from hunting, friends that shot themselves, classmates ex boyfriend gun attack, seeing boyz in the day brandishing weapons.. whatever.. its not worth letting the few have there amendment flag waving rights.. there's more important ones to fight here.. like how bout prohibition of marijuana. at least if a kid finds that in your bedroom sock drawer instead of a gun there wont be a spilling of blood.

sorry for my rant... continue slaying bambi .. carry on.

I live out in the middle of nowhere. If someone were to break in with the intent to do me harm, it would take the police a good 30 minutes to get here. If I didn't own a gun in such an instance, there would be no need for them to come at all and they could just transfer the call to the coroner. So because you know people who were irresponsible, you think that I should have to give up my right to protect myself?

My guns are locked in a gun safe when I'm not home. My kids aren't getting them, but I'll be damned if I'll be a victim in my own home just because someone else is stupid.

 

[Discombobul8]

God created man. Sam Colt made them equal.

 

[hazy]

start wherever you like
hey, i know muddy, say i have a low IQ.(you must have seen my can you roll thread)
then you guys can get a book of name-calling words. and call me some names.
make sure they're real zingers now.

i think if our founders were so stupid, oh no, i mean outdated, then i don't see what purpose the other ammendments have either, especially that 1st one.

most of them mean little to our gov, congress and president included.
i don't know why libs think bush is conservative. he's not. i will grant you that he ain't that smart. i did not vote for him.
i don't think he cares about the 2nd am.
no, the nra is not needed, but they serve as a way for regular people to have a stronger voice. hard for me or yukon to quit the job to go to wash. to lobby.
but, honestly we or the nra should not have to. congress should not vote for anything that is against the constitution, whether we tell them to or not to, or whether the congressman thinks the law is a good idea, or a point in the constituion outdated.
only ron paul thinks like that though.

 

[DickAnubis]

The Government is us. We the people need to remember this.
The only thing that separates our freedom from the lost freedoms of other countries past and present is that everybody here has guns. When only the police have guns a police state arises.
If all children were taught to drive a car and properly shoot a gun, we would have a much more civilized society.
It's wanton wrecklessness that should be outlawed through education.

PIECE & PEACE DA

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

The only thing that separates our freedom from the lost freedoms of other countries past and present is that everybody here has guns. When only the police have guns a police state arises.

PIECE & PEACE DA

Police states like Canada and England and Netherlands?

#1. America's 'freedom' is an illusion for the most part... There are lot's of countries with more individual freedoms and privacies...

#2. If the Govt. wanted to institute a police state (which the patriot act did), then your .30-'06 isn't going to stop their fighter planes, tanks and bombers...

#3. By listening to the NRA and voting accordingly, OUR COUNTRY HAS BEEN MADE LESS FREE... Thanks NRA...

 

[DickAnubis]

Since you seem to have addressed your post to me. Here's my rebuttal.
Don't set up straw men just to knock them down.

I didn't mention any countries, if you're asking I'm not sure what the question is.

as far as our freedoms I wasn't comparing it to any others' just stating that in many instances guns being taken away from citizen sets up the opportunity for complete state control. In the same way that economic power stripped away from citizens creates the same potential. Now we could discuss if that has happened here in the states but we should make a new thread then.

Actually your second statement is speculative. We are the Government. There are some who would like to make us think otherwise and the complacency of abundance has let us loosen our grip. I believe we the people can regain control through peaceful methods like economic boycott, exercising in the free market, working to repair a flexible system that has equal capacity for positive or negative governance.

I also hold true to my right to buy a gun with the proper permits. I don't hunt, I'm Vegan, but I know how to shoot a gun and that's a freedom that's not about fighting an apocalyptic war against my neighbors but assuring my personal survival in the most extreme case. I also enjoy target shooting.

If it's illegal guns you're worried about, let's go together and figure out a way to control it. I'm in. Is it gun manufacturers, gun wholesalers and retailers? Do we need to regulate how guns move from manufacture to market? Let's try it, I'm all for eliminating inproper gun possession and use. And if NRA policies bug you, work to change them. Join the NRA and change it from within. That can work.

Considering your third point. Who said I listen to the NRA and their voting suggestions. I'm FREE to do what I like.

ALWAYS PEACE DA

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Well, Dick... I'm all for gun ownership... I'm not worried about guns at all... I just don't like what the NRA has become...
This is an NRA thread...

Also, If your going to discount my statements as speculative, I'll have to discount the premise for your prior post as speculation as well... Or can you prove them?

You said if our citizens weren't armed we would become a police state...
Speculative and unprovable...

BTW... Govt. of the people, by the people, and for the people is another illusion...