*The K.I.S.S. Method*

[DoDad]

Oh sorry

That quarter to half runoff is after the 1 gallon Rez has been flushed with new solution. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm not the expert here but wouldn't those nutes hold the same PPM/PH even after runoff?

I know when I change my recirculating rez that my PH and PPM seem the same as when I put them in there even after being well used for over a week.

Maybe when capture your runoff, keep that runoff from being exposed to air and light and you might be able to use that runoff again the next time you water after a check of PH and PPM?

 

[Grassachusetts7]

I like to give the roots fresh oxygen daily. I know it's a bit off the original design but I like the results. That's why Maxi is best for me. The waste goes into my outdoor gardens after use so I don't feel that guilty it's more work but I like to be in the garden daily anyway. Hope this paints a better picture..

Peace

 

[DoDad]

I'm seeing some leaves on a couple of plants having this condition.

Is this a calcium deficiency? Does this have anything to do with MB and first two weeks of flower?

What is it, how might I fix it?

The consensus is Thrips. Nothing to do with Maxibloom. Spinosad for foliar and soil drench should fix my issue.

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

Yes that is thrips and Spinosad is the cure

 

[DoDad]

I'm not having any nute burn in my hempys at 650 ppm but it's too high for my DWC plants.

I have a few rooted clones I have been running 12/12 under 5000k florescent light. I'm seeing some tip burn so when I changed my rez this morning, I dropped ppms to low 600's.

Someone in this thread said to watch that 1tsp per gallon in a DWC. They said that amount may be too strong and they were right.

Is 600 PPM low enough for Maxibloom and DWC?

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

at 500 or 700 scale?

 

[DoDad]

at 500 or 700 scale?

500 or .5 I think. This is my meter.

http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/tds3.html

 

[RetroGrow]

Those seedlings are too small to handle it. I would've waited until clones were bigger before dropping in buckets. They have those skinny stems that seedlings under fluoros get trying to stretch for more light.

 

[DoDad]

Those seedlings are too small to handle it. I would've waited until clones were bigger before dropping in buckets. They have those skinny stems that seedlings under fluoros get trying to stretch for more light.

What PPM should I be using on plants that small? They were rooted clones when I put them in the DWC.

Floros is correct too. My tent in full. I have these and the DWC in my closet in sort of an experiment. Hell, this my first grow ever, so it's all an experiment.

I keep thinking any day now that some of my tent plants will show sex and when I cull the males, I will have room for these clones in the tent. So far showing sex hasn't happened and in the mean time they sit in my closet and stretch and burn a bit at 12/12.

What nobody has posted here is a feeding schedule. It's obvious you can't run full strength MB on seedlings but you have to feed them something other than water at week 3.

Seedlings 1-2 weeks old no MB. I get that, but how much MB do I feed at week 3 and when do I start feeding full strength?

What about rooted clones? I was told in this thread that it was safe to run full strength on rooted clones as soon as the roots were large enough to support the plant. That obvious isn't the case so what should the feeding schedule be on clones with MB?

 

[sidewing]

full strength is considered 1tsp/gal which is about 1.7ec (or 850ppm @ 0.5 conversion). which in my opinion should be ran on a mature flowering plant under a high intensity light. running something under flouro's require lower ppm's.
in dwc ph is extremely important, what is your PH? should be 5.8.
the KISS method says run 1tsp/gal from beginning of veg thru harvest. but a plant under a low output light will not use that much food.
light intensity will affect the ec/ppm that you need to run. more lumens means the plant is capable of converting more energy at a faster rate. so running floro's typically would indicate less lumens, but you haven't specified your wattage or lumen output so..
a rooted clone, once the roots touch the water can typically handle what you would run full strength in veg.
easiest way to tell in DWC if you're overfeeding is check your PPM when you mix your reservoir.. as the water level is dropping, if your PPM is rising, then you're feeding too much.
in my opinion I dont see how 600ppm could be burning your plant. it doesn't look like a problem from the pictures, the new growth is healthy. but monitor your PPM daily and if its rising, then you know you have to run a lower ppm level. regardless, you have time to adjust, 600ppm will not kill your plant. just check your ppm every morning.. you can dilute your reservoir to drop PPM in the mean time if that's the case by just adding plain water.
each plant is different, some strains are more hungry than others. if it's getting burned then adjust your dose accordingly. if it's looking hungry, up the dose. checking your PPM daily will tell you what's happening before the plant shows you, a good thing about dwc.
If your ppm is dropping, that means it's eating more than its drinking, and your ppm level is lower than ideal (the sweet spot).
if your ppm is rising, that means its drinking more than its eating, and your ppm is higher than ideal.
a perfect ppm will drop at the same rate as the water level, staying the same. but its hard to target that sweet spot, just get as close as you can on the low side. you don't want your ppm rising, it's better for it to be dropping slightly on the daily.
a seedling and a fresh rooted clone are not the same thing. seedlings dont need much food, rooted clones need as much as a regular mature vegetating plant, because that's what they are. they can handle it, they just will eat and drink at a slower rate because they don't have as many roots to uptake. usually you can run one res for 2 weeks after transplant, but after that point the roots are established and you want to be changing out the res once a week to keep your nutrient balance in check in your reservoir.

if you want to thicken those stems up, consider using a silica additive, i like DutchMaster Silica Gold. be aware silica will raise your ph, so adjust accordingly.
also putting an oscillating fan on your plants will also thicken up the stems.

 

[RetroGrow]

What PPM should I be using on plants that small? They were rooted clones when I put them in the DWC.

Floros is correct too. My tent in full. I have these and the DWC in my closet in sort of an experiment. Hell, this my first grow ever, so it's all an experiment.

I keep thinking any day now that some of my tent plants will show sex and when I cull the males, I will have room for these clones in the tent. So far showing sex hasn't happened and in the mean time they sit in my closet and stretch and burn a bit at 12/12.

What nobody has posted here is a feeding schedule. It's obvious you can't run full strength MB on seedlings but you have to feed them something other than water at week 3.

Seedlings 1-2 weeks old no MB. I get that, but how much MB do I feed at week 3 and when do I start feeding full strength?

What about rooted clones? I was told in this thread that it was safe to run full strength on rooted clones as soon as the roots were large enough to support the plant. That obvious isn't the case so what should the feeding schedule be on clones with MB?

It has to do with the size of the clones. From looking at those, they don't even look like clones. They look like seedlings that were recently sprouted, and were stretching for light because of low light intensity. Bigger clones with thicker stems would have been preferable. I've never seen clones that scrawny (no offense). I have a hard time believing those are clones. If someone sold you those, you got hosed. Clones should be a lot bigger than that, with much thicker stems. If those are clones, they must have been cloned from seedlings...
Anyway, cut your feeding way down until you have a developed root system and some size-able leaves. DWC probably not the best choice for your first grow. I would actually toss those, get some decent clones, or start from seed in coco in Hempy buckets, which is a very simple and relatively foolproof method. Are you sure those are clones? I think someone put one over on you and sold you some seedlings as clones. Never seen clones like that.

 

[DoDad]

It has to do with the size of the clones. From looking at those, they don't even look like clones. They look like seedlings that were recently sprouted, and were stretching for light because of low light intensity. Bigger clones with thicker stems would have been preferable. I've never seen clones that scrawny (no offense). I have a hard time believing those are clones. If someone sold you those, you got hosed. Clones should be a lot bigger than that, with much thicker stems. If those are clones, they must have been cloned from seedlings...
Anyway, cut your feeding way down until you have a developed root system and some size-able leaves. DWC probably not the best choice for your first grow. I would actually toss those, get some decent clones, or start from seed in coco in Hempy buckets, which is a very simple and relatively foolproof method. Are you sure those are clones? I think someone put one over on you and sold you some seedlings as clones. Never seen clones like that.

I'm so offended!! Not really. Can people get offended on a weed forum? I see a lot of pissing matches going on but they cannot really be serious.

Yes, I cut them myself so unless the MJ fairy did a switcharoo, those are the same ones.

Toss them? NEVER. Weed in any form is too hard to come by. Hell, I'm planning on using the roots and stems. I've already grown about 1/2 lb of leaves so I've already considered this first grow a success.

Fergit those particular clones for a second. What I need and I suspect others would appreciate and, has not been provided in this thread is somewhat of a feeding schedule. Something like this:

From seed:

week 1-2 - just water
week 3 - 1/4 tsp
week 4 - 1/2 tsp
week 5 till flush - 1 tsp

From rooted Clones:

week 1 - 1/2 tsp
week 2 - 3/4 tsp
week 3 till flush - 1 tsp

yeah, yeah yeah, all the nuisances, light intensity, root mass, strain, I hear ya, but then if it's that complicated, then it ain't k.i.s.s.

I'm growing under HPS, CFL and Floro. 4 different strains and watering under two different methods, two different mediums at least. I can't adjust for all variances even if I knew how and what to adjust.

This thread started out as 7 grams per gallon. Then the PPM discussion came along making things more complicated. When I tried to jack my ppms to 850 my PH must be around 4. Then I have to add PH up, which jacks up my ppm's. I dilute my water to lower the PPM's and that jacks my PH again.

Fuck it. 1 tsp per gallon gives me a ph of about 6 according to my PH test drops and this gives me a PPM rating of about 650ish. I don't know where you guys get the 800-850 PPM's for 1 tsp but if that works for you, I'm happy for ya. I'm a teaspoon guy, it's a measurement I understand.

 

[sidewing]

Unfortunately if you want to run DWC successfully you have to monitor ppm, and ph at least until you get it to where you know what its doing.

I looked up your TDS meter you posted, it has a screw that turns to adjust the conversion rate.. so we're assuming that its factory calibration was correct and it's ABOUT .5 (stated from the website). but in theory it could be anything. so its a possibilty your meter could be off. regardless. if you want to run DWC blind, unless you're very lucky you won't have much success. if your ph is not in the ideal zone, your plants will not uptake properly, and you'll run into all kinds of deficiencies.

regardless, here is your general rule of thumb you're asking for (relating to dwc):
seedling, first week, nothing, just tap water.
second week, 1/4 tsp per gallon
3rd week, 1/2 tsp per gallon
4th week on, 3/4 tsp per gallon

from clone:
1st week: 1/2tsp per gallon.
2nd week on: 3/4 tsp per gallon.

when you switch to flower, go to 1tsp per gallon.
I think you're misunderstand the KISS concept is that its a 1 part nutrient that gives you basically lucas formula. its simple because you arent having to mix 2 or 3 or several different liquids together to get a complete line. In soil and coco you may be able to get away without ph adjustment. not in dwc. if you're lucky enough to have a ph of about six, maybe you'll skate by. dwc and hydro in general is not meant to be a beginner or easy method.. it can be, but you have rules to follow. and it gives you the capability of dialing in to feed the plant a very precise amount of nutrients.. playing with the ph to affect uptake. and if you choose to ignore those very important factors, at best you'll pull a below average plant. at worst it will die.

KISS is not that complicated. hydro and dwc in particular is. to put it simply, if you choose to ignore PPM and PH in hydro, then what are you really doing trying to run it?

 

[DoDad]

Here's what it looks like in my tent this morning all these ahve been running MB at 1 tsp per gallon now for a while.

 

[RetroGrow]

Err on the side of caution. I just use the little measuring spoon that comes with it. Works for me.
Did you say this was your first grow, or did I imagine that?
If you really want K.I.S.S., Hempys are as simple as it gets.
Deep water culture probably not the best for beginner, but if you have the gear, you will learn by trial and error, the best teacher.
Everyone's water is different, with different PPMs to start, so you have to use common sense. Start light, and gradually increase. If they look pale, give more.

 

[DoDad]

Unfortunately if you want to run DWC successfully you have to monitor ppm, and ph at least until you get it to where you know what its doing.

Thanks for taking the time to do my homework for me.

It's the size of the plants won't take 1 tsp per gallon. I have had one of those exact same rooted clones in my tent but not in DWC. My tent pots are 75% perlite/25% Vermiculite hempy buckets and I had the exact same tip burn at 1 tsp per in the hempy pots as the DWC.

I don't think it's DWC vs hempy issue. Maybe I could get away with 1 tsp in soil. It's just that 1 tsp per gallon is still too strong for rooted clones in either my DWC or my hempy pots.

These plants that are showing signs of tip burn are good genetics BTW. It's one of the afghan strains from Herbies. The clones came from a mother that is showing preflowers in my tent. Reviews on the stain have been positive and it's been my experience as well. In other words, I don't think it's the strain but as in all things I could be totally wrong.

 

[DoDad]

Err on the side of caution. I just use the little measuring spoon that comes with it. Works for me.
Did you say this was your first grow, or did I imagine that?
If you really want K.I.S.S., Hempys are as simple as it gets.
Deep water culture probably not the best for beginner, but if you have the gear, you will learn by trial and error, the best teacher.
Everyone's water is different, with different PPMs to start, so you have to use common sense. Start light, and gradually increase. If they look pale, give more.

Yes, VERY first grow. I'm in perlite/verm hempys now. I put those clones in a DWC because I didn't have room in my tent and wanted to run the same nutes.

I wanted to practice taking clones. They rooted, then I didn't know what to do with them, so I put them in a DWC.

I use the spoon that came with MB too. 1 tsp per and test PH with the GH PH test drops which turns my test water to urine yellow. Close enough for the girls I date. Easy peasy, is good.

 

[sidewing]

sometimes yellowing of tips can be a deficiency and not nutrient burn, caused by too much of one nutrient blocking the uptake of another. but doesn't matter cuz there's no variation running maxibloom. you either run less or more.

just remember a little tip yellowing is ok, if most of your plant looks healthy, you're fine. if you start having other major issues going on, then its time to troubleshoot.
but at this point i think you're fine. stop worrying.
just like the human body, cells die off and are replaced. leaves will die, some will have issues, as long as your plant and new growth is healthy, and 90% of the plant is healthy, then all is fine.

remember, you're want to keep it simple, so stop deep inspecting every little leaf on your plants. because you're using a nutrient that is a one part powder, even if you had a minor problem, the only thing you can do is use more or less of everything equally.

like was said, since you don't want to monitor ppm's daily, if it's going pale or yellow, give more, if things are looking burned and scorched, use less.

if you wanted to get more technical, adjust ph to promote uptake of certain elements. that's about the only aspect you CAN control to vary what's available to your plants, just remember everything works on a balance. having more of something can block something else. read the below picture to help get an understanding of the relationship all the elements have with one another.

 

[sidewing]

here's another good picture for you

 

[DoDad]

here's another good picture for you

Thanks for all of that. I'll refer back as things go south.

My new growth looks fine even in the DWC. Maybe it was just those first few weeks and from now on it won't be too much at 600 PPM if that was even the cause.

They don't look dead, which is a huge plus.