The History of Herms

[Sam_Skunkman]

Yup was referring to what people eat,, rather then the wild ones meant to say
Do you not believe from selfing or feminized seeds will indeed over some time cause more issues lets face it we are seeing more mutant, more hermies , and more nanners in feminized strain varieties

People do not often self plants on a single plant level. Yes that will cause more intersex to express if the plants has those genes. Feminizing seeds does not do this. Unless the plants used in the process are intersex to start with. It is the intersex genes not the STS that causes it.

Sometimes playing god can have its consequences ,,
Truthfully speaking its a lazy mans way to grow or its ideal for the inexperienced grower but again who are you really cheating but your self the knowledge of actual growing understanding sexing knowing what to look for bringing you to new levels of experience right ????

If you say so I do not believe this.


just like cheating in high school might be great at the time ,, but when you really need that knowledge... in real life,,you will not have it .. and you cheated your self out ..

although i think selfing can be beneficial for breeders or for someone that has the last strain of its kind in existence. but i think i you do not add new genes into it after time it will start to die off
Evolution everything needs to change same thing applies for plants when you take away that from the equation its just a matter of time when a new strain of bacteria , insect will destroy it cause plant cannot adabt cause in a sense you froze it and took away that availability ..

I understand how you feel but I do not agree at all.

All fem seed breeders should put a guarantee on there product that it will not herm or produce nanners cause am pretty confident i can make all fem seeds on the market hermie run temps in the 90's as cold as near freezing lights on for a week off for a week and so on root bind them there hermie guarnteed

That will only make the plants that have genes that allow intersex expression when exposed to environmental stress. That does not work with all, all female plants, believe me. If you stress test them before you transform them and only use the plants that do not make male flowers you can be pretty safe they will not make intersex. You need to do this with both the female used and the female transformed to male used.

and like i said have tried many reg seed runs pure power plant , Afghanistan, bubble gum M39, northern lights and i be dammed if i could ever get them to hermie and trust me i tried

I have made STS treated plants for longer then anyone, decades ago, and what you say is not true at all. I never made any to sell, I used them in breeding programs to develop single Cannabinoid varieties, it worked great. But I have made hundreds or thousands and you have no idea of what you speak. The only reason is if the all female seeds parents were intersex, or if any regular male X female cross if the parents are intersex they will have the same incidence of intersex. Just avoid using intersex, regardless of how made, that is what I suggest, and screening any plants to be used for breeeding to see if they are intersex before using them.

Here is a test 10 fem beans vs 10 reg beans which would you bet to hermie first Anyone ???

I would use at least 100 of each in any "test", and I never see intersex in my all female seeds I make for breeding reasons. I have grown thousands. I did screen all the parents before using them for seed production, and as I say I never sold one.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

When the genes of two plants meet, the chromosomes all get thrown into a proverbial bag, shaken well, and thrown out in different combination.
The resulting progeny show characteristics of both plants in various ways.
Often times when recombining two plants that are polar opposites of one another, ie...a short season indica and a long flowering sativa, the resulting progeny will often show a good high degree of hybrid vigor and health.

On the other hand, if we breed two sibling plants, or plants of the same strain, the resulting progeny are far less diverse. A continuation of generation of a cross of similar genetics can eventually run into a phenomenon of inbreeding depression. The genetic material available (or lack of) for each subsequent breeding can lead the plant to less vigor and sometimes mutations that were once latent, can now show themselves.

As I have said before few people self a single plant to make all female seeds, most use two different varieties to make all female seeds. If you do self a plant it can lead to loss of vigor and inbreeding depression, that is why few do it.

When we force a female to pollinate herself, she has a stand of DNA that contains her genes, which is bred to an identical strand of genes. If we think about it, we have cut the available genetic material in half when we self a female. And the result can often times lead to the inbreeding depression I mentioned.

Of course it changes the genes
Yes, the two genetic maps of a forced female and herself are identical, but they get shaken up in the proverbial bag I mentioned, and the result can be close to the original but not always. It will depend on how the shake out takes.
Thing is, we have shorted ourself genetic material when we create an S1 and luck must be with us if we are to hope to get seeds that will be identical to the mother and donor.

Selfing any modern multi-poly hybrid will not make seeds that same as the parent. Think about what happens. What ever the hybrid was is now an F2 and not the same as the F1 if it was an F1.

And we will still need to do a grow and selection of the progeny to find the ones that shook out similar to the moms. We simply can't trust that S1 seeds will result in the same plant. Chances are there that it can, but also that it won't.

Just avoid using S1 seeds, use all female that are not selfed, and are screened for intersex before being used to breed with. You should do the same with all male or female plants to be used for breeding normal dioecious seeds.
-Sams

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

x

No it does not happen regardless your crossing over half of the genetic make up of the plant there for in time possibly few generations with out new genes added the plant will lose it vigor more or less die out tell me you know anyone with fem seeded plant clone after clone lets say 10 years old ??? i would like to see a 10 year old fem plant

Is 20 years ok? Vigorous as hell. From all female seed not selfed, I made it.
-SamS




Genetically and according to current knowledge it is impossible to get a true male from a female by selfing. There is no way an Y chromosome can just pop out of an X one.
Though, it could be a fully sex reversed female which in turn may be inherited; the offspring will be genetically female. Experiments done with hemp suggest that most of the offspring will be highly hermaphroditic or fully sex reversed. It seems very unlikely that the offspring segregates into some normal females and some 'fully reversed females' but no or nearly no 'normal' hermaphrodites in a way that people might think of a normal sex distribution involving an Y allosome.

Logically speaking, it's either an extreme form of hermaphroditism or more likely stray pollen. Cannabis pollen is able to travel very long distances and get into a home or grow cabinet through tiny cracks or on your cloths. There's as good as never a 'not possible'.
__________________

 

[The English Cut]

Here is a test 10 fem beans vs 10 reg beans which would you bet to hermie first Anyone ???

I did a grow this winter/spring, fairly stressy conditions, cold, increasing photoperiod during flower. 21 reg seeds of various strains and 13 fem seeds of various strains.

Of the 21 reg seeds, 18 plants showed intersex traits to a degree, some completely freaked out while others just showed a few late nanners.

Of the 13 fem seeds, 2 plants had one very late nanner each. The rest were solid as a rock.

18:2 a pretty good ratio in my opinion. You can draw your own conclusions from that, I've drawn mine. Properly produced fem seeds don't hermie any more than reg seeds, sometimes less. There's too much ignorance and misinformation regarding these things.

 

[DrFever]

Some Quotes from the ale mighty internet

Okay so, AFTER i went and bought my seeds, (kushberry) from DNA genetics, i have heard alot about feminized seeds going hermie, so i just tried to hope for the best and not stress them or anything.

And of course, walk into my garden today and do an inspection and of course, at least two of my plants are turning hermie.. this fucking sucks.

It shouldnt be from stress, becaue they havent moved since they hit the screen,

Lights off temps are at 65 and lights on are 75..

Now, im going to aviod feminized seeds for next time, glad i didnt clone these guys..

Was it the seeds that more than likley went hermie? instead of somethign that i have done??
thanks blades.


Another won

I have just pulled two out of my three beautiful Thai plants! It hurt me soo bad, I have ten cheese females and 8 OG master kush females but it was the seeds I got for free from gypsy nivana seed bank, they were Sam the skunkmans Thai haze x skunk #1 and 3 out of 5 popped and I've been enthusiastically waitng to smoke that shit! I love pure sativa and well anyways two are male and pulled them but I still have 1 left but its more skunky of a pheno its shorter and wider leafed but anyways, I know there are certain chemicals you could use to change the sex and I'd like some1 to explain the process to me because seriously I don't ever wanna chop another beautiful plant like that again!!

Yet Another one

My first hydro grow has turned banana shaped. I have 25 ******s 'Madonna' in the 4th week of bloom and most have most have turned hermie. I'm pretty sickened. :wall: It was a light leak that caused it Im sure, or possibly genetics or shock.

I pulled off 1 developed nana, but there are loads more balls, mostly mixed in with calyx's. I'm almost 100% sure they are hermie, but I'll leave them for a while to be certain.

Now for the decision whether to keep them or not. There is only 5 or 6 weeks left and is it worth the electricity and nutes to leave them finish flowering? I'll be vaping the bud so seeds shouldnt be too much of a problem.

Leave them finish their thing and vape the hermies?

Or

Send them to the compost heap right away.

 

[DrFever]

And one of my best finds

Greetings

I grew my own personal for many years, starting in 1984-1998.

Always from seed. (only grew cuts 2 times)

In all those years of growing, I saw males

I saw Hermaphrodites.

Until my first grow in over 15 plus years. had I EVER laid an eye upon a "nanner"

A "nanner?" you ask? Mhhm, Same here. About week 4 of flower, I started noticing what appeared to me, to be "yellow flowers"

After thorough scrutiny, I deduced that this anomaly wasn't a male pod sack/hermaphrodite ad I'd seen those many times in the past. I honestly had no idea what they were.

The plant in question was an 8 ft X 6 ft Romulan/og cross (Seeds given from a friend.)

Massive girl with many shoots and tops growing.

These "yellow flowers" concerned me and I asked around and no one knew what I was referring to. Eventually it was decided I had a "hermie" on my hands and was told to "pluck" all the "pollen sacks".even thoughI saw no visable "pollen sacks" On my massive girl..just weird BRIGHT yellow flowery "bud" looking anomalies.

When the ladies awoke, I I armed myself with tweezers, and proceed on to the endeavor to pluck away this nemesis.

As I said, she was big...TALL..WIDE. (no this post hasn't spontaneously morphed it a hip hop song ) And after 3 hours and sweat dripping through my t-shirt, I realized this task was an impossible hack.

Having seen male pollen sacks often enough to KNOW the look of them out of my peripheral vision...something to me just wasn't resonating.

I called my buddy up and informed him of the impossible extraction. She was just too huge and getting to her canopy was proving rather difficult for such delicate operation. So It was then decided to observe them, making sure the moment I noticed any signs of sacks (or pollen )to rid her of it immediately.

The next day I searched the web. Reading on these strange things, quickly discovering that what I had was being referred to as a "nanner" by the majority of online posters. The problem was, they were referring to them as "hermies"

Having had multiple hermies over the years, my alarm bells were ringing in my head. I knew that I wasn't experiencing hermaphroditism at all. But was indeed manifesting these strange banana shaped "pods". I stumbled onto a forum where two guys were discussing the issue.

Eventually the thread solved the mystery and I knew exactly what I had any what to "look for" according to the suggestions from people posting on the thread.

From what I gather through my days worth of reading..The "nanner" is not a male pollen sack , nor a hermie at all. Rather the nanner if the dying females response to the need to propagate -producing entirely feminized pollen, thus guaranteeing any seeds developed would in turn be a viable female.

So the dilemma I faced at this point was...nanners are EVERYWHERE and have "more than likely" pollinated herself at some point. So I needed to chose: harvest early and potentially have a bunch of "premie" seeds to deal with. or wait approx. two wks for the seeds to mature.

I chose the latter...

Now therein lies the motive for this thread...To inform people to NOT do what i did.

I waited the two weeks. But after harvest, I began to realize what exactly I was allowing to transpire. The nanners took over the buds like a virus. In each pod where a seed WOULD normally grow..which i THOUGHT was occurring in that little mj womb...was not at all developing the "feminized" seed that I'd imagined.

On the contrary, What I discovered inside those little sacks, were NOTHING BUT Drying Yellow nanner pods. The buds were LITERALLY overtaken by them. Each day I was nearing my "2 week seed maturity date" I was merely allowing the plant to fill herself with these disgusting little ugly dried yellowish "flower pedals"

Trimming these down was the worst feeling I've EVER had in my life trimming down a harvest. To me thats one of the most enjoyable aspects of the growing process. Holding the fruit in your palms, analyzing its density, smelling the aromas and enjoying the beautyy of a fully ripe and ready top.

I was swiftly Realizing the potency and the quality and taste of what was looking to be a rather potent and appealing crop, had just decreased significantly. "diggin into each individual pod only to discover these ugly little yellow looking "parasites" proved to be a daunting task. All the buds were FILLED with them.

over taking the bud itself. When dried, the buds shrinkage allows the little pointy buggers to rear there ugly heads out of the pods and into the light of day.

In hindsight the move I should have made was to harvest at the time I allowed the "seeds" to develop..Which btw, i had to handle every single bud and pick through them in such detail to extract as many nanners as i could see..Not a SINGLE seed had come of it yet.

Perhaps not all "plants that turn.."nanner" grow them in such massive numbers, but all I was doing was allowing them to "overthrow" the buds with harse tasting, nasty yellow looking leaches.

I noticed significant shrinkage in the buds a day or two before I opted to harvest. as well It seemed as though the plant went from frosty lime green to a darkened dull looking diseased female flower.

Point is...the plant does not or has not "switched" at this point (or at any point) into a male/hermie, etc. It is entirely female..and the nanner pollen "husks" as I've grown SO "fond" of referring to them ....

From my observations the nanner pollen sacks never reached the mature enough level to pollinate...no evidence of a single seed thus far in the entire 8 oz yield..which diminished down to maybe two and a half oz's of hacked to death, sparse and stemmy budzs that taste haylike and look the same. .

My advice if u see nanners? scrap the crop, or harvest IMMEDIATELY and hope u have SOME smokable bud thats unaffected by the potential infestation of these nasty crop ruining beasts!

 

[Dkgrower]

in all my travels i found hermafodites in most natural populations of cannabis and often it can be hard to find true females in some regions of the himalaya, where most plants are dirty transvestites..

 

[Infinitesimal]

the problem is you guys aren't all wrong, you are half right in that... with the current market you may have to deal with more herms in fem seed stock especially in the past.

but are you familiar with the concept of a perfect storm? whereby many seemingly happenstance events coincide to create predetermined circumstances for a phenomena to occur.

so when you combine factors such as; greed, ignorance of botany and genetics, shady people, a growing market place, ignorant consumers and a desire to cash in and profit off it all with the least input and the largest outcome...

what you end up with is bunch of poorly selected and poorly worked fem varieties... basically people find plants they like or think others will like from small populations then reverse it without doing proper stress tests on a proper amount of individuals to ensure no intersex... and so that is what you experience.

so the hermi phenomena has much more to do with prohibition and poor/greedy breeding practices from people who didnt invest their mind into the subject and just want to cash in on trends... than it does the use of such a benign substance such as silver

 

[Infinitesimal]

I would really like to see some photo documented plants, that YOU have actually created. The practicality aspect of plant breeding seems to be lost in your translation, or is that also a by product of chemical inducement, lost genetics

first I didnt CREATE any cannabis, cannabis existed and was bred long before me... I can't take credit for the varieties I have made as the genetics already existed all I have done was see recombinant potential in certain varieties and have made simple crosses at this point.

others seem to consider them desirable, as I consider them valuable beyond paper currency...

I dont want to post a bunch pics of my work in here though PM me if you want me to send you some links to different threads around the site.

 

[Infinitesimal]

"snake oil",
hmmm, fitting name, makes me wonder what you are trying to sell here

humility for weakness ay?

lol,reluctant no, this is about herms not my breeding projects and I dont care to get into a battle of ego's (it looks foolish to onlookers)... my pictures are out there enough already... and try as you might, you are not going to get a rise out of me.

so if that is your intention you might as well find someone else.

I agree it is healthy to hear opposing views, though perspective and perception help a lot... often things are less oppossed than they may seem and its the attatchment to a specific perspective (a belief) that creates the illusion of opposition through imbalanced thought.

BTW, I have never made a fem cross... yet, all my crosses have been using males... just to illustrate that there is no conflict of intrest in my views on the subject.

have a good one,
-Infinitesimal

 

[Infinitesimal]

lol, try reading that again, with perspective and perception... you dont do so well with metaphors do you.

have anymore info on the origins, history or propegation of the hermi genetic traits?

 

[DrFever]

hermies are detrimental to quality genetics. For decades,(possibly centuries,) breeders have avoided and selectively bred to get away from them. Only recently with the femminised craze, have hermies became a desirable trait.
Hermies procreate hermies.
If you allow high quality mj to go ferral, grow wild, with absolutely no intervention, selection from man, it will revert to hemp. Why?.. because the male genetics will be dominated by "early" flowering males and/or "hermaphrodite".
The respected and reputable breeders of today, that have brought us the highest quality mj ever in recorded history, know this and have selected for it.
It is also why those same reputable breeders, recommend selecting late flowering males for your x's. Mny believe that the secret to inproving the 'quality' of drug grade mj. lies in the recessive traits of the late flowering males.

 

[DrFever]

And It matters little if there were 1 seed or ten thousand seeds. They ARE embellished with the hermie gene, characteristic, trait.....and will only further the propensity of ALL offspring to hermie.
These are xctly the type of scenarios that "I" believe has brought about the much higher ratio of hermaphrodite plants in todays grows.
Unsuspecting or uninformed growers"assuming" that seeds are seeds, and because they were found in 'decent' bag of weed, or came off of a plant that was good smoke, that they are "good" seeds.
Never considering the poison genetics involved.

If you own a Show quality, "Grand Champion" Labrador retriever, do you allow it to be bred to the alley running, biscuit stealing, egg sucking, one nutted, mongrel that runs the neighborhood ?..
Or do you "selectively" search out another truely fine Labrador specimen, with desirable characteristics to breed to?

 

[Infinitesimal]

If you think it is weakness your just ignorant.
Sell? Dont make me laugh. Tipz

theres a saying around here, maybe you have heard it.

Don't let your mouth overload your ass!

Tipz ..... I can back up anything i say without reluctance.

ok then, you claim that STS and colloidal silver act as a mutagen to the genotype and causes a herm expression... care to back that up with some evidence? can you site a published paper or article in a science journal?

metaphor - you are selling a rhetoric with your statements, a false one at that.

Out of humilty I didnt want to post several pages of the plants I have bred, you take that as reluctance... then call me ignorant. LOL, too funny.

 

[DrFever]

One has to ask in the organic certified world is STS or colloidal silver organic certified ???? and the answer is wait ......... wait for it...................NOPE its not there for like you say its a moot point lol Feminized seeds i believe cannot be used on organic farms when organic MJ does get certified that is only way i guess you can do it if its stressed induced hermies with out any chemicals used
I think once MJ is certfied that is going to hit the fem craze by storm .. but like any other thing get in get off and get out

i`m not an expert by any streatch of the imagination but the way i see it is this... hermies are a natural phenominon. or they used to be. now with all the seed bank capitalistic dogs manipulateing the seeds to be (feminized) for the sake of a quick buck is causing what used to be an oddity to be common place. i been growing off an on since the early 70`s and till this past year i never seen one. how ever till this last year i didnt do indoor grows either. maybe the intinsity of the mh light @24/7 has some effect on it too. i dont know. the point i`m trying to make is nature has allowed hermies prolly from the beginning of time so i cant say it is all bad. i do however think that purposly creating hermies via chemicals is totally wrong. boycot all them feminized seeds. watch yer crops an pull the males and we`ll all be better off. wow started out as 2 cents an turned into a quarter sorry
I agree. "hermis are a natural phenom'".. but not a "desirable" phenom'.. They poison your sensi' with undesirable and potentialy harmfull(to the gene pool) seeds.
I don't know how many times I have typed this here, but once again..
"If drug quality mj is left to go feral, within a few generations it will revert to hemp. Why?.. becuse the paternal side of the gene pool will be dominated by hermies and/or earliest flowering males."
For decades, if not centuries, the true "breeders" that have brought us the high thc, quality pot of today, have concienciously bred "away" from the hermie tendency. Most feel/believe that the secret to improving thc production and higher quality herb, lies in the 'recessive' traits of late flowering males. (it's been working)
Hermies have always been around, but have also been "selectively" culled, up untill the recent "femminisation" craze. "I" believe that THAT is at least, patially to blame for the recent influx of more hermies.. just "M.O."

 

[DrFever]

CURIOUS what is tipzz lol like tip back a beer or shot ?? slang or cheers ?? lol

 

[Infinitesimal]

Tipz ..... I can back up anything i say without reluctance.

ok then, you claim that STS and colloidal silver act as a mutagen to the genotype and causes a herm expression... care to back that up with some evidence? can you site a published paper or article in a science journal?
.

Ok Mr. Humility:

I'll post up Two identifiable pictures of F1 Hybrids that I have created for every one you can muster, wouldnt that be fair?
And not a single one will have been chemically induced!

Oh, and since you like to post in reefs thread heres a couple of pics u might like. And just for the record you are in my thread and if you don't like it, dont let the door hit you in the ass on your way out!


[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=61820&pictureid=1458125&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=61820&pictureid=1458123&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

how about you stay on point in YOUR thread, since you own it LOL, and substantiate your claims...

you are no competition, and for the readers sake I don't wish to side track YOUR thread and be dragged into such just to satisfy your insecure ego.

start a thread called- varieties bred by infinitesimal, and I will go there and post pictures of my stuff maybe others will too... that would be on topic... I really dont know why you want to compare your stuff with mine and why you got on the subject of my breeding practices?

to try and get back on subject...

from what I have garnered, I am willing to speculate:

My hypothesis based on what I understand is,

That, it will be discovered if its not already known by a few... the causes for intersex can be directly related to specific QTL.....

In the case of genetic intersex it will be the result of SNP's found within allels on the sex chromosomes...

And, in the case of environemtally triggered aka stress induced intersex it is the function of eSNP's in alleles within close proximity to, upstream or downstream of, alleles which code for hormone synthesis such as ethylene. When these eSNP's are active they modulate the coding and subsequent expressions of nearby alleles which code for protiens. So when plants inherit these eSNP's they are then sensetive to certain environmental fluctuations and are predisposed to react by herming via the change in expression from the activation of the eSNP.

___________________________________

snakeoil,

if you really want to see my pics start that thread , or go look for them, they're in my albums and in threads, you can use the search function... there are very few buds in my albums i didnt breed... if you want to keep going on about mine vs yours fine, you can troll me out of your own thread.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

hermies are detrimental to quality genetics. For decades,(possibly centuries,) breeders have avoided and selectively bred to get away from them. Only recently with the femminised craze, have hermies became a desirable trait.
Hermies procreate hermies.
If you allow high quality mj to go ferral, grow wild, with absolutely no intervention, selection from man, it will revert to hemp.

Actually hemp is bred by man or selected by man for traits that are required for good hemp, be it fiber or seeds or hurds as the product. Same as drug Cannabis is selected by man.
If mj is allowed to go feral it does not become hemp, if it was hemp it loses traits hemp breeders have conserved in the population, if it is drug, it will lose traits conserved by drug Cannabis breeders.

Why?.. because the male genetics will be dominated by "early" flowering males and/or "hermaphrodite".
The respected and reputable breeders of today, that have brought us the highest quality mj ever in recorded history, know this and have selected for it.
It is also why those same reputable breeders, recommend selecting late flowering males for your x's. Mny believe that the secret to inproving the 'quality' of drug grade mj. lies in the recessive traits of the late flowering males.

Early or late I select for quality and resistance, there is no secret recessive traits in late flowering males, try using them and trialing the progeny, or transforming the male to female to judge what it can give to progeny.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

And It matters little if there were 1 seed or ten thousand seeds. They ARE embellished with the hermie gene, characteristic, trait.....and will only further the propensity of ALL offspring to hermie.

It is not so hard to grow out an intersex population and select the least intersexed, do this for 5 generations and the incidence of intersex is greatly reduced, use large plant numbers to assist with the work.

These are xctly the type of scenarios that "I" believe has brought about the much higher ratio of hermaphrodite plants in todays grows.
Unsuspecting or uninformed growers"assuming" that seeds are seeds, and because they were found in 'decent' bag of weed, or came off of a plant that was good smoke, that they are "good" seeds.
Never considering the poison genetics involved.

If you own a Show quality, "Grand Champion" Labrador retriever, do you allow it to be bred to the alley running, biscuit stealing, egg sucking, one nutted, mongrel that runs the neighborhood ?..
Or do you "selectively" search out another truely fine Labrador specimen, with desirable characteristics to breed to?

Most of the Cannabis and the Cannabis seeds are made by unconscious Cannabis growers that do not remove males or intersex plants, I am talking worldwide, not under lights where few seeds are made compared to the real world under the sun.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

One has to ask in the organic certified world is STS or colloidal silver organic certified ???? and the answer is wait ......... wait for it...................NOPE its not there for like you say its a moot point lol Feminized seeds i believe cannot be used on organic farms when organic MJ does get certified that is only way i guess you can do it if its stressed induced hermies with out any chemicals used
I think once MJ is certfied that is going to hit the fem craze by storm .. but like any other thing get in get off and get out

Yes an all female seed STS created female clone can be grown organically and certified as organic, I do agree you are not an expert.

i`m not an expert by any streatch of the imagination but the way i see it is this... hermies are a natural phenominon. or they used to be. now with all the seed bank capitalistic dogs manipulateing the seeds to be (feminized) for the sake of a quick buck is causing what used to be an oddity to be common place. i been growing off an on since the early 70`s and till this past year i never seen one. how ever till this last year i didnt do indoor grows either. maybe the intinsity of the mh light @24/7 has some effect on it too. i dont know. the point i`m trying to make is nature has allowed hermies prolly from the beginning of time so i cant say it is all bad. i do however think that purposly creating hermies via chemicals is totally wrong. boycot all them feminized seeds. watch yer crops an pull the males and we`ll all be better off. wow started out as 2 cents an turned into a quarter sorry

STS does not create hermies, (intersex) it changes the sex expression temporarily not the genes, do you understand this?

I agree. "hermis are a natural phenom'".. but not a "desirable" phenom'.. They poison your sensi' with undesirable and potentialy harmfull(to the gene pool) seeds.

Hermis, (intersex) are not a natural phenomenon, they are from the hand of man, often from seedless sinsemilla production, think about it. If you grow Sinsemilla by the hectare and only have a few seeds in the crop where did they come from? Often they are from the few intersex flowers that made pollen. If the farmer uses any of the seeds, the incidence of intersex increases, Do this for years and years and you get a population like Thai where almost all have intersex genes.
Or think the reverse, Monoecious varieties like the French use for hemp. They must be maintained by man or they revert to Dioecious, that is the natural state of Cannabis.

I don't know how many times I have typed this here, but once again..
"If drug quality mj is left to go feral, within a few generations it will revert to hemp.

Not true, have you ever even grown hemp? I have grown hundreds of different hemp varieties.
-SamS

Why?.. becuse the paternal side of the gene pool will be dominated by hermies and/or earliest flowering males."
For decades, if not centuries, the true "breeders" that have brought us the high thc, quality pot of today, have concienciously bred "away" from the hermie tendency. Most feel/believe that the secret to improving thc production and higher quality herb, lies in the 'recessive' traits of late flowering males. (it's been working)
Hermies have always been around, but have also been "selectively" culled, up untill the recent "femminisation" craze. "I" believe that THAT is at least, patially to blame for the recent influx of more hermies.. just "M.O."

So just pick your latest male and instant quality strains?
I wonder why I have been GC'ing the offspring, and doing big trials of progeny and transforming my unknown males to female to know what they can contribute to a hybrid?
-SamS