The History of Herms

[Sam_Skunkman]

Makes sense to me! I have been looking for the genetic basis for years, I would like markers like they have for males and females, or at least markers for the genetic intersex. It would be nice to also find environemtally triggered aka stress induced intersex it is the function of eSNP's in alleles within close proximity to, upstream or downstream of, alleles which code for hormone synthesis such as ethylene.
-SamS

how about you stay on point in YOUR thread, since you own it LOL, and substantiate your claims...

you are no competition, and for the readers sake I don't wish to side track YOUR thread and be dragged into such just to satisfy your insecure ego.

start a thread called- varieties bred by infinitesimal, and I will go there and post pictures of my stuff maybe others will too... that would be on topic... I really dont know why you want to compare your stuff with mine and why you got on the subject of my breeding practices?

to try and get back on subject...

from what I have garnered, I am willing to speculate:

My hypothesis based on what I understand is,

That, it will be discovered if its not already known by a few... the causes for intersex can be directly related to specific QTL.....

In the case of genetic intersex it will be the result of SNP's found within allels on the sex chromosomes...

And, in the case of environemtally triggered aka stress induced intersex it is the function of eSNP's in alleles within close proximity to, upstream or downstream of, alleles which code for hormone synthesis such as ethylene. When these eSNP's are active they modulate the coding and subsequent expressions of nearby alleles which code for protiens. So when plants inherit these eSNP's they are then sensetive to certain environmental fluctuations and are predisposed to react by herming via the change in expression from the activation of the eSNP.

___________________________________

snakeoil,

if you really want to see my pics start that thread , or go look for them, they're in my albums and in threads, you can use the search function... there are very few buds in my albums i didnt breed... if you want to keep going on about mine vs yours fine, you can troll me out of your own thread.

 

[Infinitesimal]

So just pick your latest male and instant quality strains?
I wonder why I have been GC'ing the offspring, and doing big trials of progeny and transforming my unknown males to female to know what they can contribute to a hybrid?
-SamS

according to subcool, yes, and it should also have the right leaf pattern too...

you know, if it has the same plant structure and leaf as the desired mother plant, that you are passing on the right genes

-Sarcasm

 

[Infinitesimal]

Makes sense to me! I have been looking for the genetic basis for years, I would like markers like they have for males and females, or at least markers for the genetic intersex. It would be nice to also find environemtally triggered aka stress induced intersex it is the function of eSNP's in alleles within close proximity to, upstream or downstream of, alleles which code for hormone synthesis such as ethylene.
-SamS

thanks!

I can't say I would have been able to make sense of it myself without info and help from you and others.

do you think this is something phylos will be able to uncover?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I sure hope so!!!
Marker tests for genetic or stress induced intersex would help all Cannabis breeders, if they can be found. A few decades of using these tests would change the face of Cannabis, as few intersexed would be used anymore as parents, or if you see something you like in a variety with intersex problems grow a few thousand and find one without intersex markers and use that one.
I see the problem as two fold, one is the use of intersex parents, the second is the small plant numbers used in breeding, it allows for few choices and forces you to use the best of just a few plants, regardless if intersex or not. Why would anyone pick an intersex parent if they had another similar parent of the same variety without the problems of intersex? They don't because of the small numbers grown to select the parents from.
Regardless of what happens the real truth is that unconscious growers make most of the Cannabis seeds in the world, from Cambodia to Africa, to the rest of the world, most Cannabis is seeded and a lot more seeds are produced then the less then 100 million that are in the Cannabis drug seed biz, that is only two tons of seed or less, a very small part of the worlds annual Cannabis seed production. Hemp seed is much more and drug variety seed production is way way higher in the 3rd world by a factor of thousands if not more.
-SamS

thanks!

I can't say I would have been able to make sense of it myself without info and help from you and others.

do you think this is something phylos will be able to uncover?

 

[symbiote420]

Turning males into females sounds like a good practice/theory on paper but if we still can't tell what the female will actually pass along from smoking her until we've grown the progeny..... what changes the rule smoking a male?
Herms are on the rise now more than ever these days because every Tom, Dick, and Harry is claiming themselves breeders just trying to cash in on the seed game, not many are willing to put in the real work to create something worthwhile it's all about feminizing or meshing clone only A with the first male they find in a pack of beans or bagseeds. Unknowing and ignorant consumers + greed fuels the industry..... and if you think genetics are getting messy wait till the Monsanto's of the world get fully into the seed game.

 

[DrFever]

Here Sam good video for you, Buy chance are you European ?? lol
lets see what some well known breeders actually say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcE1RQF1XkQ

like when he says this is our scene we grow big fat ass plants and drive around with 6 pounds in our car not fucking 5 grams hahaha

 

[Infinitesimal]

Here Sam good video for you, Buy chance are you European ?? lol
lets see what some well known breeders actually say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcE1RQF1XkQ

like when he says this is our scene we grow big fat ass plants and drive around with 6 pounds in our car not fucking 5 grams hahaha

LOL, are you serious?

I've listened to that panel a few times and none of them know what they are talking about... DJ, at least puts emphasis on using progeny testing to select progenitors.

2:45 - miss jill selects Subs spacedude male at foot tall in veg... LOL

 

[Infinitesimal]

I sure hope so!!!
Marker tests for genetic or stress induced intersex would help all Cannabis breeders, if they can be found. A few decades of using these tests would change the face of Cannabis, as few intersexed would be used anymore as parents, or if you see something you like in a variety with intersex problems grow a few thousand and find one without intersex markers and use that one.
I see the problem as two fold, one is the use of intersex parents, the second is the small plant numbers used in breeding, it allows for few choices and forces you to use the best of just a few plants, regardless if intersex or not. Why would anyone pick an intersex parent if they had another similar parent of the same variety without the problems of intersex? They don't because of the small numbers grown to select the parents from.
Regardless of what happens the real truth is that unconscious growers make most of the Cannabis seeds in the world, from Cambodia to Africa, to the rest of the world, most Cannabis is seeded and a lot more seeds are produced then the less then 100 million that are in the Cannabis drug seed biz, that is only two tons of seed or less, a very small part of the worlds annual Cannabis seed production. Hemp seed is much more and drug variety seed production is way way higher in the 3rd world by a factor of thousands if not more.
-SamS

yeah people massively underestimate the value of large populations and assume they can do just as good with 5 seeds or something like that, lol.

I always think in terms of scale and corresponding statistics and probabilities, the best from 100 seeds is going to be better than the best from 10 seeds... and exponentially better from 1,000 seeds or 10,000 or 100,000... and as you know on that scale proper testing is inconceivable without marker assisted selection.

so what can be done about herms in the third world and traditional cultures?

 

[The English Cut]

Fascinating stuff, thanks Infinitesimal and Sam, not only are we learning about plant genetics (which tbh is a bit over my head, but I'm open to it), but I think If we read between the lines, there are important lessons on human evolution in this thread too.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Watched it.

I have no idea if these are good breeders or not. Well known maybe, good breeders I have my doubts.

Buy I did start the worlds fist Cannabis seed company Sacred Seeds, and am a pretty well known breeder for what it is worth.

I don't grow a lot of other peoples varieties, I don't have the time.

As for intersex, funny that you picked who you did, Blueberry is pretty well know for having intersex traits.

One call himself a seed maker not a breeder, I would agree.

I was not impressed at all by most of what they said, none used transforming males to female to judge what they could be sharing with progeny. This is a simple time saving method.

I do not want to speak ill of the dead, but what is, is. RIP Ringo, I am sure he helped many.

As for not picking vigorous males give me a break.

I mean testing terpenes in a male? Without transforming them to female? Why?

Shying away from frighteningly potent is not the way to get great Cannabis. As one of the speakers says he does.

F5 is all one will release, I find F1's are better, at least for vigor and resistance. I understand why they do this to bring their creation closer to their ideal, but it can also be done with the parents before you make the F1 and then use the f1. With better results.
When you repeatedly back cross you are inbreeding, which also fixes, incorporates, the negative traits as well as good.

As for picking non flowered plants by sticky-ness I can assure you non THC buds can be sticky and smell good.

As for breeding for resistance, they are just on glue.

Analyzing the DNA of young un-flowered plants and telling what will best for what in terms of Cannabinoid or terpene content before growing is just not true. Cannabinoid and terpene production are all controlled by multiple genes not just the ones that produce the compounds but also the sites of production. No one does this yet.

One "breeder" Likes Myrcene and CBN, I understand why, he does not like to get "high" he wants to be loaded. So be it.

They are talking about the hundreds of terpenes found in Cannabis, but only 140 have been ID'd, they are not correct.

They are against plants to big. Quality can come in big packages, if grown correctly. They are mostly growers from under light, where to much ferts are a bad thing, I like quality first and I like big plants that use all the ferts by maturation. And I grow in the ground organically.

They all like organic, I agree.

As for some of them not storing pollen, what can I say, I have many pollens that I have had frozen for 20 years and still viable.
I can pollinate 100 plants a day with a male and the next day another 100 in a room that is air tight with an exhaust fan that sucks the air from the room, sprays the exhaust with water to sprout and kill any pollen, and when done pollinating sprays down the room, floor, walls, plants before moving the plants to the big grow room for seed production. Zero problems.

One breeder says only one male in a room, why? just clean the room between males, you can use a different male every 48 hours. I had two rooms side by side, 100 plants a day, 7 days a week if I wanted to. Day one pollinate, 24 hours later spray with water, 24 hours later they are dry and ready to move. Repeat.

One say different temps make germinating seeds change sex.... I guess they mean from XX female to XY male? or XY male to a XX female? I have never seen it ever. If you work with small amounts of seed then you will sometimes get all female or all male, lots of seeds and the ratios for most varieties are 50/50 I know some are different but they still do not change their DNA from one sex to another because of temperatures, as far as I have seen. I have grown millions of plants, mostly my seeds, but lots of hemp also.

As for starting with bad to get good, which they all say avoid, yet that is what a real breeder does or can do.

We are never go to make a grade A herb, (the only A grade is landraces) was my favorite statement by one of them....

As for stabilizing a hybrid, are there any that are stabilized? Even Skunk #1 which is as stabilized as much as any 3 way hybrid I have seen, is not completely Homogenous is is very Homogenous as confirmed by a Cytology lab here in the Netherlands, even much more then any hemp variety or Cannabis variety ever tested by them. To be honest I did not really try and stabilize Skunk #1 what I did was grow out 30 NLDXWLD hybrids both mine and others, I had and selfed each of them on a population level and then grew out the F1's and compared that to the originals to see if they were the same, then made F2's from the F1's and grew them out to compare to the originals and the f1's, they all segregated into progeny like the original hybrids parents all except for one, Skunk #1 so I kept that and tossed the rest. At the time mid 70's I was only making and selling true breeding varieties, and did not want to make and sell hybrids that people would have to re-buy year after year, I was looking for varieties that people could buy once and then just make their own seeds, I really had no idea that other people would knock them off and start seed companies, but some people did knock off all my varieties, and start seed companies, such is life.

Clones are stable, not hybrid seed varieties, at least not most.

-SamS

Here Sam good video for you, Buy chance are you European ?? lol
lets see what some well known breeders actually say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcE1RQF1XkQ

like when he says this is our scene we grow big fat ass plants and drive around with 6 pounds in our car not fucking 5 grams hahaha

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

So if we had a DNA marker test for intersex, it would not be possible to clean up any intersex in the population? Why not?
Intersex is not caused by using STS, intersex is caused by using intersex parents to make seeds that are intersex, be it with STS or a normal seeds but made with intersexed male and female, both will have a high % of intersex in progeny. Don't use intersex plants to make seeds is the solution, be they male/female seeds or all female seeds.
STS is not the core problem, intersex plants being used to make seeds is the core problem. People have no idea if they are or are not intersex. But they use them anyway.
-SamS

The practical result of the irresponsible mutagenic inducement of herm prone genetics is like a pimple on the ass of the cannabis world that just keeps swelling and getting uglier by the day.

The lines of debate are clearly drawn, time will be the deciding factor, unfortunately the genetics will never be able to recover from it.

Five years from now the seed world will be swallowed up in a tidal wave of herms, and the proponents of this process will be at the bottom of the abyss.

To answer your pm question, infant tesimal..... no I am not mad, I would attribute my intermittent silence to the time difference and my need for sleep, and my inability to respond to pm's. best Tipz

 

[burningfire]

I was under the impression that most plants express the intersex gene..

If they didn't, you couldn't make feminized seeds using STS. I've heard a very small minority of plants will not produce male flowers after treatment.

what I'm growing at the moment has some intersex response, it's small and expressed itself because of a broken timer. of course there's a landrace hashplant and long flowering sativa. good luck finding plants that don't express intersex tendencies in these populations. obviously there are some plants that just throw hundreds of male flowers at the end of their flowering period but there's a whole spectrum of expression.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Maybe most do.
I don't think that a gene or genes for intersex, or a gene for stress induced intersex is really the same as STS induced masculinity that has a temporary expression, I think you can find intersex free parents to use for male/female seed production or all female seed production. One thing is for sure like begats like, use intersex and get intersex I know this is true, 20 years ago I tried using several Thais with a few male flowers to make all female seeds, it worked, but also gave all intersex progeny some bad, some a little bit. The opposite is also true that intersex free parents give intersex free plants as progeny, regardless if male/female seeds or all female seeds. The intersex Thais were still good herb, but I did not want that at all. So I used STS to make all females for a breeding project and used females that were as intersex free as we could find to transform and had zero problems with intersex progeny from the all female seeds.
I did this many times.
-SamS

 

[Limeygreen]

I really like this idea of reversing the males to female flowers. Since you are doing this the sts reverse males are safe to smoke correct? For something that sounds so simple and practical it seems like more people would do it, even if there was 10% benefit to doing this, how hard is it really to do? My guess is that it is more than 10% useful though.

All that said, when you reverse these male flowers to see what they can contribute to the cross, what exactly are you looking for in this process? Are you looking for the quality of the high, the flavours, resistance bud structure? That is if you don't mind to share your experience on this subject, I just don't think everyone has access to a gc much less the expertise to analyze the results and this would actually help out greatly to people willing to do this, even if it is just joe schmoe myself.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

x

I really like this idea of reversing the males to female flowers. Since you are doing this the sts reverse males are safe to smoke correct?

You do not transform a male to female with STS, read the thread. You use ethephon.
It is easy to do. Yes they are safe to smoke. Read the thread.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597&highlight=transforming+males+female+judge

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2672352&postcount=89

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2686301&postcount=106

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2686301&postcount=106

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2957945&postcount=135

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2961232&postcount=138

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2963617&postcount=144

If to lazy to read all the posts read the ones I have listed above.
-SamS



For something that sounds so simple and practical it seems like more people would do it, even if there was 10% benefit to doing this, how hard is it really to do? My guess is that it is more than 10% useful though.

All that said, when you reverse these male flowers to see what they can contribute to the cross, what exactly are you looking for in this process? Are you looking for the quality of the high, the flavours, resistance bud structure? That is if you don't mind to share your experience on this subject, I just don't think everyone has access to a gc much less the expertise to analyze the results and this would actually help out greatly to people willing to do this, even if it is just joe schmoe myself.

 

[Limeygreen]

My apologies, I didn't look through the forums like a stupid git, thank you for posting them for me.

 

[Mustafunk]

I agree with most stuff that others said. Also I think we first need to understand sex expression on plants (cannabis) and also the differences between hermaphrodites, intersex and monoecious plants. I’m sure this chart could clear everything up in an easy manner.

​

We could say then that cannabis plants only have two sexual phenotypes: dioecious or monoecious (those could be monoecious intersex and rarely, hermaphrodite monoecious). Hermaphrodite cannabis plants aren’t abundant, mostly monoecious and dioecious because all of them have imperfect flowers.

A true hermaphrodite should have both pistils and stamens in the same flower (from the same calyx at the same time!) and not several male/female flowers within different areas from the same bud or plant. But traditionally the hermaphrodite term was widely used for any female showing male flowers or a monoecious phenotype. Most are simply monoecious rather than true hermaphrodites or bisexual flowers. This is because one single bud is made of a bunch of many individual flowers just like a male bud is made from hundreds of tiny male flowers. Robert Clarke used the term monoecious phenotype already in his book Marijuana Botany when he referred to the “hermies”, so there is a big misunderstanding within the community on this issue.

Frankel and Galun say that females are XX and males XY, but Xm aleles do exist and determine male flowers within female inflorescence:

-Male plants with male flowers XY, XmY
-Male plants with female flowers: XmXm
-Female plants with female flowers: XX
-Plants with a variety of phenotypes, true females or monoecious females with female flowers: XmX

It’s also true that intersex genes were also present in ganja landrace cultivars, as opposed to the traditional hashplant landraces. That’s why Thai, Colombian, South East Asian, South Indian (to a less extent due to the extremely developed growing culture and techniques) or African genes are quite prone to have intersex flowers. The reason as Sam said, are probably the fact that because they were intended for ganja production (sinsemilla flowers only), males would be removed artificially by the hand of the men, so quite often the seeds were the result of intersex plants pollinations and those landrace populations would have an increased percentage of intersex genes in the absence of firm males to survive. I guess that’s why it’s always been so hard to get intersex-free Thai, Colombian or Zamal males and why it takes a big clean-up work from the breeders to work with those properly lol.

As for the proliferation of intersex or monoecious expressions on modern commercial strains, I think they respond to several main reasons:

1. The use of bagseeds for breeding brand new strains. Obviously there are some great elites that came from bagseed but knowing they may be the offspring from an intersex plant that pollinated the bud, using them for breeding is a big risk. Especially without proper breeding work to refine those intersex genes.
   
2. The incorporation and use of feminization techniques (S1, R1…). This was something terrible for the breeding and the quality of the strains because it’s ending with the gene diversity, besides it looked like something fantastic for the growers. Feminised and autoflowering strains are ending with genetics and proper breeding. Of course feminized seeds are not the problem themselves but the way they are done nowadays, how they use untested reversed females or even the same cut to pollinate itself (S1) and release them right from the scratch. The fact that most breeders don’t have the studies or proper experience in plant breeding and are just in the biz for the cash is the main problem behind all the problems with modern cannabis strains and scene.
   
3. The blooming of the industry and subsequent proliferation of unexperienced or wannabe breeders who don’t have the knowledge and infrastructures to develop strains using proper plant breeding techniques and criteria. The result is that we end with a poor product and the genetic diversity and quality of modern cannabis strains becomes worse and worse with the time. There's no coming back.

Conclussion:

If we don’t want intersex expressions on our plants we should avoid using intersex genes at all cost! You can smoke intersex plants but using them for breeding or landrace reproductions when no other firm males are available is a CRIME for the quality and future of the strain!

Probably another good start would be rejecting using unknown origin clone-only plants and S1s from amateur breeders who don’t test progenies before releasing (does anyone really do that actually nowadays?).

More info:

Some authors agree that cannabis is one of the few dioecious plants with heteromorphic sexual chromosomes, thus its sex comes determined by masculine heterogamy (the female chromosomes are XX, while males are XY). On the other hand, some researchers say that sexual determinism is the result of the interaction between genes and environmental factors:

Cannabis sativa L. is one of the best studied species under the aspect of genetic determinism of the sex, but the problem is not yet entirely deciphered. The opinions are different, sometimes contradictory. Thus, the hemp is included, according to some authors, in the category of plants with male heterogamy, whereas the others sustain the idea of a complex sex determinism, seen as resultant of interaction between individual hereditary potencies and the environmental factors (ELENA TRUŢĂ1*, ZENOVIA OLTEANU2, ŞTEFANIA SURDU1, MARIA-MAGDALENA ZAMFIRACHE2, LĂCRĂMIOARA OPRICĂ2 2007).

In the plant kingdom, the dioecy is relatively uncommon, and a very low percentage of dioecious plant species have the XY system well determined. In the cases where the XY system was found, the authors sustain that it have evolved recently and independently (Negrutiu et al. 001). In plants, the structure, the origin and the role of heterosomes in sex determination are poorly understood, despite the umber of studies on sex determination in haploid, diploid, and triploid plants (Warmke and Davidson, 1944; Nishiyama et al., 1947, cited by Sakamoto et al., 2005). Ming et al. (2007) consider that sex specificity has evolved in 75% of plant families by male sterile or female sterile mutations, but well-defined heteromorphic sex chromosomes are known in only four plant families. It is possible that an essential event in sex chromosome volution - suppression of recombination at the sex determination locus - not happened in most dioecious species.

Being a dioecious plant (Dioecious: different plants have monosexual female or male organs. Monoecious: same plant could have both sex organs) with sexual dimorphism while adult (there are differences between males/females like superior growth and more fiber content within males), one of the consequences of the male action (selecting for fiber, resin or flowers) since his relation to Cannabis started is the diversity in sexual expressions or even the monoecious plants that can be found within the species.

The genetic determinism of hemp sex. Cannabis sativa L. has a very complex genetic constitution and heredity which explains the dioecy, amplitude of phenotype variability, polymorphism and the great biological plasticity of this species. The flexibility of Cannabis sativa L. sexual phenotype often leads to the differentiation of hermaphrodite flowers or bisexual inflorescences (monoecious phenotype) (Moliterni et al., 2004). Therefore, the genetical component of sex determination and of sex control displays, by phenotype expression, a great variability in hemp.

Besides Cannabis may have its sex genetically defined or at least part of that information, this doesn’t mean that it can’t be influenced by enviromental conditions (epigenetics) or even other genes that can make the plant to express its genetic phenotype or not. The possibility of becoming monoecious or not it’s in their genes, as so is the trend to become dioecious with the time.

Because of intensive melioration, of pronounced segregation of the characters of intersexuate forms andbecause of the possibility to return to the initial dioecious type (the dioecy is dominant over monoecy -Potlog and Velican, 1972) the ways to realize intersexuate hemp varieties with traits of economicimportance and to perpetuate them in culture are limited. In practice, difficulties exist in the generalizationin culture of monoecious cultivars or of those with simultaneous maturity, because of the impossibility tomaintain their genetic purity. They manifest a strong segregation in descendance, and between these formsalways appear true male plants which, by pollination of intersexuate forms, determine the issue of a higher number of dioecious plants in descendance. The dioecious trait being dominant, the return to the dioecious type is rapid.

In 1987, Borodina and Migal prove that cannabis has a great polymorphism on its sexual expressions. Besides they are widely known as hermaphrodites, Borodina and Migal suggest to name this plants as intersex monoecious.

It was studied too that besides genetic factors, epigenetics like environment, phyto-hormones or photoperiodism may control sexualization of cannabis plants. Studies confirm the influence of endogen hormones in genetic sex (auxines, cytokinines, giberellines and ethylene). It was found that auxines were related to the feminine traits in plants while high gibberelline levels increased masculinity levels.

In some hemp genotypes it is possible to obtain total or partial reversion of the sex. It is known that the treatment with masculinizing or feminizing chemical agents is effective in determining the formation of the opposite sex reproductive organs even in plants that are already sexually well differentiated. Chemicals that inhibit the biosynthesis or the activity of ethylene, such as aminoetoxyvinylglycine, silver thiosulphate and silver nitrate, have a masculinizing effect, while the precursorsor activators of the biosynthesis of ethylene, like etephon, have a feminizing effect (Mohan Ram & Sett, 1982a, 1982b). The ability to undergo sexual reversion is thought to have a genetic base: some ecotypes such as the Italian Carmagnola are very resistant to any sex reversion treatment, while plants belonging to Fibranova cv. are quite prone to sex reversion(G. Grassi, E. de Meijer, personal communications).

Another factor involved in sex expression is photoperiodism, nutrition and temperature; as researched by Arnoux in late 60s.

Another factor that intervenes in sex modification is photoperiod, which has a masculinizing or feminizing effects, depending on day duration, whereas a nitrogenous rich nutrition induces a more or less phenotype masculinization (Arnoux, 1963, 1966, 1969). Thus, in hemp, the long day and the increased temperature are favourable to male sex phenotypisation, and the short day and the decreased emperature to female sex phenotypisation. This fact is realizable by the regulation of endogenous hormones level. The environmental action is very important, because can make unobservable the real genetical nature of a certain phenotype, fact that amplifies the difficulties in analysis and interpretation of sex ratio in studied descendance.

Hope it helps,
Vibes.

 

[Mate Dave]

I sure hope so!!!
Marker tests for genetic or stress induced intersex would help all Cannabis breeders, if they can be found. A few decades of using these tests would change the face of Cannabis, as few intersexed would be used anymore as parents, or if you see something you like in a variety with intersex problems grow a few thousand and find one without intersex markers and use that one.
I see the problem as two fold, one is the use of intersex parents, the second is the small plant numbers used in breeding, it allows for few choices and forces you to use the best of just a few plants, regardless if intersex or not. Why would anyone pick an intersex parent if they had another similar parent of the same variety without the problems of intersex? They don't because of the small numbers grown to select the parents from.
Regardless of what happens the real truth is that unconscious growers make most of the Cannabis seeds in the world, from Cambodia to Africa, to the rest of the world, most Cannabis is seeded and a lot more seeds are produced then the less then 100 million that are in the Cannabis drug seed biz, that is only two tons of seed or less, a very small part of the worlds annual Cannabis seed production. Hemp seed is much more and drug variety seed production is way way higher in the 3rd world by a factor of thousands if not more.
-SamS

Ajrian reckons he can test for this hermi trait.. Much as you say Sam.. Now after reading this I think he is full of even more Bullshit.

The ideas and principle is brilliant but the millions of seeds made in the 3rd world would still be partially hermi as the impossibility of performing genetic resource management in the field up up 2000m on the side of a cliff.. Where ever,, In India... it ain't gonna happen. And you personally cannot guarantee that the types made in laboratories will perform like the naturalised hybrids in the wild these days as the farmers rely on the crop to survive.. I wouldn't want to grow bedroom hacks and STS plants in a natural world.. It won't work well.


My thinking behind hermis is already documented on this forum.. I feel that some plants pass on to their progeny the information needed to deal with stressful conditions and some don't.. It is proven that some genus do adopt this style of hereditary evolution...

Take the principle factors for growth water light and dirt..

Any of these falls out the comfort range and poof. Ladyboys!!!

Likewise you grow a plant with far too much red or far red Poof!

Some red light kill plants, proven in horticultural lamp manufacturing tests, it has to be a plant that WILL grow under a HPS light that won't stress with the harmful HPS rays that are not cut out by the atmosphere.

Simple logic really. Not enough water Poof! Sudden heat wave and far red in the early pre-growth stage Poof!


The internal genetic code of cannabis and its ancestors will define the flowering triggers in the species, is it more rudaralis and thus monoecious and displaying some form of flower morphology. If it was cultivated and domesticated after discovery and had has multiple backcrosses and been hybridised with other cultivars what had been selected to flower under the main photo-generative period, these are mostly triggered by photochrome and short days but you have all manner of bastardisation going on in these types these days tho people don't test for this cos they are fairly douchbaggery and the modern breeders they are mostly cowboys..... I can name 50 cowboys on this forum......


Its a given that THC rich plants deal with solar radiation much more efficiently than low THC hemp cultivars..

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Ajrian reckons he can test for this hermi trait.. Much as you say Sam.. Now after reading this I think he is full of even more Bullshit.

The ideas and principle is brilliant but the millions of seeds made in the 3rd world would still be partially hermi as the impossibility of performing genetic resource management in the field up up 2000m on the side of a cliff.. Where ever,, In India... it ain't gonna happen. And you personally cannot guarantee that the types made in laboratories will perform like the naturalised hybrids in the wild these days as the farmers rely on the crop to survive.. I wouldn't want to grow bedroom hacks and STS plants in a natural world.. It won't work well.

I have no idea if what he is saying is true, I have my doubts.
Where did he get the test? Who developed the test?
I know of DNA tests for males and for females, I know they work. I have heard rumors of intersex DNA tests I have not seen it, or used it. Where are they? I have seen one for sale, I guess I need to buy one and test it. I have little faith.
-SamS

 

[Mate Dave]

He has not said publicly that he has invented a test Sam. He thinks he has a 800 lamp facility that do's his stuff these days..

I personally can see males and females with a rot tip crush test I was shown @ college.. Simple to do.. You can see the chromosomes split then pair up and you can see the Y show itself without a pair.. You can count the pairs too... But it is ineffective for the hermit trait..

What tests have you performed? This is the only one I know of that can be done with seedlings...

Care to link me with the place to buy one of those kits from Sam? Got any ideas on it's effectiveness and weather of not they can determine if seedlings contain cannabis survival mechanisms..