The Haze discussion thread

[@hempy]

Point is at f1 it was still the only thing preserved one generation removed..be that however...the hazeA was lost prematurely...other wise the preservation may have been different....
its just like I saw someone say afew posts back how the a5 was taken an put to the malawi and panama and for sativa lovers gave out some wonderful sativa plants....sounds familiar...only nevil used a more sativa a5 and hit it to a more satvia plant than those mentiond above...a pure long flowering haze male of a certain percentage of diferering blood...why would that not push the sativa boundary further than those above...and it actually did...and remained the only thing preserved one generation removed of legit haze.

Nevil made pure Haze seed but they grew into hay and the only way forward was to out cross it as Sam keeps telling people to do.

Even if Nevil still had the original plants that came from the seed he bought from Sam he still out cross them but the direction he go now is to a pure Thai and to find that it took him 35 plus years.

I wont bother telling people why as i tried to that and i got shit for thanks for my efforts so now people can work it out them self's now.

Even Tom Hill will tell you 1% to 3% of his Haze is what he calls special rest is hay.

 

[herbgreen]

The Sk/HzA was seed Nevil made that he past on to shanti and the 5HzC was a plant called 122 that shanti picked that came from the plants Nevil ran from seed and selected i wont give away to much about the 122 but will say the plant i called OTHER looked smelt smoked just like 122 going by shanti. I preferred Queeny she was the closest i have found to LSD in a plant to date the Thai is almost as close were the HzC or 122 had a more old school Colombian high.

The Mango Haze test seed were handed out to 10 people in the Mr Nice forum at Cannabis world of the 10 only me and Jesse completed the grow were most if not all of the rest culled them as they grew and acted like jungle sativas big mistake on there part.The released Mango haze was re worked to be more user friendly.

At the same time as the Mango Haze test seed were handed out a SkHz a test seed line was also sent out that was called Shit Haze again no one but me did a grow thread that was never released and i believe that was SKHzA. Why do i say that well the plants again were like the Mango Haze test seed minus the Mango smell the skunk haze that got released many years later looks nothing like them.

...you think the mango came out of the 122 Hz5c ?

 

[GoatCheese]

...you think the mango came out of the 122 Hz5c ?

Here’s what Nevil wrote about it at MNS forum:

Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Even Tom Hill will tell you 1% to 3% of his Haze is what he calls special rest is hay.

i doubt sam would agree that 97 to 99% of haze is hay ,
but then he may not know it like you seem to .... lol ....

im sure tom retracted that statement anyhow ,
and likely meant to say a small % are super duper ,
If i recall it was more in the range of 5% ,
and the rest range from good to average ....

i mean who the heck would bother growing something that 99% of is hay ,
it would mean mad mac has only grown hay ,, and nearly all tods seeds will also produce hay ...

 

[MAHA KALA]

Blessed love .

It is great, works Nevil did . It didn't started an ends with him(RIP). From what was invision by sativa's brother's (Haze brothers) to Sam Skunkman to the consumer's. It sativa in general , HAZE'S in particular, has run the gamut, but pockets survive ,to be reemerge ,refine even.

Each man work stand on merit. so now with above mentioned names, they're also apostles/practitioner, like in Golli, Seedsman , johnny Chicago,ojd , MadMac,yosammy,karma-ace seed not to forget all Haze Lovers ,on this site (icmag)big up !

​​​​​JAH Guidance!

yes, it ends with him. no doubt. it was great work in making first generation hybrids. but these knock offs are really weak. like I said he himself didn't recommend to inbreed it. why? grow all these knock offs which are inbred generation of his first generation and you will see why. thats why it ends with him. and dont say he was breeding haze as he never released pure haze, like he did in case of skunk one for example. so we can judge his ability to make first generation hybrids, which was good, but cant judge his ability to inbreed HAZE as he never did it.

NLhaze is not haze. it is same with skunk haze or any other hybrid like that. it is not Haze, it is not northern lights, it is something between it. good smoke for many, not good enough for real haze lovers.

and yes, original haze doesn't end with skunkman I agree. as it is great inbred line and very useful breeding tool, which was proved by Nevil and many others you mentioned.

I still ask this question and none of you guys want to answer it. why he never took his NLhaze to third generation and instead of it he decided to cross it with sativas from Kangativa stock? just think about it. he wasn't dumb like his followers and knew why.

I smoked his jack herrer around 2000 many times. it doesn't exist anymore. I grew cuts of this first generation neville´s haze and I grew mr. nice seed NH. it is incomparable.. there is exact difference between it.

peace.

 

[@hempy]

i doubt sam would agree that 97 to 99% of haze is hay ,
but then he may not know it like you seem to .... lol ....

im sure tom retracted that statement anyhow ,
and likely meant to say a small % are super duper ,
If i recall it was more in the range of 5% ,
and the rest range from good to average ....

i mean who the heck would bother growing something that 99% of is hay ,
it would mean mad mac has only grown hay ,, and nearly all tods seeds will also produce hay ...

So you now have telepathy Donald is that what your trying to tell us ? So you know what Tom said or did not say in conversation we had in chat here at icmag were you were not present.

 

[@hempy]

Posted by Nevil -
The stock that I got from Sam was 69'/ 70'. He told me it was 60'/70' and warned me of poor germination results. The various batches were labeled and dated. All indications are that he was telling the truth. He was also reluctant to sell because of limited stock.
Is anyone suggesting that either he or I are lying about this?
N.

Posted by Nevil -
Sorry, that was a typo. I meant 69'/70'.
As I said, he was reluctant to sell, but he needed money.
The bags and labeling looked at least 15 years old. The germination rates were consistant with seeds of this age. And most importantly, I was not aware of any significance of these dates. If he said they were from 76', I still would have been interested. No, if he was lying, the seeds would have been older and not bred by him. The benefit in this case, would be that he could claim authorship. Otherwise, who benefits?
Please explain more fully the reasons for your suspicions.

Posted by Nevil -
Well Bigherb, I wouldn't swear on a kilo of Haze Hash, that he told me that he grew them himself.
I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more.
Everything useful was from before 1970. The one plant that came up from '70 batch, Omega, was at best 25% haze and didn't make the grade.
N.

Posted by Nevil -
I remember the Catalogue of Seeds
It was in a High Times.
You raise some interesting questions Bigherb, but not ones that I can answer. My guess is that Sam got these seeds from an old Master. One thing I am convinced of is that these seeds were part of his working gene bank and were irreplaceable. He was reluctant to sell.
I also clearly remember that the first 6 plants came from batches dated prior to 1970.
As I said before, the plants were hybrids. By all means, see if you can get to the bottom of this. I have given my testemony.
N.

Posted by Nevil -
Here is a quote from Sam the skunkman made on ICMAG in 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman
But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know.
-SamS
Duh!
And so there is no further confusion, I have never met the Haze bros and I never got a useful haze clone from anybody.
If you want me to speculate (I know you do), I would say that the seeds that I bought, were seeds that he got off his neighbours (haze bros.) with the admonition not to give them to anyone. He sold them to me and now he's trying to cover his arse, by saying that the sale was conditional. Can you believe it, selling seeds to a seed company that were 15+ years old with the warning that none might come up, but if they do I couldn't use them? That sounds like a deal that I'd go for (sarcasm). Remember this was a deal in '84 for thousands of dollars between 2 guys strapped for cash.

They say that if you smell a skunk, you might think that it's full of shit.
Well, O.K., I made that up.
N.

Posted by Nevil -
Yeah, I've heard Sam whining before about how he should really get a royalty from everyone who he sold seeds to who used his genetics, 50% for pure lines and 25% for hybrids. This is after he sold you something for more than the price of gold in the first place. By his own admission, he didn't start working with Haze until the 70's. All the good ones I grew were from prior to 1970, so whose seeds were they, or is Sam a secret Haze brother. It seems that Sam feels that he deserves a lot of respect for getting seeds from one competent guy and selling them to another. Indeed, it may well be his finest achievement.

I got 7 plants out of a couple of thousand seeds and they were all different. So which ones were the pure ones exactly! Royalties indeed, I think I'll call him 'Monsanto Sam".
N.

Found here https://mrnice.nl/forum/threads/grail-the-ultimate-haze-hybrid.4345/page-4

 

[Donald Mallard]

So you now have telepathy Donald is that what your trying to tell us ? So you know what Tom said or did not say in conversation we had in chat here at icmag were you were not present.

dont need telepathy when folks write stuff on the forum hempy ,
im just saying what i have read ,
you werent around i guess ,,,
but if u look hard , you will find its not what you said ,
i dont care if you talked to tom or not ,
but i know what he has written on the subject before...

no need to be a smart ass man ,, its really not necessary ....

 

[Stocktont]

seems like he liked it...

 

[ojd]

..... but it always comes back to the central argument, Nevil's Haze is not Haze, it's a NL hybrid, which makes it a false equivalence.

Every Haze is a Haze Hybrid apart from Original Haze F2 , BX etc so you guys keep repeating the same breeze again and again.

There is Original Haze and there is every other Haze ever made .
There are countless famous Haze cuts in many country's some kept 20-30 years they are that special , is there any Original Haze cuts that are even 10 years old ?
Original haze is special, very special, just not as special as some of its offspring found over the years , get over it.

 

[GoatCheese]

..... but it always comes back to the central argument, Nevil's Haze is not Haze, it's a NL hybrid, which makes it a false equivalence.

Yea, What is Haze? There are seemingly prolly 10+ different Geno/phenotypes coming thru just the HazeC male and most “Haze lovers” use the simplistic term Haze for all of them. Like true scholars, ay.
If you grow pure Colombian Gold it’s not called Haze, it’s C Gold
If you grow pure Columbian Punto Rojo It’s not Haze, it’s PR
But if you find Columbian Gold pheno or Punto Rojo pheno in Haze seeds then magically they are now called Haze.

Haze is just a pop term, a buzz word people like to throw around in recent years. It’s a fad.
..But I have to admit I feel abit special too when I use the term Haze. Arguing about it daily is even more pleasing for my petty soul.

 

[Humple W.]

Damn, there's a hell of a documentary in all this, if the truth could ever really be found.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Yea, What is Haze? ..But I have to admit I feel abit special too when I use the term Haze. Arguing about it daily is even more pleasing for my petty soul.

hahahaa yes this ...

 

[willydread]

I think people have gone a bit too far with those hay% stories, I mean, it doesn't seem like JohnnyChicago and MadMac (and everyone else to follow) got all that hay, probably some individuals are much more powerful than others, but even my haze, grown in the least suitable way for them, were of excellent quality ....
Hybrids ... a cross is a cross, whether it is with Thai or Afghan it does not matter, it remains a cross ... I have no idea why Nevil (or others) made crosses that way, I would use Nl5hz to make certain tropical sativas more "manageable" ...
But I (i know i am strange) would have selected the more "sativa" pheno in Nl5hz before crossing them with another sativa, some others prefer the more nl-inclined pheno ...

 

[@hempy]

I think people have gone a bit too far with those hay% stories, I mean, it doesn't seem like JohnnyChicago and MadMac (and everyone else to follow) got all that hay, probably some individuals are much more powerful than others, but even my haze, grown in the least suitable way for them, were of excellent quality ....
Hybrids ... a cross is a cross, whether it is with Thai or Afghan it does not matter, it remains a cross ... I have no idea why Nevil (or others) made crosses that way, I would use Nl5hz to make certain tropical sativas more "manageable" ...
But I (i know i am strange) would have selected the more "sativa" pheno in Nl5hz before crossing them with another sativa, some others prefer the more nl-inclined pheno ...

I gave seeds to both the Original Haze growers in 1972 and also later, One used Thai and S Indian with his Haze in the very early 70's. The other grew the Thai but decided it was not as good as Haze and did not use it. The very first Original Haze was a crop of both green, lime green, purple, and other colors, all from Columbian, after that I am not sure and anyone that says they are, is just fooling themselves. One of the Haze growers RL told me a different story then the Original Haze guy that did it first up in the SC mountains and then in the next few years moved down to right by my house, less then a block away, the other Haze grower RL, who put out the OH poster lived a block the other side of my house. I had a friend "J" that used to help the SC mountain Haze grower, he was also a good friend of RCC, he told me all about the early Original Haze I never saw, as I got back to SC in early 1972. They both told me different stories, I did not care so much it was the Cannabis I was interested in.

-SamS

If a Hybrid is not a Haze then Haze is no longer Haze.

 

[@hempy]

Every Haze is a Haze Hybrid apart from Original Haze F2 , BX etc so you guys keep repeating the same breeze again and again.

There is Original Haze and there is every other Haze ever made .
There are countless famous Haze cuts in many country's some kept 20-30 years they are that special , is there any Original Haze cuts that are even 10 years old ?
Original haze is special, very special, just not as special as some of its offspring found over the years , get over it.

This is the only forum were Nevil and his work is chastised its not the Forum its only a hand full of people doing it and they seam to have an agenda.

 

[willydread]

Hempy, you're too smart to not understand what I said, ... For those not smart enough to understand:
Original haze(be it a 4 way cross or colombian) is haze.
NL5 x haze, isn't haze.
​​​​(Nl5 x haze) x haze, isn't haze.
Punto rojo x haze, isn't haze.
Rainbow Bridge x haze, isn't haze.
Skunk x haze, isn't haze.

​​​​​I have nothing else to say.

 

[willydread]

This is the only forum were Nevil and his work is chastised its not the Forum its only a hand full of people doing it and they seam to have an agenda.

I read this later, I'm not a fanboy or troll, I don't judge Nevil as a person, his work is excellent, even if most of those who have carried it forward have not been so skilled ... Actually, apart from a couple of people, I haven't seen much criticism of Nevil or his work ...

 

[acespicoli]

twist cones not panties

Hi all seams a few are getting there panty's all twisted out of shape when we bring up Neville's work with Haze and his contributions so i felt it was best to open a new thread were we can discuss both Sam and Neville's Haze lines is a mature and respectful way.

 

[@hempy]

Hempy, you're too smart to not understand what I said, ... For those not smart enough to understand:
Original haze(be it a 4 way cross or colombian) is haze.
NL5 x haze, isn't haze.
​​​​(Nl5 x haze) x haze, isn't haze.
Punto rojo x haze, isn't haze.
Rainbow Bridge x haze, isn't haze.
Skunk x haze, isn't haze.

​​​​​I have nothing else to say.

I fully understand what you posted but you seam to have over looked the small point of what is haze ?. When even the Haze brothers are not sure of what haze is how can others know ?.

I gave seeds to both the Original Haze growers in 1972 and also later, One used Thai and S Indian with his Haze in the very early 70's. The other grew the Thai but decided it was not as good as Haze and did not use it. The very first Original Haze was a crop of both green, lime green, purple, and other colors, all from Columbian, after that I am not sure and anyone that says they are, is just fooling themselves. One of the Haze growers RL told me a different story then the Original Haze guy that did it first up in the SC mountains and then in the next few years moved down to right by my house, less then a block away, the other Haze grower RL, who put out the OH poster lived a block the other side of my house. I had a friend "J" that used to help the SC mountain Haze grower, he was also a good friend of RCC, he told me all about the early Original Haze I never saw, as I got back to SC in early 1972. They both told me different stories, I did not care so much it was the Cannabis I was interested in.

-SamS