The Haze discussion thread

[willydread]

Honestly I'm having a hard time explaining things that are too simple .... Sam talks about what the brothers did with original haze AFTER they got them from him, which implies that the seeds he brought to Holland are the same ones he would have given to the haze brothers, i.e. pure Colombian ... We must stick to the one that was among those who spoke ....
I'm based on what Sam said, my opinion is different, BUT I wasn't there, he was ....

IF Sam gave the seeds to the Haze brothers in 1972, how does anyone else get the original haze seeds straight from the 1969 Haze brothers?

 

[@hempy]

HEMPY my Haze story would be too long. Began 30 years ago when I got a bag of Haze19 from my cousin, that my uncle did not like becasue it was to cerebral and strong for him. That was only few years before Nevils incense Hazes invasion

I never heard the term Haze until i joined the forum at CW 20 / 21 years ago soon after i started collecting Haze hydrid lines starting with NH made by Nevil Mango Haze shit haze and so on.

It wasn't until i grew my first Haze hybrid that i realized Haze had a connection to a very old line here called tripping weed that i believe was haze i first saw in 79 but traed it back to at lest 76 from older smokers so far.

The plants you found that were not hay i bet i can describe the highs you found in the keeper plants.

You would of found what i call the Colombian high its a powerful high with a little noidy and a touch of stone.
You would of found what i call the electric or acid high that comes at you in waves like a roller coaster ride very powerful high..
You would of found the euphoric high that is hard to put in wards like your almost floating have a glow about you and are at peace with the world.

 

[herbgreen]

Honestly I'm having a hard time explaining things that are too simple .... Sam talks about what the brothers did with original haze AFTER they got them from him, which implies that the seeds he brought to Holland are the same ones he would have given to the haze brothers, i.e. pure Colombian ... We must stick to the one that was among those who spoke ....
I'm based on what Sam said, my opinion is different, BUT I wasn't there, he was ....

IF Sam gave the seeds to the Haze brothers in 1972, how does anyone else get the original haze seeds straight from the 1969 Haze brothers?

Sam gave them thai and s. indian seeds but they had the haze when Sam met them... Sam said he preserved original haze and he brought it to Holland ect

I dont think anyone knows exactly what haze is...... and it will remain a mystery

Other than its Colombian and possibly, whatever...... the haze bros dont even know exactly

 

[willydread]

Surely we will never know, the versions have been rewritten so many times that it all seems true and at the same time all false ...
Again, I don't think it's pure Colombian, but that's just my opinion ....
However, beyond what original haze really is, we were talking about pure haze and hybrids, in particular this sentence:

"If a Hybrid is not a Haze then Haze is no longer Haze...
​​​​​

Haze is haze, otherwise we could call any cross "haze" (and I know it has already been done, but that's not correct)...

However I don't want to have quarrels, problems or arguments about original haze and things I don't know yet, I stay firm in my ideas and beliefs, and leave theirs to others ...
What I'm trying to tell you HEMPY is that it's not my goal to attack or clash with you, I just have a different point of view, have a good day / evening, you and everyone.
Bless

 

[acespicoli]

https://phylos.bio/sims/variety/PGT-13999/ma-dang/thai-stick

• Gold Colombian
• Panama
• Purple Haze #23
• Green Haze #19

 

[ojd]

Anyone who has grown pure Thai seeds will know that Haze has Thai in its lineage and is clear to see where the C Haze lineage comes from

 

[@hempy]

Anyone who has grown pure Thai seeds will know that Haze has Thai in its lineage and is clear to see where the C Haze lineage comes from

I call that the electric or acid high that comes at you in waves like a roller coaster ride a very powerful high.

HazeC Pic by Kashgari from one of shantibabas mom n dad rooms.

 

[Raho]

Anyone who has grown pure Thai seeds will know that Haze has Thai in its lineage and is clear to see where the C Haze lineage comes from

Completely wrong in my experience ojd

I can only guess that I smoked a lot more Colombian import in the 70's and 80s than you did. Many many pounds. Grew the seeds and smoked my flowers.
I also smoked imported Thai ('79 sticks and '84 loose). Grew those seeds and smoked that too.
Taking it further, I grew and smoked an amazing NorCal Thai x Afghan F1 hybrid in 82, and used to smoke it back to back with my 81 Thai Stick flower stash and compare it to the cross.
I can pick out the unique tastes and effects of those lines from that era as they are quite distinct, even in hybrids.

I have never read a single person who says "Haze is Thai influenced" who actually describes the difference between Colombian and Thai effects. Usually they talk about terps/tastes that could be found in either line, and powerful "trippy" effects. Vague to the point of meaningless.
I'm not saying that they haven't smoked it. They may have. But different people have different abilities to immerse themselves, discern and describe their experiences.

Before you ask me to detail these differences for you here, I'm not going to. Partly because I'm not gonna put in the work, and partly because keeping that to myself makes it very easy to tell who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. If I lay out those experiences in detail up here, every Jr High School kid with a plant in their mom's basement will have an easier time fakin it.

Part of the problem is that for years, people have been told that haze had Thai in it so they think that some Colombian traits are Thai traits. Many people (even some close to Sam like RCC and Mel Frank) spread misinformation about the "4 sativa" pedigree either knowingly or unknowingly for years. Every dutch breeder including Nevil spread the story that it was colombian x mexican x thai x indian. Hell, Shanti probably still thinks it is a 4 way cross just like you do.
I don't know if Sam ever posted the misleading pedigree story himself using one of the internet personas he adopted over the years before posting here transparently under his Sam Skunkman identity. I like to think he didn't.

Hempy posts all these old ICmag Sam quotes, but has somehow missed Sam's authoritative statement on the ancestry of HIS haze seeds (you know, the ones 99% of the world has worked with in some form or another.)
Sam answered my post where I told him that I knew with certainty from the smoke that Seedsman oHaze from him contains only Colombian genetics, and asked him to confirm it.
He replied that I was correct and that "a cross of different Colombians" is all he has ever said it was.

He said that many hybrids were made with haze by him and others. Some with Thai, Indian, Mexican and others.
He made it crystal clear that he never sold these hybrid lines as "Haze." Any of those crosses were always sold with their hybrid pedigree explicitly stated. "Haze x Whatever"
He qualified that by saying that what breeders/dealers did with seed they bought from him afterwards is beyond his knowledge.
Even in what many call Sam's "Haze Catalog" that was published in the "R" Connoisseur column in High Times, he explicitly details the pedigree of those Haze hybrids as different lines for sale, supporting his statement that he has always been clear on that.

I'm not going to dig up the links. It's in the "Ask Sam about Haze" thread.
According to MadMac, Positronic Haze is a good example of a haze hybrid mislabeled as "Haze", and several people have made a convincing case that Tom Hill Haze has some non-oHaze genetics in the family tree somewhere.
I have a friend (that many here know) who can detail the unique differences in taste and effect between multiple Colombian cultivars (SMG, PR, etc etc.) He's a true preservationist and connoisseur. I don't go as deep as he does. I can pick out a few unique cultivar specific traits in different Colombians, but I don't need to match his experience and observations to recognize that the tastes and effects of ohaze are classic unmistakable Colombo. I have never gotten Thai effects from Haze.

Haze C is classic Colombian in taste and effect and VERY similar to a top Seedsman oHaze pheno.

I told Hempy that I wouldn't post in his thread, and I hate breaking my word, but sometimes the stuff posted in here is just too much to let pass without comment.
Apologies Hempy.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

According to MadMac, Positronic Haze is a good example of a haze hybrid mislabeled as "Haze", and several people have made a convincing case that Tom Hill Haze has some non-oHaze genetics in the family tree somewhere.
I have a friend (that many here know) who can detail the unique differences in taste and effect between multiple Colombian cultivars (SMG, PR, etc etc.) He's a true preservationist and connoisseur. I don't go as deep as he does. I can pick out a few unique cultivar specific traits in different Colombians, but I don't need to match his experience and observations to recognize that the tastes and effects of ohaze are classic unmistakable Colombo. I have never gotten Thai effects from Haze.

Haze C is classic Colombian in taste and effect and VERY similar to a top Seedsman oHaze pheno.

I told Hempy that I wouldn't post in his thread, and I hate breaking my word, but sometimes the stuff posted in here is just too much to let pass without comment.
Apologies Hempy.

I have grown Positonics Haze in 1995 outdoor.
And in december they had snow on them and they were all by far not mature.
Also zero purple.
Not a hybrid. Not for me.
Not in december/january.

Also my experience tells me, Haze19 (that I have smoked before growing Positronics Haze, but didn't know Haze19 was the mother) due to it's high and bud structure, must have been a fast pheno or at least not a very slow one.
If positronics Hazes were in ready in january, and mother was Haze19, then they have been pure in 1995. It's evident, at least for me.

 

[@hempy]

Raho i have described the old school Colombian high and old Thai high many times but what i have to post seams to be of nil importance clearly by a few of you.

All people have to go with in the way of Haze history is Sam and Nevil's posts and the high Times magazine articles like it or not.

I gave seeds to both the Original Haze growers in 1972 and also later, One used Thai and S Indian with his Haze in the very early 70's. The other grew the Thai but decided it was not as good as Haze and did not use it. The very first Original Haze was a crop of both green, lime green, purple, and other colors, all from Columbian, after that I am not sure and anyone that says they are, is just fooling themselves. One of the Haze growers RL told me a different story then the Original Haze guy that did it first up in the SC mountains and then in the next few years moved down to right by my house, less then a block away, the other Haze grower RL, who put out the OH poster lived a block the other side of my house. I had a friend "J" that used to help the SC mountain Haze grower, he was also a good friend of RCC, he told me all about the early Original Haze I never saw, as I got back to SC in early 1972. They both told me different stories, I did not care so much it was the Cannabis I was interested in.

-SamS

In this post by Sam he clearly states the Haze brothers worked separately after haze was made F1 it had other lines added both Haze brothers did different things away from each other.

The story from one haze brother was different to the story of the other haze brother Sam clearly says ( They both told me different stories, I did not care so much it was the Cannabis I was interested in.).

Any one that grew up smoking old school Colombians and Thai would easily describe there highs mate.

Colombian high has a powerful high that is a little noidy and has a touch of stone.
Thai high is electric or acid like high that comes at you in waves like a roller coaster ride very powerful high.

 

[Montuno]

I have grown Positonics Haze in 1995 outdoor.
And in december they had snow on them and they were all by far not mature.
Also zero purple.
Not a hybrid. Not for me.
Not in december/january.

Also my experience tells me, Haze19 (that I have smoked before growing Positronics Haze, but didn't know Haze19 was the mother) due to it's high and bud structure, must have been a fast pheno or at least not a very slow one.
If positronics Hazes were in ready in january, and mother was Haze19, then they have been pure in 1995. It's evident, at least for me.

Well, if it had snow in December, logically very little was going to ripen.
From 10 °C downwards, flowering slows down considerably with tropical sativas, until it comes to a complete standstill as it approaches 0 °C and the survival of the plant is at stake.
The same varieties ripen up to a week earlier a little more than 50 km south of my house, simply because the minimum temperatures are about 4° C higher on the southern slope than on mine.
The same with fruit trees...

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[JohnnyChicago]

Well, if it had snow in December, logically very little was going to ripen.
From 10 °C downwards, flowering slows down considerably with tropical sativas, until it comes to a complete standstill as it approaches 0 °C and the survival of the plant is at stake.
The same varieties ripen up to a week earlier a little more than 50 km south of my house, simply because the minimum temperatures are about 4° C higher on the southern slope than on mine.
The same with fruit trees...

They were slow in october too. But can't remember exactly to be honest.
I was more speaking of haze19 that must have been a 15 or 16 weeker.
And if it has been crossed to something faster, then it cannot get slower than the mother.
One pheno yes, but not all.
So for me they did use an OH male on their Haze19.

But SamS told me he gave the Haze19 cut to Positronics, and they did select their male from seed.
So everything is possible. Nobody knows 100% what they have used.

 

[Montuno]

When does your O.H. selection flower outdoors (without no greenhouse, in your latitude and climate), Mr JohnnyChicago ?

​In my latitude and climate (39°N, 900 meters altitude, hundreds of kilometers from the coast), 15-16 weeks means between November 23rd and December 7th, aprox (I thik)...​​​​​​

(I have O.H. thanks to the surprisingly generous gift from MadMac...I don't know if it's exactly like yours...(?)

 

[Raho]

I have grown Positonics Haze in 1995 outdoor.
And in december they had snow on them and they were all by far not mature.
Also zero purple.
Not a hybrid. Not for me.
Not in december/january.

Also my experience tells me, Haze19 (that I have smoked before growing Positronics Haze, but didn't know Haze19 was the mother) due to it's high and bud structure, must have been a fast pheno or at least not a very slow one.
If positronics Hazes were in ready in january, and mother was Haze19, then they have been pure in 1995. It's evident, at least for me.

Understood amigo.
Your report confirms that Posi was pure haze 25 years ago.
Haze 19 was a cut direct from Sam according to him, and said they liked it and picked it from a tray of clones that he offered them, then made their own seeds with a male they selected from ohaze seed stock.
Mac's experience with the recent gear is what I was referring to.
MadMac has told a story about Posi/TFD that relays their experiments with various gear from Sam during the 90s, losses of cuts during the wars between breeders over there and laws changing, and trying to recreate their lines from seed in Spain in the 2000s. It's simply not the same as it was in the 90s.

 

[@hempy]

Who here honestly remembers the Haze grow threads of 20 plus years ago at Cannabis World or at OverGrow and the smoke reports from the growers along with there detailed pictures ?.

Nevil's Haze and Ohaze i do and i have yet to read a smoke report like them in the last 10 years or more.

Stars Ohaze grow reminded me of them.

Most smoke reports i see now remind me more of a social smoke not of Haze.

 

[acespicoli]

if haze is lumbo and cannabis is not native to south america where did the lumbo come from ?

 

[funkyhorse]

The first to introduce cannabis to South America were spaniard conquerors in their first trips. Earliest report of cannabis grow I read about in South America was done at Quillota Valley at around 1550

The ones to spread cannabis around South America and making it the basis of their economical empire were the jesuits when Colombia was the Viceroyalty of Nueva Granada: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Jesus

There are reports of indonesian/dutch labs introducing ganja during the first half of the 20th century to Colombia. Some other reports indicate same happened with american labs in Colombia.
I didnt find any reliable source of information indicating clearly where Punto Rojo comes from. Phylos or any other lab of that kind is absolutely non reliable as source of info
I personally believe that the extinct paraguayan ganja was the left overs of the Jesuits work. No lab went to Paraguay and introduced anything. Only DEA has set base in Pedro Juan Caballero in 2006 ruining what was left of the hybridized by that time paraguayan ganja forever

 

[JohnnyChicago]

When does your O.H. selection flower outdoors (without no greenhouse, in your latitude and climate), Mr JohnnyChicago ?

​In my latitude and climate (39°N, 900 meters altitude, hundreds of kilometers from the coast), 15-16 weeks means between November 23rd and December 7th, aprox (I thik)...​​​​​​

(I have O.H. thanks to the surprisingly generous gift from MadMac...I don't know if it's exactly like yours...(?)

I am not at all an outdoor grower, Montuno.
Best is you take Dubis tipps for Oldtimers Haze. You can't go wrong by doing that.
And maybe MadMac has sent you an OH line that is appropriate to your climate.

Seedsman OH was a surprising generous gift from me to the community.
And MadMac is the one who got my very best seeds, to make a repro and to share with the people.
Gifting it for me basically

But not exactly the same, as he has put some work on it and his touch too.

 

[herbgreen]

Fantastic Work and puts a fire under people to get some Haze!

 

[herbgreen]

I have grown Positonics Haze in 1995 outdoor.
And in december they had snow on them and they were all by far not mature.
Also zero purple.
Not a hybrid. Not for me.
Not in december/january.

Also my experience tells me, Haze19 (that I have smoked before growing Positronics Haze, but didn't know Haze19 was the mother) due to it's high and bud structure, must have been a fast pheno or at least not a very slow one.
If positronics Hazes were in ready in january, and mother was Haze19, then they have been pure in 1995. It's evident, at least for me.

Tomhill came by recently was talking his haze was something Wernard had under the counter not haze 19 as was thought Or maybe youre saying its possible?