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The Haze discussion thread
- Thread starter @hempy
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If you reread your quote, Sam talks about haze as pure Colombian ... If you're asking me if I believe the Colombian dot story, no, I don't believe it, but I think I'm one of the few who didn't believe it ... However original haze is a well defined variety, (ibl?) Not a f1 or freshly made cross ...
There are several characters involved, some well known as RCC, but only Sam spoke, the others are all silent, without confirming or denying, why ?? This is among the few things I want to know, not about the eternal Nevil gang Vs Sam gang fight ... Those are kid things on Facebook ...
There are several characters involved, some well known as RCC, but only Sam spoke, the others are all silent, without confirming or denying, why ?? This is among the few things I want to know, not about the eternal Nevil gang Vs Sam gang fight ... Those are kid things on Facebook ...
acespicoli
Well-known member
?
Legend has it that the Original Haze cultivar was developed in Santa Cruz, California, in the early 1970s by two brothers: R. Haze and J. Haze. The brothers crossed a Mexican landrace with a Colombian landrace, which was then crossed with a Thai landrace.
genetics would explain that a 5% keeper ratio was probably more a poly hybrid
a two way cross f1 would have been a 25% keeper ratio right ?
unless f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 f6 f7 was resulting in gene loss
a ibl would be 100% keeper pheno ratios homogeneous ?
inbreeding depression - prob why sam said its better to take the best haze pheno and outcross it
Legend has it that the Original Haze cultivar was developed in Santa Cruz, California, in the early 1970s by two brothers: R. Haze and J. Haze. The brothers crossed a Mexican landrace with a Colombian landrace, which was then crossed with a Thai landrace.
genetics would explain that a 5% keeper ratio was probably more a poly hybrid
a two way cross f1 would have been a 25% keeper ratio right ?
unless f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 f6 f7 was resulting in gene loss
a ibl would be 100% keeper pheno ratios homogeneous ?
inbreeding depression - prob why sam said its better to take the best haze pheno and outcross it
i dont know why you keep repeating this over and over hempy ,
most have not overlooked anything and have simply listened to what sam has said/written ,
you seem to be wanting to change history again to suit your story,
no where in your quotes does it say haze is anything other than colombian ,
sure it mentions some crosses made , and sam will tell you they were not called haze ....
the different stories told does not mention whether that included what the original lineages were ,
or if they varied depending on who told the story ,
maybe you're reading into things that are not in fact there ... ??
seems like a ridiculous amount of time arguing over a name when its pretty obvious what has been written ...
also i dont see anyone running nevils name into the mud ,
no one has to agree with the way you and a few others put him on a pedestal ,
some folks are just not into hero worship ....
you plainly idolize the guy , others dont have to do that ,
but i dont see anyone bagging him ,
some dont like haze with northern lights in it ,
they are perfectly entitled to their opinion and taste ....
do you really think haze is 99% hay ???,
because if it was everyone trying it would have little hope of finding a decent plant ,
but they seem to be finding them quite easily ,
what does that say to you ??
what was nevils ratio of successful plants out of the 7 he started out with ???
doesnt sound like a 99% hay situation to me there either , does it to you ??
you could probably drop the 99% hay bit since its plainly inaccurate ....
JohnnyChicago
Well-known member
I had 50% hay from 40 seeds.
And those who are finding quite easily decent plants, got their seeds from me or from people who got them from me.
What does that say to you??
Do you know I have put 5 years of work and 30 years of passion for the Haze in it before I even did decide to share it?
It is not the first time, Donald, I react to your "easy"...
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Clearly you n others are not reading Sam or Nevil's posts and how am i trying to change the history of Haze by Quoting Sam and Nevil ?.
I don't idolize Nevil but he became a close friend and even if i did who are you to tell me who i should or shouldn't idolize. I am one of few people that never tried to use Nevil for self gain what you clearly don't get is Nevil reached out to me not me to him like most did including you.
I posted a response to willydread and you came at me with this clearly you have a agenda.
I spent years reading researching Haze i read many grow reports on OHaze from the forums starting over 20 years ago and if you think all haze are good plants then you have not done your research as few were. If You grew OHaze you needed to ran numbers like any hybrid to find keepers so lets keep it honest. Please don't start with the but how would you know you never grew it TRUE but many did and in there grow threads they reported there findings and i am just repeating them.
People have rubbished and attacked Nevil and his work and lets not start on the shady shit that went on from moose passing out clones of things he should not have to Clones Nevil organized and him not reciving them while others including you got them.
I have spent over 20 years growing Nevil's Haze hybrids and Some of Shantis i think i have some idea and over 40 years of growing pure sativas indoors and out doors and you always have some excuse to put my weed down from its indoor grown to its not grown in the tropics lol but you forget that the key to good cannabis is GENETICS. Haze was grown and breed in California far from the tropics and yet its said to be the strongest.
I don't idolize Nevil but he became a close friend and even if i did who are you to tell me who i should or shouldn't idolize. I am one of few people that never tried to use Nevil for self gain what you clearly don't get is Nevil reached out to me not me to him like most did including you.
I posted a response to willydread and you came at me with this clearly you have a agenda.
I spent years reading researching Haze i read many grow reports on OHaze from the forums starting over 20 years ago and if you think all haze are good plants then you have not done your research as few were. If You grew OHaze you needed to ran numbers like any hybrid to find keepers so lets keep it honest. Please don't start with the but how would you know you never grew it TRUE but many did and in there grow threads they reported there findings and i am just repeating them.
People have rubbished and attacked Nevil and his work and lets not start on the shady shit that went on from moose passing out clones of things he should not have to Clones Nevil organized and him not reciving them while others including you got them.
I have spent over 20 years growing Nevil's Haze hybrids and Some of Shantis i think i have some idea and over 40 years of growing pure sativas indoors and out doors and you always have some excuse to put my weed down from its indoor grown to its not grown in the tropics lol but you forget that the key to good cannabis is GENETICS. Haze was grown and breed in California far from the tropics and yet its said to be the strongest.
50 is so much better than 99 ,
and im sure the ones you obtained were a little more inbred than nevils ,
which kinda throws out the idea that inbreeding haze just turns to hay ,
im sure its possible , but its all about selection ,
seems your selection was good jc ,
the folks growing seeds that came from your hand seem happy with what they are finding ,
good form man , in time to come im sure many will be very happy you took the time you did with haze ...
even the "hay" phenos are likely quite ok if they were grown where they were happier ,
like a nice warm sunny climate closer to the equator ,
from what i can tell not all sativas do well indoors ,
some grown indoors that produced hay ,
would have done quite well in another setting is my thoughts...
Clearly you n others are not reading Sam or Nevil's posts and how am i trying to change the history of Haze by Quoting Sam and Nevil ?.
I don't idolize Nevil but he became a close friend and even if i did who are you to tell me who i should or shouldn't idolize. I am one of few people that never tried to use Nevil for self gain what you clearly don't get is Nevil reached out to me not me to him like most did including you.
did i say you cant idolize him , i simply said its obvious you do , and that you try to boost your persona by saying you were his friend that spoke with him everyday ,
and now that he reached out to you ,, maybe he enjoyed sycophants ?? some folks do ...
i didnt reach out to nevil , i rang him once or twice and had a yarn with him ,
he rang me a few times also to do the same , we talked about cannabis and our experiences with it ,
how did i try to use him??
I spent years reading researching Haze i read many grow reports on OHaze from the forums starting over 20 years ago and if you think all haze are good plants then you have not done your research as few were. If You grew OHaze you needed to ran numbers like any hybrid to find keepers so lets keep it honest. Please don't start with the but how would you know you never grew it TRUE but many did and in there grow threads they reported there findings and i am just repeating them.
in all that time it never occured to you to grow this thing you were obsessed with ?
you have grown haze hybrids only , your opinion of haze itself is not based on experience ,
since u have no experience growing unhybridized haze ,
your observations are clouded due to your opinion and your agenda to promote nevil and his hybrids ,
its clear for all to see this hempy , as much as you try to disguise it as something else and deny it ...
People have rubbished and attacked Nevil and his work and lets not start on the shady shit that went on from moose passing out clones of things he should not have to Clones Nevil organized and him not reciving them while others including you got them.
moose passing out clones , ? what the heck are you talking about ,
i never got clones from moose , and i never spoke with him about any clones ,
you have your wires crossed , which is quite common for you hempy ,
you have no idea man ...
are you upset i had a cutting of nevils and nevil didnt have it??
he never asked me for any cuttings , his time was already over by the time we got that im pretty sure ,
i wasnt going to go running around to try to make sure he had some ... i didnt even consider it to be honest ...
I have spent over 20 years growing Nevil's Haze hybrids and Some of Shantis i think i have some idea and over 40 years of growing pure sativas indoors and out doors and you always have some excuse to put my weed down from its indoor grown to its not grown in the tropics lol but you forget that the key to good cannabis is GENETICS. Haze was grown and breed in California far from the tropics and yet its said to be the strongest.
not sure what you are getting at here other than another rave about how long you have grown for ,
yay good for you , dont hurt your arm patting yourself on the back so much buddy ,
and i wasnt putting your weed down ,
i didnt even mention your weed man , you have a complex there i think ,
its well known that cannabis that hails from tropical regions ,
grows best in those regions , and is hard to replicate out of them and particularly indoors,
this is not a theory i have , its a well known fact and true of many things other than cannabis also ....
I don't idolize Nevil but he became a close friend and even if i did who are you to tell me who i should or shouldn't idolize. I am one of few people that never tried to use Nevil for self gain what you clearly don't get is Nevil reached out to me not me to him like most did including you.
did i say you cant idolize him , i simply said its obvious you do , and that you try to boost your persona by saying you were his friend that spoke with him everyday ,
and now that he reached out to you ,, maybe he enjoyed sycophants ?? some folks do ...
i didnt reach out to nevil , i rang him once or twice and had a yarn with him ,
he rang me a few times also to do the same , we talked about cannabis and our experiences with it ,
how did i try to use him??
I spent years reading researching Haze i read many grow reports on OHaze from the forums starting over 20 years ago and if you think all haze are good plants then you have not done your research as few were. If You grew OHaze you needed to ran numbers like any hybrid to find keepers so lets keep it honest. Please don't start with the but how would you know you never grew it TRUE but many did and in there grow threads they reported there findings and i am just repeating them.
in all that time it never occured to you to grow this thing you were obsessed with ?
you have grown haze hybrids only , your opinion of haze itself is not based on experience ,
since u have no experience growing unhybridized haze ,
your observations are clouded due to your opinion and your agenda to promote nevil and his hybrids ,
its clear for all to see this hempy , as much as you try to disguise it as something else and deny it ...
People have rubbished and attacked Nevil and his work and lets not start on the shady shit that went on from moose passing out clones of things he should not have to Clones Nevil organized and him not reciving them while others including you got them.
moose passing out clones , ? what the heck are you talking about ,
i never got clones from moose , and i never spoke with him about any clones ,
you have your wires crossed , which is quite common for you hempy ,
you have no idea man ...
are you upset i had a cutting of nevils and nevil didnt have it??
he never asked me for any cuttings , his time was already over by the time we got that im pretty sure ,
i wasnt going to go running around to try to make sure he had some ... i didnt even consider it to be honest ...
I have spent over 20 years growing Nevil's Haze hybrids and Some of Shantis i think i have some idea and over 40 years of growing pure sativas indoors and out doors and you always have some excuse to put my weed down from its indoor grown to its not grown in the tropics lol but you forget that the key to good cannabis is GENETICS. Haze was grown and breed in California far from the tropics and yet its said to be the strongest.
not sure what you are getting at here other than another rave about how long you have grown for ,
yay good for you , dont hurt your arm patting yourself on the back so much buddy ,
and i wasnt putting your weed down ,
i didnt even mention your weed man , you have a complex there i think ,
its well known that cannabis that hails from tropical regions ,
grows best in those regions , and is hard to replicate out of them and particularly indoors,
this is not a theory i have , its a well known fact and true of many things other than cannabis also ....
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Hi Johnny i would love to read your haze story if you ever feel like posting /shearing it mate.
G
Guest
Did you breed tom hills haze?
funkyhorse
Well-known member
I dont know if it helps but anyway...
The first time I read Johnny Chicago claiming haze is 50% hay without growing the strain, I thought he was joking or being sarcastic
I am running Seedsman Haze from my original old pack and from Madmac repro
From my old Seedsman Haze pack so far I have one plant still sexing after 90 days in flower not showing much resin, 3 girls 2 of them resinous and one is not, one boy not resinous at all. The difference between this boy and the boys from Madmac repro is huge. All these boys from MadMac repro without exceptions are very resinous, the most resinous males of any strain I have. These males have resin on the stems, you can see it with your naked eye. As MadMac said, you can lick them and get high from them.
It is my first time running full packs and it makes a huge difference than sprouting 2-3 seeds.
What I am seeing from old and new commercial stock and privately shared strains, is that real quality is found in the private work with some lucky exception coming from old commercial stock made from passionate breeders, the new stock is really sad, commercial selections seem to tend to discard any long flowering plant with total disregard for effects and quality. Mellow and mild hyped up plants is what I have seen from commercial releases, very dissapointing. The list is long. Not to talk about all these landrace banks that seem to be preserving intersex individuals and very low quality plants. Reports are showing that different environments give different results, but the only consistent reporting from different environments growing landrace stuff is that those strains are intersex big time
People with passion for the plant are selecting for effects and quality. From the private share I am seeing selected plants and uniformity which I could not find in commercial strains. It seems selection is key in order to get decency
The commercial stuff is very dissapointing, I see phenotype carnivals to the point it doesnt seem to be the same strain. Unstable feminized plants or unstable regular crossed with unstable regular. F1's are a total rarity.
Seed banks seem to be more worried to be copied than in doing a decent job providing a worked strain, that is the reason they release unstable unworked F2/F3 strains?
The first time I read Johnny Chicago claiming haze is 50% hay without growing the strain, I thought he was joking or being sarcastic
I am running Seedsman Haze from my original old pack and from Madmac repro
From my old Seedsman Haze pack so far I have one plant still sexing after 90 days in flower not showing much resin, 3 girls 2 of them resinous and one is not, one boy not resinous at all. The difference between this boy and the boys from Madmac repro is huge. All these boys from MadMac repro without exceptions are very resinous, the most resinous males of any strain I have. These males have resin on the stems, you can see it with your naked eye. As MadMac said, you can lick them and get high from them.
It is my first time running full packs and it makes a huge difference than sprouting 2-3 seeds.
What I am seeing from old and new commercial stock and privately shared strains, is that real quality is found in the private work with some lucky exception coming from old commercial stock made from passionate breeders, the new stock is really sad, commercial selections seem to tend to discard any long flowering plant with total disregard for effects and quality. Mellow and mild hyped up plants is what I have seen from commercial releases, very dissapointing. The list is long. Not to talk about all these landrace banks that seem to be preserving intersex individuals and very low quality plants. Reports are showing that different environments give different results, but the only consistent reporting from different environments growing landrace stuff is that those strains are intersex big time
People with passion for the plant are selecting for effects and quality. From the private share I am seeing selected plants and uniformity which I could not find in commercial strains. It seems selection is key in order to get decency
The commercial stuff is very dissapointing, I see phenotype carnivals to the point it doesnt seem to be the same strain. Unstable feminized plants or unstable regular crossed with unstable regular. F1's are a total rarity.
Seed banks seem to be more worried to be copied than in doing a decent job providing a worked strain, that is the reason they release unstable unworked F2/F3 strains?
CannaRed
Cannabinerd
I second this.
I'd like to hear about your selections and how you were able to inbreed the hay to a lower percentage. Looks like you do excellent work. What are your thoughts on inbreeding being detrimental to OHaze?
JohnnyChicago
Well-known member
You are right, bro. But even like that, the 50% will be like hay compared to the 5% or the 1%. So special these are ...
I need to change attitude, I know...
But I have seen the same all the others before me.
There is no reason I should have seen something else
When you look at Star Crash's ibl, you see how frosty inbred OH can get, when it has NOT been bred for frost.
You can also straight select for frost.
But it's better to separate the lines first...
Simply take the best 5%. Preserve only that. And most of the time, most of the hay will be gone.
But at the same time, almost all the rest of the cake will be lost too.
So here too, I can confirm what has always been said before me.
Much easier outcrossing the Haze than trying to inbreed it.
But the best 0-1% crossed to the best 20%, often do perform better than the best 5% to the best 5%.
So that there is a lot more room and possibilities than one could think.
But you need first to find your 1%.
HEMPY my Haze story would be too long. Began 30 years ago when I got a bag of Haze19 from my cousin, that my uncle did not like becasue it was to cerebral and strong for him. That was only few years before Nevils incense Hazes invasion
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Agreed...but then original haze once taken to holland also becomes not the same....its had kerlan and thai blood put into it....so.....
Original haze is original haze, then if someone sold o.haze x thai or o.haze x kerala as pure original haze is another story ... There are also those who sold skunk / haze or afghan / haze as pure haze ....
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Hempy are you kidding me? Reread your quote ... Sam says they made the cross with thai and indian but it wasn't as good as pure haze ....
Lots of people are in such a hurry they don't have the patience to work with Sativas/Hazes let alone grow some. All I see are people wanting quick results, there after that instant gratification. Plants that take 90-120 days to finish aren't even considered which is a shame. How many dispensers carry quality Sativa flowers in the USA "ZERO". Most are some sort of cookie or similar hybrids. I'd say most if not all of the flowers I grew up growing/smoking were Sativa/haze hybrids with that occasional Indica harvest. The Indicas did not have the flavors we all loved.. Today everyone is stuck on all these bland cookie hybrids, sure there potent but not much else.. More people need to do the work with Sativas to bring back what we've lost. I'm off to a great start .
.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
So if the Haze brothers have different story's to each other how do you or others know whats what ?.
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