The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

[milkyjoe]

If it is clay it is going to have plenty of p and K in it, Ca depends on what the rock it formed from was. But do chuck some peat in there when you till for the carbon. A tea or innoculant, something to get biology going down there would not be a bad idea either.

I would not be too worried about amending that soil other than gypsum CaSO4 which will allow minerals from the mound to leach into that soil which will open it up and allow roots to grow there.

You guys are lucky to be able to grow the plants as tall as you want.

 

[Cep]

I love everything about growing BD. I also have always done my starts from seeds b/c of root mass, and ability to start earlier. So my plan right now is to go up to a dispensary in Arcata (6 hours away) to purchase Humboldt Seen Organization Blue Dream Seeds. After all of my own research, this seems to be my best bet.

How'd you navigate that jungle?

If you love blue dream you might not want to buy from Humboldt Seed Organisation. I grew out one that came as a freebie and it was nothing like the clones you can find. I believe they are S1's but mine was skunky and stoney not fruity and energetic. It also grew like a grape vine. A couple other options to look at if you must go with seeds are Azure Haze and Crater Lake V4. I'd recommend just running clones however.

 

[Stank J.P.]

Thank you everyone for this amazing thread! Lets go in '14. Where is the best place to send a soil sample for analysis?

 

[Madjag]

Thank you everyone for this amazing thread! Lets go in '14. Where is the best place to send a soil sample for analysis?

By far, a great company with fast service and good prices:

Logan Labs: http://loganlabs.com/index.html

Prices: http://loganlabs.com/doc/LoganBrochure.pdf

Sample report: http://loganlabs.com/doc/Soil-Report-Sample.pdf

 

[Backyard Farmer]

I would skip the complicated shit from the rev. Way too much going on there. Like milky and I have said, just till it up where you want to build a mound, just that will activate the biology in the native soil by aeration. Throw down your potting soil because he has it, if you want to get wild throw down some gypsum and keep piling.

 

[NorCalDreaming]

By far, a great company with fast service and good prices

Working with some new people and that's who they recommend. Nice to someone someone like you throw their name out there

 

[bamboogardner]

A couple other options to look at if you must go with seeds are Azure Haze and Crater Lake V4.

How did the Crater Lake's do for you Cep?

 

[cannascholar]

Hey Prop are they still chargin 200 a yd? I had some success with their soil but am really not sure since so much is out there. Black gold and adding amendments seems like a good option. Is Sanctuary's Empire Builder soil any good?

How are you guys planning to deal with bugs? With the increasing stories of root aphids in bagged and bulk soil it is definitely something for us all to worry about. Myself I'll run several pesticides early on followed by predator mites, nematodes, and og biowar.


Don't bother going to Patient Resource for their weak BD seeds. Humboldt Seed Organization left a sample of all the gear and the BD seemed watered down while their cookies and Purple Trainwreck was OK. At 24 or so seeds for $80 they're nearly half the price of Ganja Rebel but is certainly better quality.


Who's getting ready for light dep already? I know I am these hot drought days excite me as much as they worry me. Filling water bags whenever I get free time.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

LOL thats a good way to decide

 

[Yes4Prop215]

its down to 198 a yard lol, better get over there early if you do he's already got a backlog of 2000 yards. you won't have any issues with root aphids or bugs with norcal blend, it costs more but will pay for itself over the course of a few seasons. i might still grab some black gold to top dress the norcal blend…gonna be laying down lots of worm juice teas over the next few months. empire builder is garbage, if you want to check out a pretty good bagged soil try vermifire in olivehurst they got pretty good deals on pallets and my starts really like it.

dave royal is super anti manure and even guano, says to forget about pumping the soil full of amendments and just focus on building up that micro herd and getting the plants 80% of their nutrients through foliar spray. any thoughts? i know I'm skipping manure but i like to use some guano top dress in june it helps keep the plants real green and vigorous before they get ready to transition from veg to flower.

 

[NorCalDreaming]

dave royal is super anti manure and even guano, says to forget about pumping the soil full of amendments and just focus on building up that micro herd and getting the plants 80% of their nutrients through foliar spray. any thoughts? i know I'm skipping manure but i like to use some guano top dress in june it helps keep the plants real green and vigorous before they get ready to transition from veg to flower.

I remember Veg n Out, when he was here, saying to build your 'battery' in the soil so it lasts the season and that foliars were bells and whistles. From that, and other things he said, I got the soil mix was more important than foliar applications and using foliars on plants in a 'bad' mix could be counterproductive as you're attempting to push a plant when the soil can't really keep up. Just my interpretation.

What you're saying about the 80% thing is in alignment with what the new people I'm working with are talking about. Simply start with a decent balanced soil, whatever that is as I don't have the info yet, get the soil to fire off with some fertigation then switch the program to basically foliars only through the season. Let the symbiotic relationship between the plant and microbial life deal with things.

I dunno...just where I understand things as of today.

 

[milkyjoe]

The question becomes if you are relying 80% on foliars...are you ready to feed foliars through flower? The single biggest issue is getting Ca into the buds themselves...if it ain't in the soil are you going to feed it all the way through.

imo, get everything in the soil and foliar feed in veg to increase the plant energy...so it then feeds the soil sugars, which then takes you home.

 

[NorCalDreaming]

Milkyjoe I hear that, understand and wonder some of the same things myself. We'll see.

 

[HorseMouth]

I'm working hard on my Light Dep. already. Every time I clean out the chicken coup of feathers, Cedar/juniper wood chip bedding and poop, it's going into the wooden raised beds on top of rototilled and amended ground.

This year I have 2 greenhouses so I'm going for a July, Aug and Sept. Light Dep harvest. Which means the clones I took on the New Moon January 1st are the first set of 12 going in the ground in May.

I'm cloning tomorrow (the second new moon of jan.) a ton of clones and picking the best 40 of 100, then wittling it down to the best 24 of those to light dep this summer. Those will be the August harvest and Sept. harvest plants.

I'll run a thread, or at the very least keep pictures moving in my public albums. I starting one for 2014 a couple of weeks ago.

The key for light dep is truly having the space and time to Veg plants out as big as you can get them, then dropping them in a suitable and weather timely situation.

My Favorite time frame is starting a greenhouse on 12/12 on June 25th (a couple days after the longest day of the year) and harvesting around the last week of August.

This year I'll have that one schedule and a greenhouse to serve double duty for July and Sept.

Peace

 

[NorCalDreaming]

its down to 198 a yard lol, better get over there early if you do he's already got a backlog of 2000 yards.

May not be practical yet Full Circle Compost in Minden, NV offers their Garden Soil + compost for under $50 a yard. In 1 yard supersacks you're looking at $85. Then you've got shipping. Supposedly they got 300 lbs of heirloom tomatoes in a fresh 4' x 4' bed with 4 plants. They'll send you an assay. They're closed during the week now and available on Saturdays. Yeah canna a bit different than tomatoes regarding requirements. Just FYI stuff regarding FCC.

From FCC site...

CARSON VALLEY AND TAHOE AREAS $75/hr.

FOR 10+ YARDS, WE CAN HIRE AN OUTSIDE TRUCKER:
$125/HR FOR MOUNTAIN ROADS, $115/HR. FOR FLATLAND

 

[Yes4Prop215]

I remember Veg n Out, when he was here, saying to build your 'battery' in the soil so it lasts the season and that foliars were bells and whistles. From that, and other things he said, I got the soil mix was more important than foliar applications and using foliars on plants in a 'bad' mix could be counterproductive as you're attempting to push a plant when the soil can't really keep up. Just my interpretation.

yea i think that subject was based around so many people foliar spraying with PPD and cal25 that the plant would overgrow its root system to to speak.

but yeah I'm not saying dave is the god of soil building, everyone has their little tweaks and methods. but most growers aren't doing real AG testing to see if they are getting bang for their buck, yea you might pull 8 lbs off a plant that you dumped 1k of amendments on, but could you have still gotten that 8 lbs with 100 bucks worth of amendments?

I'm still awaiting on my soil test results, what are some ways to get more CA into the plant without relying on foliars.

 

[OrganicBuds]

its down to 198 a yard lol, better get over there early if you do he's already got a backlog of 2000 yards. you won't have any issues with root aphids or bugs with norcal blend, it costs more but will pay for itself over the course of a few seasons. i might still grab some black gold to top dress the norcal blend…gonna be laying down lots of worm juice teas over the next few months. empire builder is garbage, if you want to check out a pretty good bagged soil try vermifire in olivehurst they got pretty good deals on pallets and my starts really like it.

dave royal is super anti manure and even guano, says to forget about pumping the soil full of amendments and just focus on building up that micro herd and getting the plants 80% of their nutrients through foliar spray. any thoughts? i know I'm skipping manure but i like to use some guano top dress in june it helps keep the plants real green and vigorous before they get ready to transition from veg to flower.

but yeah I'm not saying dave is the god of soil building, everyone has their little tweaks and methods. but most growers aren't doing real AG testing to see if they are getting bang for their buck, yea you might pull 8 lbs off a plant that you dumped 1k of amendments on, but could you have still gotten that 8 lbs with 100 bucks worth of amendments?

I'm still awaiting on my soil test results, what are some ways to get more CA into the plant without relying on foliars.

Last season I subscribed to the method of building your soil and let the foliars do the rest. I must say, I was very impressed with this method and I didn't spend any money on fertigation. My foliar reg was Pure Protein Dry, Cal25, Kelp, soft rock phosphate, compost teas, and neem or other organic pest and mildew deterrent. If I would have amended the EWSF Norcal mix I could have had a great year, however I still yielded several plants close to 5 elbows.

Post up those soil results when you get them please.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Are you getting the tissue tested to determine what elements need amending? When I did this work I determined that the mix needed more trace and ultra trace elements and actually all the micro and macros are dialed in...

This year I have worked a few other changes out mostly on what nutrient sources I want to use.

I've been working with Dave Royal for years and the NorCal soil blend is dialed in to where the only thing stopping you is environment and how much soil you have...in other words if u want a 10 lb average u need 15 ft centers and at least 10' square mounds with full sun and genetics like blue dream or salmon creek.

On to genetics, what are y'all growing? I'm doing mostly seed this year I'll mix in a few DOG and Cherry Pie, and bomb threat for the head.

 

[milkyjoe]

I was not saying Dave's soil lacked anything, I don't know. I was just thinking you were going to rely on foliar to feed the plant and I think you need a balanced soil going in. Then some foliar in veg to jack up the plants photosynthesis so more sugar gets sent to the soil, making more of soil's nutrients available.

What you would use to up Ca would depend on the overall numbers and what you might be over or under on besides Ca.

I probably just misread the question.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Milky I was talkin to organic buds he said he needed more p and k

We are on the same page it's all bout the soil