The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

[Stank J.P.]

Howdy everyone, I have been searching socal clubs looking for some good seeds and have been unsuccessful. Just wondering if anyone knows where I can get some beans and strain selection for trying to go big (moving up to 300's.) Also I found a local compost and topsoil place to replace bagged soil and would like you guys opinion on the sound of their mix: screened soil, compost, humus, rice hulls and I would add the Tom Hill amendments found on page 1. I figure if I can't get good beans I'll run blue dream and chem d clones to fill up those 300's. Lemme know what y'all think.
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[Cep]

as for micorrhiza fungi I've heard mixed reactions. I think even Tom mentioned his doubts in this thread. would appriciate some thoughts about micorrhiza.

In my opinion they are overhyped. Its likely that most soils people are working with here are bacterial dominated anyway. I only brought it up because it looked like you were growing in the boonies and had a hard time hauling amendments and water in. In which case your plants might benefit from mycorrhizal associations. I think your best bet would be to grow smaller plants if you're struggling to water them. The end quality will be higher. Cut in some black gold or other soil that has high organic matter.

Micorrhizal inoculants will still help in low P soil conditions though. If you do try them, a few things to consider:
-look for the highest propagules(spores) per gram
-Glomus intraradices and mosseae are most common but cannabis might benefit from others like Gigaspora, Acaulospora, etc.
-No Trichoderma (it consumes other fungi and at the rate it grows would likely eat the other species in the inoculant)
-Trichoderma alone can also be great for plants though: its used in the raspberry industry to protect roots, but its very common and likely already in your soil
-Inoculation will be practically useless if you plan to use liquid bloom ferts

Best of luck, always lift with your legs

 

[Tiami]

Just want to clarify it's not a silver bullet for your problem. From what I understand it's benefits will accumulate over time regrading building soil in a situation like yours.

keeping the soil moist is the only silver bullet. still I think it was good call and it's cheap.

In my opinion they are overhyped. Its likely that most soils people are working with here are bacterial dominated anyway. I only brought it up because it looked like you were growing in the boonies and had a hard time hauling amendments and water in. In which case your plants might benefit from mycorrhizal associations. I think your best bet would be to grow smaller plants if you're struggling to water them. The end quality will be higher. Cut in some black gold or other soil that has high organic matter.

Micorrhizal inoculants will still help in low P soil conditions though. If you do try them, a few things to consider:
-look for the highest propagules(spores) per gram
-Glomus intraradices and mosseae are most common but cannabis might benefit from others like Gigaspora, Acaulospora, etc.
-No Trichoderma (it consumes other fungi and at the rate it grows would likely eat the other species in the inoculant)
-Trichoderma alone can also be great for plants though: its used in the raspberry industry to protect roots, but its very common and likely already in your soil
-Inoculation will be practically useless if you plan to use liquid bloom ferts

Best of luck, always life with your legs

my plan is to start Sativas (Panama and Golden Tiger) maybe a bit later than last year, mid march. one of each goes into 500 liter (130 U.S. gallon) hole/container. month or so later I'll start Bodhi's hybrids which go into 65 gallon holes, half of size of bigger ones. I really enjoy growing these plants, getting them big is important part of that.

that Golden Tiger on picture I posted was 1,5lb plant. if she was planted just few meters awey she would've been at least 2lb's. she was planted under pines and that spot didn't get much direct mid-day sunlight from middle of october. with a summer storm or two all plants I had would get huge. but it looks like we can't count on those showers anymore here.

I can't get Black Gold I'm not from U.S. we can only get Compo Sana and alike here and it's all expensive. prices are insane for all agricultural stuff compared to U.S. from what I've seen. I guess that's normal for a country that imports everything. lots of pelleted manure goes into those holes that's why I think peat might be better amandmant, long term. also it's a lot cheaper than soil. I'll try to get some compost. what are your thoughts about plastic in holes or you think to make simple holes would be better idea? dimensions?

as for micorrhizal fungi there's just one or two companys offering it. they don't state exactly which strains are in inoculant. product are defined as Arbuscular Micorrhiza, Eckto Micorrhiza and Ericko Micorrhiza. as for liquid fertilazers I plan to use, I'm quite reserved and lazy about it. I like to have that stuff burried in ground. I got some easy N+Ca vegging fertilizer and 2-3-4 organic for bloom.

thanks for sharing your thoughts. take care guys.

 

[Sir D]

On the lava rock pumice front has anyone gotten a lot of pumice at one time and were there any worms found in it? I got a yard of lava rock and it was loaded with earth worms!

Hey is anyone gonna post up their soil mixes this year? So far I'm working compost/earthworm castings, lava or pumice, and peat for the start and then I shall amend! To be continued............ To the bat cave!

 

[Cep]

Keep in mind that with plastic you'll have the roots spiraling at the edge just like in nursery pots. This is why people use fiber pots instead.

Arbuscular is the product that would be of use. Ecto mycorrhizal fungi associate with trees. Ericko? Maybe thats Ericoid (association with plants in the blueberry family)? Anyway if you get the arbuscular product it will most likely have Glomus species.

 

[Lightweight]

Hey guys, has anybody here used the Hortonova trellis netting in an area with fairly steady wind? And if so, did the netting cut into the branches on your plants? Thanks for any info.

 

[OrganicBuds]

I get lots of wind, and the netting didn't hurt my plants at all. Especially if you tie the pants to the netting using plant tape. Good luck.

 

[Stank J.P.]

Sorry to keep on about this, last try on some input honestly. The local compost place offers a mix consisting of: screened topsoil, humus, compost and rice hulls. Would it sound like a decent mix if I added: Bone meal, chicken manure, gypsum, and possibly some peat moss?

 

[Backyard Farmer]

It sounds good on paper maybe but what does it test out to start with and did you do the math on each amendment to see what you were going to be adding then retest after amending? Best of luck

 

[milkyjoe]

yep...and it is going to lack trace and ultra trace stuff...at a minimum get some kelp in there. Plants use enzymes to convert sugar into longer chain compounds...reactions that would not occur in your lifetime can happen instantly when enzymes catalyze the reaction. Enzymes rely on co factors...those co factors are, inevitably, trace or ultra trace minerals.

 

[NorCalDreaming]

yep...and it is going to lack trace and ultra trace stuff...at a minimum get some kelp in there. Plants use enzymes to convert sugar into longer chain compounds...reactions that would not occur in your lifetime can happen instantly when enzymes catalyze the reaction. Enzymes rely on co factors...those co factors are, inevitably, trace or ultra trace minerals.

Important stuff right there about enzymes and cofactors. Without those trace and ultra trace minerals your plant will never express it's full potential for yield and potency. It's also about general plant health and immune function which also includes pest and disease resistance. If you have a lot of excess incomplete carbohydrates and proteins floating around in your plant you'll have more problems and your plant will never be as good as it can be.

 

[Stank J.P.]

Thank you all for the responses. I was starting to think that nobody likes me... lol. This kelp you speak of is a powder? Any special brand or type I should be looking for? How much would you add to a 300 gallon mix?

 

[Yes4Prop215]

Bye Bye Dumbpots!!

so mound people, having some dicussion with people regarding trenches/mounds. some are saying that with dense compacted native clay soil, the amended special soil can just be laid on top and that drainage wont be an issue because the water will hit the hard clay and drain off the top surface and out the side of the mound.

others are saying that i should put a layer of pumice or sandy loam as a barrier between the native clay because the native clay will get muddy and soggy and this can lead to root rot issues.

not sure what route to go with here. i saved 60 yards of soil out of the smarties thats mostly 2 year old fox farms ocean forest that i dumped a bunch of wormjuice, EWC, and teas on last crop, awaiting a soil test on them currently. i was gonna use this old soil as a barrier between the native and the approx 100 yards of norcal blend soil i was going to top them off with. im figuring a yard of the Fox Farms on the bottom topped by 2 yards of norcal blend maybe cut with a little black gold for a total of 3 yards per mound.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Sounds like a good plan, just rototill the native soil up to break up the top layer and you're good to go.

It's even better if you rototill it and then dump the ocean forest on top and till it again to mix the native and ffof together then put your new mounds on top of that..You'll be winning in 2014.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Bye Bye Dumbpots!!
View Image

so mound people, having some dicussion with people regarding trenches/mounds. some are saying that with dense compacted native clay soil, the amended special soil can just be laid on top and that drainage wont be an issue because the water will hit the hard clay and drain off the top surface and out the side of the mound.

others are saying that i should put a layer of pumice or sandy loam as a barrier between the native clay because the native clay will get muddy and soggy and this can lead to root rot issues.

not sure what route to go with here. i saved 60 yards of soil out of the smarties thats mostly 2 year old fox farms ocean forest that i dumped a bunch of wormjuice, EWC, and teas on last crop, awaiting a soil test on them currently. i was gonna use this old soil as a barrier between the native and the approx 100 yards of norcal blend soil i was going to top them off with. im figuring a yard of the Fox Farms on the bottom topped by 2 yards of norcal blend maybe cut with a little black gold for a total of 3 yards per mound.

Regarding drainage, to add my 0.02c worth... Here in Spain, by far the buggest plants are grown on the Alluvial soils beside rivers. 2m deep soil with gravel below and a water current running through it. People are harvesting multiple LB plants with zero soil preparation, just good soil with fresh water running underneath. The NFT Hydro system was (allegedly) developed after observing corn (Maize) plants growing supersized at the side of a field where the roots of those plants were able to dangle into a stream.

 

[OrganicBuds]

Sounds like a good plan, just rototill the native soil up to break up the top layer and you're good to go.

It's even better if you rototill it and then dump the ocean forest on top and till it again to mix the native and ffof together then put your new mounds on top of that..You'll be winning in 2014.

Great advice, sounds like somebody that has done this before.


Yes4prop215 - Are you going to further amend the NorCalMix? This is from the EWSF right? If so, I would add some extra calcium and potassium. Even the N was a little light, but with extra foliar and top dressing EWC I was able to keep that under control. Are you going to get a soil test done first? If I were to do it over again this year, I would get a soil test strait from Dave, then ask him to amend it according to the soil tests. Good luck on your grow this season, you seem to get WAY better every season, and now you got heavy machinery. (JEALOUS!)

EDIT: I know most in this thread would frown on my next advice but it has always worked for me in the past. I got this from the Rev, and the compost I use is Biodynamic steer compost.

Rev’s Custom Bottom Layer Manure Mix
1 gallon composted steer manure
1 gallon perlite (small nugget size)
2 cups (heaping) coconut coir fiber (well rinsed with fresh water)
1 tablespoon greensand
1 tablespoon kelp meal
1 tablespoon ground oyster shell
2 tablespoons granular rock phosphate


I would throw a layer of this on top of, or in your old fox farm soil, before your new soil. The idea behind this is the roots have to be established before even reaching this area, and once they do flower should be right around the corner or already started. It even lasts several seasons with the addition of greensand, and granular rock phosphate. The Rev recommends no more than 5-10% total soil volume.

 

[napalisherpa]

Hi Guys. Thanks for having me in your discussion. I've been lurking this site/thread for the past four years, and have gained enormous amounts of crucial information, and I sincerely thank everyone for their contributions.
So on to my situation. Last year I grew 40 blue dream seeds bought from ganja rebel. I germinated the seeds mid march, and planted the earliest sexed plants into trenches on 4/20. Luckily with the mild spring, the plants exploded and were beyond any expectation I had. My main mistake was planting the girls so close together. Everything grew into everything, and the bottom half of most plants had to be pruned out. We still averaged over 5 per plant, and hit dimensions of 15' tall and 10' wide. I feel we could have done half the amount of plants and still achieved the same end numbers. Lots of tea, guano, and foiler spraying cal 25 seemed to do the trick. here are the girls a few weeks into flower. 30 gallon trash can for scale...


happy to share any info from the year, as well as any idea's for this upcoming season. 90% of what I know I gained from you all!

I really enjoyed Ganja Rebels genetics last year. The biggest plants I've ever seen in person. As stated by Ganja there was a bit of variance within the strain, but it was all great smoke. I would like more stable genetics this year, but I would hands down grow the same GR BD seeds again. After waiting for his release, and the realization that its not happening this year, I'm now getting my beans in order. I love everything about growing BD. I also have always done my starts from seeds b/c of root mass, and ability to start earlier. So my plan right now is to go up to a dispensary in Arcata (6 hours away) to purchase Humboldt Seen Organization Blue Dream Seeds. After all of my own research, this seems to be my best bet. But I wanted to consult with the pros before making a big decision like this.

Thanks so much for the feed back ya'll!!!

 

[napalisherpa]

Bye Bye Dumbpots!!
View Image

so mound people, having some dicussion with people regarding trenches/mounds. some are saying that with dense compacted native clay soil, the amended special soil can just be laid on top and that drainage wont be an issue because the water will hit the hard clay and drain off the top surface and out the side of the mound.

others are saying that i should put a layer of pumice or sandy loam as a barrier between the native clay because the native clay will get muddy and soggy and this can lead to root rot issues.

Here's my experience from last year. I had always used "smart pots" but switched to trenches. My trenches were set in hard clay soil, 3' deep, 4' wide, and 50' long. They worked amazing, but I did have some major draining issues. The problem was the the water pooled up at the bottom, especially at the low point of the trench, because the bottom of the trenches slopped. I actually lost a couple plants to overwatering in the worst area. I would definitely recommend a barrier layer if doing trenches. This year I'm going to do raised beds, and individual planter boxes as opposed to putting 8 plants in a long trench. Even with the overwater/lack of drainage, the trenches far surpassed any smart pot I've seen. I was blown away how far the roots grew in to the native soil I was amending. It seemed like I doubled my root zone using tea, and top dressing surrounding soil.

 

[milkyjoe]

Thank you all for the responses. I was starting to think that nobody likes me... lol. This kelp you speak of is a powder? Any special brand or type I should be looking for? How much would you add to a 300 gallon mix?

Just plain ol kelp meal. I get it at the local feed and seed store...like $60 for 40 lbs. I would use 15 lbs per yard of soil...so 1.5 x 15 is like 22-23 pounds per 300 gallons.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

awesome plants nepal! man ganja rebel genetics just beast in the outdoor garden, wish i ran some for 2013 but definately gonna give some a shot in 2014. he should have a bunch of those BD crosses still on seedbay have you looked? im looking for his headband and OGxCD crosses because the potency and bag appeal on them is some of the best ive seen for open sun herb in the triangle.

thanks for the pointers yall, gonna go see my soil guy this week and figure out a game plan. yea OB im going with EWSF again this year and definately want to amend this year as well. i want to stay away from steer manure this year however, any other alternatives?

interesting about trenches, makes sense they would pool up. thats why dave @ EWSF and a few other people are recommending no need to dig any trenches, just dump the mounds on top of the native top soil, which like backyard says will be tilled and mixed! just wondering if there needs to be some drainage amendment laid on top of the native soil.