The 2020 Presidential Election

[armedoldhippy]

Considering that guns kill people and the ten commandments state plainly "Thou shall not kill", it does seem ridiculously hypocritical.

latest interpretation says "thou shall not commit murder". not an insignificant difference.i have talked to "true believers" in the earlier version that said they would not kill even in their own defense. fuck that...

 

[armedoldhippy]

the whole "take away guns" argument is a strawman lol no one is coming to take all your guns.

a majority of Americans want gun REFORM including a universal background program, not confiscation lol. as well as an increase in our mental health services.

true, but there are those that see "common sense reform" as just the next logical step in their drive to...you guessed it, confiscation. "an intelligent victor will, whenever possible, deliver his demands to the vanquished in installments." meaning that it is easier to get someone to eat a big turd by giving it to them one nibble at a time...

 

[armedoldhippy]

Nobody has a sensible policy. I have to agree the NRA should not have any leverage at all. And making quality healthcare available to everyone should result in less mentally unstable people killing themselves or others.

No perfect solution. Time machine to fix gun show loop holes and the lift on the assault rifle ban? Cats out of the bag.

No point in trying to take guns from the sane people until we devise a way to get the nuts to hand over theirs first.

only leverage the NRA has is because they represent MILLIONS of gun owners in this country. it is not the NRA that politicians fear, but those voters that they represent. there IS no "gun show loophole". those that have the irrational fear of firearms babble about it, but it is protected by law because there is (and should not be imho) a restriction on selling privately owned guns to other citizens unless they are known to be barred from owning guns. most private (not ALL) sales are between folks that know each other. if you know Bob beats his wife, and sell him a gun after his wife has taken out an order of protection, then you SHOULD be legally liable if he shoots her. but given how inept LEO & govt in general are at "protecting" us, i look at universal background checks as nothing more than a way to keep tabs on who owns what until time to take them away. one bite at a time...

 

[armedoldhippy]

Imagine getting blown away from a 12g shotgun because you decided not to protect yourself that day.

hell has frozen over, Boogie, and Satan is renting skates. i agree with you...

 

[h.h.]

Every time a gun stops a gun it becomes an excuse for more guns.
These were trained security guards. At least one an ex cop.
Two of them died.
That didn’t really work out that well.

 

[armedoldhippy]

Every time a gun stops a gun it becomes an excuse for more guns.
These were trained security guards. At least one an ex cop.
Two of them died.
That didn’t really work out that well.

imagine just how well it works out if they were NOT there...for the killer.

 

[h.h.]

imagine just how well it works out if they were NOT there...for the killer.

If he had a knife, they’d hit him with a table.
You only present half the scenario.

The church had “trained” security.
Trained enough to get themselves killed.
It really didn’t work out that well.

 

[h.h.]

Are we gonna defend our embassy?

 

[White Beard]

Would you post the video of him saying that stuff? Or is it kind of a joke?

I have heard that the only reasons Christians support Trump, is not because they respect him as a person, but, because he doesn't attack them, or their moral values on a daily basis, like the far left does.

So post those videos as proof, and Ill share them with some Christian buddies

Christian support for republicans hinges on Republican support for overturning Roe v Wade and packing SCOTUS and the judiciary with hard-line *political* ‘conservatives’ in order to ‘force America back onto Gawd’s path’...and that same bunch would GLADLY replace the Constitution with the Bible as the law of the land if they could do it without nosy people taking offense....

Christianity has done a complete about-face in the US since the hippies, civil rights, and Roe v Wade, so - as a long time Christian from the ‘50s - it’s clear to me that we are in a POST-Christian world: one in which “Jesus” is the official brand and figurehead (a la Col. Sanders) and everything else is keeping up appearances and maintaining control.

Happy new year!

 

[med4u]

Gotta love that shit...parishioner
Explodes gunman's head with a 45 from 50ft
Helly trigger control from a unsupported standing position under stress....True American Heroes

 

[White Beard]

true, but there are those that see "common sense reform" as just the next logical step in their drive to...you guessed it, confiscation. "an intelligent victor will, whenever possible, deliver his demands to the vanquished in installments." meaning that it is easier to get someone to eat a big turd by giving it to them one nibble at a time...

I’ve been hearing it practically all my life, Dude, and you don’t have to believe me, but while there are people who DO want confiscation, I think their number is dramatically less than the number of well-armed individuals who dream of open war on liberals and brown people in the streets. Based on my personal knowledge of both groups, neither of which is shy about saying *exactly* what they think.

Of the two groups, I’m much more concerned about the group that dreams of saving America single-handedly with their bag of guns...

only leverage the NRA has is because they represent MILLIONS of gun owners in this country. it is not the NRA that politicians fear, but those voters that they represent. there IS no "gun show loophole". those that have the irrational fear of firearms babble about it, but it is protected by law because there is (and should not be imho) a restriction on selling privately owned guns to other citizens unless they are known to be barred from owning guns. most private (not ALL) sales are between folks that know each other. if you know Bob beats his wife, and sell him a gun after his wife has taken out an order of protection, then you SHOULD be legally liable if he shoots her. but given how inept LEO & govt in general are at "protecting" us, i look at universal background checks as nothing more than a way to keep tabs on who owns what until time to take them away. one bite at a time...

With respect, I believe the NRA does not “represent” millions of gun-owners/NRA members. I believe the organization has been transformed into a tool for social pressure and political donations (their “clenched fist of freedom” bit was outright agitation and right up to the line of incitement) - they represent the firearms industry exclusively, the rest is window-dressing: if you haven’t, check and see who makes up the governing board, and who actually controls the organization.

One of the most amazing and troubling things to me about US life/politics/government is the so-called ‘right’ assertion of - nay, whole obsession with - firearms as a means to safety. I know lots of people who go armed all the time, and I don’t mean they have a baseball bat in the trunk. Over the decades, I’ve consistently observed that those most insistent on never leaving home without a firearm have a tendency to belligerence when they are out and armed: they are much more likely to adopt territorial body language, be socially aggressive with strangers in public settings, and be more unwilling to extend respect and courtesy without some ‘display’ from the other.

I’ve owned firearms since I was young. I was raised to treat them as a deadly serious matter; *anything* that struck my dad as cavalier, careless or inattentive cost me shooting privileges. One of the chief magnets for disapproval was any sort of display: showing off a weapon, carrying it without immediate purpose (ie, shooting), or attempting to frighten by pulling it - my dad would have anyone so careless banned from the range as a reckless danger to others. My dad also grew up with firearms, and landed with Patton at Normandy and served in the Bulge as a unit commander. NOT a shrinking violet, or in any doubt about the importance not just of “gun safety” but of personal restraint and discipline in all matters regarding firearms.

Everyone I have seen go casually armed has broken my dad’s basic rules about firearms discipline if I’ve watched them long enough.

Just to contrast, I rarely go armed, and almost never carry a firearm, on me or with me. My experience is that those subtle behavioral shifts I mentioned tend to draw people who are looking for trouble either by projecting belligerence or by projecting fear of approach: on the street, both of those lead to trouble.

The main reason I go unarmed isn’t that I have no doubt of my ability to handle myself and situations. Sure I could be wrong, but if I had a gun I could still be wrong., but might have avoided the situation entirely had I not felt ‘extra safe’ with my friends Smith and Wesson along. I find myself depending on my self for my sense of security, and so far, it has worked flawlessly.

I was stopped by some toughs back in the “street crime 70s” who asked for my money. I grinned big, and asked one to call an ambulance and moved toward the other...turned out those boys didn’t want to work for my money - and that was the end of that.

Citizens stepping in harm’s way to protect others is valiant and worthy of gratitude...but the number of accidental self-shootings dwarfs the number of cases where such citizen action works out.

Just like my hard-shell southern conservative dad, I guess....

Happy New Year to you, my brother - party responsibly enough, ‘k?

 

[xavier7995]

That was a great post WB and summed up my views nicely. I often phrase it that we need less restrictions on the type of weapons and more for responsible use. The bravado and creating a situation where you need a gun rings very true with me.


Hey AOH, do you have any more info on why you say there is no gun show loophole? I really dont know. My understanding is that if you buy a gun off a licensed seller you have to pass a background check. If buying off a private individual that check doesnt need to happen, the seller just needs to not be aware of the fact you can't buy a gun....but they dont need to ask and have no way to verify it. Gun shows bring together private buyers and sellers to conduct the transactions, so you are selling a gun to a stranger without any sort of real check that they aren't crazy pants. It gets sort of tricky as I do think you should be able to sell your gun to your buddy...but how do you allow for that while also preventing folks from selling to random folks.

 

[Zeez]

Christian support for republicans hinges on Republican support for overturning Roe v Wade and packing SCOTUS and the judiciary with hard-line *political* ‘conservatives’ in order to ‘force America back onto Gawd’s path’...and that same bunch would GLADLY replace the Constitution with the Bible as the law of the land if they could do it without nosy people taking offense....

Christianity has done a complete about-face in the US since the hippies, civil rights, and Roe v Wade, so - as a long time Christian from the ‘50s - it’s clear to me that we are in a POST-Christian world: one in which “Jesus” is the official brand and figurehead (a la Col. Sanders) and everything else is keeping up appearances and maintaining control.

Happy new year!

Don't kid yourself. It's all about money and power. Ever been to Vatican City? It oozes money.

I agree about the evolution of christianity but think that it has turned into a protection racket. Doesn't matter how bad people screwed others to get the money. If the church gets a cut then the pearly gates are open.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

https://news.google.com/articles/CA..._qT_CjDltPgCMILcpAY?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

 

[med4u]

I’ve been hearing it practically all my life, Dude, and you don’t have to believe me, but while there are people who DO want confiscation, I think their number is dramatically less than the number of well-armed individuals who dream of open war on liberals and brown people in the streets. Based on my personal knowledge of both groups, neither of which is shy about saying *exactly* what they think.

Of the two groups, I’m much more concerned about the group that dreams of saving America single-handedly with their bag of guns...



With respect, I believe the NRA does not “represent” millions of gun-owners/NRA members. I believe the organization has been transformed into a tool for social pressure and political donations (their “clenched fist of freedom” bit was outright agitation and right up to the line of incitement) - they represent the firearms industry exclusively, the rest is window-dressing: if you haven’t, check and see who makes up the governing board, and who actually controls the organization.

One of the most amazing and troubling things to me about US life/politics/government is the so-called ‘right’ assertion of - nay, whole obsession with - firearms as a means to safety. I know lots of people who go armed all the time, and I don’t mean they have a baseball bat in the trunk. Over the decades, I’ve consistently observed that those most insistent on never leaving home without a firearm have a tendency to belligerence when they are out and armed: they are much more likely to adopt territorial body language, be socially aggressive with strangers in public settings, and be more unwilling to extend respect and courtesy without some ‘display’ from the other.

I’ve owned firearms since I was young. I was raised to treat them as a deadly serious matter; *anything* that struck my dad as cavalier, careless or inattentive cost me shooting privileges. One of the chief magnets for disapproval was any sort of display: showing off a weapon, carrying it without immediate purpose (ie, shooting), or attempting to frighten by pulling it - my dad would have anyone so careless banned from the range as a reckless danger to others. My dad also grew up with firearms, and landed with Patton at Normandy and served in the Bulge as a unit commander. NOT a shrinking violet, or in any doubt about the importance not just of “gun safety” but of personal restraint and discipline in all matters regarding firearms.

Everyone I have seen go casually armed has broken my dad’s basic rules about firearms discipline if I’ve watched them long enough.

Just to contrast, I rarely go armed, and almost never carry a firearm, on me or with me. My experience is that those subtle behavioral shifts I mentioned tend to draw people who are looking for trouble either by projecting belligerence or by projecting fear of approach: on the street, both of those lead to trouble.

The main reason I go unarmed isn’t that I have no doubt of my ability to handle myself and situations. Sure I could be wrong, but if I had a gun I could still be wrong., but might have avoided the situation entirely had I not felt ‘extra safe’ with my friends Smith and Wesson along. I find myself depending on my self for my sense of security, and so far, it has worked flawlessly.

I was stopped by some toughs back in the “street crime 70s” who asked for my money. I grinned big, and asked one to call an ambulance and moved toward the other...turned out those boys didn’t want to work for my money - and that was the end of that.

Citizens stepping in harm’s way to protect others is valiant and worthy of gratitude...but the number of accidental self-shootings dwarfs the number of cases where such citizen action works out.

Just like my hard-shell southern conservative dad, I guess....

Happy New Year to you, my brother - party responsibly enough, ‘k?

Your ol man sounds like a solid citizen...those who may question their ability to practice strict and proper weapon safty... should refrain from carrying in public and should seek out a proper weapon safty coarse....

https://reason.com/2018/04/20/cdc-provides-more-evidence-that-plenty-o/1

 

[h.h.]

Gotta love that shit...parishioner
Explodes gunman's head with a 45 from 50ft
Helly trigger control from a unsupported standing position under stress....True American Heroes

Also an ex cop that had his own shooting range.
He trained the others enough to get themselves killed.

 

[Jellyfish]

Gun shows bring together private buyers and sellers to conduct the transactions, so you are selling a gun to a stranger without any sort of real check that they aren't crazy pants. It gets sort of tricky as I do think you should be able to sell your gun to your buddy...but how do you allow for that while also preventing folks from selling to random folks.

If I buy a gun at a gun show, they always run a BG check.

 

[Cannavore]

The incident in Texas shows that ending gun free zones will save lives, armed citizens stopped a would be mass shooter within seconds.

And you're confident this is true based on what? The one time it actually worked out that way? I'm sure every instance will pan out just like that lol.

 

[xavier7995]

From what I gather its state by state though. @jellyfish

https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-show-laws-by-state-721345

 

['Boogieman']

Also an ex cop that had his own shooting range.
He trained the others enough to get themselves killed.

Did you watch the video? The guy just pulled out a shotgun and started shooting but was taken out immediately. This would be a mass shooting rather than a double homicide if armed citizens were not present.