Tea Article

[FinestKind]

Thanks again, Microbeman, your help with this subject is invaluable.

Scrappy, I remember you well from the EJ sticky... your experience is definitely inspiring. My wife and I practice no-till on our garden; my interest in soil biology runs deeper than the MJ, as well. It just seems so much... easier outdoors, where there's a pretty healthy microbial population in the soil to begin with, and it's easier to make a mess!

If I were to ask you to name one source (book, DVD, web site, forum thread, whatever) that really helped you along this path, what would you say? This can be an open question, come to think of it... Microbeman, I'd like your input, as well!

Thanks again all.

 

[Scrappy4]

One source won't do it for me. I'd start with the stickies, this thread and the fermented extracts thread, and of course the reading list thread has plenty of resources to choose from. There is a long list of posters from this site who have inspired me with their writings too. Like gas can stan, Cootz, JayKush, Microbe man, and many others.

The books, Teaming with Microbes, The One Straw Revolution, and What a Plant Knows would be a good start.

And as always, the posters here are very able and ready to help when you might hit a snag or have detailed questions. Your in good hands here, in fact, not only good but world class.....scrappy

 

[SeaMaiden]

Thanks again, Microbeman, your help with this subject is invaluable.

Scrappy, I remember you well from the EJ sticky... your experience is definitely inspiring. My wife and I practice no-till on our garden; my interest in soil biology runs deeper than the MJ, as well. It just seems so much... easier outdoors, where there's a pretty healthy microbial population in the soil to begin with, and it's easier to make a mess!

If I were to ask you to name one source (book, DVD, web site, forum thread, whatever) that really helped you along this path, what would you say? This can be an open question, come to think of it... Microbeman, I'd like your input, as well!

Thanks again all.

Best primer in my opinion would be Teaming with Microbes. After that I really liked Gaia's Garden, but it's a different lean, doesn't quite stress the full soil biology as its focus is permaculture. Oh, and if you can, may I suggest subscribing to Acres, USA?

Beyond that, make Google Scholar your friend.

Now that I have a good Tablet, I think I would really like to have a USB microscope. That would make it pretty much completely portable, yes?

 

[rrog]

Tablet + USB micro... Wow that's cool.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Here's how we roll in the Shire - Dr. Leonard Hofsteder

 

[Microbeman]

Best primer in my opinion would be Teaming with Microbes. After that I really liked Gaia's Garden, but it's a different lean, doesn't quite stress the full soil biology as its focus is permaculture. Oh, and if you can, may I suggest subscribing to Acres, USA?

Beyond that, make Google Scholar your friend.

Now that I have a good Tablet, I think I would really like to have a USB microscope. That would make it pretty much completely portable, yes?

Most USB scopes are garbage. You can use a USB camera with any microscope.

 

[Microbeman]

Thanks again, Microbeman, your help with this subject is invaluable.

Scrappy, I remember you well from the EJ sticky... your experience is definitely inspiring. My wife and I practice no-till on our garden; my interest in soil biology runs deeper than the MJ, as well. It just seems so much... easier outdoors, where there's a pretty healthy microbial population in the soil to begin with, and it's easier to make a mess!

If I were to ask you to name one source (book, DVD, web site, forum thread, whatever) that really helped you along this path, what would you say? This can be an open question, come to think of it... Microbeman, I'd like your input, as well!

Thanks again all.

If you want the real goods by true scientists these two books are the absolute best written by the world's 'heavy hitters' in my opinion. You'll notice the popular names are not amongst them. You can find some parts of the books here and there for free on the Web.

Modern Soil Microbiology – 2nd edition

http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9780824727499

Table of Contents
Soil Environment, D. Standing and K. Killham
Microbial Phylogeny and Diversity in Soil, V. Torsvik and L. Øvreås
Horizontal Gene Transfer and Microevolution in Soil, K.M. Nielsen, Pål Johnsen, and J.D. van Elsas
Bacteria and Archaea in Soil, J. D. van Elsas, V. Torsvik, A. Hartmann, L. Øvreås, and J.K. Jansson
Fungi in Soil, R.D. Finlay
Protozoa and Other Protista in Soil, M. Clarholm, M. Bonkowsk, and B. Griffiths
Microbial Interactions in Soil, J.D. van Elsas, L. Tam, R.D. Finlay, K. Killham, and J.T. Trevors
Plant-Associated Bacteria—Lifestyle and Molecular Interactions, J. Sørensen and A. Sessitsch
Microorganisms Cycling Soil Nutrients and Their Diversity, J.I. Prosser
Soil Microbial Communities and Global Climate Change—Methanotrophic and Methanogenic Communities as Paradigms, R. Conrad
Methods to Detect and Quantify Bacteria in Soil, O. Nybroe, K.K. Brandt, M.H. Nicolaisen, and J. Sørensen
Analysis of Microbial Communities in Soil Microhabitats using Fluorescence In Situ Hybridization, M. Schmid, M. Rothballer, and A. Hartmann
Functional Characterization of Soil Microbial Communities by Messenger RNA Analysis, S. Sharma, M.K. Anej, and M. Schloter
Molecular Fingerprinting Techniques to Analyze Soil Microbial Communities, M. Oros-Sichler, R. Costa, H. Heuer, and K. Smalla
Detection of Active Bacterial Populations in Soil, T.M. Timms-Wilson, R.I. Griffiths, A.S. Whiteley, J.I. Prosser, and M.J. Bailey
Soil Metagenomics: Exploring and Exploiting the Soil Microbial Gene Pool, S. Sjöling, W. Stafford, and D.A. Cowan
Biosensors to Monitor Soil Health or Toxicity, P.H.B. Poulsen, L. Hestbjerg Hansen, and S.J. Sørensen
Soil Suppressiveness to Plant Diseases, C. Steinberg, V. Edel-Hermann, C. Alabouvette, and P. Lemanceau
Biological Pesticides for Control of Seed- and Soil-Borne Plant Pathogens, J.M. Whipps and B. Gerhardson
Plant Growth-Promoting Bacteria, S. Saleh and B.R. Glick
Biodegradation and Bioremediation of Organic Pollutants in Soil, K.T. Leung, K. Nandakumar, K. Sreekumari, H. Lee, and J.T. Trevors
Statistical Analyses of Microbiological and Environmental Data, B.B. McSpadden Gardener
Glossary Modern Soil Microbiology
Index

The Rhizosphere An Ecological Perspective

http://ebookee.org/The-Rhizosphere-An-Ecological-Perspective_315201.html supposedly free download

http://www.amazon.com/Rhizosphere-Ecological-Perspective-Zoe-Cardon/dp/0120887754



1 Root Interactions with Soil Microbial Communities
and Processes
Christine V. Hawkes, Kristen M. DeAngelis, and Mary K. Firestone
1.1 Introduction
1.2 The Composition of Rhizosphere Microbial Communities
1.3 Characteristics of Rhizosphere Soil that Impact Microbial
Community Composition
1.4 Importance of Rhizosphere Microbial Communities at
Larger Scales
1.5 Closing Observations
2 Carbon Fluxes in the Rhizosphere
Weixin Cheng and Alexander Gershenson
2.2 Quantity and Quality of Rhizodeposits
2.3 Rhizosphere Carbon Fluxes Under Elevated CO
2.4 Functional Considerations
2.5 Microbial Assimilation Efficiency of Rhizodeposits
2.6 Temporal Dynamics of Exudation and Respiration
2.7 Methods for Studying Rhizosphere Carbon Fluxes
2.8 Prospects for Future Research
3 Microfaunal Interactions in the Rhizosphere, How Nematodes
and Protozoa Link Above- and Belowground Processes
Bryan S. Griffiths, Søren Christensen, and Michael Bonkowski
3.1 The Plant as a Bridge Between Above-
and Belowground Populations and Processes
3.2 Rhizosphere Microfauna – Direct Effects on Carbon and
Nitrogen Flows
3.3 Rhizosphere Microfauna – Indirect Effects on Plant
Growth
3.4 Rhizosphere Microfauna – Interactions with Mycorrhizal
and Other Symbionts
3.5 Plant Response to Above- and Belowground
Herbivory
3.6 Conclusions and Directions for Future Research
4 Mycorrhizas: Symbiotic Mediators of Rhizosphere
and Ecosystem Processes
Nancy C. Johnson and Catherine A. Gehring
4.2 Convergent Evolution of Mycorrhizas
4.3 Mycorrhizas as Nutritional Mutualisms
4.4 Community Interactions
4.5 Ecosystem Interactions and Biogeography
4.6 Mycorrhizal Function in a Changing World
4.7 Directions for Future Research
5 Soil Rhizosphere Food Webs, Their Stability, and Implications
for Soil Processes in Ecosystems
John C. Moore, Kevin McCann, and Peter C. de Ruiter
5.2 The Strategy Underlying Mathematically Capturing the
Essence of Rhizosphere Function
5.3 Resource Flow in the Rhizosphere
5.4 Discussion and Conclusions
6 Understanding and Managing the Rhizosphere
in Agroecosystems
Laurie E. Drinkwater and Sieglinde S. Snapp
6.2 Intensive Agriculture: Deliberate and Inadvertent
Consequences for the Rhizosphere
6.3 Rhizosphere Processes and Agroecosystem Function
6.4 The Future of the Rhizosphere in Ecological Agriculture
7 The Contribution of Root – Rhizosphere Interactions
to Biogeochemical Cycles in a Changing World
Kurt S. Pregitzer, Donald R. Zak, Wendy M. Loya,
Noah J. Karberg, John S. King, and Andrew J. Burton
7.2 A Conceptual Overview of Rhizosphere Processes
in Biogeochemical Cycles
7.3 Examples of Ecosystem Feedback
7.4 Summary: Cascading Consequences of Altered Primary
Productivity
8 The Rhizosphere and Soil Formation
Daniel deB. Richter, Neung-Hwan Oh, Ryan Fimmen,
and Jason Jackson
8.2 A Review of Concepts
8.3 Rhizospheres: Where Ecosystems Concentrate Biological
Interactions with Soil Minerals
8.4 Overview of the Rhizosphere’s Weathering Attack

 

[Granger2]

Microbeman,
I don't have a microscope. I'm going by the change of smell, formation of a head [I know not conclusive], and that the pH rises. Even if putting EWC in the bucket and bubbling doesn't cause growth of beneficials, it raises the pH, which is my main purpose. However, I find it very hard to believe that there would be no significant multiplication of the critters in my inoculants. What do you think? -granger

 

[Microbeman]

Microbeman,
I don't have a microscope. I'm going by the change of smell, formation of a head [I know not conclusive], and that the pH rises. Even if putting EWC in the bucket and bubbling doesn't cause growth of beneficials, it raises the pH, which is my main purpose. However, I find it very hard to believe that there would be no significant multiplication of the critters in my inoculants. What do you think? -granger

I just think it is a big step to saying

and I know the microbes seem to do just fine

It may be entirely possible and even likely that some microbes would grow in whatever it is you are doing but it is probably better to speculate than announce.

Edit: I thought you were discussing EJ not EWC.

 

[trichrider]

oh shoot...i thought feeding microbes was the plants job...

feed them molasses or fish hydrosolate while aerating, they multiply but they also are locking up nutrients.
apply to soil (medium) and the ones that reach the rhizosphere form symbiotic relationship with plant. plant exudes sugars which feed microbes, in turn microbes provide chelated nutrients to plant...how is feeding those beneficials (in essence doing the plants job) going to affect that symbiosis?

is this confusing or contraindicating?

 

[Scrappy4]

oh shoot...i thought feeding microbes was the plants job...

feed them molasses or fish hydrosolate while aerating, they multiply but they also are locking up nutrients.
apply to soil (medium) and the ones that reach the rhizosphere form symbiotic relationship with plant. plant exudes sugars which feed microbes, in turn microbes provide chelated nutrients to plant...how is feeding those beneficials (in essence doing the plants job) going to affect that symbiosis?

is this confusing or contraindicating?

While plants do feed microbes, microbes sometimes dine alone. My dirt storage bin hopefully is teaming with microbes but nary a plant in site. I do keep the bin damp and feed it lightly with left over compost or nutrient type teas. So a plant is not nessasary for microbes to flourish. But plants do complete the circle so to speak. And when we feed microbes or make compost tea, we are trying to increase their numbers. If you can make the microbes multiply their chances to interact with our plants only increases. Maybe in animals something like one sperm vrs gobs of them. The gobs would be more likely to hit a homerun than a single sperm........scrappy

 

[Scrappy4]

Double post

 

[Granger2]

Microbeman,
No, it would be a big step, and it would be an announcement if I had said, "and I know the microbes do just fine."

However, what I said was, "and I know the microbes *seem* to do just fine."

Maybe you should take this up with the EJ folks, since they encourage users of their products to bubble the mixes. I'm no scientist, just a farmer doing what farmers have done for thousands of years. Try things and see what works, and what doesn't, then pass on the experiences to others.

BTW-I was discussing EJ because FinestKind asked about it. And yes, I know it's off topic, but I doubt that's a first in an 83 page thread.

To clarify, I inoculate the EJ mix with EWC and bubble it. -granger

 

[heady blunts]

...in turn microbes provide chelated nutrients to plant...

those hafta come from somewhere!

 

[Microbeman]

Granger; I don't even understand what you said.

 

[rrog]

MM, those are excellent book references. Since I don't want to shell out $150+ per book, I'll see if my library can get them as inter-library loan. They look excellent, and thanks for taking the time to post that

 

[FinestKind]

Maybe in animals something like one sperm vrs gobs of them.

Did you have to say "gobs of sperm" (Sorry to bring it down a notch, had to be done.)

Thanks for the references- I've heard the book Teaming With Microbes mentioned a number of times, so I'll check that one out, for sure. I can handle the hard science, Microbeman (I'm in school studying to be a Civil/Enviromental engineer at the moment), so I will check out at least one of those books... maybe my school even has them in its library, now how sweet would that be!

~FK

 

[Scrappy4]

Did you have to say "gobs of sperm" (Sorry to bring it down a notch, had to be done.)

I did not want to say fuck juice.......

 

[ClackamasCootz]

"Baby Batter"

 

[trichrider]

okey dokey then...

i'm safe. maybe i'll even toss some nutrients (other than mo, fish hydro) in as an investment of sorts.

i assure you, i understand the concept.

thnx for your indulgence.