TC2010/Prop 19 unlikely to pass (new poll results)

[215forLife]

Moldyfrogtoes you've yet to state your contributions to the movement. I'm all ears buddy.

 

[vta]

Reelbusy1 that statistics show that most of the arrests for possesion of an oz or less which are really just $100 tickets are for people under 21. Prop 19 doesn't help those most frequently arrested. If anything they will get more time.

According to a 2005 study commissioned by the NORML Foundation, 74 percent of all Americans busted for pot are under age thirty, and one out of four are age eighteen or younger.

1 out of 4 is 25% no? you add 19 and 20 year old's and I'll give you a couple more points.

I can dig up a 'study' for anything I want to debate. I can show you a study that says cannabis causes cancer and one that says it doesn't.

Anyways...So the State has to analyze every initiative. Here are some key points they provided in their report...

According to the California Legislative Analyst's Office, the following fiscal impact would result from the bill.[5]

* Result in significant savings to state and local governments, potentially up to several tens of millions of dollars annually due to reduction of individuals incarcerated, on probation or on parole.
* Cells currently being used to house marijuana offenders could be used for other criminals, many of whom are now being released early because of a lack of jail space.
* Minor reduction in state and local costs for enforcement of marijuana-related offenses and the handling of related criminal cases in the court system, providing the opportunity for funds to be used to enforce other existing criminal laws. The RAND Corporation has found that law enforcement costs for marijuana enforcement are relatively low.
* Potential increase in the costs of substance abuse programs due to speculated increase in usage of marijuana, possibly having the effect of reducing spending on mandatory treatment for some criminal offenders, or result in the redirection of these funds for other offenders.
* The measure could potentially reduce both the costs and offsetting revenues of the state's medical marijuana program as adults over 21 would be less likely to participate in the existing program as obtaining marijuana would be easier, thus making use of existing medical marijuana program unnecessary.
* Although some would argue that the measure would provide the opportunity for significant additional revenues as the result of the taxation of sales and businesses engaged in commerce relating to marijuana, it has been settled case law since 1969 (Marchetti v. US and Leary v. US) that a taxpayer cannot be forced to pay a tax that would violate their Fifth Amendment rights. Since paying a local tax as a marijuana vendor would amount to an admission (pursuant to federal law) that the taxpayer is a drug dealer and suggests that the local marijuana taxes themselves are uncollectable.
* There would be a reduction in fines collected under current state law but a possible increase in local civil fines authorized by existing local laws.
* The cumulative effect on fines is largely unknown.

There is a potential loss of at least $ 40 billion in federal funding (of which $ 9.4 billion is for K-12 education. This is because Proposition puts every governmental entity in California, every California business and every California non-profit out of compliance with the Drug-Free Workplace Act of 1988. Compliance with that act is a condition precdent to receiving federal contracts of $ 100,000 or more, or federal grants of $ 100,000 or more. The California Chamber of Commerce believes that passage of Proposition 19 could cost hundreds of thousands of California jobs.

If passed by the voters on November 2, 2010, Proposition 19 will

* Reduce the racial bias in cannabis arrests

* Create between 60,000 and 110,000 new jobs in California

* Generate between $1.2 billion and $1.4 billion in new direct tax revenue annually

* Expand California's economy by between $16 billion and $23 billion annually

* Reduce crime in California

* Reduce violence in California and Mexico

* Free up law enforcement resources to focus on violent crime and property crime.

* Reduce environmental damage to California's public lands from illegal grow operations.

* Reduce prison costs and prison overcrowding

* Reduce funding to drug cartels, who currently get about 70% of their revenue from illegal cannabis sales

* Reduce police corruption

* Improve the relationship between police and the communities they serve

* Reduce alcohol's cost to society by allowing adults to choose a safer alternative]

Now lets take a look at beautiful San Fransisco. Great town with a little bit of everything. Including a generally relaxed view on cannabis. So relaxed in fact that in 1992 "lowest-priority" enforcement for cannabis offenses was enacted.

Then there is this:

According to statistics obtained by SF Weekly, marijuana-related arrests are up by nearly 15 percent. The San Francisco Police Department arrested 1,637 people in San Francisco for pot-related offenses in 2009, according to its own count. This is way up from 1,428 arrests in 2008; that's a 14.6 percent jump (conviction and jailing statistics are sadly absent).

1,637 mostly otherwise law abiding citizens being arrested. That is a lot for just SFPD's jurisdiction. Especially considering that cannabis offenses take a lessor priority than say jaywalking.

It gets worse:

Of these scofflaws, 1,054 were busted for felonies (for perspective's sake, offenses like running a massive grow operation in your home and selling pot to an undercover officer are felonies; possession is a misdemeanor). This is still way down from 1999, however, when nearly 1,500 people were arrested for felony marijuana offenses. Yet the augmentation is there, and it's cause for concern...

So that's 1,000 people getting felonies last year in liberal San Fan for cannabis...I bet all of their profiles fit ones of those there right here at IC. 1,000 of us getting felonies.

Anyways its late and I'm going to roll a fatty and hit the jacuzzi.

 

[215forLife]

And prop 19 won't do jack shit nothing for those who caught felonies in San Francisco. Have you ever been to Haight street? Hippies just walk up and down openly selling nugs, buds, herbs, trees, dank ect....

 

[215forLife]

Vta thanks though for posting that nice to know that marijuana taxes are uncollectable!

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

what does this "legalization" give us that 215 does not?
just more restrictions, and this BULLSHIT 275k permit for commercial growing?
.

How about way lower prices as the product is really legal?

But paying a doctor for the right to buy and smoke Cannabis is not? To me it is BULLSHIT you hypocrite.

That and people won't have to lie to buy Cannabis from a medical dispensary if we are not sick but just want to smoke a joint.
And all the dispensaries that sell at inflated prices, even higher then the street price, will have to find a lot more customers if they want to continue to make profit hand over foot. Most people, sick or not, will buy the cheapest priced quality they prefer, and that will not be from a dispensary if recreational is legal, wise up...
Cannabis is cheap to grow, and growers that supply dispensaries are making money that should stay in the pockets of the medical patients, it is time for a change....
I know not all who supply to patients are all about money, look at my old friend Valerie Corral from WAMM, that is how you help patients if you care more about the patients then the money to be made off the patients.

I will be happy when the 215 parasites can't make a profit growing Cannabis anymore and move on to the next money making scam.

-SamS

 

[CaptainTrips]

Prop 19 does not make cannabis sales legal, nobody knows what will happen to the price market. And its rather hypocritical of someone that has been selling over priced seeds for 20 or whatever years on the back of a world wide black market, to be complaining about other people making money off weed...

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Moldyfrogtoes you've yet to state your contributions to the movement. I'm all ears buddy.

How about you buddy, I am all ears to hear all what you have done for others that did not primarily enrich yourself.
If you are part of a movement it is for sure not the same Cannabis movement that I have been part of for 45 years now.
No one in the movement I know would vote the same as all the LEO groups and Prohibitionists groups that will also oppose Prop 19. Don't that even give you the slightest reason to re-think what and why you are in the same camp with these scum bags? Maybe just maybe they are laughing all the way to the ballot box, at what a pitiful "movement" Cannabis is with people like you involved. Go ahead and vote the same as the CHP and prison guards, will they will be your friends for what you helped achieve for them?
Sad, how lost some of our community seems to be.

But at least they can blindly follow Dennis and Jack, and know they are doing the right thing, at least for their pocketbook...

-SamS

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

the other day i opened up the SFweekly and theres a 20 page section just for cannabis clubs. how to make edibles, which edibles are the best, reviews of each club, etc etc.

THIS SHITS ALREADY PRETTY DAMN LEGAL in my opinion. get your card, and go have fun. you can buy, grow, all you want.


what does this "legalization" give us that 215 does not? just more restrictions, and this BULLSHIT 275k permit for commercial growing?

legalization is NOT legalization, its regulation, hidden under the disguise of legalization to get all you people to vote for it.

Regulation is inherent in legalization, period.

What you are doing is considering taking advantage of a true medical need to be legalization, that hurts the image of the people who truly need it for medical reasons as opposed to recreational use.

This legalization gives us long term security by differentiating between medical and recreational use such that the public no longer gets a bad impression from the countless people who bilk the medical system just so they can use recreationally. At this rate the entire medical system is going to be attacked because of people like that, and people who are actually suffering will be screwed.

I know it seems like it's already legalized to you but that couldn't be any farther from the truth. From the general public's perspective it looks like a complete, absolute joke, and that is really not good for medical or recreational users in the long run. You can only yank the public's chain so much before you shoot yourself in the foot. Please don't do that, especially for the sake of those who truly need it for medical reasons.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Prop 19 does not make cannabis sales legal, nobody knows what will happen to the price market. And its rather hypocritical of someone that has been selling over priced seeds for 20 or whatever years on the back of a world wide black market, to be complaining about other people making money off weed...

WTF? Over priced seeds?
First of all I have not even retailed seeds for more the two decades.
Second I have given away millions of seeds for free, MILLIONS, no joke. Ask Gypsy...
Third, when I did sell seeds my prices were pretty low, around $.10 - $.50 a pop. Way less then a buck a pop. And way cheaper then any other seed seller I have ever heard of.
You obviously know nothing about me and are just spewing nonsense, I suggest if your understanding of Prop 19 is about the same as your understanding of me, you need to re-educate yourself before you vote. But I doubt you will bother, just keep spewing nonsense like many of the other NO voters on Prop 19.

-SamS

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

Moldyfrogtoes you've yet to state your contributions to the movement. I'm all ears buddy.

Not that it matters, but I've been politically active for almost a decade, I keep the pressure on politicians at all levels in various states. I donate to NORML, I donate to MPP, which some may take issue with for stupid reasons but I know it's the right thing to do.. I go around telling people why MJ is not as harmful as they think it is.

Hell, yesterday I was just telling my barber (and about 5 other bystanders in the shop, in a decrim-only state) about why I use MJ and not alcohol or cigarettes, telling her about drug tests, the duration of MJ in your system, how it's a joke compared to the other harsh drugs that go out of your body relatively quickly, and the line of work I do, how I vaporize as opposed to smoking it - to give her an idea that the avg pothead isn't just some useless POS, but rather, someone who cares about society, the work they do, and the health of their body. She didn't understand why people used it and she's a 40something year old cig smoker, I was explaining how really, it's the same to me as it is to her going home at the end of the day and drinking a beer or smoking a cig - but better - and safer. I use my good standings in society to let people know we're not just bunch of dumb stoners, I'm athletic and my line of work involves serious business, attentiveness, and detail that if screwed up will get my ass handed to me.

For years I was on overgrow offering advice about soil health and biology, why synthetic chems aren't good for your plants, how to minimize impact on outdoor grows so we don't look like assholes in the eyes of the general public, etc. I'm a big fan of letting nature doing the work for you as opposed to using nasty pesticides or petrochemicals to create the best of MJ plants with the least environmental damage. Did I mention peat moss use is a complete offense to this planet, and horticulturally unnecessary..don't get me started on that.

Most of all I'm an advocate for people who need MJ for medicinal reasons, as that is the first and foremost priority any of us should hold. Maybe that's not enough but I try my hardest with the time and resources I have at the moment.

I respect and thank Peron for advancing the movement, but I can't agree with his unrealistic view of refusing to support any form of tax/regulation on MJ, because recreationally speaking (more like overall freedomatically (a new word!) speaking) that is the only way we'll move this issue forward and I'm not going to sit around waiting for someone who believes what Peron thinks. I also can't agree with or support the notion that we should disingenuously use recreationally under the guise of medical auspices.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a game about who does more. And I am not trying to win you over in any way, I could care less.
But what should be conveyed is that I care about this in my heart, always have, and always will, on every level.

 

[Travieso]

For those of you who think prop19 wont have an affect on our current med laws, read this and tell me what you think....

California's Proposition 19 will supersede or amend its medical marijuana laws

http://www.examiner.com/x-14883-San...supersede-or-amend-its-medical-marijuana-laws

p.s. after reading the article, watch the 2 videos in the link especially the last one. open your eyes people.

VOTE NO ON PROP 19!

 

[slojoe]

Just reschedule it from a level 1 narcotic to a level 3 non feloney crime.This could be done nationwide with the stroke of pen at the federal level! WARE YU AT OBAMA??????

 

[Guest 88950]

CaptTrips,

you spew so much Assumptions and propaganda thati im beginning to wonder if your so lonely that at all cost, you looking dumb, you engage in online chat.

you obviously dont read all the post in the threads in which you interact in b/c SamS already informed another ignorant user of his activities in the seed business.

shut up if you cant post intelligently. your only making yourself look stupid.

 

[vta]

Regardless of what you think Of Mark Emery. Read this...

CANNABIS CULTURE - For the first time in US history, there is a state initiative to legalize marijuana possession, use, and production for all adults: the California Control & Tax Cannabis Initiative, which will appear on the November election ballot as Proposition 19. Unfortunately, there are some "marijuana activists" who are aggressively opposing the brilliant initiative. In this article I will address some of the myths being told about this initiative, and why I fully support it.

But first, let me explain that opponents of Richard Lee's initiative fall into three groups. The first group is the police and prison industry, represented by their unions and spokespeople. These are the system exploiters who have profited greatly and built power bases at the expense of the people. These are our archenemies, people who think it’s okay making a buck by arresting, strip-searching, incarcerating, harassing, and jailing ordinary cannabis consumer and home-growers. They are destroying our constitutional freedoms, seizing our kids, and forcing the cost of marijuana up to immoral prices as part of their love affair with prohibition.

The second group includes the cartels, thugs, street gangs, large commercial growers, commercial medical marijuana growers and their dependents that make exploitative profits taking full advantage of prohibition-inflated prices. They correctly surmise that when every adult in California can make all the homegrown cannabis an individual can produce in 25 square feet, the need for them and their rip-off prices evaporates. Like, gone, baby gone. And with home grows legal, police will target the exploiter large scale grows. Who needs their $350- to $450-per-ounce cannabis when we can all safely and legally grow our own weed at home for about $12.50 an ounce?

The third group is the so-called old guard of the cannabis or medical marijuana movement. The wonderful Proposition-215 pioneer Denis Peron is one, but there are many others. Their opposition is entirely trivial and irrational. It stems from a professional jealousy that a successful, compassionate man like Richard Lee (who has provided over a million dollars of his well-earned money to support this initiative) is doing it without their blessing. No one asked Dennis Peron's permission. Dennis is a hero to the pot movement and has done a great deal to provide marijuana to medical users, but it seems he feels the world of activism has passed him by – because it has, and he's jealous.

Perhaps the most loathsome aspect of this debate is the opposition by those large commercial exploiter growers, cartels, "compassionate" medical growers who charge $3,500 - $4,500 a pound wholesale and profit immensely from prohibition, as they have allied themselves with the most cynical and exploitative members of the prohibitionist regime: the cops and the prison industry. I can expect all of the previously mentioned vested interests to contribute big money to the no campaign, which is tragic and unfortunate. That an elder statesman like Dennis Peron is lending false testimony to this campaign against the greatest anti-prohibition initiative put to voters in US history is a sad state of affairs.

I will go through the points asserted by the naysayers and reveal that all are trivial and irrelevant sham arguments. I will point out that the real issue here is the fear these commercial exploiter growers have that their market will utterly dry up. At $12.50 an ounce for your own homegrown, who will pay their rip-off prices anymore? Almost no one, and this has them rightly panicked. Well, I say screw any greedy growers whose love of money is greater than their love of marijuana, and you should too by voting for THE CONTROL & TAX CANNABIS INITIATIVE this November.

COMPLAINT #1: THIS BILL ISN'T REALLY LEGALIZATION

Proposition 215, passed by California voters in November 1996, did not change medical marijuana laws federally, but it was still the most significant ballot initiative in the history of prohibition in the United States. While one might say it was a half measure – hardly legalization, as we understand the word – it demonstrated a process that has been guiding us inevitably (though with much kicking and screaming by both prohibitionists and purists in the movement) towards a freer, brighter future for cannabis users, at least in the state of California.

But look what an example will do! Because of California’s adoption of Proposition 215, there are 14 states and Districts in the US with medical marijuana laws, and 20 more are developing legislation or ballot initiatives leading to a medical marijuana law. Yet the federal government acknowledged none of it until last year when Obama's Justice Department agreed not to oppose or harass any state marijuana initiatives passed by the people contrary to federal law.

Even though federal law still prohibits cannabis, Proposition 215 provided protection to the current 500,000 Californians who possess medical marijuana exemptions. But that law still forbids any healthy person from cultivating, possessing or distributing non-medical cannabis – a group of adults 21 and over that numbers over 31 million in the Golden State.

With 14 states and districts having a medical marijuana statute, about 2 million Americans now have some form of local or state protection against prosecution under state law. While Proposition 215 was only providing protection to a very small number of people, the idea of it spread to other states and is a rallying cry across the land. Proposition 215 cannot even be considered a step towards true legalization; it was a step towards "exemption" from state law that applied to very few people, until recently. Nonetheless, the armor of the drug war was breached and more activism in the US has flowed from the success of 215 than any other single incident in our movement. Yet, since 1996, thousands of Californians have still gone to jail for producing cannabis, selling cannabis, and possessing cannabis. Proposition 215 has very limited application under state law. This 2010 legalization initiative will broaden the scope of protection to include EVERY ADULT 21 and over.

When naysayers claim that Richard Lee's brave, brilliant and shrewd initiative is not legalization as anyone understands it, they are wrong. Legalization to me (and many others) means any individual can grow it, possess it and smoke it in the privacy of their own home. This initiative does precisely that. Sure, there are minor penalties for smoking outside, but Amsterdam has the same penalties for outdoor consumption too. Do we think of Amsterdam, or rather The Netherlands, as a bastion of prohibitionist oppression? No, of course not. Hundreds of thousands of Americans travel to Amsterdam every year to experience a legal taxed, regulated environment where tourists and the Dutch alike can buy it (taxed), carry it home, or smoke it in private property. The Dutch cannot grow 25 square feet of pot however, so this California initiative would make California far more free and accessible to cannabis that Amsterdam is today and ever was – but only if Californians vote for this initiative.

Is it perfect? Perhaps not – and ask yourself, “perfect according to whom?” because everyone cannot possibly agree on one ideal solution. But it will be the most liberal regime in the entire world, if passed! It allows each adult, 21 and older, to grow 25 square feet of pot. With just one 1,000-watt light, you can produce at least one pound of pot or more every 10 weeks; that’s 80 ounces for every man and woman 21 and over! (And it’s illegal for young people to possess or smoke marijuana now, but they still manage to do it; why wouldn’t that continue to be the situation if the initiative passes?)

The cost of producing your 5 pounds annually is $1,000 ($300 for 1,000-watt light, $200 for pots, soil and nutrients, and $500 for electricity). That’s $12.50 per ounce for your own legal home garden! Then you can carry an ounce of it anywhere, and smoke it in your house, at your friends house, at a club, in your yacht, in any privately owned and contained space! $12.50 an ounce for cannabis that doesn't need to be rushed, can be flushed however long is required, that you can confirm has no pesticides or herbicides – that will be the best cannabis you've ever smoked!

The criticism that this initiative heavily regulates a now "unregulated" environment invites comparisons to The Netherlands. There, the marijuana sales are taxed, regulated, and controlled by the state, yet every American thinks that it is paradise. The Richard Lee initiative provides for homegrown access to every adult 21 and over, which is not available in the Netherlands. In fact, there is nothing in this initiative that makes California any less than Amsterdam, and there is a great deal more in this ballot initiative that goes well beyond the regime in the Netherlands.

This portrait of California as currently being some almost-legal paradise that will be set back if the initiative passes is absolute deception and lies. Many people are in jail right now in California for home grows, dispensaries and distribution.

Today, if you are an adult carrying an ounce, police can seize it, strip search you, use the seizure as the basis for a search warrant to search your home or car or person or handbag, and more. You face a criminal record, a fine, and potentially incarceration. All that is eliminated under this new law. For the 30-million-plus Californians without a medical exemption card, this means a world of difference. The current laws can bring on a world of hurt to anyone caught carrying one ounce. This proposed law eliminates all that if the carrier is 21 or older. Under this initiative you can't be fired from work if you smoke cannabis. Only the cartels, street gangs, and unlicensed exploiter commercial growers will see the cops more frequently – and they know it.

COMPLAINT #2: THE BILL HAS A 21 YEAR AGE LIMIT FOR CANNABIS

The proposed penalty under this bill for supplying 18- to 20-year-olds with cannabis is identical to the fine and penalty for supplying liquor or beer to 18- to 20-year-olds in California. The vast majority of cannabis consumers are 21 and over; and it allows those approximately 31 million adult Californians to grow plentiful quantities of their own homegrown, adequate for a personal supply. 25 square feet under a 1,000-watt light can produce 16 ounces every 10 weeks. It's possible two lights can be suspended above that 25 square feet, producing up to 32 ounces every 10 weeks, so it is not inadequate to the most demanding personal or medical needs.

COMPLAINT #3: YOU CAN'T TOKE OUTDOORS OR IN THE PRESENCE OF MINORS

The initiative doesn't add any penalties for toking outdoors in the same space as minors, it merely says these things are not authorized under the bill. So whatever the current law is regarding outdoor toking or toking near minors would be the same as before the bill was passed.

However, it is not unreasonable to have minors excluded from the initiative. The opposition to the Lee Initiative often focuses on the availability of cannabis to minors. It is a small inconvenience not to have minors present when you are consuming cannabis. Minors need only be in another room while cannabis is being consumed. Cannabis is a psychoactive that travels through the air. You can't supply alcohol to minors either, because it too is regarded as a psychoactive, but alcohol is a liquid. The potential penalties are the same. Yet have you heard of any parents arrested for giving their teenage children a glass of red wine at dinner? Not often, if ever, but the law still forbids it. That will likely be the regime for cannabis. This objection is trivial, as are all the objections coming from the naysayers.

This law absolutely protects your right to privacy in your home to consume cannabis, in a private room absent any minors. It's not unreasonable to restrict consumption of cannabis to adults in any law at this point in our political evolution. It is illegal to smoke cigarettes in an enclosed space with minors. It is illegal to share alcohol with minors. Considering the incredible awesome benefits for adults 21 and over in the legislation, this is a minor inconvenience at most. For most adults without minors in the house, club or private residence, it is not an irritant at all. This aspect of the legislation may go far to reassure voters that it won't be a free-for-all for teenagers in private property, which is entirely reasonable.

Is the "right" to smoke with minors present SO important that we must deny 30 million Californians the genuine right to possess and smoke in safety in their own homes? Give me a break! If you want to campaign to lower the legal age limit of “adulthood”, that’s another initiative.

COMPLAINT #4: YOU CAN ONLY BUY FROM LICENSED DEALERS

If your neighbour is currently selling pot, it’s called trafficking and it's not a $100 fine; it means jail. If your neighbour sells cannabis after this initiative, it's still trafficking, as it is today. So there's no change there. People will most certainly be selling to their friends and neighbours.

Anyone in California can grow his or her own cannabis under this new statute. After this initiative, California will be flooded with cannabis at dramatically reduced prices. Even with a $50 an ounce tax at the retail level, the legal wholesale price should drop to about $20 an ounce, perhaps about $35 to $50-per-ounce retail (plus tax). If you can grow your own for $12.50 an ounce in your own home, even $75 to $100-per-ounce retail with all taxes may be too high for some – but much lower than it costs now. It will be an excellent value for tourists, casual smokers and gourmet tastes.

COMPLAINT #5: CANNABIS TAXES COULD BE USED TO ENFORCE CANNABIS PROHIBITION

Taxes get spent wherever your elected representatives decide. California has a $22 billion deficit in fiscal 2010, and a total $170 billion debt in total, this situation is unsustainable. It is a fine trade-off to end prohibition and reduce prices by ten fold (or higher, if you grow your own) in exchange for a taxed and regulated system.

If you vote, then get involved in politics. Join the Republican, Democratic, or Green Party and have a say in how your taxes are spent. Sadly, many stoners and potheads don't vote, and that's why we get screwed by the political establishment. If you get involved – hell, if you just show up – you could make history this November. If you join a party, nominate a candidate, attend meetings, and write your Assemblyman, you can be part of the debate on how this new tax revenue is to be used.

Of the many terrific things that will happen once this initiative passes, which industry shills and naysayers fail to bring up, is the incredible tourist boom that will transform California. Once cannabis can be legally consumed for all individuals in the state of California, once it can bought at licensed outlets and carried around, millions and millions of Asians, Europeans, Canadians and Americans will flood into California to visit and spend, spend, spend. While buying all their favorite kinds of cannabis that they can only dream of back home, they will be spending money on hotels, restaurants, transportation and entertainment (all of which are taxed.) Dodger’s ball games and Disneyland will have a whole new attraction level!

The millions of new tourists will be spending billions of dollars in the Golden State. That will add up to 500,000 jobs, cut the unemployment and welfare costs drastically, and inject staggering sums of money into the depressed hotel and restaurant industries. Although sales of marijuana may generate only $1 - $2 billion in taxes annually, billions more in taxes will be collected on all the other aspects of tourist spending that is certain to happen.

You don't think every stoner in Missouri isn't going to save every penny he can to visit California for a week or more to smoke White Widow, Sour Diesel, Trainwreck, Purple Urkle, and every other strain in a legal environment? California will be a stoner's paradise, and the 190,000,000 potheads on this Earth (by the most recent UN calculations) will also be making pilgrimages to California. The TV ad for California tourism we've all seen, with Governor Schwarzenegger and others saying, "What are you waiting for?”, will finally have some meaning!

COMPLAINT #6: SHOPS THAT SELL CANNABIS WILL NEED TO BE LICENSED AND PAY TAXES

All businesses in modern society are licensed, regulated, taxed and audited. This will be true for the legal marijuana industry. The initiative requires licensing and zoning for cannabis dispensing businesses, which is simply no different than what’s required for a bookshop, pharmacy, movie theatre, accounting office, factory, shipyard, or any other legal business place. Every business that operates in a legal environment is regulated; that's the reality of the term "legal". If it's not regulated, it’s not legal, so there is no protection or recourse under law – and that lack of protection and accountability is what we have under prohibition.

The price of marijuana today is outrageous as a consequence of its illegality. Since Proposition 215 passed in 1996, the price of marijuana has not gone down at all; in fact, it's gone up, a sure sign that in fact Prop 215 was just a baby step, and nothing like the significant step towards legalization that this initiative is. In a legal environment, the price of cannabis will plummet, and under this initiative, prices WILL plummet as millions of home grows become productive, replacing the need for the large commercial exploiter grow-ops, the cartels, and the street gangs.

COMPLAINT #7: YOU CAN'T GROW MUCH BUD IN A 25-SQUARE-FOOT SPACE

It is the industry standard that one 1,000-watt bulb (complete kit $250-$300) can produce one pound of dry weight cannabis. With Co2 added and diligent gardening, many growers can get 1.2 to 1.4 pounds per light. A 25-square-foot space can accommodate even two 1,000-watt lights, so potential yields in that case would be 2 to 2.5 pounds every 10 weeks; that means ANY competent grower can achieve 16 to 40 ounces every 10 weeks in their space, a generous personal or medical amount by any standard.

This idea that you will just get a few ounces out of a 25 square foot space is simply more lies and spin to scare you away from supporting the initiative. Whether they know it or not, the naysayers are in league with the big commercial growers who are terrified of this initiative and want their black market protected.

IN CONCLUSION

This is the greatest, best ballot initiative to achieve the closest thing ever to full legalization ever put before voters anywhere in the world.

If you are a pot smoker then you will be better off, by far, if this bill passes. The only ones worse off will be gun-toting street gangs and cartels, the police and prison industry, and any exploitative commercial growers who are not honest or skilled enough to legally produce for the licensed market.

The benefit to the 31 million California adults 21 years of age and older will be legal access to their own organic, safe, homegrown at $12.50 an ounce in hugely generous personal quantities, or obtain it from professional licensed outlets who will supply an enormous array of various high-quality cannabis. Add to that the creation of about 500,000 to 1,000,000 new jobs due to the massive influx of tourists flooding California to sample to fruits of an industry 50 times larger than the wine-tasting industry!

It's clear there will be huge amounts in taxes collected from tourists and cannabis retail sales that will impact positively on the California state budget. There will be TEN-FOLD lower retail prices ($35-$50 an ounce instead of $200-$500). Even with a $50 per ounce tax, this means that the best marijuana available will be legally sold for under $100 per ounce to any adult in California. Police will instead direct their efforts at the cartels, street gangs, and unlicensed commercial growers exporting cannabis out-of-state.

As California goes, so does the rest of America. If this initiative passes, it will soon appear in other US states. And as America goes, so will the world. Canada, Europe and countries everywhere will have to end prohibition, or their people will simply flock to California and America. Legalization begets more legalization. Won't it be incredible when California is way better than Amsterdam? Wouldn't it be great if approving this initiative led to Seattle, Austin, Denver, New Orleans, Atlanta, Detroit, Portland and every American city being even cooler than Amsterdam?

I urge all Californians to support and VOTE for the CONTROL & TAX CANNABIS INITIATIVE of 2010. It’s the best chance we've ever had to begin changing the world, but it needs your committed support. The profiteers of prohibition – the cops, gangs, prohibitionists, and exploitative commercial growers – will be giving their prohibition profits to the NO side to protect their lucrative black market exploitation of the sick and dying, so you had better help out the good guys like Richard Lee and campaign for his brave initiative.

This is a brilliantly thought-out, shrewdly written law that is designed to get a majority of voters on board. One side of the debate wants to maintain the prohibition market and prohibition-inflated prices for cannabis, and therefore continue imprisoning and exploiting us all for their own greedy, immoral benefit. The other side wants to see legalization, much more affordable and high-quality cannabis, and an end to the suffering, imprisonment, and human rights abuses caused by prohibition. Which side are YOU on?

- Article written by Marc Emery from SeaTac Federal Detention Center in Seattle, Washington. Marc is awaiting sentencing for pleading guilty after being extradited to the USA from Canada for selling cannabis seeds and using the profits to fund the movement.

 

[CaptainTrips]

WTF? Over priced seeds?
First of all I have not even retailed seeds for more the two decades.
Second I have given away millions of seeds for free, MILLIONS, no joke. Ask Gypsy...
Third, when I did sell seeds my prices were pretty low, around $.10 - $.50 a pop. Way less then a buck a pop. And way cheaper then any other seed seller I have ever heard of.
You obviously know nothing about me and are just spewing nonsense, I suggest if your understanding of Prop 19 is about the same as your understanding of me, you need to re-educate yourself before you vote. But I doubt you will bother, just keep spewing nonsense like many of the other NO voters on Prop 19.

-SamS

Ok, so your name is only on seeds and you have never made any money off weed ever. Hey if thats the case good for you. Seems unlikely, but whatever.... All seed is overpriced imo... Nature of the game at the moment.

 

[GanjaAL]

http://www.examiner.com/x-14883-San...supersede-or-amend-its-medical-marijuana-laws

 

[Guest 88950]

.... All seed is overpriced imo... Nature of the game at the moment.

and why is this true?

wouldnt a legal market drop the prices?

 

[wickedpete66]

I think the majority of people who are voting no will still be illegal even if it does pass. So if your still going to be illegal why take the cut in profit.

like most have said your not going to jail for having an ounce of weed on you anyway.

 

[wickedpete66]

Sensationalist headline much?

"The survey was conducted June 22-July 5 among 1,005 likely voters in California’s upcoming November general election. To enable the poll to more closely examine the preferences of the state’s racial/ethnic voter populations, the survey was conducted in six languages and dialects – English, Spanish, Cantonese, Mandarin, Korean and Vietnamese."

Right, THAT'S an accurate representation of the CA public

"Voters age 18 – 29 age are supporting the marijuana initiative 52% to 39%."

Do you really believe that just half of this age group wants legalization? A more accurate poll would find at least 70% of young voters in favor, imo.

November is still a loooonggg way off, so those who don't want this to pass, go out there and get it shot down, those who want it to pass, go out there and spread the word. At this stage in the game it can easily go either way.

The real question is do you think half of that age group actually gets out and votes

 

[CaptainTrips]

and why is this true?

wouldnt a legal market drop the prices?

Prop 19 doesn't create a legal market though. Like ive said before, if prop 19 mandated a legal market, set licensing fees, taxes, etc for commercial operators, etc. I would be far more likely to vote for it. They just passed it off to local governments which for the most part will not allow sales. And the ones that do, such as Oakland, it will likely be a very limited number of people who will get in on a legal market. They are already trying to do that without prop 19.