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G
Guest
Yes it is and I'm returning the meter for another version. I didn't realize it only went to 20,000 lumen...I thought it said 200,000 (I was AK47ed) 
So I'm going to get the one that goes up to 400,000 lumen instead and has 4 selectable settings for MH, HPS, FL or Daylight...a far better tool I think.
I see what you are saying however, I've backed my light all the way to the ceiling and I'm still getting 20,000 on the very edge of the table, but under by just a foot and its off the scale still...my calculations probably about 60K Which is way too much..I was seeing rubbery looking leaves and thick growth..usually a sign of DNA damage. I keep forgetting how intense those 1K Horolux are...they throw some powerful rays. But the temps are golden...so I was getting cocky. :smile:
But even now...they'll probably be much happier. I need the more accurate tool.
I can't wait to check my floros out, however...that will be tres telling.
I love seeing shit grow..its the bomb.
about 16 days
So I'm going to get the one that goes up to 400,000 lumen instead and has 4 selectable settings for MH, HPS, FL or Daylight...a far better tool I think.
I see what you are saying however, I've backed my light all the way to the ceiling and I'm still getting 20,000 on the very edge of the table, but under by just a foot and its off the scale still...my calculations probably about 60K Which is way too much..I was seeing rubbery looking leaves and thick growth..usually a sign of DNA damage. I keep forgetting how intense those 1K Horolux are...they throw some powerful rays. But the temps are golden...so I was getting cocky. :smile:
But even now...they'll probably be much happier. I need the more accurate tool.
I can't wait to check my floros out, however...that will be tres telling.
I love seeing shit grow..its the bomb.
about 16 days
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G
Guest
OK, well...lights on this morning... the Peacekeeper is scaring me...IT is like a freak of nature...I don't know what is going on. It looks like it will eventually be a fuckin' tree for real. Its as thought I've changed its genetics and it is now a ficus bush!
Interesting, however, the light meter readings this morning...I'm getting 20K lumens at table level to the edge from 4.5 feet up. I walked out the minimum vegging area and I could easily do an 6 by 8 foot area staying around 5,500 lumen (sunny day in summer). These lights are really that strong. Right now, even against the ceiling I'm getting a reading over 20K all the way from the center out to about a 3 foot diameter where I pick up the 2100 x 10 mark. AT TABLE LEVEL!
The canopy is over 20K so there is no worry there and I have once again been frying my poor plants with like 120,000 lumen during early veg. No wonder they get so thick and fuckin' rubbery. Shit... smack my ass. Dumb bitch. (SMack)
The HOG mom (which is one of the furtherest from the light) is loving it.
Probably most of this other shit isn't as much nutrient related as much as just stress related....glad I thought to get this toy. I'll be even happier with the new one that goes up to 400K JAT, once again you'll beat me to the punch. Bastard!
I'll see what giving them 4 feet of airspace will do. A week should tell us.
Cool look at the Cinnamon's roots They are mediumless seedlings.
Interesting, however, the light meter readings this morning...I'm getting 20K lumens at table level to the edge from 4.5 feet up. I walked out the minimum vegging area and I could easily do an 6 by 8 foot area staying around 5,500 lumen (sunny day in summer). These lights are really that strong. Right now, even against the ceiling I'm getting a reading over 20K all the way from the center out to about a 3 foot diameter where I pick up the 2100 x 10 mark. AT TABLE LEVEL!
The canopy is over 20K so there is no worry there and I have once again been frying my poor plants with like 120,000 lumen during early veg. No wonder they get so thick and fuckin' rubbery. Shit... smack my ass. Dumb bitch. (SMack)
The HOG mom (which is one of the furtherest from the light) is loving it.
Probably most of this other shit isn't as much nutrient related as much as just stress related....glad I thought to get this toy. I'll be even happier with the new one that goes up to 400K JAT, once again you'll beat me to the punch. Bastard!
I'll see what giving them 4 feet of airspace will do. A week should tell us.
Cool look at the Cinnamon's roots They are mediumless seedlings.
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G
Guest
LoL PR
G
Guest
BTW - Everyone, just want to say the thread looks beautiful!
BTW - Everyone, just want to say the thread looks beautiful!
I was also playing with the floros and guess what....useless beyond a foot. lol No shit. Wow... it drops from 5,000 lumen to about 1000 about 10 inches from the bulbs, beyond 14 inches its down to like 500 lumen. You must target the canopy between 3-10 inches from the lights for maximum effect or the plants take a lot less light than thought. Really surprised they were so low such a short distance away. Right up against them they barely get over 4800.
The 1K HPS however throws 2200 lumen all the way across the room about 10 feet away where the vegging clones are sitting.
This is only one set of floros and is only a standard 40 watt daytime floro bulb. Not the T5 or anything fancy.
And...it ain't no 5,500 lumen outside my house! I can't get near the sun without ---- out. That's 20K lumen...so I'm not sure where the hell this 5,500 lumen shit came from at NASA...I'm going to have to go back and research that shit, cause my empirical evidence IS to the contrary.
BTW - Everyone, just want to say the thread looks beautiful!
I was also playing with the floros and guess what....useless beyond a foot. lol No shit. Wow... it drops from 5,000 lumen to about 1000 about 10 inches from the bulbs, beyond 14 inches its down to like 500 lumen. You must target the canopy between 3-10 inches from the lights for maximum effect or the plants take a lot less light than thought. Really surprised they were so low such a short distance away. Right up against them they barely get over 4800.
The 1K HPS however throws 2200 lumen all the way across the room about 10 feet away where the vegging clones are sitting.
This is only one set of floros and is only a standard 40 watt daytime floro bulb. Not the T5 or anything fancy.
And...it ain't no 5,500 lumen outside my house! I can't get near the sun without ---- out. That's 20K lumen...so I'm not sure where the hell this 5,500 lumen shit came from at NASA...I'm going to have to go back and research that shit, cause my empirical evidence IS to the contrary.
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G
Guest
My meter reads footcandles and I've tried to make sense of the readings and have not found a logical lumen reading from my lights or direct sun. Does not seem to match up to what they should read so I just use it to measure light strenght by the footcandle reading and gave up on trying to find out the specific lumens.
After you have your meter for a while I'll bet you woner how you got along without it for so long. The t5's light diminishes very fast as well but starting with a higher output it's not so bad.
That Cinnamon is crazy! Wonder if it's gonna pack on the heavy buds at the same rate.
After you have your meter for a while I'll bet you woner how you got along without it for so long. The t5's light diminishes very fast as well but starting with a higher output it's not so bad.
That Cinnamon is crazy! Wonder if it's gonna pack on the heavy buds at the same rate.
G
Guest
Oh I can only hope. lol The sister is short and packed, it is very odd.
This meter reads both Footcandles and Lux (which I can't get a straight conversion on). I've always assumed it was a 1 for 1 thing with Lux, but then I read its a power or 10...I donno. The new meter has both plus settings for each lighting source...so that should help.
But just my own experience, I'd say my full sun here in South Florida is more like 60 - 80K of lumen in direct light, just from the feel of it. The radiation here is so hot you can't comfortably put your hand out for a long time...so its probably as hot as a 2' 1K lamp. But because this meter only goes to 20K I can't really find out yet.
But in time, I will..and yeah...like every tool, once you get used to it you never know how you survived without it. But just don't buy shit stoned cause you don't read all the fine print.
But now when I walk in my growroom the temp. and light feel like a summer's day with a nice breeze. Its actually very pleasant, I think the girls will enjoy that a lot more. The Peacekeeper is going to be a huge ass plant if and when she gets done. I just can't believe she is this bare still 5 weeks into flower...really odd, but maybe just a really slow Sativa. She looks might healthy though...strongest plant by far on the table, nice thick strong branches and little red in the stems anymore.
Only time will tell I'm afraid. :smile:
This meter reads both Footcandles and Lux (which I can't get a straight conversion on). I've always assumed it was a 1 for 1 thing with Lux, but then I read its a power or 10...I donno. The new meter has both plus settings for each lighting source...so that should help.
But just my own experience, I'd say my full sun here in South Florida is more like 60 - 80K of lumen in direct light, just from the feel of it. The radiation here is so hot you can't comfortably put your hand out for a long time...so its probably as hot as a 2' 1K lamp. But because this meter only goes to 20K I can't really find out yet.
But in time, I will..and yeah...like every tool, once you get used to it you never know how you survived without it. But just don't buy shit stoned cause you don't read all the fine print.
But now when I walk in my growroom the temp. and light feel like a summer's day with a nice breeze. Its actually very pleasant, I think the girls will enjoy that a lot more. The Peacekeeper is going to be a huge ass plant if and when she gets done. I just can't believe she is this bare still 5 weeks into flower...really odd, but maybe just a really slow Sativa. She looks might healthy though...strongest plant by far on the table, nice thick strong branches and little red in the stems anymore.
Only time will tell I'm afraid. :smile:
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G
Guest
Here's a neat little conversion table...seems like the variance comes from the lumen as it's a measurement of light strenght over a given space and not light strenght alone... 
http://online.unitconverterpro.com/unit-conversion/convert-alpha/illumination.html
http://online.unitconverterpro.com/unit-conversion/convert-alpha/illumination.html
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G
Guest
Well then that makes a little more sense. 5,500 lumen is 59,202 lux (which is what my meter reads) it also read foot candles, but I don't recall what the measurement was. But that seems more like what I'd guestimate as the outside intensity based on that meter.
Good tool to have, thanks GN...I'll bookmark that one.
How's the rig holding up today?
Good tool to have, thanks GN...I'll bookmark that one.
How's the rig holding up today?
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G
Guest
I'm seeing the stems purple up a bit and it seems like they aren't doing much growing on top at all but the roots are growing good. I hope it's just a small case of transplant shock. They were nice 'n cozy in the cloner at 75f and now it's been 65f in the box so I hope they are just adjusting. In the past I have seen them stall for a couple days as they adjust.
Some of the tap roots are almost reaching the floor (2 feet). Some good fish bone shapes appearing too. I'll have some pics tomorrow.
ppm= 575
ph= 5.4
root zone temps= 65 average
room temps= 65-70 I'm tuning my exhaust fan to bring the temps up here.
thx
Some of the tap roots are almost reaching the floor (2 feet). Some good fish bone shapes appearing too. I'll have some pics tomorrow.
ppm= 575
ph= 5.4
root zone temps= 65 average
room temps= 65-70 I'm tuning my exhaust fan to bring the temps up here.
thx
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G
Guest
Looks ideal, they'll be up and budding in no time. The stems are probably just from the cold. I'm finding that now that I backed off the interrogation light the girls were tips up rather than tips down at lights out. Always a good sign. I freakin' hate frying my babies, its just such a retarded thing to keep doing...but I will eventually learn, just like the floatvalve! Interesting note JAT - I decided to swap out my nute mix early, tomorrow being friday, and since I can't get a clear answer from anyone about the DM1 ppms I decided to try a little experiment of my own. What I decided was to just do like everything else and use a ratio for their mix. It appears to me that a nice solid base of about 800 ppms of Flower and a close to 50/50 makeup on the Max/Pot+ to 1200 ppms would do the trick. I did it all really slowly with half a cap at a time and oddly ended up adding a lot more than I remembered doing before. About 2 full caps each for my little 8 gallon res. along with the Flower (which was just poured till I hit 800). The interesting thing was when I put my Ph probe back in to adjust it was spot on 5.7! I did decide to tap it down with the a little more P to 5.4 just cause I don't see any reason to be higher for now and want the extra P in the mix, but this should allow for not only correct ratios of the ONE, but also of the series leaving a shitload of P/K available with Ca and Mg as well. So, I'm going to see how the reduced lighting and reduced nutrient regime fare. They look totally beat to death right now, the lag in seeing the cook job and ph flux I think 1800 might be too high. However, time will tell now that I have control of all the elements including the light intensity.
But thought it nice how it landed just so on 5.7, I think with a slightly higher ONE level (maybe 900) that might drop to 5.6 when finished, with no adjustment. I like when they balance out like that without aid, I feel like I mixed it correctly. Anyhow..that is that.
MY advice as well from my personal experience, veg all Indie dominant to 10 or 12" pre-flower, Sat dominants can go in zero veg., however Indies..for sure need development ahead of flowering it would appear.
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JustATry
Member
Yeah, I just did a rez change last night. But I still don't understand why your TDS levels are so much lower.
I am sitting at 1750-1800 right now with a pH of 5.7-5.8. Did 44ml of Flower to 1400-1450, 6 ml of Potash+ up 150-200, 4ml of Max up 25-50, and 15 ml of Hydroguard up 25-50. Girls are looking healthy as can be.
On a side note, the other table is starting to catch up, and the root results are showing. I will post some pictures tonight but you can clearly see the EXL roots are getting bushier. Now if 'bushiness' is the key to monster buds, then EXL's are the way to go. Three more weeks will tell.
I am sitting at 1750-1800 right now with a pH of 5.7-5.8. Did 44ml of Flower to 1400-1450, 6 ml of Potash+ up 150-200, 4ml of Max up 25-50, and 15 ml of Hydroguard up 25-50. Girls are looking healthy as can be.
On a side note, the other table is starting to catch up, and the root results are showing. I will post some pictures tonight but you can clearly see the EXL roots are getting bushier. Now if 'bushiness' is the key to monster buds, then EXL's are the way to go. Three more weeks will tell.
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G
Guest
this shit rocks!
this shit rocks!
taken at 4 days in the new box..
This pic shows the purple stem. They stalled for a day and a half but bouced back.
Something I noticed.. when they stalled the plants looked just a tad droopy so I increased the off interval to 5 min from 3 min and it really made the lateral roots pop out the sides. A very noticable difference in 8 hours. The plants also perked back up. Maybe they were getting too much at this stage..
Needless to say I'm very impressed with this set up
this shit rocks!
taken at 4 days in the new box..
This pic shows the purple stem. They stalled for a day and a half but bouced back.
Something I noticed.. when they stalled the plants looked just a tad droopy so I increased the off interval to 5 min from 3 min and it really made the lateral roots pop out the sides. A very noticable difference in 8 hours. The plants also perked back up. Maybe they were getting too much at this stage..
Needless to say I'm very impressed with this set up
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G
Guest
Yeah..looking freakin' great there GN! That is the way to hit the TAE right out of the gate! You see the amazing growth already huh? lol
The cycles can't be much more than 4 minutes with the ultra fine foggers you have and you hit it, you need the 30/3 minute interval for that rig as you are using True Aero Nozzles..lol
I'll have to get some of dim...that shit looks sweet!
And yep, JAT is correct the XLs are the bomb for the cheapo version, it does make a considerable difference between the 50µ and 100+µ foggers. But everyone is looking smart for the races. Great work fiends!
Now dance my little monkeys—dance!
PS - JAT, my ppms if measured out correctly are like your own at like 1700. I just decided to run them at 1200 tops like the formula states rather than their mixing schedule. I really don't have a clear idea what the limit is on them yet, however I'm about to enter the 5th week so I'm holding it steady on what should be their top limit for flowering. Then I'll drop to plain water for the last week, though they say two...I just can't see that. The 1800 would be fine I'm sure for your tables with so many girls but I think I've only got a few real pigs this round as most of the zero veg TW didn't go anywhere as the Blueberry, so I don't need to be so high anymore.
I'm learning less is more..lol Trying anyhow.
That is the way to hit the TAE right out of the gate! You see the amazing growth already huh? lolThe cycles can't be much more than 4 minutes with the ultra fine foggers you have and you hit it, you need the 30/3 minute interval for that rig as you are using True Aero Nozzles..lol
I'll have to get some of dim...that shit looks sweet!
And yep, JAT is correct the XLs are the bomb for the cheapo version, it does make a considerable difference between the 50µ and 100+µ foggers. But everyone is looking smart for the races. Great work fiends!
Now dance my little monkeys—dance!
PS - JAT, my ppms if measured out correctly are like your own at like 1700. I just decided to run them at 1200 tops like the formula states rather than their mixing schedule. I really don't have a clear idea what the limit is on them yet, however I'm about to enter the 5th week so I'm holding it steady on what should be their top limit for flowering. Then I'll drop to plain water for the last week, though they say two...I just can't see that. The 1800 would be fine I'm sure for your tables with so many girls but I think I've only got a few real pigs this round as most of the zero veg TW didn't go anywhere as the Blueberry, so I don't need to be so high anymore.
I'm learning less is more..lol Trying anyhow.
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TAG-monk
Member
Ok just to be sure i have understand everything. The stem and branches = root. The bud thickness = hair on roots. In Soil, Hydro, Fag, the roots became super long because of the poor water/nutriment absorbtion of the hair. This make long skinny stem, with not too thick buds, and slow rippening. In TAG, the hair beeing push to the maximum of the nature capabilities, feed the plant perfectly, resulting in super hairy, sames length as plant, pom-pom roots. Making plant bushy and super productive. As you just said a couple post ago, no-veg indica clone seems to never "take off" as they simply dont stretch enough. However in a soil SOG, even the most indica dominant plant go at least 2x the height cause they never been vegged. So, that seems to prove that TAG is pure rocket fuel concerning efficiency as the no-veg indica clone dont need to stretch to fullfill is needs. Now my first question. is, in perfect TAE, a super-stretchy sativa, will see a dramatic bushyness increase (stretch decrease) over the same plant grown in soil, and do you have a ratio? heres a little schema to demonstrate what i say. (the dark grey beeing the hairs)
2nd question : PodRacer, do you have ever think to a drain-to-waste type of pod? is the water lost will be way to much to be managable? Maybe its a nice way to keep reservoir stable.
2nd question : PodRacer, do you have ever think to a drain-to-waste type of pod? is the water lost will be way to much to be managable? Maybe its a nice way to keep reservoir stable.
JustATry
Member
Alright, here are some comparison pics for Toro versus EXL.
First, the Toro table -
Secondly, the EXL table -
Now keep in mind there is about a 3 week difference in veg time between the two. The Toro table is almost all sativa's, while the EXL table is almost all indicas. Like PR said, indies need time to veg in tag. So now I will end up with some 5-10 gram buds that are really a whole plant.
I am actually thinking of swapping out the Toro's tomorrow for the bag of EXL's I still have. Just need to figure out how to get the lid proped up stably so I can work on the feed lines.
First, the Toro table -
Secondly, the EXL table -
Now keep in mind there is about a 3 week difference in veg time between the two. The Toro table is almost all sativa's, while the EXL table is almost all indicas. Like PR said, indies need time to veg in tag. So now I will end up with some 5-10 gram buds that are really a whole plant.
I am actually thinking of swapping out the Toro's tomorrow for the bag of EXL's I still have. Just need to figure out how to get the lid proped up stably so I can work on the feed lines.
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G
Guest
JAT - Be careful..that is what fucked me up on the Hammock/Verticle pods... Don't disturb this groove! If you can switch them out without any stress or drying to the roots go for it, but if you run the risk of drying your roots at this point DON'T! You are at a critical point in lift off, any malfunction at this point could be fatal for your girls. Just be careful, they have their hair down and are doing just fine. But, can't blame you ...I did the same thing. :smile:
TAG Monk - You got it buddy right on the nose. The shape is basically an hourglass shape, my Widows were almost perfectly equal. The indies need their stem lines up and running before they can compete with the Sats for dominance in TAG for some reason, but this might be my Uber Lighting that might also have stunted my growth and or nutrient regimes.
I think the issue is more the accelerated growth that screws up the indie in TAE. I think that the plant can manufacture enough to proceed to flower and stops with all the growth as that is only needed to reach adequate light levels. Being at like 90,000 lumen from day 7 they might have been a little over powered coming out of the shoots. I'm seeing a considerable amount of post-flower stretch now that I backed the light off about 2 feet. The Peacekeeper continues to sprawl out, but is rapidly loosing all red in the stems and looking heavy. She would be awesome to scrog, and I'm thinking of pulling her into her own Bubbler for just such a purpose as she is like way behind everything else on the table. But Sats tend to think longer in the flower so I think they can maintain a stretch even in adequate lighting whereas possibly the indies do not.
Something else I've noticed which might be of some interest. It would appear that the 3 pointed leaves that grow off the shoots are the factories for the buds themselves. I'm seeing that there are several 'specific' jobs for each and every part of the plant just like a colony of cells. The Fan leaves grow the stems and support water flow (underneathe as taps) and ontop the bud shoots form single and tri-bladed leaves that feed the buds (and again below it is the hair off the tap lines).
The Peacekeeper has shitloads of new shoots and tri-bladed leaves, which I thought might be DNA damage, but upon closer inspection I see they only exist on the bud shoots themselves. I notice that they run in a curve like the roots, 3-5-7-9-7-5-3-1 to the ends...everything is an eliptical orbit of distribution.
There may be ways to overcome this with the indies...but currently the Widows have preformed the best going in at 12" and the RhinoxBlue, NLxHaze, Cinnamon all take off even if they go in as tiny clones. Another reason to love Sats.
However in TAE you can easily veg to 12" in 2 weeks. No problem.
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G
Guest
OH, right..sorry. Stoned again. lol
I am not that familiar with it other than it seems like a waste of nutrients to me. I like the idea of recycling the nutrient mix until they've actually used most of it rather than flush it down the drain not to mention it is filled with the subculture your roots need, as there isn't really much place for them to hang out.
Not to mention as much as they drink in later flower you need a reserve of water for when they start to just inhale the water. Literally you will see them drink gallons daily. I just haven't really done that much research on it to be honest as this works fine as long as you adhere to the ratios and don't go crazy.
The problem is the system is so accurate that I can't tell if they can take more or less. Currently they are looking beat to hell like my Widows did after I tried to bake them at 2' with the 1K HPS. I really have to stop doing that. lol
You can see the different root development however. The Mature clones have their hair down and running in no time, the seedlings have multi-taps as she has a bunch of new shoots and branches (clone time!), and last the sickles are just straight little furry tubes..weird eh? But you can see...basically the same design as above the surface, just in reverse.
A mature clone..
The seedling Cinnatree 'Peacekeeper' (I gotta scrog this bitch!)
However the XLs are rocking the root world! Gia I love these shots! And the best for last...lol I'm such an ass!
This is about 28" of luscious goodness off the other RhinoxBlueberry. I really don't know which I find sexier the buds or the roots, I just love this shit. 
You really just do not see roots like this in any FAG system - TAG is a completely different animal and it reigns supreme in my book. :wink:
I am not that familiar with it other than it seems like a waste of nutrients to me. I like the idea of recycling the nutrient mix until they've actually used most of it rather than flush it down the drain not to mention it is filled with the subculture your roots need, as there isn't really much place for them to hang out.
Not to mention as much as they drink in later flower you need a reserve of water for when they start to just inhale the water. Literally you will see them drink gallons daily. I just haven't really done that much research on it to be honest as this works fine as long as you adhere to the ratios and don't go crazy.
The problem is the system is so accurate that I can't tell if they can take more or less. Currently they are looking beat to hell like my Widows did after I tried to bake them at 2' with the 1K HPS. I really have to stop doing that. lol
You can see the different root development however. The Mature clones have their hair down and running in no time, the seedlings have multi-taps as she has a bunch of new shoots and branches (clone time!), and last the sickles are just straight little furry tubes..weird eh? But you can see...basically the same design as above the surface, just in reverse.
A mature clone..
The seedling Cinnatree 'Peacekeeper' (I gotta scrog this bitch!)
However the XLs are rocking the root world! Gia I love these shots! And the best for last...lol I'm such an ass!
This is about 28" of luscious goodness off the other RhinoxBlueberry.
I really don't know which I find sexier the buds or the roots, I just love this shit.
You really just do not see roots like this in any FAG system - TAG is a completely different animal and it reigns supreme in my book. :wink:
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G
Guest
Episode 1 - Pre-Exodus PodRacer's Build out
As everyone has been asking for the DIY on all these rigs, here is the original TAG Racing thread prior to being infected by assholes and forcing our relocation this less hostile land. If you would like the full back-story on these rigs, and can sit around waiting for the pages to load, here is all the original dialogue and links to the ever popular R2G's battle, and subsequent demise, with the ignorant.
http://www.overgrow.com/edge/showthread.php?p=7918569
PS - JAT those roots look fuckin' Phat, oui..How do you keep from just diving into your tables and rolling around in them like a sick fuckin' puppy. Gorgeous...simply gor—geous!
As everyone has been asking for the DIY on all these rigs, here is the original TAG Racing thread prior to being infected by assholes and forcing our relocation this less hostile land. If you would like the full back-story on these rigs, and can sit around waiting for the pages to load, here is all the original dialogue and links to the ever popular R2G's battle, and subsequent demise, with the ignorant.
http://www.overgrow.com/edge/showthread.php?p=7918569
PS - JAT those roots look fuckin' Phat, oui..How do you keep from just diving into your tables and rolling around in them like a sick fuckin' puppy.
Gorgeous...simply gor—geous!
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