TAG - Landing (Resource for True Aero Growing)

[TAG-monk]

Thk! Jat and PR yours roots looks IN-CRE-DI-BLE. i hopes i will be lucky enough to got that first try. Ok now about my tag pod i think i have finished the major design parts. its a 5 foot by 10 foot table, under 3 x 1000watt MH, and 30 " root zone. So each light have to cover a 60" by 40" SOG canopy, wich seems perfect for yield an quality purpose. i will vegg them till 10-12 " (JAT, do u know how tall the clone can grow in the Ez cloner? from what i see in pictures 8"-10" seems resonable) Not sure now but 7 x 14 plant vegged 10" and 30" root zone should be best for that grow. I will use pond liner but do i have to insulate with styrofoam over that? or it wil be useless? The pod of JAT dont have any foam and its running great.

 

[Guest]

You don't need the foam TM, I originally thought I could get away with just the foam and no liner, but I couldn't. The foam board for my purpose was a cheap, light solution to using plywood, which you'll find is extremely heavy and awkward to work with as I can lift my entire grow with one hand and pulley. The pond liners are just a great, heavy duty, way to build the pod as a bladder and they do work very well, avoiding any sharp screws or nails.

The clones should be perfect at that height. Here is the size I usually recommend for TAGing indies.


They could be a little smaller, but you get the idea. This is a 1 month's vegged clone. As you can see the tap systems were already in place. From there they just blow out.

This was too small for flowering the TrainWreck, oddly.




As you can see from the original cast:




You can see the MH doesn't allow much stretch at all. The Peacekeeper didn't stretch until I switched the MH to HPS Full Spec. But here are some pictures today at lights out. I'm seeing shitloads of damage on my older fan leaves, something definitely went wrong here...but not sure what yet.



I put in a new Res for SkyWalker as the other one was just too small. This one will allow for a lot more water to be inhaled in the next couple of weeks.



Note: The added volume of water (adding pressure in) seems to quiet the pump considerably. I only get a bounce in the line with a small res full of water, anything more than 20 gallons above the pump intake and I can't even hear it working outside the room.

 

[Guest]

Skywalker 5th week of Flower Ya'll

Skywalker 5th week of Flower Ya'll

Yes, I have way too much free time sometimes. And yes, some of the plants have moved around the table obviously...but gives you an idea what the growth is like in 5 weeks, most clones were too small and there were 5 seedlings, one didn't make it. But basically the entire table is a zero veg, the seedlings got 5 weeks, clones about 2 weeks after cut.

 

[TAG-monk]

wheres the K+ button? lol nice effect. Yeah i think i got the idea,..the ez cloner will probably enough for most of the vegg,..if they need a couple more inch , 1 week in the table will do the tricks. now i just have to wait to have established mother..

 

[JustATry]

PR - that gif is tits! Did you have a tripod that you left the camera on or did you just eye the pic?

Well, my fucking index finger has a big as blister on it from changing out foggers. I had to remove 60 Toro foggers, install 60 goof plugs, repunch 60 holes, and install 60 EXL's. And that blister is there to prove it!

No dry down time or anything. I would change out 5 then let everything cycle, so it worked out well. Now we will have to see how the big girls like the new spoon.

 

[Guest]

Thx, it is actually just from standing in the same position and shooting. I had to do a little Photoshop work on it, but it lined up so sweet I thought "I have to animate this". So I did. :smile:

JAT - Why didn't you just put in a new poly line like I did. I figured it was worth the $12 to just redo the freakin' line.

 

[JustATry]

I wanted to just put in new poly but I couldn't. I didn't have anything to support a 4x8 sheet of plywood with 3' of roots. So I just had to move the lid around giving me enough room to change out the foggers. Plus I have all my line screwed into the frame and it wouldn't have been feasible to unscrew everything right now.

 

[Guest]

That's understandable. That was my luck having only one running I could just move them over to work on the other one. I still need to update Vader's foggers, but I haven't got any clones for Vader yet, so that is at least a month off.

That is the one thing I do like about the R4, I put a pulley on my light track (an old mirrored door slider) and connected it to the support brace and I can just hoist up the entire sheet, plants and all, with one hand to guide and maneuver and the other to hold the pulley line keeping the sheets up in the air. With plywood that would be a major PITA for sure. Hence my move to R4, though not rigid enough, I'd like to find something a little more rigid and compressed, but only just slightly, as this does work very well.

My room and root temps are holding at 68.9F with just my Stanley blower and light running. No hood, A/C set at 71F, its sort of weird. It must be the evaporative cooling from Skywalker, but the room is doing awesome with this new convection setup. I'll draw an illustration if I can.

Post some pics JAT...No fair having me hog the visuals here. You've got prime root porn to show, and soon...Bud Porn!

 

[Guest]

Nice photo work Pod, looks killer. The peacekeeper cinnamon looks like it came outta nowhere. She puttin on any weight yet?

I'm still dealing with a bounce problem. I did some mods and it went away for a good day and I thought it was gone for good but it seems to pop up again intermittantly. Not sure what to try next...

 

[Guest]

Some advice would be to increase the pressure on the intake. I have found that you need a certain amount of 'weight' on the intake line of water that will quiet that bounce. I noticed it much more with the smaller res, or if the pump had to suck water up first before pressurizing it for the line. With a deeper res and more water I found that the pump quiets way down, which is why I put it on the bottom now hooked directly to the res.



I noticed this as I was filling the smaller res with water while the pump was running. As the water level went up the pump started to quiet the bounce down, finally when I put in the new res, it stopped completely, which tells me the best design is to have it at the bottom of the res (the intake) and always under pressure. Now all I hear is a hiss.

Here is the schematic of my room layout, if you can follow it. The airvent to the room is above the door and gets sucked through the blower and a 2'x3' hole in a makeshift wall partition I built before running into the cooling channel of Skywalker (also across both res containers) around the entire grow and then towards the A/C intake (which is the handler) so it pulls from inside and outside the room at the same time.


Amazingly this has allowed my room to remain at almost a constant 70F with the A/C set at 71F with the door open, much colder if I close the door, but it also keeps the A/C running longer. With the constant circulation the air moves quickly through the room picking up moisture and cooling the room and pods and their reservoirs before hitting the evaporative coils on the air handler where the moisture is removed (aiding the A/C units job) and returning cold dry air back to the room where it is pulled through the 'vegging' area and back through the room again. Being heated and then picking up moisture from the pods and plants. The circuit is almost a complete circle of balanced exchange so I have the blower on the lowest setting and only running during the day.

Huge difference from when I had the circulation blocked and was using an EvaPod to cool and still above 72 most the time. The proof that circular orbits require much less energy than elliptical ones. So the lesson is, if you can create a circulation flow that is a closed circular circuit of evaporation and condensation heating and cooling you'll find it takes less and less Electricity or Energy to run your grows and the TAG Pods have a built in Evaporative cooling effect you should capitalize on, as it is like solar energy...free for the taking of advantage of.

Now I must go prepare for my hurricane — again! Christ...no rest for the wicked, I tell you. They DO deserved to be stoned, don't your think?

As for the Peacekeeper...I do now know what the hell that is about. She looks like a piece of Bamboo in the middle of the freakin' table. Really queer. Has some pistils, but...no just taken her time like the 12/12 isn't enough. It is almost as though she wants me to push her into 8/16 or something or I donno. The others look like they are about 3 weeks away, which is on schedule, but this one sole plant could go another month or 2 I have a feeling. I think I have found a truly Sativa version of this (I'm guessing) Hybrid. She is known for her Euphoric high and sativa dominant buzz...maybe I just got the original mom's line. Which wouldn't bother me a bit. But I'll have to aim on her being a 3 month flower if that is the case and run them talller into trees. I swear I can take about 12 - 15 clones probably right now..and might by the end of the day. I just hope she is a mutant sterile bitch or something ugly like that...but right now she looks like Bamboo...I kid you not...everyday is another 3" of growth and another shoot. Weird...really weird, but like I said before...I always get one strange freak show every grow and to date they've all been good freaks (knock on wood). So, fingers crossed she is a super Sat Cinnamon Tree maker and I'll bio bucket her ass into a tree grow! All hail the Sativa Dominant!

 

[Guest]

Thanks Pod, I'll have a look and see if I can get the pump lower to flood the intake better. I have a new toy to install also....



Looks like your air temps and circulation are dialed now . I still have to work on that here. finding the right combination of things is a lot of work for sure but very satisfying when it's up and running tits. I have to dial in my exhaust fan timer, light cooling fans, and I may change the location of intake air.... fun, fun, fun...


Sucks about the hurricane.. Is power loss the main concern for you? homeowners ins. must be a bitch out there.

 

[Guest]

Yes, that is precisely what fucked my grow last year. We had two a month apart so I lost power twice. Lucky for me I'm on a grid with a major Hospital, Blood Bank and Schools so I get my power back the quickest in the city...outside of the truly Wealthy.

Membership does have its privilges. :smile:

Cool meter GN, I'm sure you'll have no problem trickin' your rig, you do such a pro job on everything. It makes my MacGuyver handyman specials look like a treehouse.

But, speaking of which...I figured some pictures to brighten our grey day here.

First the view and blower and the temps. I mean...50% humidity on top of it...yeah baby!


Outside its:

Here is the Peacekeeper. Pistils, branches and sister.



No?



This is her less than 30 days ago...

Its funny, all my buds that were under the hotspot are now stretching out. Nothing like Bonsaing your grow...

 

[whereisbrianV.]

You guys are kicking ass, Jesus it is a full time job to try to keep up with you. After a long wait my Purple Star seeds sprouted 10/10, hopefully with my ethylene (cucumber) treatment I will get 7 or so females. I will let them grow in the RR until I get my FAE cloner built, then I will drop them to 12/12 and see what hangs and what doesn't. Things should start picking up around here now that I have babies popping, maybe I can actually start contributing to the tread now. Can't wait to have trees in my closet! Peace and long live the DOA.

 

[Guest]

Hey bV. where is that last shot from? What a pastorial setting. Can't wait to see your trees either! I've of course fucked up and went slamming into the rail. Not sure where I lost control of my rig, but I've totally fucked the plants for a bit. I think it was the addition of that HD Mg suppliment. I think that it locked out a shitload of Ca and upset the balance in the DM1 formulae. I'm seeing Ca def death blotches everywhere now... I'm fuckin' bummed out. But they are still flowering and stretching a bit more, so who knows...they may recover and live to produce something of use. Fingers crossed. I totally feel like I rolled it though. Hopefully I can get back up in the front of the race again here shortly.

Did my first foliar feeding on the clones. Went well and they look like they really liked it. How often can I use this Folitec crap? Twice a weeks tops?

 

[Guest]

Brian V, anxiously awaiting to see the work of art up and runnin. Checked out what you have done so far.. looks bitchen.

The trimeter is going back... not a really good product IMO. I only got as far as calabrating the EC probe and had probs. It would read fine if I scooped up some water from the rez and tested it in the plastic bowl but when I placed the probe in the rez where it should be it would go up between 150 to 200 ppm and keep changing??? I though maybe there is somthing with the rez in coating or screws near by, whatever, causing it to read funny but my trusty hanna pen reads the same in both the bowl and rez. like it should. Don't need to spend $230 on any new problems.. The calibration screws are super touchy as well. Just put the screwdriver in and think about turning it and the meter jumps by 200 ppm. I like things that work right..

Sucks to hear that Pod, hope it won't take much to get back on track. You still have 3, 3.5 weeks to go right?

 

[Guest]

Yes, barring this hurricane.

We'll have to see. Apparently, I'd say, the Mg supplement was far too strong, which I've done before with Fish Fert. Its meant to be diluted into water and then poured over soil for trees, so it was probably way too strong I suppose and locked out all the Ca. in the system. It was only in for about 3 days, but now about 2-3 days later all my Fans and some new leaves are all spotted with Ca def and looked like shit. So I trimmed off all the dead shit, luckily there is a lot of new growth around the budsites, and I figure I'll see how they respond.

Oddly I must comment, The HOG mom that I am re-flowering has not suffered at all through the entire experience. I went to take off her dead leaves and there were none. The entire bush is just dark green and still very healthy despite the ph flux and Mg ordeal. A real trooper I'd say. A lot like the Oasis.

I did the exact same thing with the Widows as I dropped my 1K Horilux down to about 2 feet off the table with a hood. The lumen were probably like 110,000 which just blistered the poor bitches. I think I've done similar damage again, but this time caught it in time...I hope. The flowers look fine, thank Gia, but all the major fans that are older than a week or so are gone now.

This was sort of a fucked grow anyhow as I don't have my shit together for it. Once these new clones veg out and I get a real crop going like JAT's or yours GN I'll be ready to pay better attention not to try and irradiate their DNA too much and I've got a decent working Ph meter now.

GN - Sorry to hear that trick looking meter was bogus. I get that sort of reading sometimes on my TDS meter as the nutes adjust...but it eventually hits a constant level after a couple minutes, but sometimes these produces are just shit.

What brand was that meter? My Ph controller is a Milwaukee.

I wonder if JAT experienced anything like that from using the CalMag Plus? I think any addition outside the DM1 line really upsets the ratios they have established...apparently. Ca being the main issue. The supplement I used, only about two capfuls, eventually turned my water all murky as it seemed to be converting into some sort of gunky mess...so after a few days I just swapped out for new fresh DM1 (which is always clear). They are all happy again, but the damage takes a couple days to show up if not a week. So..this is all from shit last week. Let's just hope my power stays on.

 

[Guest]

i think you're gonna need to do some serious battening down o' tha hatches, man, Stay Safe etc.

 

[JustATry]

Sorry guys, been away in Vegas losing my ass. I have yet to win out there, fuckers always take my money!!

GroNut - I had a buddy who used one of those "three combo readers" and he absolutely hated it. He said he would rather use pH paper than calibrate that shit every couple of days. You would think for $300 they would get the shit working right or maybe not.

PR - you be careful man. That shit just tore through Cancun and is heading your way. You may want to think about renting a generator from HD for the time being, just incase. Honda makes these new "Super Quiet" generators that can barely be heard standing next to them. I am sure there are rental places in your area that have these. You can toss one of these on your balcony and run a higher guage extension cord inside. I keep one in my race trailer for emergencies and it has saved me numerous times.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp#

I ran the CalMag with the DM1 for a couple days until I saw my rez changing from a clear purple to a cloudy brown. After that I dumped the rez and replaced with DM products only. Oddly enough, I am still running 1800-1900 PPM and they love it. Leaves are pointing almost straight up. The rust spots I posted pics on before have not progressed anymore that they already were. I am totally happy with the DM line thus far.

PR - maybe the problems you are seeing is from the lower TDS levels?!?! I am not really seeing anything you are and we are pratically identical. I have been running DM's regime and shit has been better than I have ever run before. PH will jump up to 6.0-6.2 every couple of days but I just knock it back down to 5.6 each time I check the ladies.

The EXL's are the way to go forsure. You should see the lateral growth on my table I swapped to the EXL's. They are going to be atleast 8" around and 3' longs root masses. Pretty incredible IMHO. I really think the Toro's are going to be better for initial help in rooting of clones versus TAG. There is just too much volume being emitted and it's defeating the principle of TAG, so EXL's for sure. Oddly enough, with the 200 mesh filter, I have yet to have one fogger clog on either table.

So here are week three pics. Everything is going well and I am really excited to see what the next couple weeks are going to entail.

 

[Guest]

What goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas, this means your money fool! lol

What goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas, this means your money fool! lol

"Holly Shit", JAT...that is what I said when I saw your canopy. Shit! Awesome TAG.

I agree. I think they can do just fine at around 1800. I'm pretty convinced it is the supplement fuck up. I had the exact same thing as you experienced, going from pretty clear purple to shitty brown murky water, which tells me it fucked up the DM1's ratios and matrix. I think the addition of outside Ca and Mg maybe causes all the other shit to precipitate out, once back to straight DM1 line they perk right back up. I was at like 1900 this morning.

I think I just got to see what those speckles eventually evolute into.

But you are set buddy. Go TAG Team Racer, Go!

I agree on the XLS foggers as well. True to the science the closer to a mean 50µ droplet you get the closer to perfection you get. Otherwise it become a NFT setup for sure.

Also with the filter. With the DM1 and a 200 mesh filter I think you could be ok with the XLS foggers, especially now I know how to clean them and what have you. I do still intend to buy the ones like GN is using...cause that shit is sick.

Hey...Willllllmmmmaaaa! Yeah, had to go there.

The hurricane is blowing over right now. Its about 30 mph winds at 3 AM. It is supposed to travel over us in about 6 hours total and tomorrow night (after the 70 mph gusts) is to be clear and nice. Just like yesterday, it was actually quite beautiful here.

I don't anticipate having too much loss of power, like I stated before I'm on a grid with Hospitals and Schools so they pop us up before anyone else. Its a nice perk to being in the City so to speak. I will have to get a Generator however, that is a very good idea.

JAT - I wonder if we should just let the ph go up to 6.0 I see my ph do the exact same thing every couple days regardless of the setting. (Currently at 5.4...but by morning it will 5.8 for sure and eventually 6.0 again) Maybe that is why we see the K/Mg and Ca lock out, maybe the DM1 is suppose to run at 6.0 to allow for elevated Mg absorption? The K is better absorbed at higher Ph levels like 6.0 than the N as well. Maybe we are fighting the system here and should just let it stand at that level? What do you think?

According to these charts (though how accurate I can't verify) it would appear 5.4 would be ideal and 6.0 would be not the greatest, but maybe DM1 has a compensation for that and is supposed to run at 6.0. I do love their product, if only we can figure out what the deal is on running it successfully in TAG. Though it looks like you have. We just need to keep the competitor products out of the res I suppose.



My thinking is this on it: If we are at 6.0 normally at the correct ppm level then the addition of Ph down (P) is just adding more P to the mix. It doesn't really matter if you are lowering the ph or adding P as its the same effect. However I don't see any sign of P def, which is why I think possibly they have that covered in their elevated ph range where they have that matrix of Ca/Mg and N/K bound up to work for them. It is a different system of delivering the Ca to the plant, so possibly there are sufficent levels of P and the ph should just be at 6.0 absorbing more K while allowing the N to be harder to absorb? I wish I could get ahold of anyone from DM, as I've yet to get an answer from any emails to multiple sources. But I think we are definitely in the zone.

I'm sure they'll recover well enough, just like you see they stall for a day or two after being run into the rails but they'll get up to speed in no time and be full throttle again. These pods still get away from me as they are just so fuckin' fast. But those roots look sexy as all get out. I'm so psyched.

 

[Guest]

Good luck there bro!