TAG - Landing (Resource for True Aero Growing)

[Guest]

Now if you really loved me you'd send me some dank bud as I'm smokin' street weed. Seriously though. I don't take myself nearly as seriously as it sounds, humor is an important part of life and is much needed. Just because the reality isn't what you want it to be, doesn't mean it isn't a fuckin' awesome paradise we live in, despite our own issues with dealing with it.

The only focus of the Ærocanna is to balance and perfect systems so they are ideal for the life they support. You will find the more systems you balance, the more you learn, the more you grow and your life improves. Eventually you can start returning your energy rather than having it taken from you, and you can verify and authenticate healthy energy sources for yourself instead of unhealthy imbalanced sources that will feed you contaminated information.

Don't believe me, believe your own eyes. Seek the truth yourself, you don't need anyone to 'tell you' what it is. If you can center yourself and balance your environment and practice your craft, you'll find it all starts to fall into place just like planets around the sun. How dense and powerful you get is entirely up to you.

That is your only free will, my friend...your only one.

OH and tip for breeder: Once you create a life (child) it is your Only priority. You are the cause of its failure if you AND accompanying energy provider do not focus your attention 100% to that child's TAE. If you do, they will become spectacular examples of human beings, just your plants.
If you neglect and ignore and underfeed them (energy) knowledge, nurture...you have imbalanced their system and are no responsible for supporting it until you can balance not only your own but theirs as well.

That is our problem, we have shitloads of imbalanced people bouncing around making more imbalanced people and not enough 'balanced' to right them all. Eventually it is a freakin' mess called us.

The reason I get flamed is that unbalanced people think that if they slam into you hard enough it will knock you off balance and expose your lie. This establishes to them that their own imbalanced system is as good as it gets and they don't need to do any more work to become balanced.

When they crash into me, I'm not a planet, I'm a star (no vanity, but cute punn) so they register absolutely no impact on my systems which is why they leave go out to other threads where they try and hijack energy and return to assault again, just like an orbiting comet or meteor, until they either sling off into another system to effect, or get absorbed into mine, or fall into a nice balance orbiting and 'exchanging' energy before amassing enough density to become their own star. At which point, like Purpleseed here or JAT or any of these others, they can move away to support their own systems without my influence. Carrying the Ærocanna and TAG along.

We were unfortunately prematurely bombarded by assholroids so their tutelage was not completely, sort of like young Skywalker leaving Yoda too soon to rescue his friends. He wasn't strong enough to confront the truth, until he returned and finished (And practiced) his teachings. Then he could defeat the evil Empire (Roman?) as a rebel Jedi of the Light (force - Ra?)

The Jedi understand the balance, what I'm revealing here isn't anything new or particularly startling, it has existed all along, we just haven't been evolved to 'see' it yet.

I'm like Yoda, I prefer to live alone in my jungle planet surrounded by nature and not people, as I find only balance in nature and not in people. If you come to me to learn, if I see you are not here to just rip me off, but plan to accept the entirety of the Force, then I will teach you. But it is not just light sabers and mind tricks, those are parlor tricks for the novice and immature.

Like Yoda, I understand the exchange and try not to waste mine. However, unless I want the Empire to win, I must aid where I can to those I can that are special enough to reach this point. What impact it has, it has, as it is its own destiny. I am merely soon to be an old Jedi Master and retire to my cave to enjoy my solitude and individual life. I share this only for those that care to continue the fight, I am too old and tired.

 

[whereisbrianV.]

PR- The cann/race example is the best metaphor I have heard on the subject. It is true that mostl of our genes originated in Africa. But this is not the Africa we know it was lush at the time of homos development. For whatever reason groups of Humans began to spread through Europe and Asia. The environments that Humans faced in these new lands made survival a much harder task. As an effect of these harsh environments only those with favorable characteristics survived long enough to pass genes and keep those genes alive long enough to reproduce also. The African environment shaped us more than any other because we developed more there than anywhere else but where our ancestors migrated created the different races we see today. Now with the world be so over populated we see the reversal of that time we as a species spent apart. Strikingly similar to the evolution of Canna one would be over looking the obvious to no see the coloration.

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sciences/LifeScience/HumanRaces/BiologyRace/BiologyRace.htm

 

[Guest]

Exactly bV., the entire manifold is transparent to all physical realities, that is what is so beautiful about it.

Like I found, the Neanderthals actually escaped from Africa with our line and lived side by side without much interaction for close to I believe 100,000 years. Where all the sudden, they just died out slowly as they just couldn't seem to evolve fast enough before dropping below critical numbers I suppose, that is still a mystery.

The Ærocanna can go even further still to correct the imbalance, that is the amazing thing and where I left off. I think I left that last post on a sort of negative (this is the problem) where as the rest of the equation is the solution, which is ever present in the Ærocanna manifold.

The solution is balance and educate for those that can be, and do it freely. They in-turn will balance their own systems as they become 'educated' with that energy. Its is the same here, I help you spin faster and faster so you produce more and more so you spin off and spin someone else faster and faster.

The corruption comes if you try to change my system to meet your own agenda or try to capitalize by selling my idea to another for 'dead' energy cash. Here you've re-introduced an imbalance and now its a stronger more damaging imbalanced system effecting others.

That is why you must always verify your energy to make sure it is pure and clean and that the source is pure and clean. If it isn't, you'll see the agenda and if strong enough, knock them away from you. sort of like using Tap Water verses RO, you know what is in your RO so you can compensate to keep your systems healthy. You don't in your Tap Water, so no surprise your systems experience lockout and chaos. Water of life must be transmuted from poison to harmless. The soothsayer gains 'vision' by transmuting the Breath of life (the Ærocanna) and Fruit of Knowledge (from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil) and through their own body system clean the canna breath in exchange for the power of insight through the Ærocanna.

To me they are like flies, I need no more money, no more fame, no more applause. I share this as my purpose as 'this' cell. I am here to enlighten your mind a little hopefully. Maybe it will inspire you to balance your life and your systems or at least recognize the imbalance. In a way I've done more for buddhism than most buddhist do. They are after all suppose to share the Dharma, if they know it. Which I do.


And the truth is we need every available asset and as little (blank) as possible as we are in a race...like I said, 99% of all life on Earth - Extinct.

You'll just find the more balance the system the less energy it takes the more it produces, just avoid any systems crashing into your own that are parasitic or extremely imbalanced. Its like receiving a gift of clones from someone that is infested with borg (spidermites), it seems like a really nice thought and gift, but they've gifted you with their imbalanced system, which now infects and destroys your own. These are people giving advice on aero on OG (not all, don't go there....most) which is why we had a conflict as I could not force the objective reality to support the designs they wanted to believe to be superior.
They also, crashing into my thread (system) and causing confusion and chaos tried to take my orbiting bodies to feed their own imbalanced Deathstar, which as you will find not only did their grows die so did their threads as everything they now touch they kill, because they have amassed supernegative energy in surplus they must now rub off on others just to stay around.

But I could go on, obviously, for pages and pages with example after example, but I am sure if you follow what I've written through this thread you'll easily master it on your own. It is sort of like re-evaluating your life and objectifying it so you can see it clearly. Where is all your energy Ra or Om going? Where is 'your' energy coming from? Are you stealing energy? Is someone stealing yours? Are you and those around you balanced? Where are the imbalances in the Environment? What environmental factors can you alter to correct the imbalance? Apply and see. It that simple.

So let us get back to rig building...cause that is fun for everyone, even the ignorant!

So, bV....where ya at on your Towers buddy? I'm dying to see those babies running...I'm whet with antici....pation.

PS...an seriously NO OFFENSE meant Avid (I know your heart is in the right place), but I'm still completely freaking out over the fact that you practiced buddhism for 42 year and could be so easily unstablized. That really blows my fuckin' mind, seriously, because after I had practiced Buddhism for as little as 2 years, you couldn't lift my ass off the ground. I, personally, would be ashamed that I had wasted 42 years to have learned so little and to still be so easily personally (even) offended. I'm sure you're going to come back with I'm a 'Zen' buddhist so we just believe in nothingness or a variation of Buddhism, but ...Buddhism came, like the concept of God, to one man. His name was Siddhartha, and he defined Buddhism and only he can make the 'changes' to fit your reality.
His original teaching are very devout, and aren't entered into lightly. By this point in your 'Buddhist' career you should be so far beyond any of this and could easily see the truth in my words.

Now, like I said. I see reality, I don't judge it, other than to reflect my own personal experience...as I just stated to Avid. I don't condemn you, hate you, want to insult you, or run you away (unless your an energy leech)...it is only my own reflection to myself if I were in your shoes. I mention it only that it should drastically alarm and hopefully insight you to question your beliefs a little more maybe as it doesn't sound like you've been taught by anyone that really understands Buddhism, like following people for years that have been running Aerotubes. You can preach till you're blue in the face that Aerotubes are True aeroponics, but anyone that practices TAG (specifically) or any True aeroponic method knows they are incorrect and should not be giving or teaching anyone the wrong information.

As I say to them, put your money where your mouth is, show me your aerotube roots that match my own, or my bud....or my plants period. Not that it is superior, it is just grown in the truth. Rot does not lie. lol

For myself, I absolutely enjoy solving the imbalances, it becomes an exciting game for me as I can apply it to every single atomic structure I am now never without the truth or the correct answer. How much more stable and content can a human be? I have no questions unanswered that I don't have the tool or key to unlock, it is only my own fragile mind I must protect, however...having already experienced the death of my Ego no disparity exists between the two. I welcome all intelligent and well founded arguments and points of view, as well watching others 'get it'.

Nothing excites or speeds my momentum more than to watch PurpleSeed 'get it' and apply it, and have success in his life. It validates me, yes, but more importantly it increases his speed and knowledge. That is why the Ærocanna is so important to me as to understand it is to not make mistakes or corrupt the energy exchange, so you don't ever run the risk of destroying others...just blinding them with the truth temporarily. They can decided to explore the light or run away. That is their free will.

 

[guineapig]

blessings be upon all the pod-people in all parts of the world.....let us discuss this life-force called Cannabis.....and thank heaven we live in a country where we can do so without fear.....well, more or less anyway.....

ok friends :friends: here we go (i love that smiley!)

i just finished talking about chelated nutrients on another thread and then i got to thinking.....what is the importance of using chelated nutrients in the true aero-canna growing environment? in hydroponic and soil environments it is clear to see how chelated nutrients are very important....."chelated" from the greek for crab claw to imply the "pinched" formation, occurs when a biological molecule becomes tightly bound up in a ring-like structure to either a natural or synthetic chelating agent (e.g. fulvic acid or EDTA).....in your hydro resevoir you don't want your nutrients running around in a non-chelated form, reacting with anything in that resevoir and creating salts which clog up the system and creates all sorts of problems from nutrient lock-out to pH fluctuations, etc.....and, in a soil environment, chelated forms of nutrients let nutrients sit around in a non-reactive form, preventing damage to the microbial and fungal environments therein.....but what about TAE? In this situation where you have pure energy transmission every 30 seconds or so, does it even matter if nutrients are chelated? maybe the chelated form would just slow the metabolism down as more energy must be put into unwrapping the ring-structure......are those Ionic nutrients chelated? probably so but i don't know for sure.....

also, this might be a silly question, but do the fungal mycorhizzae and beneficial bacteria (nitrogen-fixing and otherwise) have to be constantly applied in a TAE? I mean, there is no medium to provide anchors for these little friends.....do they just live in the masses of roots that are eventually formed? Is there a feeding schedule for mycorhizzal fungi and benefical bacteria or do you just apply as often as possible?

as far as plant varieties or plant "races" go, let us not forget that plants reproduce way more quickly than human populations.....therefore i consider ruderalis, sativa and indica as just different varieties of the same species....and i personally love the fact that all the species are getting back together and forming hybrids just like the humans who love these plants.....but many people are freaking out over this and are afraid that the genetics of the land-races are being compromised.....and, with crop eradication and prohibition, some of these land-race varieties are becoming "extinct".....but let's not forget how short of a time we are here on this planet.....the era of cannabis prohibition is just a blip in time and maybe the reunification of the cannabis species is just as ephemeral on a geological timescale......who knows....anyway, with proper selection we are beginning to create all these incredible varieties of cannabis.....just look at all the different varieties of dogs that are out there.....our work is just beginning....

somehow i find it easier to think on a geological timescale which probably explains the fact that i have trouble maintaining sanity and employment....and everyone laughs at me too.... hehe -kind regards, gp

 

[Guest]

Not at all, I laugh at only myself and those that share my insanity.

The AM/Nbac does not need to be reapplied ever, once established, unless you kill it off or develop an imbalance in your system do to other environmental factors.

They live on the root cells themselves, not so much in the soil. They extend out into soil as 'faux' roots or a sort that actually elongate an protect the plant. They're mission is to protect the root system, their home. So they inject into the cells and form a symbiotic relationship. From there they react to the environmental conditions, which is why we have experimented with CST (yes..another Acyronm...sorry) Controlled Stress Training, which is to apply a slight environment stressing agent to boost production, as their cultivation seems to increase the plant's health and resistance to stress.

AM react only to stressed plants outside of the minimal needed. Like I said before, they are an 'On' 'Off' Animal. They are either multiplying and working their little asses off or they are asleep and dormant or dead if not needed.

So, if you can maintain the ideal TAE, you don't have to concern yourself with re-inoculation, if you did in the first place. Your roots will develop AM/Nbac in TAG without any assistance, inoculation is just another 'faster' way to get to and ideal TAE for the root system.

I agree with races statements as well, I like variety and appreciate the diversity of our races and cultures. As in cannabis, having a wide variety ensures genetic health overall, which is why we have all our races still.

Like I mentioned before, it isn't that I would choose this reality, it is just the objective one that exists that I have chosen to accept rather than try and support the 'myth' as it takes too much energy to support delusion.

Now, for Chelated nutrients...that is very good question. I'm not sure I have the answer on that one, yet.

My initial stab at it would be that chelated nutrients are necessary to prevent lockout, and burn if chemically based. The reason to slow the absorption of N, or P is to prevent it from locking out others as well they are extremely acid and in heavy concentration would 'burn' the root hairs.

But, this is just an initial guess, I'll look further into this, of course.

That and like you said, having them come out of solution, would be the only real issue.

You may have stumbled onto an excellent consideration guineapig. Very good 'eye'. You are not incorrect in your understanding that you should be able to inject straight energy, however...like I did mention before as well, in the Ærocanna, too much energy too fast will burn and destroy...so even our education needs to be chelated. lol

It might just be a factor of nature. In-which case it is used to balance the system as neutrons balance the atom. But, like a star or photon, the closer to the energy you can get the faster you could go. So, if you could remove that condition or element in the environment (you'd have to balance on some other side) you could.

Maybe the other side of that equation would be the canopy. Like increased CO2 consumption or some form of more rapid respiration.

You want to make them bitches pant until they swell up you whore!

But excellent, that is what I mean, you are seeing and thinking how to improve your systems, watch what else you learn along the way.

This will validate or clarify any question, as you'll find even more questions and even more answers as you look closer. You'll be amazed at the completely different world of the microscopic as most all my 'profound' enlightenment came through research of the minute. As you dig deeper and deeper you'll see more and more manifolds that layer, you can almost see the evolution of life itself.

We'd have to research the chemical absorption of nutrients at that interface, between the AM/Nbac and root cell. It sounds like a lot, but really isn't you'll find. It will take you 15 minutes and you'll come back with a shitload of information to shift through.



Just like you can see here the cross section of the stoma where CO2 exchange takes place. Once you understand how the CO2 molecule is ripped apart and the Carbon taken and the O2 released or recombined, and how the guard cells are regulated and what environmental conditions dictate their opening and closing you have pretty much solved the entire issue with leaves. And even though you are programmed to immediate see it as being way too much effort to figure it out, you'll find it isn't as difficult or as complicated as you might think, these systems match your own city.
Everything is just a larger or smaller organic system. Transport, building, tearing down, moving, breaking down materials, manufacturing...it is identical on the microscopic level as well.



Look at that interface between root cell and how it gets the nutrient inside and up the stem. This is where you'll see I'm not a know-it-all or an arrogant prick as if I don't know something I'll tell you right up front. I don't know enough to educate you on that, but I will gladly learn with you so we may both share in the light.

But honestly, at the speed these plants grow, you will not need to accelerate or improve their TAE really. It might be a lost cause, because I'll tell you, they just fuckin' blow up in a TAE without hardly any help at all. So, it might not be cost effective that is all. I have a really hard time keeping up with them once they are rolling as it is, and like I said...these rigs are just like high performance racing pods, if you fuckup down the track at full speed you can very easily fly right through the wall into another room. You'll see as you step on the gas in flowering. You might want to start out a little slower I sure could have.

I'll hip you to a more pressing issue. You'll find your primary issue in TAG will be root temps. They are the hardest to regulate with pod design. I'm fuckin' doing backflips that my little blue pod (Skywalker I'm calling him) is holding my TAE so well. I'm still operating at 66F for Root temps which is awesome for TAE. Usually rigs will be in the upper 70's which you don't want. Learning how to balance your thermal environment conditions might be a better initial use of your attention.

We should also discuss that on the TAG - Nutrient thread and fill that sucker up with some FYI and 411. I don't want to be the only here doing research.

I break down into areas: Ventilation, rig and root zone, lighting and nutrient profiling. This allows me to attack the problem from the 4 corners of the environment and trap the TAE in the middle as I compress the energy and speed the center. Eventually, like you see, Skywalker doesn't need any special help maintaining the TAE currently. Minimal effort on my part and only one fan blowing. But we are still under floros and that may all change under HID, but we are about to find out aren't we?

 

[Guest]

JAT - I bet you this bad weed I'm smokin' is that Hindu Kush again,...how much you want to bet.

Now checking my rig this morning I found the Ph at 4.8 again. We aren't even in flower, but the ppms were holding at 550. So, checkin' the roots...they are fine, looking at the leaves ...looks like P and K def to me, they are tinting yellow inbetween the veins and tips are crisping. So I think, I'll tap it with K (ph up) and that bounces it right to 7.2 which tells me there was no K in the water so I added P (ph down), which took more than I would have guessed, which slowly brought it down to 6.0.

It would appear to me that in TAG these plants take a shitload of K. That is my only conclusion thus far. I see constant ph drops as they just seem to suck K like crazy. I'm thinking they would benefit from a 4-10-32 or something, I'm scared to try it....but they constantly show signs of K def at all points on the curve. I can't believe it would be lock out...I wonder why this is?

 

[KingRalph]

info galore!

anways, i'd imagine because of the ideal environment to induce such fast growth, the plants simply need a lot more K than usual for chelating purposes to support the rapid growth happening. adding a kelp extract would probably curtail this problem an be a lil more suitable than havin to use ph up for the K. dunno which kelp products would be best for your setup tho, there's gotta be a really clean extract so as to ensure your misters won't clog.

btw, enjoying this all immensely

 

[guineapig]

may as well kill 2 birds with 1 stone, though, and use the pH up for the K and then once the roots are happier with a normal pH add more K.....even with some sort of atomized kelp the plants would still burn through that like my guinea pig burns through a bag of lettuce.....he is doing so right now (lol)....

there must be something about the biochemistry of K that is the answer to this problem.....maybe all the nitrogen produced constantly by the nitrogen-fixing bacteria provides a buffer so when you stop adding N the system can still produce N......do they have a potassium-fixing bacteria? maybe we could invent one.....or coat the roots with little poly-acrylamide balls that store K and release it gradually once the primary stream of K (your nozzles) have stopped squirting.....

but learning about the molecular dynamics of K is probably a good place to start....the rest of that paragraph is probably grandiose nonsense sci-fi.....glad you are reading King Ralph.......i love this thread too.....-kind regards, gp

 

[KingRalph]

yeah woops, mixed up chelating with something else. i guess in a TAE there's not much to break down the kelp so it can't be that good of a way to infuse K. hmm, without delving into bio-chemistry for a solution (mainly because i can't hehe) i can only imagine the addition of a (semi?)constant dry fog with a dilution of the ph up as maybe an applicable way to keep the K in balance, or would that disrupt the effects of the intermittent sprays?

i'm really just speculating, thanks for puttin up with a rather scientific know-nothing sometimes we take for granted the biology when all we're around are the practical applications of the advanced science. so thanks for stickin with it and sharing

 

[Guest]

Oddly, checking later I found the ppms still at around 550 and ph still high at like 6.8 so I (trusting intution more than logic) added more Cal/Mag Plus (even though it is Nitrogen based and when mixed in my concentration was a ph of 6.3). Right after I added it I checked the water and it had dropped the ph to 6.0 on the dot. Botanicare's mark! So I'm thinking (and the CEO had told me) that the CAL/Mag must be a major component in the balancing of the system with Botanicare.

They had also suggested a Silica Pro as a chelation and Ph regulator as well. Here again it seems to be the balance that we must seek, not the strength. The fact that it all hit normal just tells me that there was a lock out caused by something (my guess is the lack of Ca in the water). But again, I don't know enough about chemistry to go that far in. I'll have to allow someone with prior knowledge to solve that one for me.

I am glad you all are enjoying this thread and aren't completely offended, it is surly not my intention. I have a tendency on certain strains to go into this very odd mystical place where I just start receiving all sorts of powerful connections and start to spew like a source. Its like tapping an oil well, it just comes gushing out all over and then we need to sift through to see what is valuable. lol

But, good thinking on the K...you are probably correct as I do keep forgetting how important K is to the plants. I'm just not use to it being such a high demand so early or so often as, again...raised with N being the priority in vegging.

From my own Nutrient thread: "Potassium is necessary for formation of sugars, starches, carbohydrates, protein synthesis and cell division in roots and other parts of the plant. It helps to adjust water balance, improves stem rigidity and cold hardiness, enhances flavor and color on fruit and vegetable crops, increases the oil content of fruits and is important for leafy crops. Deficiencies result in low yields, mottled, spotted or curled leaves, scorched or burned look to leaves.."

Which is what I see..lol

But just amazed that they might need much higher K values going into veg than anything...I should deal with this on the nutrient thread, but is anyone there but me? lol

This was the reason I got pissed off at Botanicare, because they promote their Power series as a one part formula...but it obviously isn't as you have to Cal/Mag and/or Prosilica to balance the system...so it isn't a one part.

I keep forgetting that, stoned. But yes, unless you use Tap Water (which Botanicare is designed for...oddly) you have to use the Cal/Mag to chelate the water so the abosorbtion is slowed I suppose.

Lend me your mind all...let us solve this as it is an obvious issue with TAG, I think the Ionic might solve this...but I haven't gotten my shipment in yet.

But the fact that the K is necessary for cell division and root growth and they have moved from a FAE to a TAE they may now all the sudden be packing on roots and sucking all the K out of the water to adjust for the immense root development. I do keep forgetting that TAG is about 30% so the K demands are probably going to be elevated by at least that much.

Time to dive into some research...expect some long ass posts on the Nutrient thread, I'm headed over there to do some work.

But I think that solved it, as I often see the black freckles of Ca def. in my skunk lines, I hold back thinking the Cal/Mag add too much ppms, but really they add hardly any, so I could up the amount like you would for Tomatoes. You are absolutely correct though, I think it is the excellerated growth...as both are needed for cell division and building, the Nitrogen can be absorbed from the air, so the Ca...which isn't mobile and leeched easily, and the K not found floating in the air, are probably more critical.

 

[Guest]

This is going to blow your fuckin' socks off, if it doesn't...it did my own.

I just checked out biocontrols formula for their aeroponic system (the identical one to my own design) and get this shit...the basic veg mix...10-8-32! No shit!

Their herb formula is 11-11-40

and their Tomato formula is 4-18-38

My prediction.. 4-10-32 remember? Not bad, eh? For a non-chemist.

Power Plant is a 3-1-4...no wonder they are just sitting there staring at me turning yellow. lol


So I think I see my clarity has not failed me yet again.

Indirectly I've balanced my system using what I had, supper K is now elevated...some P which was in seriously short order and only a hint of N with lots of Cal and Mg which is needed out the ass. Now we should see some changes in the grow...I thought they were taking too long to respond. They usually take about 24-48 hours and then go insane. Its been about 4 days now...they should be on their way...some have...the clones, but the young ones are in desparate need of juice.

 

[Purpleseed]

Sorry,I skiped all the Bla,Bla I'm on a hurry!
So,I just wanted to say that the shitty table got me 25 ounces!Not bad for a fucked up grow!
Even more than the last grow!
It was all HOG and ultimately frosty though.All the small budlets would give me .3-.4-.5 grams!It something I've heard before that all the small buds were heavy with Floranova.

Here's a pic of a little problem I'm experiencing on one plant on table#1.
It's little orange dots everywhere.They look like pest bites but orange.
And it's a bit like ozone generator burn but I don't have that in the room!
The closest defiency I've found is Calcium,maybe it is,in early stage.

Any idea people ??

 

[Guest]

Well I was just going to post the results of my morning fix. Here is 12 hours later in TAG, now that I've gotten a better idea what I should be aiming at.



Amazingly, the def. signs have vanished where no damage was and the leaves continue to darken and get glossy. We are back to getting balanced.



Purple...what's your mix currently? Speckles are usually a sign of Ca def. If you see yellowing between veins from the margins, P...tip burning and leaf curling K.

But make sure you have Fe and Nickel in your mix somewhere as trace, the Iron will fall out if you are using a magnetic pump and the Nickel is a secret they found.

Nickel has just recently won the status as an essential trace element for plants according to the Agricultural Research Service Plant, Soil and Nutrition Laboratory in Ithaca, NY. It is required for the enzyme urease to break down urea to liberate the nitrogen into a usable form for plants. Nickel is required for iron absorption. Seeds need nickel in order to germinate. Plants grown without additional nickel will gradually reach a deficient level at about the time they mature and begin reproductive growth. If nickel is deficient plants may fail to produce viable seeds.

This was 12 hours ago, not much to see...but a little growth and currently. I think you can see the Ca. def can't you? lol But now they have plenty..they are growing again. Whew. Almost stalled my engin. :wink:

 

[Purpleseed]

I brought the mix down to 780ppm:300ppmCal-Mag+400ppmFloranova+80 ppm LKHydroguard.
Next week will 600ppm+lk(very little or no)
And then I'll be only adding water till Clearex.

Ca was my first guess but they are full of Cal-Mag.Could they be needing more at the end ??This was on the tallest plant.

And no,the Sump pump has been replace for a smaller pump just to pump the mix in the table.
Good news!!!I will buy a digicam!!Will post shot of table#2 refilled and kicking!
After 6 days they are so tall and full of nodes already!
This is going to be the best grow so far!
Table#1 is my best result so far but there are many empty holes because of different reasons:Bad clones,3 hermies,6 males and I topped at the end of week 2!! NEWB!!

(after like 8months I still had males somewhere ???? ).

 

[Guest]

Just remember that high levels of N, K or Mg will lock out Ca. That might be the issue between the K and Ca we are seeing. Maybe there is a conflict during absorption or insufficient levels. I got fat ass colas on the Wondertwins by spiking with Hydroplex a 0-4-10 P/K booster. However I always saw those speckles in NL and Skunk lines, but not in the White lines. I think the more indie dominant take more Ca then the Sats do and the the Sats take more K than the Indie. Not that skunk is an indie dominant, but it would just reason that the shorter fatter darker green phenos would be higher in Ca and Fe to me. K is a fruit building element more like a carbo. Just conjecture of course. a MOO (my own opinion) point, to quote Joey. lol

But if you are only two weeks or less from harvest I'd just hit them hard with a shot of P/K and leave the N at around 2-10-40. Just give the bitches straight twinkies for the next week, then flush and drop your light schedule down to 10 hours. They'll panic and start to pack their bags for travel...which is just what you want.

Still holding here at 73 room temp target range reached, 49% RH target range reached, 67.8F root temps target range reached, we are go! Tomorrow night the 1K MH Full Spectrum AGro goes online.

Once completely stabilized I will be descending from 18 hours by periods of one hour ever 2 days until I reach 12 hour day intervals. I'll continue feeding Veg only for the next 3-4 weeks, depending on pre-flower and budset. Though...it appears the Flower formula is more applicable to TAG...I might have to fuck with this. I'm looking at nutrients now as I'm thinking I might for go the Ionic in favor of a higher K based nutrient regime. More research is needed.

Btw, just to show how fucked up being balanced can be. After I finished posting this morning I turned the TV on to check the weather and found a college TV station broadcasting this very interesting lecture on the Energy in elliptical orbits and how various astronomers discovered the mathematical equations that proved that nature obeys the laws of math. Not only was there yet another flood of massive connections and correlations I started to make, but I started to giggle as the information now absorbing into my mind was actually causing me to giggle like I was totally high. The more my mind just 'got it' watching all the formulae combine (they did this cool animated sequence showing how parts of the equation would cancel each other and how the orbit of pluto was discovered) it was fuckin' awesome!

Learning can be fun...what do you know...but it was so cool that now it is like my freakin' dense intellect totally 'gets off' on absorbing pure energy (knowledge) now and I don't even have to 'get it' myself. All my self governing systems in balance feed the connected matrix in my mind and I arrive at the conclusion without thinking consciously about it. The information going in tickles. lol I'm a Mad Mad Scientist, no doubt.

 

[Purpleseed]

How many time you use PPK13-14 Pod ???
I tought 2 times was already over the top,and now you are suggesting a third??
Sorry I don't understand when you say straight twinkies.
And when you say leave the N at 2-10-40 what would that be in PPM ?
Can't change light cycle,perpetual I am!
I'm going to bed now...you lost me now...I'll be back tomorrow..!
Nighty night everybody!

 

[Guest]

I want fuckin' NOVA on every channel

I want fuckin' NOVA on every channel

Sorry PS, twice is probably enough for sure. I haven't been tracking your grow so I kinda forget what you are doing or where you are at, sorry.

What I meant is if you mix a new res, I would drop the N ratio down in the mix so it is more like 2-10-40 where the 40 is the K, obviously. lol At the end of your run they need no real Nitrogen except to process the other elements and they can pull that out of the air if low, compared to the P which is still in need for building buds and the K (which is what I meant by Twinkies) K is like sugar or fat for the plant, sort of like your own body, no? You survive on Protein, Carbohydrates and Sugars/Fats. Its the balance of these in your diet that determine your growth and thickness. Adolescents and children need lots of everything but as we mature we need less Protein (N) and survive best on lower carb diets and fats, but if you want to get fat, you eat sugar and fat (K) and pregnant women crave those elements to support the energy they are storing for the egg's (seed's) journey. "Packing their bags to travel".

Phosphorus is like carbos for us, we use them to make other sugars and proteins..so they are sort of akin to K or simple Fats/Sugars only a little more complicated and takes some processing.

You are about 1-2 weeks from delivery? So you can just feed straight carbos and fats/sugars to fatten your buds before they leave the nest, so to speak. They need little to no Nitrogen now, and leeching it out wont hurt for clearing, but you need enough to still process the other elements.

If at the end of my 6-7th week I need nutes in my res as the ppms are low from eating I will top off with a shot of P/K (Hydroplex) or Boost of some sort as that is what they are eating, not N or any major 'veg' nutrients at that point. Someone mentioned using kelp or seaweed extract, the Hydroplex is fortified with seaweed, humic acid, fulvic acid, vitamins and amino acids.

At that point the plant is preparing to die, she isn't thinking of her own leaves or even life at that point. All focus is on supplying a nice 'energy' package for the pod ride to the seed's new home. Remember she is thinking she is going to have to pump enough energy into that little pod to keep that sprout alive until it gets its solar panels up and working. That is about 3-4 days worth of constant energy.

That is a lot of K. lol

Hope that helped. I am sorry I didn't mean to confuse you.

I'm just finding that once again here is an error in the thinking on aeroponics. We are all using 'hydro' nutes that are very low in their ratios as the plants soak in the solution all day. The idea of a pure energy exchange at root level wasn't too far off, however the balance wouldn't be in the elements being pure to the root cell interface. Instead the balance going in is the water (of life).

Your Water of life must be balanced for the TAE, that is the secret. Balanced energy in, balanced system, balanced energy out. Healthy healthy healthy. The chelation is a natural occurring phenomena, which tells me it serves a purpose in nature, which is a balanced system. So I will trust for now that nature has a reason and leave that issue alone, for the moment.

However I feel like a complete idiot here now, as it has just dawned on my ass (see I can be thickheaded and stupid as well) that BioConrol has already developed the nutrient profile for TAG using the NASA scientists and their own chemists. Duh!

The reason why this didn't occur to me is that: 1.) It is stealing information (knowledge) as I was pursuing this entirely ignorant of outside designs and profiles, and 2.) I figured I could find a better 'canna' based nutrient.

But it it would appear that in TAE the consumption of K is very heavy and easily absorbed. This would explain my constant K def that I can not figure out. I have now, it has been that my ratios are based on DWC (Deep Water Culture) and not TAG.

Like I said, a lot of this IS new, despite what other may say, as no one else ever seems to catch these errors or flaws in the systems. It would probably account for a substantially lower yield.

The reason my WWidows did so well was I was trying to burn them with Hydroplex at like 1800 ppms. All they did was get huge fat colas (on a notoriously low yielding strain) and still show K def.

So, there is a clue. I'm now going to raid BioControl for info. I'm going in, wish me luck.

Oh and PS, I just saw this awesome program on NOVA about how at the center of stars (the only place) all elements for supporting life are created and then upon the collapse and then re-formation of a second generation over and over create the 'soup' that they now have found exists almost everywhere in the universe. Which means that they have solved the birth of existence to this point at which we almost have every piece in the puzzle.
It was fascinating to me as every scientist was saying the exact same thing as I've been preaching about here (validating my theories) and that they are as well so excited as there is a powerful change that is now taking effect in our 'human race' and I can see it happening now everyday.
I think we have just passed through a point where we will now start to see dramatic advances in science and technology. It is all about to just bust out. I'm seeing the effect moving faster than I thought through the fields I track energy. We might be able to survive yet.

But the point was that the energy of that dense star (like I've been stating) IS the manufacturer of its own system of organic life. Just amazing, that the entire physical universe (they finally find) is completely designed around the creation of organic elements. They now are finding thousands of galaxies with higher concentrations of Oxygen, Carbon and heavy metals than our own. It is as if life could NOT not exist. In an infinite universe everything is possible and everything exists, by definition. I think this whole thing is like I said, just a bulge from a 2 dimensional plane of existence that swelled out into a 3rd dimension (why we can observe it) and collapsed back into the 2 dimensional existence, if not the singularity.

See, on a 2 dimensional plane, you can not see anything, there is no thickness to your existence just area. But blow that into a bubble and you could see the other side of your 'sheet' by looking up. lol into your own past, which is basically what we see in the night sky. 100 billion years ago. lol pretty cool shit.

 

[Guest]

Concerning your inquiry into Chelation.

"Simply put - chelates bond to metals the plant uses for growth, in soil or hydro, and ensures they are stable and mobile. Chelation is an essential for healthy plants. If chelation is poor, the plant will be forced to expend energy to find available nutrients in the medium."

"Theoretically less stress. A smooth chelation process is essential for plants to use minerals and keep them from bonding with each other, this keeps them mobile and stops them from precipitating. Chelating agents nullify the positive charge on the ion and cause it to be more neutral or be a slightly charged anion, encouraging the nutrients to transfer through the pores on the leaf and root surface more rapidly."

Why its the bomb!
"Since pores are negatively charged to attract ions, this negative or neutral charge makes ionic bonding and storage of elements in the root pores less likely, increasing the efficiency of the root system."

"Sometimes inorganic elements are bound so tightly with their chelates (in synthetic situations) that they cannot be released for physiological function. The plant has a hard time breaking down the inorganic chelates, where as the organic chelates do not share any of the same problems as the synthetics. Using organic chelates has been demonstrated scientifically to produce healthier plants."

Thanks to my buddy AeRoGaNiC's FAQ on OG:

http://www.overgrow.com/growfaq/1717

 

[guineapig]

i am a nova addict too!

i am a nova addict too!

thanks for info on chelation....there are some really exotic chelates out there that you never see any nutrient company using because they are so damn expensive....maybe for the last word on chelation, this South African chemist has come up with a (supposedly) new group of chelation molecules called "the shuttle system" and i think the description of it would be of interest....it is sort of like using nano-technology to shuttle nutrients into the plant cell walls where they dock, the nutrient stays in the plant, but the "shuttle" nano-molecule returns to the nutrient solution where it can pick up a new nutrient molecule and repeat the process ad infinitum......i have done preliminary research on the "shuttle system" and still can't decide....here....

A balanced blend of chelated trace elements featuring the revolutionary sequester/chelator - Shuttle™. High concentrations of seven micronutrients are supported by seven major elements, saponins and fulvic acid which add a further growth-enhancing dimension to an exceptional liquid fertiliser.

The Shuttle™ Story:
The Shuttle™ system, developed by South African industrial chemist, David Menne, is a major breakthrough in chelation nutrition. In conventional chelation chemistry, agents like EDTA or Ligno-Sulphonates carry the desired trace element through the outer cell walls into the plant. By contrast, the Shuttle™ system involves much more than a one-way journey, and the chelator never actually enters the plant. A suite of natural, polysaccharide-based agents are utilised in a two-step process where the selected elements are sequestered (held in reserve) in structures called nano-clusters. A shuttle ligand chelator then transports the nutrients to the plant surface where is "docks" and unloads its cargo before returning to the pool of sequestered clusters to repeat the exercise again and again. The net effect is a greatly enhanced uptake of the applied nutrients.

BENEFITS
Sequesters, chelates and delivers more nutrition than previously possible.
Small molecular size increases chelation speed.
Reduced stability problems.
In soil situations, Shuttle™ can continue to operate beyond the original quantity dosed, complexing and converting other dormant cations into useable plant foods (especially in soils with low microbial activity).
Also serves as a carbohydrate-based microbial stimulant.
Note: trace element supplementation will be most beneficial in the following conditions:
Poor soils deficient in micro-nutrients.
Light soils with low storage capacity.
High pH soils where trace element availability is reduced.
Low pH soils where trace element availability is reduced.
In high-yielding crops, which require maximum nutrition.
When lock-ups in the soil hinder nutrient uptake.
All of the Shuttle™ range including Shuttle Seven™ contain background nutrients to avoid the problems which can occur when the correction of one shortage triggers other shortages due to the antagonistic effect of trace elements.
A completely natural product (but not certified organic).

a link is here: http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products.htm

have fun and TAG onwards reefer soldiers......-gp

 

[Guest]

That sounds incredible, but totally possible. Just like I was reading, after seeing another really awesome lecture on TV on ribosomes and how they work with DNA, they run like a transport agent. They grab an elements as like a traincar and float into the cell (this case human) and attach to a docking sequence (like ATA, or GTT basic DNA code) where they hold the element until the next sequence is completed by another (triplet). Once the next one snaps into place next to the other one, the two elements bond with a hydrogen bond and then the first Triplet breaks off to return out of the cell to get another element (they only carry one molecule at a time) its that small. But these DNA structures then (by combining those elements into a peptide) create the protein or sugar or whatever. The cool thing is these 'triplets' RNA I think they are called can attach all along a DNA strand so they can work in tandem with others for more rapid production. That is how they manufacture Insulin now. In huge vats of bacteria that can process billions of generations of strand division. Its so fuckin' cool.

So this shuttle shit sounds right up that alley. It probably just a coded sequencer or whatever that shit is. You know, I'm going to be a genetisist by the time I figure all this out. And a freakin' chemist. Who said potheads are stupid.

Meanwhile, I've fired up the 1K MH Full Spec, and the plants this morning were at 650ppms at ph 5.6 (which isn't bad for aero). I went ahead and tapped again with Cal/Mag Plus as I think they could use a litte more Mg and Ca.

I'm going to run at this level for one week then step it up to a heavier P/K veg mixture (more K) about 800. This should give them plenty of time to chillaxs. :wink: