No worries mate, personally i always use low EC nutes even for seeds/lings in RW prop cubes(same for bubblecloning too), i like a low npk line like Ionic or formulex, canna plant start's ok too. G'Luck mate!
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Supercharged RDWC v1.0
- Thread starter BattleAxe
- Start date
il19z8rn4li1
Member
OH BOY. BattleAxe, now comes the fun parts :-D When you really start to fully
understand hydro and RDWC for that matter, when you gotta start modding things.
Your first DIY setup will never be right from the start, there is a lot of math and calculations
that can be taken into play in the designing of a system.
But you know.. Old Oaks grow strong in contrary winds, and diamonds are made under pressure ;-)
Personally I remember my first setup ever, and by far it was the most fun. It made me fully
understand the principle of RDWC and really gets you thinking and how one can create the perfect setup :-D
After a few months of my current setup, im going to trash it for a hybrid Soil/Hydro setup
that I have been developing in my head :-D
Keep it up my friend, good show so far.
understand hydro and RDWC for that matter, when you gotta start modding things.
Your first DIY setup will never be right from the start, there is a lot of math and calculations
that can be taken into play in the designing of a system.
But you know.. Old Oaks grow strong in contrary winds, and diamonds are made under pressure ;-)
Personally I remember my first setup ever, and by far it was the most fun. It made me fully
understand the principle of RDWC and really gets you thinking and how one can create the perfect setup :-D
After a few months of my current setup, im going to trash it for a hybrid Soil/Hydro setup
that I have been developing in my head :-D
Keep it up my friend, good show so far.
petemoss
Active member
Hey BA, that would be great if you could lower the inner buckets! That mod would produce several benefits. First, it will give you a six inch waterfall from the feed elbow instead of two to three inches. That should really churn up the water, giving you more DO in the lower bucket where the water roots grow. Also, a lower water level will mean a higher turnover since you will have about seven gal instead of ten in the lower bucket - a "supercharged" RDWC as you said in the title. And lowering the drains will not be too hard. Above the water line you don't have to worry about making everything watertight. Those plastic sticks you mentioned would be better than wooden or metal rods. (Wonder if plastic chopsticks would be long enough). You may be able to use the lids with the existing holes you cut if you hold the lid over the waterfarm bucket and push the lid on from above. Take your time and enjoy the build like il19... said! Your hard work will pay off!
Scrogerman, good to see you again! Let's help BA learn the joys of scrogging lol. What you said about going easy with nute strength is good advice. I find that clones can take a fairly strong feed, especially if they have high intensity veg lighting. And BA will be vegging with a 1000 watt HPS over a 4'x4' canopy.
Scrogerman, good to see you again! Let's help BA learn the joys of scrogging lol. What you said about going easy with nute strength is good advice. I find that clones can take a fairly strong feed, especially if they have high intensity veg lighting. And BA will be vegging with a 1000 watt HPS over a 4'x4' canopy.
il19z8rn4li1
Member
hehe thanks for the shout out ;-)
hum.. i gotta comment on the 1000watter...
I have a lot of grower friends that use 1k watters, and I have never touched them. I have gotten same results with only 600s.
for the additional 400 watt that you have to use for the 1k watters, the benefits I dont see are there.
for a 4'x4' you could easily use a 600watt..
max PRIMARY reach of a 600 watt bulb is 33inches..
max PRIMATE reach of a 1k watter.. is 44inches... thats both directions.
so you can see right there, you could be really having over kill here.. where this over kill will result in you having to lift your light a bit higher.
where with the 600 you could be closer... so more intense light can be caught by the plant.
I dont know though lol just my experiences and opinion :-D
I just find it to have to many out weight benefits, the 600w.
I mean the biggest right off the bat is the BAM 400 watts saved.
that 400 watts can be ALL of your additional power consumption minus lighting.
but to each their own :-D
cheers
Hey Pete,
ahh yeah i overlooked light output & you did say 'up-to' that EC, so of course your right, should of considered that & read a little closer mate. Yeah gotta luv a good scrog, look forward to it. G'Luck
ahh yeah i overlooked light output & you did say 'up-to' that EC, so of course your right, should of considered that & read a little closer mate. Yeah gotta luv a good scrog, look forward to it. G'Luck
zeropercentthc
New member
Sorry, I still don't understand. I can see how the water recirculates effectively. But I don't see how the water can be drained out of the plant bucket when the drain for the bucket is up at the water level. What I mean by "drained out" I mean having the water totally emptied out of the bucket. (IE changing the res) Do you take the plant/inner bucket out and drop a water pump in to empty the water out of that bucket? Or just not change the res until the grow is finished?
petemoss
Active member
This feed manifold will work:
Start with a reducing Tee 3/4", 1/2", 3/4" into a 1/2" barbed spigot.
Everything above reducing Tee consists of 1/2" hose joining barbed connectors. The 1/2" valve should be shut down so that about 1/4 of the flow goes to the top stream and 3/4 of the flow goes down the barbed elbow into the surface of the water.
OR if you want to keep the 3/4" Tee and 3/4" valve you already have, you can attach the 1/2" hose just above your 3/4" valve using a reducing coupling 3/4" to 1/2" barb. The idea is to increase the water pressure to the bucket.
Start with a reducing Tee 3/4", 1/2", 3/4" into a 1/2" barbed spigot.
Everything above reducing Tee consists of 1/2" hose joining barbed connectors. The 1/2" valve should be shut down so that about 1/4 of the flow goes to the top stream and 3/4 of the flow goes down the barbed elbow into the surface of the water.
OR if you want to keep the 3/4" Tee and 3/4" valve you already have, you can attach the 1/2" hose just above your 3/4" valve using a reducing coupling 3/4" to 1/2" barb. The idea is to increase the water pressure to the bucket.
BattleAxe
Member
Yeah man, the real fun has begun. Nothing worthwhile ever came without a bit of hard work.
Your hybrid setup sounds interesting. Can't wait to see it. Here's to dialing in our machines!
BattleAxe
Member
So, I was playing around with these lids and came to find out that they actually will hold the inner bucket by the very top lip, with no mods. This drops the inner buckets a good 3"
I am still undecided about dropping the drain holes though, according to my calculations, the buckets are getting about 18 turnovers/hr. I know it isn't the 20-25 that we were aiming for but I would still say that is a good turnover rate.
BattleAxe
Member
My lights are air cooled, I can get them as close as 12" with no ill effect. I understand what you are saying about the power but the system was designed with a kW hood in mind, I don't own a 600W and after building this thing, can't afford to drop the loot for one now. For this run, I am gonna run with the kW hood.
BattleAxe
Member
Cheers for the tips mate. I have some Heavy 16 nutes still lingering from my last run. I am going to use the rest of those first, they should get me about half way through at which time, I plan to start them on the Lucas formula.
BattleAxe
Member
yes, it does incorporate some of the bio-bucket principles and theories
sorry, didn't quite understand the question. to drain, I turn off the feed via the ball valve, let the bucket drain til the water line then tilt the bucket so it drains more to the res until it's about 5-7 Gl full at which time, I pick it up and dump down the sink. You do point out a very good issue when using top drains.
This feed manifold will work:
Start with a reducing Tee 3/4", 1/2", 3/4" into a 1/2" barbed spigot.
Everything above reducing Tee consists of 1/2" hose joining barbed connectors. The 1/2" valve should be shut down so that about 1/4 of the flow goes to the top stream and 3/4 of the flow goes down the barbed elbow into the surface of the water.
OR if you want to keep the 3/4" Tee and 3/4" valve you already have, you can attach the 1/2" hose just above your 3/4" valve using a reducing coupling 3/4" to 1/2" barb. The idea is to increase the water pressure to the bucket.
Are you after more DO with the increased pressure?
petemoss
Active member
Hi BA,
No, I believe a taller waterfall will boost DO in the bucket. But when you wrote "Revamped the res as I was getting some minor leaks and having trouble equalizing the draining due to the holes being drilled at different heights in the res." I realized that you were getting uneven flow to the buckets because the main 3/4" feed loop wasn't getting pressurized enough. The height of the drains going into the res. shouldn't affect the amount of flow coming out of the drains. If the outflows through the drains are uneven, that's because the inflows are uneven. The solution IMO is to restrict the flow by going down to 1/2" tubing at the buckets. Here's a pic of reducing tees used in a feed manifold. By reducing the size of the exits, the feed loop pressure is increased and the flow to the individual buckets was equalized without using valves.
BTW the device in the middle is a line voltage thermostat that can turn a fan or air conditioner on if the temp is above the trigger temp you set. It can also be used to turn on a heater if the temp drops below the set temp. Made by Chicago and cost only $20. I think you were asking about such a device in your first thread.
If you leave the drains where they are, how high is the water level on the inner bucket?
petemoss
Active member
Hi BA,
I should backtrack a bit to explain how to fine tune your feed manifold for even flow to the buckets. If you notice that some buckets are getting more inflow than others, it's always the buckets nearest the pump that get more flow. You can even out the flows by either raising the faster buckets or by using a valve to decrease the flow. Raising the faster buckets won't have much effect on the flow when you are using a strong pump. You can see that by examining the lift curves on a table such as http://www.marinedepot.com/Danner_M...ter_Pumps-Danner_Mfg.-DN1133-FIWPSBTO-vi.html
Note that for the bigger pumps, there is very slight loss of flow until you go beyond two feet lift. The weaker the pump, the greater the gph loss.
Using a valve such as the ones you are using to turn down the flow is a little tricky because those valves are best used to open or shut off the flow. They are very sensitive and hard to adjust when you want to achieve partial decrease in gph. So the best way IMO is to step down the size of the feed pipe to 1/2" tubing. I like plumbing the feed manifold as shown my last pic because the 1/2" valve can be used to vary the top "drip" as the roots grow in the inner bucket. You can have a slow drip, just enough to keep the clay balls moist when the plant is young. That would be in lieu of hand watering. (I hand water with a turkey baster and only squirt in about one dropper or one fl. oz. daily.) As the roots spread and fill out, the top flow can be adjusted.
I should backtrack a bit to explain how to fine tune your feed manifold for even flow to the buckets. If you notice that some buckets are getting more inflow than others, it's always the buckets nearest the pump that get more flow. You can even out the flows by either raising the faster buckets or by using a valve to decrease the flow. Raising the faster buckets won't have much effect on the flow when you are using a strong pump. You can see that by examining the lift curves on a table such as http://www.marinedepot.com/Danner_M...ter_Pumps-Danner_Mfg.-DN1133-FIWPSBTO-vi.html
Note that for the bigger pumps, there is very slight loss of flow until you go beyond two feet lift. The weaker the pump, the greater the gph loss.
Using a valve such as the ones you are using to turn down the flow is a little tricky because those valves are best used to open or shut off the flow. They are very sensitive and hard to adjust when you want to achieve partial decrease in gph. So the best way IMO is to step down the size of the feed pipe to 1/2" tubing. I like plumbing the feed manifold as shown my last pic because the 1/2" valve can be used to vary the top "drip" as the roots grow in the inner bucket. You can have a slow drip, just enough to keep the clay balls moist when the plant is young. That would be in lieu of hand watering. (I hand water with a turkey baster and only squirt in about one dropper or one fl. oz. daily.) As the roots spread and fill out, the top flow can be adjusted.
BattleAxe
Member
Hi Pete,
On the old res, 2 buckets drained from the front of the res and 4 from the back, 4 of the holes, 2 in the front and 2 in the back of the res, were drilled at 14.5", or the same height on the buckets and the other 2 holes on the back side were drilled at 12". Initially, I thought there was a difference in flow but it turned out that the 12" drain holes were causing the drain line to sag, which actually slowed the draining, causing a higher water line in the rear buckets, so the issue wasn't with the flow, it was more with the drain.
I did have to tweak the flow a bit due to the closest to the pump buckets getting a bit more flow but luckily was able to manipulate the ball valves to restrict the flow and even it out across the buckets. It took a while but after some trial and error think I have it pretty close. I marked the locations on the ball valve so I don't have to repeat the process in the future.
I haven't gotten an exact measurement but offhand I wanna say the water line is approx 6-7" up the side of the bucket, I know I left them about 3" above the bottom of the inner bucket on the og design, then we sunk the buckets another 3-4" = 6-7."
As far as a taller waterfall goes, I think we have to live with it for this run because the only way to get a higher waterfall would be to raise the buckets onto beds or stands of some sort.
Thanks for pointing me to that thermostat. I was looking for one for my aerocloner with a powerhead pump that kept heating the res up to 80F+, I was looking to cycle a timer in micro intervals like 15 on/off but just ended up doing away with the aero cloner and now experimenting with RW for cloning.
On the old res, 2 buckets drained from the front of the res and 4 from the back, 4 of the holes, 2 in the front and 2 in the back of the res, were drilled at 14.5", or the same height on the buckets and the other 2 holes on the back side were drilled at 12". Initially, I thought there was a difference in flow but it turned out that the 12" drain holes were causing the drain line to sag, which actually slowed the draining, causing a higher water line in the rear buckets, so the issue wasn't with the flow, it was more with the drain.
I did have to tweak the flow a bit due to the closest to the pump buckets getting a bit more flow but luckily was able to manipulate the ball valves to restrict the flow and even it out across the buckets. It took a while but after some trial and error think I have it pretty close. I marked the locations on the ball valve so I don't have to repeat the process in the future.
I haven't gotten an exact measurement but offhand I wanna say the water line is approx 6-7" up the side of the bucket, I know I left them about 3" above the bottom of the inner bucket on the og design, then we sunk the buckets another 3-4" = 6-7."
As far as a taller waterfall goes, I think we have to live with it for this run because the only way to get a higher waterfall would be to raise the buckets onto beds or stands of some sort.
Thanks for pointing me to that thermostat. I was looking for one for my aerocloner with a powerhead pump that kept heating the res up to 80F+, I was looking to cycle a timer in micro intervals like 15 on/off but just ended up doing away with the aero cloner and now experimenting with RW for cloning.
il19z8rn4li1
Member
I see what your saying my friend :-D but with cooled hoods(i have them soon and I hate them) but you lose about 10% of the light power.
by no means was i implying that you should change out lamps,
I was just suggesting that you could look into later in the future, maybe when your ready to redesign or make a new system.
I just find that you can utilize the same amount of primary light with 600s as you can 1000s in turn using less power, making less heat :-D
zeropercentthc
New member
petemoss
Active member
Hi BA,
Not the waterfall in the res, I meant the waterfall in the bucket from the feed elbow. From your pic, the surface agitation appears weak. I think you can get a stronger churning of the water if the water shoots out of the elbow faster and if you can drop the water level by lowering the drains. A higher and stronger waterfall will make a big difference. I think this can be done by replacing the 3/4" feed elbow with a 1/2" elbow. You'd only need a 3/4" to 1/2" coupling attached to the 1/2" feed elbow. In addition, you can use a 1/4" top hat grommet to tap into the 3/4" half of the reducing coupling. That would provide feed to the top of the hydroton. Please consider making this mod as this could fix a glaring weakness in your current setup. I think the top hat will work because the pressure will be higher within the 3/4" part of the feed manifold and the 1/4" line will be much shorter than before.
