Super silver haze

[Morphote]

Found 3 great females in pack of MNS SSH not too long ago:

#7 NL/Hz pheno - exceptional, silver under the light, chunky
#8 Sk/Hz pheno - keeper, high yield, citrus/lemon aroma and flavor
#9 Hz pheno - terrible indoor but incredible outdoor, didn’t look real

All 3 were grade A cannabis.

M.

 

[ESTERCHASER]

cobalt haze it is!

cobalt haze it is!

ABF Seeds - Abja Roots uses Whadezlrg's SSH cut.

It's a multiple time cup winner, in the modern era. LA. Seattle. Denver. Some of the most competitive markets and that cut held it's own.

If I was after an SSH cross, that's where I'd start. I mean, that's where I did start.

ABF Seeds - 12wk Cobalt Haze

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After hearing the podcast on soundcloud ive chosen cobalt haze!


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Maybe you'll find something you like.



dank.Frank

cobalt haze it is!

 

[zachrockbadenof]

mr nice... this pack is at least 12-15yrs old- 15 seeds- still 7 in the pack... grew the balance out, there were a few ladies ... nothing... i mean nothing to keep- weak-weak weed - think the pack was 175bucks back then, which was rich for a pack of seeds- also grew out his mango n i think his shit.... never found a keeper.... 'shit' is a very appropriate word to describe his offerings..

maybe his seeds are 'fire', n i'm a shitty grower... could be...

 

[browntrout]

mr nice... this pack is at least 12-15yrs old- 15 seeds- still 7 in the pack... grew the balance out, there were a few ladies ... nothing... i mean nothing to keep- weak-weak weed - think the pack was 175bucks back then, which was rich for a pack of seeds- also grew out his mango n i think his shit.... never found a keeper.... 'shit' is a very appropriate word to describe his offerings..

maybe his seeds are 'fire', n i'm a shitty grower... could be...

I’ve grown his Devil & Angel Heart. Certain phenos (which I was able to capture) had some unique qualities for sure but for the most part sub-par genetics and not as advertised, it takes a lot of work in breeding to get them somewhere special. I really want to like what he’s doing and the strains but the money is better spent elsewhere IMO.

 

[Mohadib]

That's not greed. Seeds are still too cheap. Even at $2k for a pack of 10 - that is too cheap. Cannabis seeds give you the ability to print money. GOOD genetics, are quite literally, priceless.

I'll never forget, how INSTANTLY excited I became, when I learned I could buy a life change for $150. 20 years ago, I truly expected well bred cannabis seeds to be wildly unavailable and I expected those which were, to be out of reach.

I've never, ever, ever, ever - felt taken advantage of when buying a pack of seeds. I've spent $800 for 10 seeds - and I still feel, as if, I'm the one who got the deal.

I'll never understand why people expect to make (or save) a fortune by growing their own, and yet are against any sort of barrier to entry. It's one thing if that barrier goes to politicians - it's something else entirely, when that price penalty goes to those who built the industry and have a family at home to take care of - WHILE - committing felonies for us to have seeds...

WTF is wrong with people getting their own in this game? Why are we okay with buying stock from Canopy Corp - but not okay, putting dollar bills in our brothers pocket....???

It's fucked - really.

The perspective needs shifted.



dank.Frank

First of all, Frank, I admire your presence on this site and I’m always happy to see you posting BUT: I have a really hard time to wrap my head around your stance on this one to be honest. And since I think it is an important matter to speak about, I took some time to think and write about it. I’m sorry for my post being so long, but I there’s some things that need to be addressed in this respect – at least in my opinion

First of all, you presuppose an economic agenda when it comes to growing weed, which is something that clearly needs to be justified as lots of people (including myself) simply love to grow fine weed and smoke it. They don’t plan on making seeds themselves in order to sell them and they don’t sell what they produce. Others even have to smoke it because they’re ill.
The potential for monetarization alone doesn’t justify demanding for these things to be extremely expensive. Books for example contain ideas that can easily be used to write and sell your own books or make profits from it in other ways. Actually it’s an inherent part of the ‘deal’ if you want to see it like that. Yet, it would be intuitively absurd to demand books to cost thousands of dollars each, because you presuppose that everyone who’s reading a book is planning on making money from it. You could also demand for apples or tomatoes etc. to cost thousands of dollars for a pack of ten, because they contain seeds that could be used to make money, but I doubt you’ll want that.

Secondly, I still have to spend an ass load of money on materials as well as on electricity to produce my own weed. And since we’re talking in economic terms here, the amount of time I spend on this hobby has to be considered monetarily as well, which renders my self-grown weed about as expensive as the stuff I’d be buying otherwise – I’m “saving” pretty much nothing at all.
Also, I, as well as most people that grow their own, put their freedom on the line just as much as anyone who’s producing seeds. The fact that illegally grown cannabis is so expensive is partly justified by the danger that the production and distribution poses. So, if I grow my own, I can justly deduct a certain amount of money from the price I’d be paying for street bought weed, which adds plausibility to the former point: I don’t “save” any money from growing my own!

This leads me to point #3: If someone voluntarily decides to follow that route of business, knowing its illegal, the danger that comes with it is part of their job. And since it’s a business model to breed and sell seeds, you can’t make a moral argument from that! It’s not like the people who breed or sell seeds do it out of benevolence – they do it to make money. If they actually do it to provide the rest of the world with great genetics, they can price their product so that they can cope with their costs of production and also make a living from it. But that doesn’t make it necessary for them to claim hundreds or even thousands of dollars for a hand full of seeds. Also, let’s not forget that more or less everything today’s breeders make and sell is based not only on the exchange and sharing of genetics, but also on the work of people that did what they did because they had and have a passion for the matter. It’s not like they’ve reinvented the wheel! They’re also just “standing on the shoulders of giants”. As far as I know, they don’t pay any royalties to any of these guys, do they!?
Of course they can claim as much money as they want. They’re not obliged to meet my wants or the price of their product. But the freedom to make your product as expensive as you wish is entirely different from the point you’re making!

And finally and probably most importantly: The unwillingness to pay high amounts of money on seeds is in no way identical to being “against any sort of barrier to entry.” No one demanded for the seeds to be free! The amount of money someone is willing to pay for something does not at all necessarily imply the value a product has for this person. Someone who is earning 40.000 $ a year, might want this 2.000 $ pack of seeds MUCH more than someone who makes 200.000$ a year, yet he can’t afford it. The only effect of making seeds super expensive would be that the only people who’d buy them are the people who can afford them. This, however, doesn’t imply in any way it’s the people that ‘deserve’ the seeds the most or that the genetics would be getting in the ‘right hands’. This would rather be a sure shot way to the ‘undemocratization’ of cannabis growing and a huge step towards its ‘elitetization’. Considering the great genetics that are the product of “lucky little accidents” that happened in the context of growing weed in someone’s basement, the ‘elitezation’ of the seed business would mean a loss for all of us – at least in my opinion.

The commercialization of Cannabis seeds has been a blessing in many ways, as it has animated many people to come up with great genetics, technologies and a lot of knowledge. It also made way for a global genetic market that is accessible for most of us and enables us to smoke ourselves through time and space so to say. Never before have there been so many people able to enjoy this plant, to get to know it, to improve it, to gain knowledge about it feed it back to the public. Why? Partly, because the materials you need for this are available to so many people! Why? Not least because the prices for these materials, including seeds, has declined!

Don’t get me wrong Frank, I’m all there with you when it comes to breeders and people doing actual work to get their fair share of the money that’s made from their work. But that doesn’t mean it would be ‘just’ or even a good idea to make growing good weed such an elite thing.

 

[CannaZen]

Imagine 0carbon expelled emitting electricity and light to the bulbs. water at the expense of distilled antioxidant resin hydrocarbon atoms of hydrogen, carbon and oxygen, Plant combustion.


danke/ easing the carbon limit due to increased temperature rises for burn treatment &* neuroprotection of Light rzay the sun,.. ala cannabis seed. Intoxication?

 

[ESTERCHASER]

lots of options alot of money spent..........

 

[zachrockbadenof]

if mr nice is one of the top breeders.... the future is bleak....very bleak...

 

[willydread]

if mr nice is one of the top breeders.... the future is bleak....very bleak...

Probably he WAS one of the top breeders, now he certainly is not, the great successes of these seedbanks (senses, mns, ghs, etc.) date back to the late 90s, beginning 00, then something has changed, the quality has decreased ( even if something good sometimes comes out ...
About SSH, the first time I was in Amsterdam (@ baba coffeshop) it made me turn white white, after a few minutes I was k.o....
I believe that nowadays it is easier to find a sample in the form of cutting or selection, rather than from an original MNS package...

 

[ESTERCHASER]

oh geez i wonder how many spin offs hybrids in america came from orig mr nice gear.......but you wouldnt realize it if your nuts just dropped!

 

[ESTERCHASER]

opinion

opinion

if mr nice is one of the top breeders.... the future is bleak....very bleak...

sorry buddy i dont know you....so your opinion is kinda meh....now if you were kevin jodrey saying this.....or someone ive seen around since 1991 then youd have my ear

If your outlook on other breeders (WITHOUT TRYING THEM I BET) Is like you share here.....your opinions are very bleak, very bleak indeed!

 

[AFGHANICA79]

I would rather wade through old nevs stock from mns than accept a keeper pheno from someone but thats just me as i like to see the population n pick my own. Alot of ppl who buy from mns are buying to breed because they know its all old school classics but dont expect to get white white as times change and so does tolerance, I am glad mns never went modern with animal mints or wedding cake or cookie herm etc as he kept it real and always said he wanted to offer nevils old stock in seed form, He bred for alot of seedbanks with cbd as they didnt have the lines or time to do it themselves, Serious seeds chronic i used to love and got me smashed 10-15 years ago but now its a weak strain to me as alot of 90s stock is , But i will not dislike that strain as it is a classic , The terp% has quadrupled in some cultivars compared to pre 2007 ish where it was 1% but now hitting 4%-6%, thc av was 15-19% now 17- 22% some touching over 25%, But breeding quality has declined wiith polyhybrid pollenchuckers who never use a male putting out 5-6 lines in the time it would take a shanti or simon to get results from beantesters. Shanti doing the real canna community a service by not offering modern strains and diluting nevs originals.


Cbd crew have done alot of work for other seedbanks to put cbd stable lines and his focus has been affordable medicine for everyone since 2009. He knew what he had to do, Still at the top of his game. From ghs to mns to cbd crew he has put out consistency. Everyone wanted a cbd line but not willing to do the time and effort to work lines because they pollenchucked to start with.

 

[ESTERCHASER]

cash grab

cash grab

I would rather wade through old nevs stock from mns than accept a keeper pheno from someone but thats just me as i like to see the population n pick my own. Alot of ppl who buy from mns are buying to breed because they know its all old school classics but dont expect to get white white as times change and so does tolerance, I am glad mns never went modern with animal mints or wedding cake or cookie herm etc as he kept it real and always said he wanted to offer nevils old stock in seed form, He bred for alot of seedbanks with cbd as they didnt have the lines or time to do it themselves, Serious seeds chronic i used to love and got me smashed 10-15 years ago but now its a weak strain to me as alot of 90s stock is , But i will not dislike that strain as it is a classic , The terp% has quadrupled in some cultivars compared to pre 2007 ish where it was 1% but now hitting 4%-6%, thc av was 15-19% now 17- 22% some touching over 25%, But breeding quality has declined wiith polyhybrid pollenchuckers who never use a male putting out 5-6 lines in the time it would take a shanti or simon to get results from beantesters. Shanti doing the real canna community a service by not offering modern strains and diluting nevs originals.


Cbd crew have done alot of work for other seedbanks to put cbd stable lines and his focus has been affordable medicine for everyone since 2009. He knew what he had to do, Still at the top of his game. From ghs to mns to cbd crew he has put out consistency. Everyone wanted a cbd line but not willing to do the time and effort to work lines because they pollenchucked to start with.

I heard many podcasts where folks are lazy making hybrids off these guys gear and acting like rockstars......I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THOSE KIND OF PEOPLE! great post afghanica thankyou

 

[AFGHANICA79]

I heard many podcasts where folks are lazy making hybrids off these guys gear and acting like rockstars......I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THOSE KIND OF PEOPLE! great post afghanica thankyou

They sure do but the proof is in the pudding as they say , Mns is a treasure trove of genes along with rsc kiwiseeds for landrace genetics , But all about the polyhybrids where now it is impossible to distinguish between indica n sativa bottleneck genetics but at least the durban poison was appreciated, The introduction of purps into everyfknthing was easy for the eyes to select which line it came from, Along with testing= Breeding for dummies= sts=no males= pollen chucking. If you call yourself a cannabis breeder you must have a stud male at least. Plants that dont reverse like exodus cheese are the lines you want to keep.

 

[ojd]

MR Nice seeds is defo the spot for old Neville strains as shanit received all of Neville's seeds and strains many years back. We dont know how many clones he has lost but he always has the original Neville seed stock to go back to.

Shanti gives 15 seeds plus a pack so that enough to find a keeper or 2 for sure. Dont pop 5 seeds and wonder why you didnt find a keeper ?.

Also for the record MR Nice does sell CBD Feminized seeds of Cookies, OG Kush and some his strains like Shark Shock .

Peace

 

[AFGHANICA79]

MR Nice seeds is defo the spot for old Neville strains as shanit received all of Neville's seeds and strains many years back. We dont know how many clones he has lost but he always has the original Neville seed stock to go back to.

Shanti gives 15 seeds plus a pack so that enough to find a keeper or 2 for sure. Dont pop 5 seeds and wonder why you didnt find a keeper ?.

Also for the record MR Nice does sell CBD Feminized seeds of Cookies, OG Kush and some his strains like Shark Shock .

Peace

I thought it was cbd crew that cbdeed the cookies n og kush if mns is selling under mns then its defo cbd crew stock, Is that in auctions or mns site ojd?

 

[Jammal]

Just lol at miserable old bean snobs....please


I'm gonna throw a second recommend for big buddah silver cheese and his super automatic sativa

These are both excellent and consistent to that old SSH of old

Also give serious Kali mist a consider also right up that alley of classic greatness

 

[willydread]

oh geez i wonder how many spin offs hybrids in america came from orig mr nice gear.......but you wouldnt realize it if your nuts just dropped!

From Neville's work perhaps, not from mns...

I would rather wade through old nevs stock from mns than accept a keeper pheno from someone but thats just me as i like to see the population n pick my own..

I always do an open pollination of all the strains I receive, I am not a man of cuttings, even if unfortunately sometimes some old strains exist only as cuttings...

Shanti doing the real canna community a service by not offering modern strains and diluting nevs originals.

He claims to be the only one to have Neville's original genetics, but I've never seen anything new for years, just crosses from other crosses ...

MNS, senses, tfd, all claim to have the original things (by Neville, or Sam) that only they have the best, but when farmers complain that things are not going well (seeds that do not germinate, hermaphrodites, different plants as they should be) they refuse to answer, or they use the usual story of the farmer who is not capable, loss of light, etc. ...
And their fanboys are especially skilled in this ...
If I spend a lot of money on a few packets of seeds, I PRETEND that something tops out, which matches the description of the strain, because 36 seeds of Neville haze (or ssh) cost enough


I don't want to seem rude to you, we are exchanging experiences, and as far as my experiences are concerned, mns is no longer the great seedbank that was 10/15 years ago, and the same with Shanti, always present to extinguish criticism, but absolutely ethereal in sharing information about a lineage, or genetics ...

Ps I'm not a cookie type, ice cream, etc., they prefer a good old mango haze, or afghan haze (staying in the mns house)

 

[Sativied]

I think SSH is the same as Jack Herer. I am growing a selected Jack right now. Will know more in a couple months after flowering.

It’s not, but then in a way it is. Definitely can find overlap in phenos. Same parent varieties, slightly different mix. Don’t remember exact details but I’m certain. There are a few others that are very similar, just different phenos or mixes of the same ol’... Heck, even the plants I got going now are still descendants of NL#5 haze, skunk, shiva, afghani and original haze.


I’m getting old, memory is not what it once was. I wrote a ton about this topic scattered across sites, and yet still it’s all vague now.

Couple of things I’ll say though. First let me echo the seemingly not so nice comment that was made about shanti (I assume you all mean shanti and not mr nice), if he’s supposed to be top breeder... yikes.

The “they lost the original clones” is a classic by now. That claim has an origin story by itself. In short, it’s what disgruntled ex-employees (shanti, arjen, neville) say about their employer when they start their own seed business. Worked against Sensi, and GHS and mr nice have their own share in using it, and apparently as well as it being used against them.

Like the Comedian said, “it’s all f*cking joke”. It’s silly to suggest they ever had the best clone in what was just a small batch of often unstable varieties. The mistake people make is thinking people like Neville and shanti were great breeders in the first place, and had some exclusive knowledge or techniques. What most of them were, is Ben Dronkers (sensi) wannabees. Not breeding-wise, but commercially. That is the source of this all. Producing seeds was the easy part. What they all did did is chuck Sam’s, with Nevil’s and Ben’s.

The main task was checking what hadn’t been crossed yet. The old catalogs show that too. When the most obvious was done already, others started to become more secretive about where they started, while it was obvious where almost everyone got their seeds (sensi shop). If they could’ve back then, they would have pushed out new varieties faster than your average seed producer now. The whole original thing now is just marketing.

I’d much rather buy from MNS now then 20 years ago, I’m sure they learned a lot along the way. That experience weighs much more than having the imaginary original clones. If you want SSH, it’s definitely the place to go.

oh geez i wonder how many spin offs hybrids in america came from orig mr nice gear.......but you wouldnt realize it if your nuts just dropped!

Quite a few, yet it seems not nearly as many as those based on sensi and nevilles pre mns. Especially in the early 90s, shortly after they started sending seeds internationally, people in the US suddenly found kush / afghanis in their mexican sativa brick bags. All coming back, once the cheap stuff, now at the top of menus with fancy names.

 

[AFGHANICA79]

From Neville's work perhaps, not from mns...


I always do an open pollination of all the strains I receive, I am not a man of cuttings, even if unfortunately sometimes some old strains exist only as cuttings...



He claims to be the only one to have Neville's original genetics, but I've never seen anything new for years, just crosses from other crosses ...

MNS, senses, tfd, all claim to have the original things (by Neville, or Sam) that only they have the best, but when farmers complain that things are not going well (seeds that do not germinate, hermaphrodites, different plants as they should be) they refuse to answer, or they use the usual story of the farmer who is not capable, loss of light, etc. ...
And their fanboys are especially skilled in this ...
If I spend a lot of money on a few packets of seeds, I PRETEND that something tops out, which matches the description of the strain, because 36 seeds of Neville haze (or ssh) cost enough


I don't want to seem rude to you, we are exchanging experiences, and as far as my experiences are concerned, mns is no longer the great seedbank that was 10/15 years ago, and the same with Shanti, always present to extinguish criticism, but absolutely ethereal in sharing information about a lineage, or genetics ...

Ps I'm not a cookie type, ice cream, etc., they prefer a good old mango haze, or afghan haze (staying in the mns house)

Times change , Tastes change and so does tolerance, It might not be the best idea to be full of nostalgia when sprouting seeds as some might get disapointed. Private mail shanti if bad germ rate and he will sort you out, Making a thread out of it usually ends up in an argument. People have good experiences with mns and they will defend which can come across as fanboyish.


The man has tegridy lol and 1 of the best canna breeders on this planet with a keen eye on selections , Working lines expertly.

I dont expect anything new from mns at all i expect is old nevs n shantis stock, lineages are there to see and doesnt rename to hide genetics and anything i have asked there was honest reply about genes.

I like cookies and cake but i wouldnt like to see them crossed to nevs or shantis stock and offered for sale by mns.