STRONGEST SATIVA

[ngakpa]

Ten minutes later: "Erm - what was in that last one...?"

Twenty minutes later: "Does anyone fancy a walk...?" etc etc...

lol - hahaha ... yep, seen that more than a few times when friends came to visit -

Sadly I finished it last night, but I do have plenty seeds, and the few folks I gave bits to also have seeds saved (that was the condition on which they received it!), so hopefully we'll be doing the Chiang Mai stroll in the UK by next summer...

definitely - really curious to know the outcome, positive or negtive (and if there are hermies, it would be a noble deed indeed to (try to) breed the wee fuckers out)

 

[Guest]

ngakpa,

What can you tell me of the genetics from From Nakan Pranom in northeast Thailand?

I just picked up some of Dr. Atomic's Thai Lights which is a cross between Thai genetics from Nakan Pranom and Northern Lights. Hopefully this will give me a taste of the Thai without the long flowering times.

 

[ngakpa]

hey Hash Assasin,

I would love to be able to help you there, but like I say, I am no kind of expert on these things, just lived and travelled in Thailand a while

I remember reading the info about Thai Lights ... my guess is that "Nakhon Pranom" may be a typo for Nakhon Phanom, which is a region in Northeast Thailand, aka Issan (Isan/Esan - seen it typed all sorts of ways, there is no standardised way of writing Thai in English ... see my lousy efforts above ... I suspect one "s" is less misleading for pronunciation = EE-san ...)

one the map Nakhon Phanom borders with Laos, right on the Mekong ... in fact it is the region SamS mentioned above, so yeh "Pranom" is a typo ... cf. SamS's post above:

Issan had the best herb in Thailand, until the Thai army and the DEA got rid of most of it. From Sakon Nakhon to Nakon Phanom up on the Lao border was where they grew it. Issan has great food and cheap prices as it is off the beaten track in a deprived area.

and yeh, Issan food is fecking delicious - try any of the labs ("spicey salad" is an innacurate description, but will do) - dab wan - and "hoh la pa" ("Sweet Basil") and the other herbs ("samunpai") etc. you get to eat raw with dishes ... always used to eat at the Issan restaurants in Chiang Mai ... the best is north of Pahpokklao Road, near the big electrics store ... run by a loud lady from Issan (as most good restaurants in Thailand are - either loud or beautiful anyway ...)

 

[ngakpa]

... on a culinary note, a freind of mine from Issan (Loei) just adds that there are also delectable dog dishes available in Nakhon Phanom too

perhaps not ideal when under assault from a Thai sativa high, but who knows, maybe it will rock somebody's boat


more seriously, for the non-veggies out there - "dab wan" is delicious in the extreme (main ingredient is liver - but so fecking nice)

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

No pipe has ever been found in the old world pre-1492, as far as I know.

according to a work called Hemp & History by Robert A. Nelson, it says that whilst the smithsonian institute was studying textiles, they not only found hemp textiles but also clay pipes with cannabis residues in them:
http://www.rexresearch.com/hhist/hhist2~1.htm
circa 400 BC in modern Ohio
read the first paragraph.

peace.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Three points,
First of all the work was done in (1891), by Smithsonian Institute ethnologist W. H. Holmes so I doubt he could confirm with certainty it was cannabis in the pipes.
Second is that Cannabis was not in the New world as far as I know pre 1492.
Third is that I referred to the old world, you refer to the new world about pre-1492 pipes. I have no doubt at all that pipes were used in the OLD world pre 1492.
New World = the Americas, North and South.
Old World = Africa, Asia, Europe.
-SamS

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

Three points,
First of all the work was done in (1891), by Smithsonian Institute ethnologist W. H. Holmes so I doubt he could confirm with certainty it was cannabis in the pipes.
Second is that Cannabis was not in the New world as far as I know pre 1492.
Third is that I referred to the old world, you refer to the new world about pre-1492 pipes. I have no doubt at all that pipes were used in the new world pre 1492.
New World = the Americas, North and South.
Old World = Africa, Asia, Europe.
-SamS

hola sam,
you sure did say old world excuse me!

regarding point 1: the paper was written well after 1891 though, and the smithsonian institute nowdays would be able to determine the contents of the pipes.

regarding point 2: that issue is still in debate. considering that the flora of south america is not very known and huges areas still remain un-explored.
also, considering point 1, if cannabis was indeed in them ohio pipes, you can bet cannabis was in the new world pre 1492.

point 3: again, excuse me for the confusion with 'old' and 'new'.
although i remain curious, i am not sure, but the famous hookas of the middle east and chilums of india were there prior to the introduction of tabacco from the new world. people were using them for cannabis and opium.

peace!

 

[h g]

interesting reading ppl

has anyone read the emperor wear no clothes by Jack Herer....he's published half of each chapter of the book on his web site so if you find it interesting you buy the full book

http://www.jackherer.com/chapters.html

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

PazVerdeRadical,
#1, The question is did they confirm it was cannabis with an an analysis? I have not seen the results of any analysis, have you? What do you mean the paper was written well after 1891?
#2, Please show me any example of pre-1492 cannabis found in the new world, confirmed by analysis, there is none.
#3, Hookas were not around pre-1492, they were developed after the introduction of tobacco to the OLD world, after 1492. Check your history.
-SamS

 

[Guest]

#3, Hookas were not around pre-1492, they were developed after the introduction of tobacco to the new world, after 1492

Maybe I misread this, but are you sure about that SamS ?
I thought 1492 meant the introduction of tobacco to the old world. Eh ... so tobacco has its origins in the new world.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

hello sams and _o,

i'm sure sam meant introduction of tabacco to the old world

back to the points:

1. i would guess the smithsonian institute would carry the proper tests needed before making any claims, wouldn't you guess the same?
the paper written well after 1891 is the source of information and references for the info we are discussing, the robert nelson: a history of hemp. old pieces are always ran through new analysis techniques as these techniques become available (sp?).
2. considering an insitution like the smithsonian would carry out the proper tests before making such claims, it is reasonable to accept the broad possibility that cannabis was indeed present in the new world prior to 1492. or this all a big conspiracy to make cannabis present in the americas prior to 1492?
3. according to wikipedia:

"Tobacco smoking was not the original use of hookahs, as there are many examples of hookahs in both art and archeology prior to the arrival of tobacco in the Old World. In this period, the substance most commonly smoked in hookahs was hashish. After tobacco was imported from the Americas in the 1600s, hookah use became more widespread because of tobacco's milder effect.
Opium, previously taken orally and mostly regarded as as a medicine, was added to tobacco and smoked from the 1800s onwards. This mixture, called "madak", turned out to be more addictive than orally-ingested opium and created many social problems, especially in China. Although the practice of smoking opium and hashish in hookahs is not extinct, today hookahs are generally used for smoking tobacco."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookah#History

peace!

 

[zamalito]

I strongly disagree that tobacco was strictly new world in precolombian times. I refer you to the work of Dr. Balabanova and the tombs of Ramses and henet taui as well as some 40+ other sudanese mummies from the egyption empire that have tested positive for both tobacco and coca in their hair samples. With king ramses the tobacco was probably used as an antimicrobial preservation agent. Pieces of tobacco were actually found in his bandages. This all suggests an extinct african tobacco species. Tobacco is a very important sacramental plant in world history. I believe this plant is now extinct. They've also found eastern european corpses which had probably used tobacco in precolombian times. We really tend to underestimate the value of plants of all types before modern culture. They didn't have chemical labs. They had plants. Even something as seemingly ineffectual as culinary seasonings were extremely valuable and prompted many very long and dangerous expeditions. Entheogenic plants (of which the americas were filled with) were even more valuable. Nothing suprises me as far as the spred of plants at any period of human history. Hashish and opium were also present in the egyptian empire so this places tobacco hashish and opium within close proximity to europe asia and africa 1000 years before christ.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

well said zamalito specially the point of not having labs, and understanding nature as a big pharmacy
either there is a now extinct coca plant in africa or they were using a similar plant that grows in asia (if memory serves right). also, they may have had contact with pre-incan andenean cultures. it has already been shown how pre-incan sailing technology was capable of crossing through the pacific from the coast of peru to rapa-nui and further.
there's discussion of other types of technologies being used as well, not only sailing or wheel, but aircrafts. ever seen the astronaut at palenque?





peace!

 

[zamalito]

Yes paz, I love the astronaut. The indigenous south americans frequently soar through space and time on their beloved psychedelics (I believe I told you of my time traveling adventure on south american psychedelics. I went forward in time but never went back in time to return, lol) anyways plants didn't just represent pharmacies but almost everything we use chemical factories for today, dies, pigments, flavorings, perfumes, building materials, preservatives, weather proofing, textiles etc. All of this came from plants. Just about everything that wasn't made from mud or rocks came from plants. Plants are nature's chemical factories.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

My mistake,
1492 is both the introduction of smoking to the OLD world and tobacco.

You guys need to seperate what you would like to see from what has been proven to be. They are not the same.

PazVerdeRadical,
I would guess that the Smithsonian could not confirm that the pipe contents was Cannabis with out analytical tests that were unavailable pre-1964 with the discovery of THC. Robert Nelson's work is full of errors.
Please show an example of Cannabis pre-1492 from the new world. You can not because there is none. Please show me one.
Wikipedia is not fact it is opinion. Although handy it is not science as anyone can post anything, true or not.

zamalito,
Hash and opium found with Egypt mummies is not to surprising, they are both old world crops. As for tobacco or coca this is very controversial, I would be surprised if a valuable plant like tobacco or coca would be allowed to become extinct as you suggest. Many researchers do not accept the results. I am not sure what to think.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Article on antiquity of Cannabis remains found:

http://mojo.calyx.net./~olsen/HEMP/IHA/jiha5208.html

 

[zamalito]

I'm sure you're aware of instances in history where man has harvested medicinals and spices that were highly prized into extinction. Silphion a relative of fennel was a very highly prized as a spice and oral contraceptive in the classical greek and roman cultures and was harvested into extinction. This species was one of the most highly prized plants in human history and yet was still allowed to become extinct. I've been working on reintroducing lady's slippers into the wild for the last 5 years. This wild orchid was also known as american valerian because of it's anxiolytic properties. This species was also harvested very close to extinction at one point because of its desirability and high levels of benzodiazepan like compounds. That said I believe it is just as likely if not moreso that tobacco and possibly were traded to the old world. Some of the traditional tobacco curing techniques could've easily killed any viable seed and coca seeds are only viable for very short periods. There's also the possibility that cuttings could've been traded from the new world. All of the known erythroxylum species and subspecies that produce medicinal levels of ecgonine type alkaloids will not produce embryos if grown from cuttings. Several tobacco species are dioecious. This would mean that there was no way to produce seed or allow the occurance of any sort of variability of pathogen resistance or environmental hardiness. One bad growing season could destroy the species as a whole in a region. It is theorized the desertification of africa is what ended the egyption empire. If this is the case the species could've been eliminated from the region no matter how it was cultivated or whether brought over or indigenous.

Without going into my personal details I will say that I've known my whole life that eastern and caribbean american indians played a crucial role in the introduction of tobacco into the old world. However I've had to change my mind because of balabanova's research is practically airtight. Every time someone comes up with an alternate explanation for her results she comes up with a new experiment to discredit any doubts that come up. I know her research is controversial and earth shaking but those that doubt her results really don't have much ground to stand on other than the fact that parts of history that we've always accepted have to be rewritten.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I have grown maybe 20-30 tobacco varieties, both wild and modern cultivars and they were always perfect, I never saw a dioecious plant. They sure do produce a lot of resin though.
Cannabis is a lot different from a species that is collected faster then it propagates, as with plants that have gone extinct. Cannabis is easy to propagate in unlimited quanties.
Read Robert Clark's comments about Balabanova's research, it is not airtight.
-SamS

 

[zamalito]

I didn't get much of a scientific critique of balabanova's research in Clarke's paper. I pretty much gathered that he said it was unusual but not much more than that. I didn't read any contradictory evidence. Perhaps there was a reference that I'd missed. I will reread.

What nicotiana species have you grown? I'm looking at separate male and female tobacco plants right now. I think they're aztec nicotiana alata. Its the only dioecious tobacco I've come across but I believe there are a few more central and south american species or at least cultivars of those species which are also dioecious. As far as I'm aware all nicotiana tobaccum species wild and cultivated are monoecious. I made my own cigars for the first time from scratch this year out of uncured burly and cured virginia tobaccos. It was a lot of fun. I still by my tobacco for rolling cigarettes because curing tobacco is a serious hassle. I'm glad to see you're a tobacco connoisuer

 

[Guest]

This is a great thread! Thanks for all the knowledge.

Here is a story I have written here before and even sadder after watching Blood Diamonds last night ( got the DVD from a member of the Academy).

In New York in the early eighties I knew a guy through friends who was an ambassador to the UN from Sierra Leone. He would bring us weed in Diplomatic Pouches since they can't be searched. It would be in aluminumn foil,, black and hard, really dry , with a few seeds ( wish I had known.)
I found out that in the 90's during the war, my friend died of starvation which is the sad part of the story. We found out years after the fact.

I didn't smoke it right away the first time. I was with a few friends and we smoked a joint. We literally laid down on the sidewalk because we were so fucked up. I felt like I was tripping. I have never had a weed experience like that except for eating it.

What kind of sativa is that and what kind of cannibinoid causes that kind of psychedelic high? I don't think I would enjoy smoking a lot of it, but I would like to try it again. I have the SK#1 a OH and look forward to trying it.

Is there an indoor weed that can get the same kind of high or is that a tropic only potential?