STRONGEST SATIVA

[mriko]

is not I think reason enough to exclude the possibility that drug cannabis arrived in Thailand from Southern China ..

yup, But rather than originating from straight Han influence (invasion of Yunnan pushing people down south), what about it being rather introduced (in the northern hills) through contact between the numerous Sino-tibetan tribes which are present from the hills of Arunachal Pradesh to those of Vietnam.

personally though, ignoring the Han, I would not want to dismiss the possibility that drug cannabis lines were being selected for in China ... given that Southern China contains many non-Han ethnic groups who are known for cultivating drug cannabis ... many of these are the same ethically Thai groups we have been discussing ... the Hmong, the Yao, the Lisu etc. etc.

Definitely, but I find it unaccurate to talk about China in this case and better to take Yunnan and Sichuan as cultural entities apart from China. But that's a personnal point of view, considering that when I read "China", I read "Han".

"Ma" - means "hemp" - "Da" means big

"Ma" means fiber (Da Ma, for "great fiber", but it eventually turned to meaning the hemp plant)

as I expect people here now, the Hmong are known to have been involved in a large way with the Americans in producing herb and opium as part of the anti-communist struggle in SE Asia ... a legacy of this decision is their contiuning trouble with the Laos PDR government ... I believe there are still very large refugee communities within Thailand, who are gradually being resettled in the US ...

Famous "Air America". Actually it's the French services which started first to "work" with Hmong and making them producing more opium for heroin factories. That was during Indochina war. But when we left, we also let the people who helped us in total shit. French services then provided contacts and tricks to CIA to make their own business during Vietnam war.

I'm sorry mriko I reread this and there is no mention of cannabinoids. It just mentions the use of bovine bone chillums for smoking plant material. Here it is from a chapter "mushrooms and evolution" by dennis meckenna. But it is evidence of chillum use while tobacco was still strictly a new world plant so it's still interesting.

thanks for the precision Zamalito, now I understand the purported link to Hinduism. Did some search on the net, but until now, only references I could find were from McKenna.
But I have to admit I find it hard to conceive some sadhu would use Nandi Bones for smoking (or maybe a specific Sadhu school, such as Aghori, but those would probably rather use human bones hahah !). Maybe Naga Sadhu could tell us ?

Hey, while searchingfor info about it, I found ou this COMPLETE version of McKenna's Food of the Gods , here's the link for those interested.

Irie !

 

[ngakpa]

yup, But rather than originating from straight Han influence (invasion of Yunnan pushing people down south), what about it being rather introduced (in the northern hills) through contact between the numerous Sino-tibetan tribes which are present from the hills of Arunachal Pradesh to those of Vietnam.


Definitely, but I find it unaccurate to talk about China in this case and better to take Yunnan and Sichuan as cultural entities apart from China. But that's a personnal point of view, considering that when I read "China", I read "Han".



"Ma" means fiber (Da Ma, for "great fiber", but it eventually turned to meaning the hemp plant)
Irie !

I would take hemp and hemp fibre to be cognate, and "ma" in Mandarin does just mean straight cannabis like you say (never let it be said I am less of a pedant than the next man lol) ... as evidence of just what a bizarre language Mandarin is, by varying the tone the sound "ma" can also mean "mother", "scold", "swear", "horse", and is also the basic sound to indicate a question

"Da" there also means "big" as much as it means "great" (in the sense of esteemed) - the character is the one for "ren" (man) with a horizontal line through it

I do have a smattering of Mandarin, so this is all from memory - correct me if I am wrong, but likewise I am not just being shamelessly pretentious here (ahem)

I can't agree that it is any more accurate to talk of Sichuan and Yunnan, than just China - China is of course dominated by the Han, but in the historical context we are discussing I would argue it is in fact less accurate to talk of those two provinces, unless you can show me they were in existence at any of these points (perhaps they were, I don't know) as provinces

however, in my mind when I think Southern China, prior to the Southern Song (pre-14th century, is that right?) I think of a region which is known for being dominated by ethnic groups other than the Han

Arunachal Pradesh is an area I am also really interested in - do you have much info on cannabis use there? (it's familiar to me mainly in the context of Nyingma Buddhism and Tibet) ... no doubt there are some killer sativas round there and Bengal etc.

regarding arriving through the ethnic groups via NE India, Burma etc. - yes I think this is also highly likely - after all most of the ethnic groups there are or were nomadic/semi-nomadic (as well as presumably being invloved in trade - cf. cloth production and so on)

feck knows, basically

 

[mriko]

"Da" there also means "big" as much as it means "great" (in the sense of esteemed) - the character is the one for "ren" (man) with a horizontal line through it

I do have a smattering of Mandarin, so this is all from memory - correct me if I am wrong, but likewise I am not just being shamelessly pretentious here (ahem)

I don't know much about Mandarin actually heheh. I base myself on a pretty interesting chinese research paper : The Origin and Use of Cannabis in Easter Asia : Their Linguistic-Cultural implications, by Hui-Lin Li.

For hemp chinese character, you need to add the horizontal line, but also a vertical one through the middle. Make two likethis side by side, then above them an horizontal line, which goes down at 90° on the left. Then add a short vertical line top of it. Actually represent drying plants, hung upside down.

however, in my mind when I think Southern China, prior to the Southern Song (pre-14th century, is that right?) I think of a region which is known for being dominated by ethnic groups other than the Han

I rather go til before beginning of our area. One interesting thing I found is that around 221BC an existing road in Sichuan was extended towards today's Qujing in Eastern Yunnan. about 100 years later another expedition was sent down to "Yunnan area" to establish some commandery, with 24 subordinates county, one of them being named Yunnan. At this same time, the road to Qujing was improved and expanded Southwestward to Burma and India, in order to boost the existing trade.

one more brick for the house ?

Arunachal Pradesh is an area I am also really interested in - do you have much info on cannabis use there? (it's familiar to me mainly in the context of Nyingma Buddhism and Tibet) ... no doubt there are some killer sativas round there and Bengal etc.

Definitely there must be some great strains overthere. But seems that ganja production is rather from Manipur, Assam, Nagaland, and Arunachal rather going on poppies growing and opium consumption.

Irie !

 

[Jesusbuiltmygro]

NO SUCH THING

It's that simple there cannot be a plant honestly rated as the world strongest Sativa because modern science barely even understand why the shit get you high in the first place.

Don't be too obsessed with strength and go for the overall most desired Sativa instead. I have no idea what that is though..sorry. I liked Cinderella 99 but there are stronger ones. C99 has the short height and tighter internode advantage of some of the better Sativa's also very good potency, health, yield and some decent phenos.

In many situation you will have to sacrifice awesome yield for ideal taste and smell. Both of which are very appealing to consumers and smokers alike. BAG APPEAL

 

[ngakpa]

The Origin and Use of Cannabis in Easter Asia : Their Linguistic-Cultural implications, by Hui-Lin Li.

One interesting thing I found is that around 221BC an existing road in Sichuan was extended towards today's Qujing in Eastern Yunnan. about 100 years later another expedition was sent down to "Yunnan area" to establish some commandery, with 24 subordinates county, one of them being named Yunnan. At this same time, the road to Qujing was improved and expanded Southwestward to Burma and India, in order to boost the existing trade.

one more brick for the house ?


Definitely there must be some great strains overthere. But seems that ganja production is rather from Manipur, Assam, Nagaland, and Arunachal rather going on poppies growing and opium consumption.

Irie !

hello again venerable Mriko

I'll have to have a read of that paper

where did you find that info about Sichuan and Yunnan?

yeh, do please post whatever else you find, I would love to build up a picture of the potential origins of Thai sativas

some time back Naga Sadhu wrote an excellent post on how to get around the growing regions of Northeast India - I think it is in the world guide section for those who are interested

Arunachal Pradesh is still high on my list despite not being big on growing - it is just too beautiful to miss ... as I say, from a personal perspective it interests me for the links with the Nyingma school of Tibetan Buddhism - there is an association with Guru Rinpoche (Padmasambhava) and also Vajrayogini, and a strong tradition of non-monastic practice (though I am not Buddhist, I find Dzogchen tantalising, hence the moniker)

and it's news to me that they grow a lot of poppy there - where do you find all this info?

to Tibetans the region is known as "Pemako" - a couple of years back a lama was here speaking about a school he runs in the area ... he wished to raise funds and interest people in teaching there (one of his issues was with the Indian government, who were prepared to fund the school only if an Indian syllabus was adopted ... whereas the lama felt that this was innappropriate for his area, which was culturally and ethnically Tibetan - there is a site for The Pemako Project up on the web)

but yeh, to get back on track, I am taking strongest sativa to mean the most intensely psychedelic, in a generally overwhelming way - for me I think that has to be Thai

a week or so ago a friend reminded me of a bizzare incident involving smoking Thai and a seeming instance of telepathy - I have never been so sure about such things, but I remember the event vividly - it was very strange indeed, and wholly convincing, lasting a good hour or more ... what she reminded me of, which I had forgotten, was that we had been smoking some imported Thaistick ... I guess this was ten years ago, at least

ramble ramble, cheers

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Zamalito,
If you have a reference to a 15,000 year old pipe that had Cannabis debris I am interested. No pipe has ever been found in the old world pre-1492, as far as I know.

Farmer John,
The reason OH X SK#1 is not as good as OH is because SK#1 is not as good but makes it a lot easier to grow indoors.

Mriko,
Are you are presuming the same people collected seeds and moved and then grew at their new location? What if they traded for seeds took them home and grew them out and selected for a different end purpose? I am not sure a name means much if the seeds were obtained by trade, all european hemp came from Asia or Russia but is the name Russian or Asian? I am using a much more primative method, my sense of smell, and I smell the ancestors and relations of THAI and AFGHANI or INDICA in the landraces of Yunnan, as well as the gross physical characteristics. My friend Robert Clarke has disagreed for years with me on this issue, but this year he came around and says yes he now thinks it is a good chance of being true.

ngakpa,
You say the area near Chiang Mai has the best Thai herb? When did you find this out? I ask because the first time I went to Thailand was 1973 and I have been there more then 10 times, and not as a tourist, I was there only for seeds. I am not saying you did not say a lot of the truth about american $ causing huge production in
Issan followed by prohibition by the government. But I question how you believe it is possible to produce really great Cannabis without infrastructure that really large grows and lots of them give. It is the government pressure that caused the decline in quality. Number one problem in Thailand is that most of the Cannabis has a high percentage of hermaphrodite plants, this is from years and years of cultivation for sinsemilla, every year more seeds are used from pollinations that are from hermis and the genepool gets worse and worse. Real Thai growers get their seeds from a farmer that only grows seeds and kills all hermis male or female so not to use them for seed production. I am wondering how many hill farmers have this together? Most small farmers find a few seeds in their herb and use them next year, hermi or not. If farmers are trying to produce sinsemilla where do the few seeds found come from? From hermis or off farm males of unkown quality.
Also I never saw as good of herb in Chiang Mai as I did in Issan in the 70's. But you are right in I did not waste time with smaller growers I went for lots of selection from as big a crop as I could find. I am wondering have you been on a Thai Ganja farm? Thai Ganja farmers are very difficult to get close to. Hill tribe people generally are often much more open and will invite you right in. They don't have much to hide. They are not professional ganja growers. Do you really think that Thai is as good today as it was 30 years ago? Do you also believe that Afghani hash is as good as it was 30 years ago? The only tradittional Cannabis country that has gotten better and better is Morocco because the government leaves them mostly alone. Oh, and Mexico because of imported seeds and technology and a huge criminal power base.
If you think Thai is related to Indian Ganja, I say from where in India? I ask because I spent 20 years off and on traveling through India for seeds and I never saw any Cannabis in India that was similar to Thai in any way. Never.
I have grown Indian Cannabis from North, South, East and West India and none were like Thai.
While I have grown thousands and thousands of Yunnan plants and hundreds looked and smelled like THAI but were not potent at all.
If the Thai erradication programmes was a Macro event, what can I say? To me Thai was the best commercially produced Cannabis in the world and its loss is a crime. Try and find really great Cannabis or Cannabis seeds in Thailand today and you will understand what I mean, it is a joke compared to what it was. In the 1970's even in Bangkok you could buy great thai delivered to your room for $.50 a stick. What is the quality today? The best Cannabis I see in Thailand today is small amounts grown by Westerners or by farmers working with Westerners, why is that? I say because of the loss of most of the growers. If I sound harsh I do not mean to I just have strong opinions based on years of working with these issues.

-SamS

 

[Guest]

NO SUCH THING

It's that simple there cannot be a plant honestly rated as the world strongest Sativa because modern science barely even understand why the shit get you high in the first place.

Don't be too obsessed with strength and go for the overall most desired Sativa instead. I have no idea what that is though..sorry. I liked Cinderella 99 but there are stronger ones. C99 has the short height and tighter internode advantage of some of the better Sativa's also very good potency, health, yield and some decent phenos.

In many situation you will have to sacrifice awesome yield for ideal taste and smell. Both of which are very appealing to consumers and smokers alike. BAG APPEAL

c99 is probably 30% of what a sativa can be to be honest

 

[Farmer John]

Good info as always Sam, I know the Skunk makes it easier for a indoor plant but no worries, it is 100% more haze imo than many of the hazes that companies have to offer, thanks man youve done a great job, Shiva and me respect it. Oh, and cannabis usage before 14th century or so, the only thing I know is that it wasnt smoked in pipes or joints but arent the earliest findings all just plant matter/seeds and other found from ancient places, most probably used in rituals with other substances, drinks, thi ngs you rub in your skin etc., smoking cannabis in pipe doesnt date that far just like Skunkman said? Oh yes and Npet is right about C99, you just cant call it a pure sativa imo, C99 plants are midgets compared to lets say Indian or Mexican landrace plants, here a good example, same veg time.


C99

OhxSk#1

OHxSk#1 looks like a very typical sativa hybrid to me, C99 doesnt. difference in height about 1.3 meters and not to even mention plant/flower structure

And some NH just for the giggles

 

[Guest]

Farmer John i had noticed for quite a while your shot as picture of the moth or year maybe...

It was a c99 and a great looking plant, ive seen many people grow C99 that looks better than mine including you. Most can agree it has appeal very chunky buds. Its some good stuff to smoke on but theres something about the buzz that c99 is missing, something critical. not to mention the comedown.

 

[zamalito]

Sam, I've been trying to find pictures or a source that mckenna used. What I've found is that this same culture could've invented bronze casting and may have also been the first to domesticate plants and animals. Scientifically I've always felt that direct inhalation smoking techniques were invented in the new world. If you are interested and have the ability to contact dennis mckenna or anyone at the university of hawaii which is where the discoverers of the non nak tha also spelled non nok tha site were from I'd love to hear what you come up with. I will try to do the same and I will let you know what I come up with. You may have missed the post where I made a correction but I was mistaken. There were no residual cannabinoids. It was just burnt plant materials. I found a paper that probably would've mentioned it but I have to pay for it.

 

[ngakpa]

hiya Sam - thanks for the post, as you can see from above I am still trying to piece together a picture of the situation with grass in Thailand, past and present

I am not sure what you meant by "near" Chiang Mai - the area I am talking about is the hill and mountain area very roughly described by what was the Lanna kingdom ... more precisely (but still roughly lol) West, Northwest and North of Chiang Mai city, right up to the borders wiuth Burma (so including the Mae Hong Son region too)

so as to be clear, the generalisations I am making are on the basis of having lived, worked and travelled in Thailand for a total of about three years or more (I was living and working and on the road in Asia from 2000 - 2006) ... I have a passable amount of Thai and Pali (the language of the Theravadin Buddhist scriptures) and the regions I am describing are ones in which I had spent time living and in which I have good friends who are local people ... but still, my intention is not to appear as an authority, so I'm holding forth merely on the basis of my own experience, and that of reliable Thai and expat friends

a crucial point here is I obviously come from a younger generation than you (wasn't even born till '78) - but what I would say is in terms of smoking experience, I have spent most of the past seven years or so in Asia (I woprked in Japan prior to 2000), and in total I guess I've visited nigh on 30 countries over the years, in four continents (blag blag blag)...

I would have to rate the Thai I smoked up in Chiang Mai as the most psychedelic of anything I have smoked anywhere without a shade of a doubt, be it Morocco, the Amazon, Amsterdam or the Himalaya

in terms of second hand knowledge - the largest scale ganja production in SE Asia now occurs on the other side of the border of the hills I am talking about, in Burma

but I would question your assertion that the hilltribe villages of the Lanna region are not involved in commercial production of one kind or another, as I would question that not being involved in large scale production necessarily implies that they have been growing from hermies and seeing a great degeneration of quality

the best grasss I smoked in Chiang Mai came to me either via ex-pats who had lived there for decades, or from Thai friends who had brought it down from the dois themselves ... it had little or no seeds, but those which I did see were fully mature (and the few times I saw them pop, it was accidental, when they fell off the balcony into the garden, or into pots, and they popped fast - I shat myself when I saw some seedlings)

... on the subject of Issan, as I say, it is not a region I know from having spent any significant length of time there

what I can say is I do have a number of close friends from that region (not just giks, but Buddhist friends and so on) who I have known for years, and I can honestly recall even a very recent conversation with one of them who cited the hill regions of the North as the established home of the finest Thai herb ...

historically and ethically Issan has more in common with Laos and Khmer culture than it does with the Central and Lanna Thai regions, and it is obvious why if you look at a map .... I would be amazed if this is not to some extent reflected in their general type of herb too ... that is pure speculation though

in my experience, and this is only meant as point of interest for people who intend to visit, I found that grass got worse and harder to come by the further east I went from Chiang Mai ... the area that was the Golden Triangle was in my last visit, not a good place to get hold of grass -

but still, I think that the crucial difference was that I didn't have any good Thai friends or connected expat friends in the region ... and that is a crucial distinction I would make ... since whenever I have visited a place where I had Thai friends from the town or village, I could score whenever I wanted

anyway, I don't want to appear like I am trying to be an authority on these things - I can simply lay claim to having spent a lot of time in Thailand over the past few years ... it was my holiday destination of choice whenever I was working in East Asia, as well as a place I spent a lot of time on the road in

on the subject of Northeast India, much of it is historically a very ancient home of Tantra, and particularly Saivite, so I would guess it has been home to good herb for a long while ... there has been a historical movement through the geographic regions of NE India, through Burma into Thailand ... most significantly from the point of view of the Thai nation involving the gradual arrival of Theravadin Buddhism ... but also various forms of Tantra, and Mahayana Buddhism ... a lot of Indian influence arrived by sea too ... there are even very obscure forms of Pali Buddhist Tantra... I'm rambling but my point is I think it is highly likely that herb has travelled that route (along with others) into Thailand ... as for finding sativas of a Thai kind in NE India, I wouldn't know, but I would like to find out

I am pretty persuaded by the Yunnan theory though -

cheers, Ngakpa Namkha

 

[mriko]

Mriko,
you are presuming the same people collected seeds and moved and then grew at their new location?
What if they traded for seeds took them home and grew them out and selected for a different end purpose?

Yup, definitely. One of the cannabis' names if "follower of man". This is one of the plant which have followed human race in most of its migrations. But this you already know, eh ? Considering its importance (as a food, medicine, sacrament and so on), I hardly conceive that early nomadic civilisation hadn't done their seasonal migrations with some seeds in stock, at least as a food source.

seed trading and their importation, selective breeding most certainly happened too. We should take into account also the conqueiring armies who have brought with them the hemp plant such has did some Egyptian Pharao (Sesostris) in some areas of Caucasus (Mingrelia).

I am not sure a name means much if the seeds were obtained by trade, all european hemp came from Asia or Russia but is the name Russian or Asian?

Oh it means a lot. Very often the imported good "new name" is very closely linked (if not the same) to the name used in country of origin (and it's not about cannabis only, but many many other products).
About the name, well some theorie attribute a Sumerian/Hebrew origin , but another as well implies a Scythian origin (hanapiz, which would have lead to the greek kannabis and German hanf). Russian word is Konoplja/konopl'à, konopie for Polish, Konope for Slovak, Konopi for Czech, Canapa for Italian, Hennep for Dutch. Al that is pretty closse to "cannabis".

I am using a much more primative method, my sense of smell, and I smell the ancestors and relations of THAI and AFGHANI or INDICA in the landraces of Yunnan, as well as the gross physical characteristics. My friend Robert Clarke has disagreed for years with me on this issue, but this year he came around and says yes he now thinks it is a good chance of being true.

Well, all I have (except writings and experiences) is my deeep connection with the spirit of the plant, and I have real difficulties to find out how this could be. Through which link would the seeds have undergone such a long journey ? Hmmm, maybe some Chinese Buddhist monks crossing Karakoram/Hindu Kush on their way to India ? Maybe those who went there had with them some seeds from homeland brought as offerings ? But it would have rather been offered at their final destinations in India where they wre supposed to gather sacred texts and relics. Or could have it been brought FROM Afghanistan area TO Yunnan area by early migrants coming from middle east fertile crecent ?

I rather think that the origin of Afghani indica could lie in one of those three areas, whic are Tuva/Altai area, central Kazakhstan, or the mountains of Central Asia themselves (starting on the Northern fringe of Hindu Kush). But I might be wrong of course. I'm planning some journeys overthere for the next 3-5 years, so as to get some replies, hopefully...


Oh, what do you think about Karl Hilig's research about genetic differenciation of cannabis, which suppose that all fiber strains are sativa, and all drug strains are indica ?

where did you find that info about Sichuan and Yunnan?

was on several site about Yunnan, but also in Wiki (I know it's not always accurate, but having looked around and found always same info...)

About this South West road, I don't know for how long it was used and how intensively. But when the monk Fa-Hsien started his long journey towards India (around 400AD), rather than taking this shorter southward way (nicknamed "way of Barbarians), he travelled across whole Taklamakan, then crossed the mountains ranges of today's Pakistan before reaching his destination in India. That's pretty normal for ont he way were numerous buddhist temples and Stupa in most Northern Pakistan. He went back home by boat, rather than taking this "shortcut".

and it's news to me that they grow a lot of poppy there - where do you find all this info?

Different reports, articles and papers.

No pipe has ever been found in the old world pre-1492, as far as I know.

What about the water-pipe bowls found in Ethiopia's cave of Lalibela, dating from 1380 (more or less 80 years), which have been tested positive for cannabinoid compounds ?

Oh, and cannabis usage before 14th century or so, the only thing I know is that it wasnt smoked in pipes or joints but arent the earliest findings all just plant matter/seeds and other found from ancient places, most probably used in rituals with other substances, drinks, thi ngs you rub in your skin etc., smoking cannabis in pipe doesnt date that far just like Skunkman said?

you don't need a pipe to smoke. A hollow reed works great.
Considering the way Scythians used cannabis, I find it hard to think that no one has thought before tobacco introduction about some way to improve the inhaling of smoke and intake of active compounds such as "Cheeta".

What I've found is that this same culture could've invented bronze casting and may have also been the first to domesticate plants and animals.

Seems they were the first to domesticate RICE actually and domesticate bovine, and the earliest dates are around 5000BC.All I found about these bones were some mention of them being "burnt", but nothing which lets supposing they were used for smoking. seems it had rather linked to some burial rites.

that's a pretty nice discussion here heheh,

Irie !

 

[Guest]

wanna take any of it back?

haah just kidding only time to post, ill have to enjoy later

 

[JollyGreenGiant]

Here's a somewhat pertinent article. There was a 2800 year old mummy found with a bag of marijuana leaves next to him.

" Archeologists found the mummy most intriguing because a sack of marijuana leaves was found buried alongside the corpse."

hxxp://english.people.com.cn/200612/23/eng20061223_335258.html?cn

Doesn't look like he was using a ROOR though.

 

[Elevator Man]

Don't know if any of you folks saw this when I posted it a few weeks ago, but I had it on excellent authority that it was authentic Thai - I have no reason to dispute that. Out of the 103g stick, I got around 40 healthy, perfect seeds - huge, light tan color, no markings, and a very pointed top end - again, dead ringers for Thai. The smoke was superb for imported - very fragrant, although more 'earthy' than fruity, and very, very strong - again 'for imported'. I plan to germ some of these soon. No idea on any more specific origins though.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Mriko,
" Oh, what do you think about Karl Hilig's research about genetic differenciation of cannabis, which suppose that all fiber strains are sativa, and all drug strains are indica ?"

Very interesting as far as it goes. He needed more seed samples from additional areas as well as additional methods which were unavailable at the time Karl did the work. But it is a start to explain the spread of Cannabis and the relationships that exist today. A lot is semantics, same plant different name. Karl should be thanked for his effort. We need more of this type of work with more accessions in all areas and the newer methods available today for analysis.

"What about the water-pipe bowls found in Ethiopia's cave of Lalibela, dating from 1380 (more or less 80 years), which have been tested positive for cannabinoid compounds ?"


1975 N.J. van der Merwe and L.B. Blank. Cannabis smoking in 13th-14th century Ethiopia:chemical evidence. In V. Rubin (ed.): Cannabis and Culture, pp.77-80. The Hague:Mouton
I am more then doubtful about the work. First of all when you analyze old burnt carbonized Cannabis you do not find THC9 or THC9 acid as the researchers claimed they did. They also do not explain their methodology at all. What you will find is maybe some of the CBD acid or most likely THC8 an artifact of the burning process. As Dr Mechoulam told me any analysis that finds burnt carbonized Cannabis hundreds of years old with THC present is suspect to say the least. When he found Cannabinoids in the 1600 year old burial of a young 14 year old girl in Jerusalem he found THC8, not THC9. I do not believe the Ethiopian find.

JollyGreenGiant,
Your link does not work.

-SamS

 

[mriko]

Here's the mummy story Sam :

Lab work to identify 2,800-year-old mummy of shaman: scientists



Chinese scientists are conducting laboratory work hoping to identify a 2,800-year-old mummy presumably of a shaman in the northwestern Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.

The well-preserved mummy of a seemingly Caucasian man with a Roman nose and deep-set eyes was unearthed from a cluster of ancient tombs in 2003 and research work has been going on ever since.

Archeologists found the mummy most intriguing because a sack of marijuana leaves was found buried alongside the corpse.

The mummy remains intact in its original outfit despite the passage of time: leather hat, heavy coat and boots, huge earrings of copper and gold, a turquoise necklace, a copper laced stick in the right hand and a bronze ax in the left, according to Li Xiao, head of the heritage bureau in Turpan.

Inside the leather coat, the man was wearing a dainty brown and red mantle, and his hands were crossed in front of his chest, said Li.

"From his outfit and the marijuana leaves, which have been confirmed by international specialists to be ingredients for narcotic, we assume the man had been a shaman and had been between 40 and 50 years old when he died," said Li, a noted historian in Xinjiang.

He said the corpse is about 1.2 meters long and its legs are at least 80 centimeters.

Li and his colleagues are taking fabrics from the mummy's clothes for laboratory work, hoping to identify the mummy and unravel more mysteries of shaman clothing, culture and religion.

The mummy was the best preserved one among some 600 excavated in 2003 from a cluster of 2,000 tombs in Turpan. Archeologists assume the tombs, which dated from the Bronze Age to the Tang Dynasty (618 - 907), belonged to several big clans.

Irie !

 

[Guest]

cool thread, i love geneaology

 

[ngakpa]

Don't know if any of you folks saw this when I posted it a few weeks ago, but I had it on excellent authority that it was authentic Thai - I have no reason to dispute that. Out of the 103g stick, I got around 40 healthy, perfect seeds - huge, light tan color, no markings, and a very pointed top end - again, dead ringers for Thai. The smoke was superb for imported - very fragrant, although more 'earthy' than fruity, and very, very strong - again 'for imported'. I plan to germ some of these soon. No idea on any more specific origins though.

heya Elevator Man - no I didn't see that pic, but it shares enough of the general characteristics of grass round Chiang mai - i.e. stuff I was seeing on a weekly basis - that if it didn't come from that region of Northern Thailand I am banging on about I would be very suprised indeed ... IME the more blue-green and grey the colouration, the stronger it was

the only time I saw that presentation outside of the North, was in stuff that had been brough into Bangkok - Klong Toi etc.

and yes, regarding "earthy" smells, I can almost smell it from just looking at it ... as you say, I would expect it to be extremely potent, (if not the ultimate "bee's knees", then a lesser representative of a fine genre)

my advice: invite round some inveterate indica smokers and scare the living shit out them with it lol .... I would expect the "rabbit in the headlights" expression to be on their faces within about five minutes

yeh, Elevator Man, you lucky git - chok dee etc. - man I would love some of that now... will have to make do with some Malawi hybrid (damn fine though it is!)... grrr

 

[Elevator Man]

Ngakpa - oh yeah, I've done that - had some friends like that over last week, and first comment was:
"Oh - you've got some commercial - is there any skunk around?".

Ten minutes later: "Erm - what was in that last one...?"

Twenty minutes later: "Does anyone fancy a walk...?" etc etc...

Sadly I finished it last night, but I do have plenty seeds, and the few folks I gave bits to also have seeds saved (that was the condition on which they received it!), so hopefully we'll be doing the Chiang Mai stroll in the UK by next summer...