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Strange Slime buildup on roots
- Thread starter guice
- Start date
RedReign
Active member
Has anyone had their water analyzed by a lab? Were they able to identify the source of the problem?
I had a similar problem when I moved a couple of years ago. I had continual root problems (in hydro) for months, after 8+ years of healthy roots. I tried everything I could think of, nothing worked. I finally switched to coco and was able to manage the problem, but not cure it 100%.
I have just recently moved my grow again and BAMMM, no more root problems. There was definitely a problem with the water at my last spot.
Anyone know of a lab I could send a sample of water from my last spot to? I've searched Google and found a bunch of test labs, but I'm hoping to find a place that is experienced in testing water used for growing plants in hydroponics.
Thanks.
I had a similar problem when I moved a couple of years ago. I had continual root problems (in hydro) for months, after 8+ years of healthy roots. I tried everything I could think of, nothing worked. I finally switched to coco and was able to manage the problem, but not cure it 100%.
I have just recently moved my grow again and BAMMM, no more root problems. There was definitely a problem with the water at my last spot.
Anyone know of a lab I could send a sample of water from my last spot to? I've searched Google and found a bunch of test labs, but I'm hoping to find a place that is experienced in testing water used for growing plants in hydroponics.
Thanks.
GrumpyGrower
New member
It would be most awesome to hear the opinion of an actual microbiologists on this slime. I myself switched to store bought filtered water and still have the problem
I switched over to ebb and flow even though my brain tells me it's more or less the same set up as a DWC. I have been changing the water out daily which is getting expensive, and yesterday my air stone was caked in mucus after only 24hrs. My 2 plants are huge and doing beautiful. Obviously I am still getting slime in my res, but I guess the fact that the roots sit in the air for a couple hours keeps them from getting slimed? Or maybe I just haven't given it enough time to fail yet.
Still playing around with the tea. Problem is I can't get clones to root, even in rockwool, so I've have no 'test' plants to try the tea on. My cuttings get mold on the leaves after a few days, even the rockwool plugs get fuzzy, even with daily sprayings of Zone. I suspect I leave the dome on too long, but when I take it off, even after a week, they fall over.
I tried coco and had fuzzy mold growing all through it after a couple days and it smelt like sour milk. I rinsed it pretty well and even let it soak in Zone overnight before I used it. Guess my local store only has the cheap stuff, and I guess my particular area had a real fungus problem in the warmer months.
I switched over to ebb and flow even though my brain tells me it's more or less the same set up as a DWC. I have been changing the water out daily which is getting expensive, and yesterday my air stone was caked in mucus after only 24hrs. My 2 plants are huge and doing beautiful. Obviously I am still getting slime in my res, but I guess the fact that the roots sit in the air for a couple hours keeps them from getting slimed? Or maybe I just haven't given it enough time to fail yet.
Still playing around with the tea. Problem is I can't get clones to root, even in rockwool, so I've have no 'test' plants to try the tea on. My cuttings get mold on the leaves after a few days, even the rockwool plugs get fuzzy, even with daily sprayings of Zone. I suspect I leave the dome on too long, but when I take it off, even after a week, they fall over.
I tried coco and had fuzzy mold growing all through it after a couple days and it smelt like sour milk. I rinsed it pretty well and even let it soak in Zone overnight before I used it. Guess my local store only has the cheap stuff, and I guess my particular area had a real fungus problem in the warmer months.
Hi RichyRich, thanks for the helpful response.
To respond to your post (I will put my questions in bold)-
Definately
I have a 70 LPM pump running 8 stones in the bottom of each bucket. The system I am using is a WaterFarm recirculating 8 pack, it recirculates the system from res through all buckets back to res roughly 6 times per day, or once every four hours. I am also running 2 airstones in the res. BTW, my drip timer is currently set for 30 min on / 1 hour off. Since the system recirculates the solution which adds oxygen, plus the drip ring aerates the water, plus I have airstones in each bucket + res, I don't know how the water could be stagnant.
I suppose it could have been high temperature issues that also helped the roots turn brown.
I'm wondering if when I treated my plants with Imidaclorpid (Bayer T&S 1 ml/gal) to inoculate when they were babies it killed all the beneficial bacteria and fungus on the roots that currently existed, and since I wasn't constantly "running it clean" and just using hygrozyme + nutes, that left an opening for root rot to set in without a layer of beneficals or a chemical aid as defense.
My first grow with the Waterfarms I didn't have airstones running the majority of the grow, and the roots overall were still brown but seemed to be doing a bit better than these did overall (that was under 2 x 250 W lights, I'm using 2 X 600 W lights now though, so the increased heat and environment change could have played a part in the roots being harder to deal with this go around). I'm supposing that might be because I never treated my first crop with anything that could have killed what beneficial bacteria & fungi that already existed on the cuttings when I picked them up?
Phew, thats good to know that it's not the dreaded "slime", and just Hygrozyme doing it's job!
Yes, I ordered a chiller for my res. The deal with the waterfarms is that hooking up a chiller to them is difficult; the system is run by gravity drain (since the recirculation is so slow). I hooked up the slowest pump I could find at a hydro store, a 132 gph pump, and it drained my res completely dry in 2-3 minutes.
So, instead I found the "coolworks iceprobe". It's basically a heatsink with a fin that you drill and install in your res, and it sucks the heat from the water with the heatsink and blows it away with a fan. Supposedly, with insulation on the res, it can lower it by up to 20 degrees! This definately should bring my water temperatures into the 60s in the res (even without insulating, but I will if temp is an issue).
Here's a link to the coolworks iceprobe, check it out if you're interested in a different style of chilling. It works better on a smaller res, should be perfect for a waterfarm 8 pack res (controller bucket). Gonna install it soon and check it out!
http://www.amazon.com/CoolWorks-Ice-Probe-Power-Supply/dp/B001JSVLBO
And yes, I definitely am interested in running beneficials, even if I do get my water temps in check. After reading this entire thread twice, I did a ton of research on Mycorrhizae, benefical bacteria, and Aerated Compost Teas, and it seems that more than just "curing" any root rot problems, it gives the plants other enormous benefits, such as an expanded strong root network (the myco), strength against diseases and pests, enhanced nutrient uptake, etc...(I assume the airstones in my DWC will give them a great environment to thrive as well; Also, the 2 gal buckets of hydroton should also provide the beneficials a place to live - while not as porous as lava rock, I assume it still should be able to harbor some beneficials <hopefully this will work as a biofilter>).
I am not currently using the Lucas formula, I am using the regular 3 part GH series formula (am just at the part of aggressive bloom where it recommends to drop Grow).
I actually have been considering switching over from the GH 3 part to FloraNova, because since it is part organic with the humic extracts etc, combined with my Floraliscious plus it should give the beneficials some food to survive in the system, correct?
I think the water cooler I bought will also help the beneficials out as well.
I have gotten most of the brown crap off of my roots with SM-90 and H202 and clearing out the dead crap with my hands, there is just a little bit remaining.
My Hydro shop is giving out free brewed tea samples, I was thinking of when I do a res change and install the IceProbe this weekend of starting up with the beneficals then. They don't normally stock GH Ancient Forest at GreenCoast, but I had them order me some - it's just going to take till Tuesday to get here, so I thought I'd try some sample tea in the meantime.
The beneficials will colonize and take care of the rest of my root problems, as well as strengthening the root system and giving my plant benefits, right? I still have about a month left on them so I want to help them out as much as I can.
Thank you for all of your help RichyRich!
Bud Bundy
Hi RichyRich,
Just a couple more questions about the tea.
1) I couldn't find ZHO at my hydro store, but Great White already has Trichoderma, so I should be able to leave out the ZHO out of the tea and be OK with what Great White provides, correct?
2) I read online that Root Exceleratur doesn't like being bubbled with an airstone. From this website (http://www.igrowhydro.com/HG-Roots-Excelurator-25-Liter.aspx), on the directions for Roots Excelurator it states:
"Contrary to what you might have heard with other nutrients, never use an oxygen pump in the nutrient container or in the growth table. This may have serious consequences for the stability of the nutrients."
Researching online, I've heard people say to be cautious when applying to DWC because of gunking, sludge/slime, etc - however, I don't think they were brewing a tea with it. I have also read that the warning for using Roots Excel in oxygenated environments was for an older formula that they have since revised.
Also, I've heard I should just apply Roots Excel on it's own (not to combine with other additives), and not to brew it in a tea with other ingredients since it is highly acidic - So, not sure what to believe from what I have read, but it seems like you've been having good results combining Roots Excel with other nutrients and oxygenating it by using it in a tea.
3) I should only really use roots excelurator during the Cloning phase (when roots first show up), and during Veg correct? Once I start flower or a couple of weeks into flower stop using it?
4) In your response, you said to use 20 ML of AquaShield, but in your sig you say to use 50 ML of AquaShield. Is the 20 ML assuming I'm making a smaller batch?
5) I plan on only mixing up a gallon of tea at a time, since the Waterfarm 8 pack doesn't hold all that much water.
If I am mixing up 1 gallon mix, should I just divide all of your ingredients listed by 4ths?
If so, would this be correct for the 1 gallon tea mix? I'm going to list the ingredients I actually am planning on using that I can get.
1 gal Tea Mix
1 gallon RO water
Roughly 1 handful of Ancient Forest
12.5mL liquid carbo load
1/4 scoop of Great White
1.25mL Root Excelurator
12.5 or 5 mL Aquashield?
Thanks again for helping me out with my tea questions!
Bud Bundy
Oh, one final question I can think of RichyRich, regarding cloning w/ the tea-
I currently clone via rockwool, if I am going to use the tea with the clones, would I combine using the tea with nutes such as Clonex, or just use the tea by itself with no nutes?
And would I use Roots Excelerator on the clones (in a tea) before I see roots, or wait until after I see roots? Do I ever also use Roots Excelerator directly on the clones roots, or just do it only via tea?
Thank you!
Bud Bundy
I currently clone via rockwool, if I am going to use the tea with the clones, would I combine using the tea with nutes such as Clonex, or just use the tea by itself with no nutes?
And would I use Roots Excelerator on the clones (in a tea) before I see roots, or wait until after I see roots? Do I ever also use Roots Excelerator directly on the clones roots, or just do it only via tea?
Thank you!
Bud Bundy
OMountainMix
Member
Bud, we've definitely decided that power clone works WAY better than clonex, if you can invest in some, it might make a difference with your cloning time and success. We were just talking about this the other night.
Hi OMountainMix, thanks for the response.
Yeah, I remember reading the posts about power clone, but it seemed that everybody was using it with an EZ Cloner, not with Rockwool. Would it work just as well in rockwool?
Either way, I still have a bottle of clonex to finish up. If power clone works with Rockwool I will def pick up for the next round. I should be able to combine either Power Clone or Clonex with the Aerated Compost Tea, correct?
See below.
Hi RichyRich, thanks for the helpful response.
To respond to your post (I will put my questions in bold)-
Definately
Since the system recirculates the solution which adds oxygen, plus the drip ring aerates the water, plus I have airstones in each bucket + res, I don't know how the water could be stagnant.
I didn't read clearly enough. You do have stones, good. It must be the temps. I'm stumped otherwise.
I suppose it could have been high temperature issues that also helped the roots turn brown.
I'm wondering if when I treated my plants with Imidaclorpid (Bayer T&S 1 ml/gal) to inoculate when they were babies it killed all the beneficial bacteria and fungus on the roots that currently existed, and since I wasn't constantly "running it clean" and just using hygrozyme + nutes, that left an opening for root rot to set in without a layer of beneficals or a chemical aid as defense.
My first grow with the Waterfarms I didn't have airstones running the majority of the grow, and the roots overall were still brown but seemed to be doing a bit better than these did overall (that was under 2 x 250 W lights, I'm using 2 X 600 W lights now though, so the increased heat and environment change could have played a part in the roots being harder to deal with this go around). I'm supposing that might be because I never treated my first crop with anything that could have killed what beneficial bacteria & fungi that already existed on the cuttings when I picked them up?
Phew, thats good to know that it's not the dreaded "slime", and just Hygrozyme doing it's job!
Yes, I ordered a chiller for my res. The deal with the waterfarms is that hooking up a chiller to them is difficult; the system is run by gravity drain (since the recirculation is so slow). I hooked up the slowest pump I could find at a hydro store, a 132 gph pump, and it drained my res completely dry in 2-3 minutes.
So, instead I found the "coolworks iceprobe". It's basically a heatsink with a fin that you drill and install in your res, and it sucks the heat from the water with the heatsink and blows it away with a fan. Supposedly, with insulation on the res, it can lower it by up to 20 degrees! This definately should bring my water temperatures into the 60s in the res (even without insulating, but I will if temp is an issue).
I've seen those. Should work good for your set-up.
Here's a link to the coolworks iceprobe, check it out if you're interested in a different style of chilling. It works better on a smaller res, should be perfect for a waterfarm 8 pack res (controller bucket). Gonna install it soon and check it out!
http://www.amazon.com/CoolWorks-Ice-Probe-Power-Supply/dp/B001JSVLBO
And yes, I definitely am interested in running beneficials, even if I do get my water temps in check. After reading this entire thread twice, I did a ton of research on Mycorrhizae, benefical bacteria, and Aerated Compost Teas, and it seems that more than just "curing" any root rot problems, it gives the plants other enormous benefits, such as an expanded strong root network (the myco), strength against diseases and pests, enhanced nutrient uptake, etc...(I assume the airstones in my DWC will give them a great environment to thrive as well; Also, the 2 gal buckets of hydroton should also provide the beneficials a place to live - while not as porous as lava rock, I assume it still should be able to harbor some beneficials <hopefully this will work as a biofilter>).
I am not currently using the Lucas formula, I am using the regular 3 part GH series formula (am just at the part of aggressive bloom where it recommends to drop Grow).
I actually have been considering switching over from the GH 3 part to FloraNova, because since it is part organic with the humic extracts etc, combined with my Floraliscious plus it should give the beneficials some food to survive in the system, correct?
I think the water cooler I bought will also help the beneficials out as well.
I have gotten most of the brown crap off of my roots with SM-90 and H202 and clearing out the dead crap with my hands, there is just a little bit remaining.
My Hydro shop is giving out free brewed tea samples, I was thinking of when I do a res change and install the IceProbe this weekend of starting up with the beneficals then. They don't normally stock GH Ancient Forest at GreenCoast, but I had them order me some - it's just going to take till Tuesday to get here, so I thought I'd try some sample tea in the meantime.
The beneficials will colonize and take care of the rest of my root problems, as well as strengthening the root system and giving my plant benefits, right? I still have about a month left on them so I want to help them out as much as I can.
I would start the beneficials now. Stop the SM90 and H2O2.
Thank you for all of your help RichyRich!
Bud Bundy
Just tea before roots start. When you have roots and root knubs, then hit them with nutes mixed with some tea and give them more light and then the roots will explode. I just use the root excel in the tea now. It saves a lot of $ too.
darthvapor
Active member
gonna give it another shot with the tea and great white and roots excel, liquid ewc, and mollases. dont have the rest of the supplies. havent been able to clone anything but frustration so far
OMountainMix
Member
Bud, you can use liquid power clone with any medium.
Great, thanks for answering all my questions RichyRich! I installed the IceProbe this weekend and started off with the beneficial teas.
The IceProbe has lowered my temps to max of 71-73 degrees at all times, although if I insulate the res or install 1 more Ice Probe I'm sure I'll be able to hit 60s constant.
Looking forward to seeing the beneficials in action!
Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions!
The IceProbe has lowered my temps to max of 71-73 degrees at all times, although if I insulate the res or install 1 more Ice Probe I'm sure I'll be able to hit 60s constant.
Looking forward to seeing the beneficials in action!
Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions!
Cool, I will definitely switch over to this from Clonex as soon as my old bottle of Clonex is finished.
Thanks!
darthvapor
Active member
just won a turboklone 48 in a raffle. gonna try to clone again in 2 diff machines now.
GrumpyGrower
New member
I was never able to successfully purge the slime from my buckets that were already infected. However I started some new seedlings and after several weeks I am seeing no sign of the slime at all. My roots are growing better than ever and staying super white. The addition of the ZHO powder to my tea seems to have been a huge help. So thanks once again to everyone who contributed!!
darthvapor
Active member
just got my free samples from great white and zho. gonna do one cloner with the tea the other without. my rockwool and oasis cloning seems to have a better success rate. If I dont figure out this aero cloning gonna have a ez-clone 120 and a turboklone 48 on the market or a trade.
On a side note, why not just drill larger holes in your waterfarm, add larger tubing.Hi RichyRich, thanks for the helpful response.
To respond to your post (I will put my questions in bold)-
Definately
Since the system recirculates the solution which adds oxygen, plus the drip ring aerates the water, plus I have airstones in each bucket + res, I don't know how the water could be stagnant.
I suppose it could have been high temperature issues that also helped the roots turn brown.
I'm wondering if when I treated my plants with Imidaclorpid (Bayer T&S 1 ml/gal) to inoculate when they were babies it killed all the beneficial bacteria and fungus on the roots that currently existed, and since I wasn't constantly "running it clean" and just using hygrozyme + nutes, that left an opening for root rot to set in without a layer of beneficals or a chemical aid as defense.
My first grow with the Waterfarms I didn't have airstones running the majority of the grow, and the roots overall were still brown but seemed to be doing a bit better than these did overall (that was under 2 x 250 W lights, I'm using 2 X 600 W lights now though, so the increased heat and environment change could have played a part in the roots being harder to deal with this go around). I'm supposing that might be because I never treated my first crop with anything that could have killed what beneficial bacteria & fungi that already existed on the cuttings when I picked them up?
Phew, thats good to know that it's not the dreaded "slime", and just Hygrozyme doing it's job!
Yes, I ordered a chiller for my res. The deal with the waterfarms is that hooking up a chiller to them is difficult; the system is run by gravity drain (since the recirculation is so slow). I hooked up the slowest pump I could find at a hydro store, a 132 gph pump, and it drained my res completely dry in 2-3 minutes.
So, instead I found the "coolworks iceprobe". It's basically a heatsink with a fin that you drill and install in your res, and it sucks the heat from the water with the heatsink and blows it away with a fan. Supposedly, with insulation on the res, it can lower it by up to 20 degrees! This definately should bring my water temperatures into the 60s in the res (even without insulating, but I will if temp is an issue).
Here's a link to the coolworks iceprobe, check it out if you're interested in a different style of chilling. It works better on a smaller res, should be perfect for a waterfarm 8 pack res (controller bucket). Gonna install it soon and check it out!
http://www.amazon.com/CoolWorks-Ice-Probe-Power-Supply/dp/B001JSVLBO
And yes, I definitely am interested in running beneficials, even if I do get my water temps in check. After reading this entire thread twice, I did a ton of research on Mycorrhizae, benefical bacteria, and Aerated Compost Teas, and it seems that more than just "curing" any root rot problems, it gives the plants other enormous benefits, such as an expanded strong root network (the myco), strength against diseases and pests, enhanced nutrient uptake, etc...(I assume the airstones in my DWC will give them a great environment to thrive as well; Also, the 2 gal buckets of hydroton should also provide the beneficials a place to live - while not as porous as lava rock, I assume it still should be able to harbor some beneficials <hopefully this will work as a biofilter>).
I am not currently using the Lucas formula, I am using the regular 3 part GH series formula (am just at the part of aggressive bloom where it recommends to drop Grow).
I actually have been considering switching over from the GH 3 part to FloraNova, because since it is part organic with the humic extracts etc, combined with my Floraliscious plus it should give the beneficials some food to survive in the system, correct?
I think the water cooler I bought will also help the beneficials out as well.
I have gotten most of the brown crap off of my roots with SM-90 and H202 and clearing out the dead crap with my hands, there is just a little bit remaining.
My Hydro shop is giving out free brewed tea samples, I was thinking of when I do a res change and install the IceProbe this weekend of starting up with the beneficals then. They don't normally stock GH Ancient Forest at GreenCoast, but I had them order me some - it's just going to take till Tuesday to get here, so I thought I'd try some sample tea in the meantime.
The beneficials will colonize and take care of the rest of my root problems, as well as strengthening the root system and giving my plant benefits, right? I still have about a month left on them so I want to help them out as much as I can.
Thank you for all of your help RichyRich!
Bud Bundy
darthvapor
Active member
richy. can you think of any good reasons why I can just brew the tea in the cloner for 48 hrs and then add my clones. Ive got airstones plus the aeration of the water while it sprays. I use liquid earthworm castings so nothing to strain anyways. what do you think??
