Stoner's Spring '06

[Captain Skunk]

Nice looking plants pipe!

Hi Suki, welcome, great avatar.

I think I could have chopped that plant all summer and it still would have jumped the fence.

 

[Guest]

Hey guys just browsing around and thought I would say hi.

 

[Guest]

Sorry pushed the wrong button. I really enjoy your thread stoner I hope you don't mind if I take notes from all of you outdoor pros like stoner, pipeline and captain jack. I will need all the help I can get this summer in my GH, second run.

I used Miracle grow last year on my plants in my GH and let me tell you they grew to be monsters. I once read on OG that Miracle grow was developed by an old hippie botanist to be used on his MJ plants. I can personally tell you that shit works, I have successfully used it for years.

Like Pipeline I am going to give it a run this year using organics. I don't know how successful i will be organics are a lot finnickier (sp).

Nice grow
GCG

 

[Zamboni Driver]

organics are a lot finnickier (sp).


GCG

no, no its more phinnikeigh

 

[Stoner133]

...I once read on OG that Miracle grow was developed by an old hippie botanist to be used on his MJ plants.
...
Nice grow
GCG

That's a good one.

I can tell you, from personal experience, Miracle Gro has been around a lot longer then the hippies. My Mother used it when I was a child in the '50's.

I doubt that it was developed with the needs of Cannabis in mind, but all plants share the same basic requirements for Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium and very near that ratio. The minor and trace elements are needed when growing in a non-soil medium like peat moss.

When I started growing again a few years back, I selected a two part hydro specific liquid fertilizer. By varying the ratio of each part, you can blend the correct ratios for vegging and blooming. It worked just fine.

After joining OG, a lot of outdoor growers were asking about using Miracle Gro and the overwhelming reaction was "Do not use it" for a variety of reasons that were clearly ridiculous. I came to the conclusion that the misinformation outweighed the truth by a ton.

It was clear to me that interests, other then accurate information, were at work. That, and the wide spread availability of the product, virtually anybody in any country has ready access to the product.

That is when I decided to put the product to the test. What I found was a well balanced fertilizer that my plants loved and the final result was completely satisfactory. I have continued to use it despite the availability of any competing fertilizer.

While shopping for a new light at the Hydro shop, I asked about the choices for soil based cultivation. They showed me several that covered the range of ratios and a blend intended for finishing. A quick glance at the price tag and I took all three to the counter. It wasn't 'till buddy rang them up that I realized I had misread the price tag. They were not $5.99 per kilo, it was $59.90.

$180 for the same chemicals that I can buy for $12? Now I know where all the anti-Miracle Gro bias comes from. Those growers that choose the high priced blends willing buy into the theory that Miracle Gro is bad to justify the 10 fold increase in price.

 

[pipeline]

When it comes down to it, its the same ions being taken up by the root, whether your feeding method is organic or not.

"Originally Posted by garlic city gro
organics are a lot finnickier"

i think organics is less finnickier (unless you're using all liquid apps.) because its a more buffered way of feeding the plant. You put into the soil what the plant will need for the majority of the season. Then you're basically done besides a possible early flowering or mid veg dose of fert.

 

[Captain Skunk]

$180 for the same chemicals that I can buy for $12? Now I know where all the anti-Miracle Gro bias comes from. Those growers that choose the high priced blends willing buy into the theory that Miracle Gro is bad to justify the 10 fold increase in price.

and I thought I was just being frugal!

 

[Guest]

Hey stoner I wasn't sure if that statement was true or not , but I guess I shouldn't beleive everything I read.

Pipeline I was talking about the liquid ferts that you add during growth not soil amendments. It just seems through my experience that the organic ferts are always deficient in something ( phosporous, Potassium or Nitrgen). MG is just a lot easier to use. I am still learning how to use the organics not an easy transition for me.

Captain skunk sorry I was referring to you in my last post not captain jack.

Thanks for the tips and advice guys keep them coming
GCG

 

[dmcheatw]

Thanks for the discussion on MG because i also was under the impression it sucks, but what you have said makes sense.

I also agree that chemical ferts cannot have a "chemical taste" because plants absorb N, P, K, Mg, Iron.... these are all elements!!! to me that has always been proof, it don't matter what the source is all that the plant takes up are elements and a couple select molecules (H2O)

Bascially I like the chemical fert Idea becasue manuer fertalizer comes in 50lb bags and that is a lot of work to transport and dig up and then get rid of the soil you displaced. At the same time I'm not sure if i want a chemical fert you mix into water because of the necessity of repeating the application.

In your setup, stoner, once you start to use your MG how often do u re-apply it? every water? and have you every tried any type of solid or time release chemical fertalizer? anybody you know?

 

[Stoner133]

I have used a lot of different fertilizers, including the time release granules and soluble granular as a top dressing. That includes organics based on compost.

What I like best is the fine control I get by dilution of the full strength mixture. My seedling plant get 12% dilution at 3 weeks or so, about they time they loose their first round leaves. They get a fresh application with each watering.

At 8 weeks, I have bumped them up to 50% and let them go two weeks between applications as suggested on the package.

By the time they are 12 weeks, they can handle the full strength mixture applied every two weeks through flowering.

When I see harvest is getting close, I use only water for a couple of weeks. I don't know if this really helps, but the plants don't appear to suffer for the treatment.

 

[dmcheatw]

Okay one last question and I'll try and stop bugging you

I have some vigoro (granular) tomato and vegtable fertalizer i got from Home Depot, 12-10-5, complete with all micronutrients, claims to begin fertilization in 72 hours and then slowly release it over 3 months. I was thinking of using this with lime and vermiculite and a little perlite for my mix, for a number of reasons, primarily b/c these are what i already own. The package has doses for transplants under the larger category of "new plants" and reccommends a dose of 1/4 cup per 5sq ft, under the category "established plants" it says 1/5th a cup per 5sq ft for established herbs and a 1/4th cup for 5sq feet around a large tomato plant.

I know you may not have experience with this particular fert, and ur answer can only be a rough guess, but If u were me and u wanted to mix this fert into your loamy soil and refill the whole, which is 1.5x1.5x1.5 cubic feet in size, how much of this fert would u mix in? i was thinking maybr just 1/8th a cup but i'm not sure and scared that i'll add too much, burn them, and not be able to help them short of another transplant to fresh soil.

gotta run and thx in advance

 

[Captain Skunk]

dmcheatw, I've used vigoro in the past. I never had any problems with it but, I did use less than the recommended dosage listed on the package. The vigoro relies on ground moisture and rain to distribute the nutes to the roots

I suggest you follow the recommendation of using it on the soil surface as a top dressing instead of mixing itno the soil.

I would consider an established plant, one that has been vegged for eight weeks or better. Seedlings are very nute sensitive, you don't want to make the soil to hot.

Less is always safer, and you can add more later in the season as your plants respond.

You're going to visit them a few times during the grow, you might as well feed them during those visits.

good luck

 

[Stoner133]

Good call Capt', I agree it better to start light and add as needed through the season.

I have not used this product, but I have tried a similar product made by Miracle Gro, the time release granules. The application directions are similar because they both recommend it as a top dressing.

When it rains or if I were watering from the top, that dilutes and transports the fertilizer to the root zone. That wasn't practical, because the plants were close enough to the water table to put down roots and seldom got any water from above.

When I recovered them, they were in a poor state for lack of moisture and had lost most of their leaves. Couldn't determine how effective the granular fertilizer was because they were also supplemented with soluble fertilizer.

 

[dmcheatw]

capt S, thanks for addressing the question, that makes sense and i like ur defintion of established plants.

 

[ND 2]

Hey guys...I use Musky fish ferts when I start things out..then I go to Plant Prod 20-20-20 or MG if I find it first..I keep it simple..I use sheep shit tea and some kelp meal and hit them will 10-30-10 in the fall for two waterings and then straight water..works for me...stay safe..

ND

 

[Guest]

Stoner133: Found this comment "elsewhere" and thought it applied well enough here...

Quote:
Bubblebush
DWC SCROGGER
I remember my first guerrella grow. Thin mountain soil and miracle grow, and we still pulled 10lbs.
BB
End Quote:

The "secret" might be out my friend

Be safe and be well
Bsdwolf

 

[Stoner133]

Good find 'wolf.

When it comes to mountain soil, you have to remember mountains are vertical and water does not stop long enough to produce soil. What you get is wind borne dust and decayed vegetation from previous generations of plants.

Ten pounds? Sure, as long as you have 50 plants and enough water to see them through.

'dude, your feeding them just right and they are loving it.

 

[Captain Skunk]

...'dude, your feeding them just right and they are loving it.

That's what I like about growing some of the same strains year after year.

Getting your feeding schedules and percentages dialed in for a particular plant, and they seem to grow all by themselves with little effort.

Dudes a perfect example of that scenario. Put them out, visit once or twice, and then reap the rewards!

enjoy

 

[Stoner133]

The LUI and Derailed Blues basking in the overcast light. Watering today and a full dose feeding for the larger plants, the smaller ones are still getting the half strength feeding.





Derailed Blues with some root space to grow into.




LUI f2 generation seedling.

 

[Captain Skunk]

Wow stoner, what a difference a couple of weeks makes, the little ones look great, and the revegged plants look fantastic!

Great job!