sterile females are the future!

[romanoweed]

Are there any real scientific papers studying inbreeding depresion on outdoor cannabis sativa be it hemp or marihuana with empirical evidence?

i read an article or paper where it said its prooven. at another place it said there isnt proove.

inbreeding depression theory has been known since long time.. so i rather be cautious and act like it may exist.

I mean, i can read just from people here over the years, that lines are declared depressed, happens not soo seldon , heard it predominantly from spanish sounding guys. do they know the truth? hell, i cant know.. is it something that i assume nobody likes to say, and therefore sounds kinda credible? probably.

 

[xet]

i think nev said it best here.... wish he was still around
.sentimentality is cool but progress is better.a well organized collective to put true cannabis in anyones hands who wants to grow it is the kryptonite for big pharma.

​

Jan 5, 2011

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My purpose with this thread is to help people with their breeding. IMO the best way to increase quality and diversity is to have lots of people breeding their own variants of the best lines available. We all have our own way of doing things. I'm not suggesting that my way is the only way. It's the end product that counts. One plant can change the world.

As far as I'm concerned, any tool that gets me where I want to go is a valid tool. I've found that intensive inbreeding followed by line breeding to be very effective. A study of pedigrees of other species where pedigrees are kept, also proves this to be the case. Many people choose the route of endless outcrossing and also have their successes.
All matings are 1:1 matings, the difference is that with deliberate 1:1 matings you know who the father is.
Selfing is a possible exception, but is also a valid tool for fixing a trait. I would have loved to selfed NL5 to try and exaggerate the resin production. It didn't work with that plant, but it still may work for others. Feminisation as a breeding strategy seems to work for some. Cabron showed us some heavy yielding plants, bred in this way. The only moral arguments I have against fems is that it may cause hermies, but if you've tested the mating and it doesn't, well it doesn't. The other argument is that it stops people from breeding without using specialised teks. You could fix that by including an extra packet of seeds from a M to F mating that would even act as a suitable mate for the best fems.
I'm about empowering people, IMO thats the best way to save the genepool.

All this talk about open pollinated landraces, is wasted on me, I haven't got any. How many are in the MN catalogue? Mostly the people waffling on about it don't have or sell any either. That and saving the genepool is mostly noble sounding horseshit. The genepool doesn't need saving. Cannabis will out last us. What needs saving is good genes. I thought the best way to do that was to spread the genetics of the best individual plants. I seem to have had some success.
If Chimera or Gitt want to explain how what they are doing is better, I'm willing to listen. Start with what you are growing and how it was bred. Then tell us how you are saving the genepool. If you don't want to do that, stop giving me a hard time.


N.

I am all for kryptonite to big pharma and that is a really cool Neville post thank you for finding and sharing that.

Is not about nobility more than it is about the premise of corporations and big pharma slowly removing seeds from circulation and reg seeds disappearing off the face of the planet.

 

[funkyhorse]

i read an article or paper where it said its prooven. at another place it said there isnt proove.

inbreeding depression theory has been known since long time.. so i rather be cautious and act like it may exist.

I mean, i can read just from people here over the years, that lines are declared depressed, happens not soo seldon , heard it predominantly from spanish sounding guys. do they know the truth? hell, i cant know.. is it something that i assume nobody likes to say, and therefore sounds kinda credible? probably.

In Spain they use a lot the word endogamy and in some cases they received genetics like this but for some other genetics my thinking is it is done on purpose
The problem is they feel their work is "copied". Their thinking is like little Monsantos
With Nevil and Sam same thing
Because they are afraid of these copying and stealing of genetics going on since the start of the canna seed business until today is that top breeders look for ways to have degraded progeny from their stock. They are not preservationists and they care that you need to buy more seed if you didnt keep the plants in cut form. Progeny seems to be degraded on purpose and they seem to breed with that intention

Breeding is focused on sex and/or productivity. There is a lot of sexual pressure on the strains. It certainly dont help with vigour it seems and clearly it does not help with quality and potency
The only way you can keep these endogamy strains is in cut form.

You need to understand that the most prestigious names of the canna world of the 21st century were the criminals of the 20th century and their thinking is still as outlaw people as they grew up stealing and being criminals, so theft and changing names without recognizing real origins is rampant in this breeding world. You get to hear this is going on from even the most prestigious people
It obviously all this leads to inbreeding depression.
Pure lines are not shared be it for money or for free because of the rampant theft so the weed available commercially is mediocre at best unless you got lucky and sourced something privately

 

[romanoweed]

Offtopic post, so skip.

who knows..

I always assumed that it would be hella difficult for me to find out: its like this, its like that.
So i spent my energy in finding things that very different persons with very differnt backgrounds generally say.

And also things that i atleast can feel sound right.

When i outcross two strains i am quiet shure that i feel an improovement compared to smoking the Strains individually.
I also feel that plants look good, or better when outcrossed. And that is even if i aim on good strains.

From Fruit breeders, they inbreed line A till its close to unfertile.. Then they inbreed line B till its almost infgertile..
Then they always as a basic rule cross it out to unrelated.. Sudenly it becomes healthyer.. veryy suddenly..
Ive seen that in Biologists videos.. Ive seen and heard enough explonations why this all is.. And everything is and remains possible because i would have to spend a live on really understanding it i assume. So, i stick to a slight assumtion, i think there might be inbreeding depression, why not? if i imagne paradise, then i imagine not a species consisting of a male and a female.. their bodys would signal "danger" . because it is..
if one dies suddenly before reproducing... theyre not in the best position for further survival. Its inherently dangerous. And i can imagine the bodies would signal: sleep with the far related guy, i can already imagine the body signalling this, cause the far related guy can live in other Climate (assumeing we speak of plants). kindof like this.. i think nature doesent have plans , or inheritance planned for species that live on with 2 individuals.
So the bodies of those Species automatically crave for further related Partners, and further evolution would "engrave" these sucessful strategys to rather recieve pollen from further related Partners. Possibly.. There might be also opposed strategys to just selfpollinate.. but why not bouth strategys together in one Species? Just hypothizing. But i guess a homogenous species would die very easily, depending wich species ..

I know i only reson like all that scientist reason. So, stay all openmided!