sterile females are the future!

[led05]

id argue the opposite while monsanto is obessesd with cornering the market by learning how the plant works and not sharing in order to leverage the market. but the kryptonite for this is an open source tutorial or co op who gives the star sterile phenos out either at cost or a small mark up would drastically fuck monsanto types over.
in any big vs little struggle the means of production are all that matter. a situation where less people need to rely on big corps for trees eventually makes them irrelevant. with a sterile female you can determine an exact protocol for growing it and make it nearly impossible for homegrower to fail. nutrient levels, temp, humidity can all be controlled and fine tuned when working with monocrop. however, a females will to reproduce for survival can be unpredictable and the bannana is a doomsday device for your tent.
and the other factor to think about is the amount of diversity that has been lost in the name of sexual stability. monoceious is the ancestral form so pulling all of them out of a population also trashes important basal genes. males which throw pistils have a high ethylene count which is a trait that is desirable to pass on to female progeny. by only using stable males and females we paint ourselves into a corner. secondary metabolites takek a huge hit during domestication running semi feral and selecting the best females is a quick route to great lines and not worrying about firm sexual stability you can concentrate on what you really want- unique terps cannabinoids and favorable growing habits for your space. along with yield and flower time

a post I made years ago elsewhere on related subjects

• Hermaphrodite: only hermie plants (this means staminate + pistillate flowers at the same bract.
• Monoecious: only monoecious plants (this means staminate + pistillate flowers within the same plant.
• Dioecious: only dioecious plants (this means either staminate or pistillate plants, but firm sex regardless).
• Gynodioecious: both firm females + hermies.
• Androdioecious: both firm males + hermies.

""Most flowering plants are hermaphroditic, and unisexual individuals (dioecious) have evolved from hermaphroditic ancestors many times (Renner, 2014). Trioecy is an uncommon sexual system in which hermaphrodites, females, and males coexist in some species. Trioecy occurs during the evolutionary transition from hermaphroditism to dioecy (Charlesworth and Charlesworth, 1978, Ross, 1982, Spigler and Ashman, 2012). Trioecy is a stable evolutionary stage under pollen limitation of female seed production because pollen limitation reduces the fitness of females but not self-fertile hermaphrodites, counteracting the seed fertility advantage of females (Maurice and Fleming, 1995). "

CONTD.......

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468265919300137

 

[acespicoli]

This year two things have come to the fore front of my mind as things to be cautious of:

1. Female cannabis plant that is sterile and does not produce seed in an entire field for seeded females
2. Female cannabis plant that is nearly impossible to reverse chemically or thru stress to produce seeds

My question is this, does the above instances provide you a way to reproduce a sterile female? YES
Also is there a way to breed with the above material? YES

Triploid watermelon
Seedless watermelons are triploid (3X) which causes them to be sterile, or seedless.
The triploid seeds are created by crossing a normal diploid (2X) melon as the pollinator with a tetraploid (4X) parent.
Each parent contributes half its respective chromosomes, 1X from one parent and 2X from the other.

"triploid" apple tree is
one which has three chromosomes rather than the normal two
and they should be treated as if they are self-sterile.
This means that they need another suitable variety nearby to pollinate them.

Would you want the triploid trait to spread across wild populations ???
if you will use a rare novelty as a clone no problem? NANNERS

Interesting thread. I was actually wondering about sterile plants lately, because I pollinated a couple of moms a few weeks back, and while one of them is full of seeds, the other only seems to have a few. Maybe 200 vs 20 or something like that.
View attachment 18752305

The one on the left is a homemade og kush cross by a friend. The one on the right is maple leaf. They are both in 2L pots and flowering under a 50w led. They were pollinated by the same Lebanese male, at the same time.

Sterile plants are news to me lol, but of course if animals and people can be sterile, why not plants as well. Maybe they "identify" as asexual? You know how kids are nowadays. Next thing you know there will be gender fluid plants as well xD

as @revegeta666 stated "Maybe 200 vs 20"

Whats the danger if a wild population begins to exhibit infertility when these genetics escape ?
There are already triploids in wild cannabis fields (in very small numbers) would you want to see a entire field of mutants?


The answer is yes we can select for female "sterile" plants, the other question of greater importance and potential peril is should we?
"sterile" what is possible further generations down the line if by chance the "sterile" line does make semi sterile pollen on a nanner?
Maybe they find it in a bag seed then its out...what IF it spreads like OG? Pollen chucked to everything everywhere

Trying to find heirloom male/female OP open pollinated seed lines is becoming more difficult daily

https://www.votehemp.com/PDF/Small2003JIH.pdf

Weighing the risk of cannabis cross-pollination

Industrial hemp and marijuana growers must work together to ensure a bright future for all sectors of the budding cannabis industry.

www.canr.msu.edu

Humboldt County "Genetic Contamination Prevention Ordinance" GMO Ban Initiative, Measure P (November 2014)

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

Production of Tetraploid and Triploid Hemp​

Date: 18 Sep 2020
Abstract https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/55/10/article-p1703.xml
To maximize yield, cannabidiol (CBD) hemp producers prefer female plants, and this is accomplished by using expensive feminized seed, vegetatively propagated female clones, or by removing male plants from dioecious seed lots. Hemp pollen drifts long distances on wind, and pollination of females reduces CBD content. Induction of triploidy is a common strategy used by plant breeders to produce sterile cultivars of agricultural crops. Triploid (3n) hemp, with three sets of chromosomes, was developed by crossing naturally diploid (2n) hemp with tetraploid (4n) hemp. Tetraploid plants used to create triploids were produced using pregerminated seeds and the mitotic spindle inhibitor colchicine. Seedlings from seeds of ‘Abacas’ × [(‘Otto2’ × ‘BaOx’) × (‘BaOx’ × ‘Colorado Cherry’)] treated with 0.05% colchicine or 0.02% colchicine for 12 hours and longer were significantly shorter than controls and ≤1 cm tall at 10 days after sowing. Surviving seedlings exhibited thickened cotyledons and hypocotyls, which indicated a potential change in ploidy. Tetraploid induction ranged from 26% to 64% for pregerminated seeds of five different hemp cultivars (Abacus × Wife, Cherry Wine, Mountain Mango, Wife, and Youngsim10) treated with 0.05% colchicine for 12 hours. Tetraploids had nearly twice the DNA content as diploids according to flow cytometric analysis. Tetraploid ‘Wife’ had larger stomates and reduced stomatal density compared with diploid ‘Wife’. Four triploid ‘Wife’ genotypes produced from crossing tetraploid ‘Wife’ with diploid ‘Wife’ were acclimated to greenhouse conditions after embryo rescue. DNA content and stomate size of triploid ‘Wife’ was intermediate between the parents. This is the first report of triploid plants of hemp. Future research will evaluate the sterility of triploid hemp.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


So was the anomaly naturally occurring or synthesized ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali
Kali , is a Hindu goddess who is considered to be the goddess of ultimate power, time, destruction and change.

Rama - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rama is said to have been born to Kaushalya and Dasharatha in Ayodhya, the ruler of the Kingdom of Kosala. His siblings included Lakshmana, Bharata, and Shatrughna. He married Sita. Though born in a royal family, their life is described in the Hindu texts as one challenged by unexpected changes such as an exile into impoverished and difficult circumstances, ethical questions and moral dilemmas

Historic recurrence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Cerathule]

"sterile" what is possible further generations down the line if by chance the "sterile" line does make semi sterile pollen on a nanner?

these triploid-genotypes shouldn't produce pollen to begin with because there's a stage within meiosis that fails.
not sure what a semi-sterile pollen is, though...

 

[Rembetis]

The Nursery industry switched to tissue culture long ago. Why not adapt to the times? Cheaper, quicker and a lot less shit to deal with than what you guys are talking about. Easier than clones. You have a top female with killer traits? How many million you want and on what day do you want them delivered?

 

[Piff_cat]

It's been a few years(decades) since chemistry and cellular classes, so have a tough time processing some of this. Yet, very interesting.

I seem to be drawn to ctrip, not just for the flavors...it seems to be a bit better with the fibromyalgia symptoms than many other types. So, am delving into the chocolate thai to see if there is 'more' of whatever it is that i'm drawn to.

Thought that i would add that this particular line of ctrip seems to produce albinos, quite often. Cute little things that i would love to see make it to maturity, but once it uses up the energy that was in the seed, it cannot grow. Not able to do photosynthesis.

here is a cool graphic from the paper which includes chocolope. a hidden gem it contains landrace cho thai(choc trip is choc thai x indica) and also nev 69 male progenitors(cannalope haze). these terpenes lilsted in the graphic show clusters of terpenes among the genomes of tested cultivars whose presence account for the biggest discriminate differences between cultivars.
so alpha bisabolol primarily a trace quantity, while a select group of cultivars produce large amounts of bisabolol.
bisabolol and santalene are fascinating terpenes which show an evolutionary link between sandlewood and cannabis. terpene synthase enzymes are grouped by the products they create either monoterpene or sequiterpenes. except in sandlewood, the sequiterpene bisabolol synthase codes for an enzyme normally only creating monoterpenes. this is a big difference because monoterpenes are more volatile and also limited in their products. however sequiterpenes while less volatile are much stronger and pungent. they cyclize allowing diverse products which all start off with same precursor(fpp). but santalene takes it a step further by modifying bisabolol with a cytochrome 450 enzymes to create specific specialized products.
when qued by heavy metal contact, a cytochrome450 enzyme will modify the bisabolol turning it into santalene. the fact that some cannabis, including chocolope, cant create santalene is a big time asset for those creating incense lines especially haze.

 

[grayeyes]

piff, if you want sterile then only use feminized seeds. No males anywhere around.

 

[Piff_cat]

found an example of seedless triploid cbd line sour suver haze. nearly 3 percent terpenes and 20 percent cbd decarbed. simple selection from diploid x tetraploid population. first identify the sterile females, next keep your favorite for a mother. i like their style

Indoor Sour Suver Haze (Triploid,

Introducing the next generation of genetics and breeding: Triploids, otherwise known as "Seedless" varieties. Sour Suver Haze is a classic high CBD variety, grown hydroponically indoors. However, this is no ordinary Sour Suver Haze, the new Triploid "Seedless" Sour Suver Haze genetics released...

hemphopfl.com

 

[acespicoli]

Been eating seeded and seedless watermelons all summer, the seedless watermelon is preferable
Much easier to eat, very good flavor, and in the USA no wild indigenous populations im aware of
Moral of the story, dont let anyone stop you @Piff_cat from your dreams, be responsible

If you grow some triploid mj plants post them here first

 

[Cerathule]

And then it turns out the seeds of fruits are usually highly nutritious - some became superfoods

 

[troutman]

I'm not worried for myself. I only grow and make regular seeds.
I've never grown feminized or chicks with dicks seeds and never will.

MonSamTo seeds.

 

[revegeta666]

I'm not worried for myself. I only grow and make regular seeds.
I've never grown feminized or chicks with dicks seeds and never will.

MonSamTo seeds.

 

[Nannymouse]

@grayeyes, if a female goes nanners, the whole field could be seeded, if using 'just females'. "just females" are not sterile just because a male is not there. If females are all sterile, a male in the field wouldn't matter, because non of the females would produce seed.

 

[led05]

Been eating seeded and seedless watermelons all summer, the seedless watermelon is preferable
Much easier to eat, very good flavor, and in the USA no wild indigenous populations im aware of
Moral of the story, dont let anyone stop you @Piff_cat from your dreams, be responsible

If you grow some triploid mj plants post them here first

which one do you pull seeds from for next years plantings..... ?

This plays out hundreds of times here every year, But I tend to agree with you mostly, just enjoy playing the devils advocate…. Everyone’s gotta do their thing, be happy doing so…. But also of course respect the beauty of others too; when deserved

 

[acespicoli]

which one do you pull seeds from for next years plantings..... ?

This plays out hundreds of times here every year, But I tend to agree with you mostly, just enjoy playing the devils advocate…. Everyone’s gotta do their thing, be happy doing so…. But also of course respect the beauty of others too; when deserved

View attachment 18754267

View attachment 18754268

Much respect, I admire your gardens @led05
Both nutritional and medicinal

I grew this year seeded - art combes red seeded ancient watermelon,

wilson, blacktail mountain, strawberry, golden midget

Kajari = honey dew type melon, was interesting

Prescott Fond Blanc = cantaloupe type very aromatic

Next year:

This is a small but delicious melon from Rajasthan, India. The name Madhu Ras means honey melon, an appropriate name for such a sweet fruit. These melons thrive in the hot and dry conditions of western India, and they will grow in similar conditions in the U.S. One of our favorites in trials, the flesh is soft and silky with a classic muskmelon taste. This is a rare find brought to us from Botanical Explorer Joseph Simcox, who found this special heirloom at a market in Delhi, India.

---

Most productive fruits this year (best flavor, still sampling...)
art combes red seeded ancient watermelon,
wilson,
blacktail mountain

You recommend any as being above par? Feel free to PM id like to talk garden anytime
Peppers ? Marconi, paprika, trinidad scorpion moruga (pasilla, chipolte, been buying these, the pasillas are not finishing in time working on a early version, tried several jalapeno not found a favorite yet)

Many others seed savers exchange, I save non GMO OP seeds

Herbs — Genesis 2-29:
“And God said, behold I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth,
and every tree, which is the fruit of the tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.”


Seedless watermelon Kosher ?

But I regress please carry on @Piff_cat
Philosophy
a series of statements in which a logical procedure is continually reapplied to its own result without approaching a useful conclusion (e.g. defining something in terms of itself).

 

[grayeyes]

Nanny, if you use feminized seeds there are not going to be nanners.

 

[grayeyes]

If you only grow sterile seeds then you don't have the chance to take the best of the strain and improve on it. A while ago, I took a very well known strain and discovered something different that even the guy that originated the strain didn't see. I took and bred these "aberrant" seed strain (male and female) into something no one else has ever done. Even the guy that has grown this strain for 14 generations tells me I have something different.

Although I could sell it to a seed company I don't think I am going to do that. Although the strain is internationally famous only two seed sellers have the genes that I know of. Gypsy is one.

Just goes to show you that sterile is not the way.

 

[Nannymouse]

Of course sterile is not the way IF you are planning more breeding projects. The sterile sunflower people are not interested in further breeding, nor would sterile Cannabis people. If a neighbor was going to put in a field of Cannabis, and if he asked me which i would prefer, fem seed or sterile seed, i would definitely pick the sterile seed for him to plant.

Yes, nanners can happen on fems, probably a hundred people on this forum could attest to that.

 

[grayeyes]

So you are saying the collodial silver doesn't really work? On what basis?

 

[zaprjaques]

@grayeyes it does work but it does not eliminate intersex traits.

 

[Nannymouse]

If you use CS on a female, her feminized offspring can still make seed if pollen is sprinkled on them. They can also make pollen, if stressed or 'forced' with silvers, or you would not find S2's, S3's, etc.
So, fem'd gals are not sterile.

Sterile female is one that will not produce seed. No matter what. She is the end of her line, and of what use is that? Everything that a female is used for, other than making seed.

I don't know if a sterile female can produce pollen, but if it does, it wouldn't matter to the sterile females around her, as they cannot make seed. I would think that they cannot make pollen, either, but don't know for a fact on that.