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sterile females are the future!

Piff_cat

Well-known member
growing cannabis inside, especially sativa landraces is a labor of love. it can be very frustrating especially to newbies hoping to supply their own stash. however hermies and seeds can discourage new growers invariably they either quit or adapt and learn. a big part of the lack in true sativa effect cannabis is due to the difficulty growing inside and the lack of climate to grow them outside. unless your breeding, a seeded crop is your worst nightmare.
even tho most people grow from clones seed plants ive found to be far superior in growth but unpredictable sexual stability. until a full run is done with the females, the stability is a complete mystery. only takes a couple bannanas to seed the whole op. we even see this outside with pollen drift from cbd hemp ruining cannabis crops. there is a very simple solution- create sterile lines! no seeds or pollinated pistils. this would revolutionize home growing further shifting the paradigm away from the corporate swine back to the passionate potheads. how to accomplish this?

example from landracemafia-`which is naturally occuring
1662091948763.png

how could this be accomplished? several methods but all involve chromosome mutations/number change. we are looking for females which cannot be pollinated so the only foolproof selection is to use the 3 methods and handpick females which are sterile but also have improved traits due to gene dosage changes affecting quantative traits.
option 1- hunt landraces like landrace mafia and maintain by clone- most time consuming, limited trait improvement. however it is the least complicated and shortest process

2. triploids- this method is used in the fruit industry like watermelon. accomplished by crossing a diploid plant to tetraploid. the progeny will be mostly triploid(2 +4=6/2=3) another way to produce a triploid is using endosperm rescue which is naturally triploid. endosperm is what the seed uses for nourishment before germinaton. since the tissue is naturally triploid, rescuing it from a nearly ripe seed is a short process with predictable triploid outcome but very technically advanced.

3. aneuploid swarm- best inhanced trait results, most diversity previously successful in various haze lines. aneuploidity is a chromosome mutation where the plant has extra chromosomes but not a full set.
for example a plant could have 22 chromosomes 1 copy each of 20 and then an extra copy of 2 and 4. this will throw off the genes balance leading to extreme phenotypes not observed in either parent. the traits changed will be specific to the quantative traits located on 2 and 4. these are called karyotypes which describe how many chromosomes, which are extra and the associated morphology/secondary metabolite phenotypes
to create aneuploids you have 2 options- self seed a triploid or cross a diploid to a triploid. these changes in chromosome count are caused by the complicated and difficult meiosis that triploids go thru. since there are 3 sets of chromosomes but only 2 poles alot of unequal distribution occurs. the results of these triploid crosses is called a hybrid aneuploid swarm and it will contain diploids, triploids, aneuploids of varying karyotype and even some tetraploids. this type of mutation also occurs naturally in hybrid zones where several ploidities are present.


anybody run into a sterile female before?? closest production clone now would be mac1 which is a triploid. this comes from the colombian "miracle" parent. it most likely went thru chromosome doubling due to unreduced gametes in the challenging enviorment or spontaneous doubling due to elements of challenging enviorment(i think all the colombian plants died but this one hence the "miracle" while mac1 is not completly sterile it has difficulty being pollinated and performing reversals.
4. mutated pollen. same idea to change chromosome arrangement but a different tactic. less predictable then karyotypes but possibly more diverse. radiating the donor pollen will cause deletions, additions and even broken chromosomes. however this would probly be the highest rate of sterile females due to the massive damage caused to pollen by radiation. also worth mentioning that aneuplooid swarm progeny can also throw out different ploidity pollen grains visibly different sizes.
 

goingrey

Well-known member
Not just the future, already the present:


Made with method "2":

 

willydread

Dread & Alive
Veteran
I have found only once in my life a sterile male, never females, however I am not an ideal customer for these things ... and honestly it seems to me a great waste of time and ethics, if you want to cultivate sensimilla commercially the methods already exist ; as for the "landraces", I know that sexual stability is a big problem, but it's part of the game ....
 

Piff_cat

Well-known member
maybe i didnt explain it the best way...
you find a female who cant get pregnant then you use her as you would any other clone only. except now no matter what happens in flower your guarenteed sensimilla. you could grow any tropical sativa unstable herm prone plant you want, because none of the plants in the room can be pollinized..
its not protecting against herms, its making herms irrelevant and increasing success rates exponentially. i cant imagine anyone wants a herm to seed their crop this changes that whole dynamic. theres no advantage of having a female who can create seeds while being used for bud production.
you could run many different types of thai sativa types right next to your hybrid cash croppers. if the polyploid method of creation isnt your cup of tea, then you could hunt and find a "natural" one like landracemafia did.
 

Taima-da

Well-known member
Sterile=future seems like an oxymoron.

I get why you'd do this but, not only does this practice remove autonomy from the grower but assumes that sensi is the"best".

Some of the seeded stuff I've encountered has been great by any measure and allows the grower to keep and work a genetic into the future.

Lines from the past have done what people have desired for millennia, so it seems like a solution for a non existent problem, and a neat marketing trick.
 

revegeta666

Not ICMag Donor
Interesting thread. I was actually wondering about sterile plants lately, because I pollinated a couple of moms a few weeks back, and while one of them is full of seeds, the other only seems to have a few. Maybe 200 vs 20 or something like that.
IMG_20220903_125929.jpg


The one on the left is a homemade og kush cross by a friend. The one on the right is maple leaf. They are both in 2L pots and flowering under a 50w led. They were pollinated by the same Lebanese male, at the same time.

Sterile plants are news to me lol, but of course if animals and people can be sterile, why not plants as well. Maybe they "identify" as asexual? You know how kids are nowadays. Next thing you know there will be gender fluid plants as well xD
 

Nannymouse

Well-known member
I did have a female Chocolate Trip female that seemed to refuse to be pollinated. She was with the male for a good long while, too, so not a timing thing. Another female next to her was full of seed.

The ctrip gal did make 2 seeds, hundreds on the other gal. I was so mad at the ctrip, that i tossed her, thinking that for sure, i would get another female...but only got males from the remaining four seeds. The male pollen was used on the 'remaining seed female', and no issues with that, from then on, continued to mate back to the ctrip boys.
 

acespicoli

Well-known member
Sounds very similar to Monsanto & seeds of destruction,
1662427552817.png
1662427939892.png




http://archive. pov.org/foodinc/video/video-foodinc-trailer/
1662428435782.png

If you have not seen this its in order if you made it here

Storyline​


The current method of raw food production is largely a response to the growth of the fast food industry since the 1950s. The production of food overall has more drastically changed since that time than the several thousand years prior. Controlled primarily by a handful of multinational corporations, the global food production business - with an emphasis on the business - has as its unwritten goals production of large quantities of food at low direct inputs (most often subsidized) resulting in enormous profits, which in turn results in greater control of the global supply of food sources within these few companies. Health and safety (of the food itself, of the animals produced themselves, of the workers on the assembly lines, and of the consumers actually eating the food) are often overlooked by the companies, and are often overlooked by government in an effort to provide cheap food regardless of these negative consequences. Many of the changes are based on advancements in science and technology, but often have negative side effects.The products made have been shown in several studies to enlarge male sexual organs and increase male breast size. The answer that the companies have come up with is to throw more science at the problems to bandage the issues but not the root causes. The global food supply may be in crisis with lack of biodiversity, but can be changed on the demand side of the equation. —Huggo


The seeds of contamination have already been passed around
Soon you may all have boobs and look like peter north, from smoking marijuana if you do not already
Makes me imagine the greed thats possible in this sector...can you? :canabis:
 
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led05

Chasing The Present
Sounds very similar to Monsanto & seeds of destruction,
View attachment 18753443 View attachment 18753445



http://archive. pov.org/foodinc/video/video-foodinc-trailer/
View attachment 18753451
If you have not seen this its in order if you made it here

Storyline​


The current method of raw food production is largely a response to the growth of the fast food industry since the 1950s. The production of food overall has more drastically changed since that time than the several thousand years prior. Controlled primarily by a handful of multinational corporations, the global food production business - with an emphasis on the business - has as its unwritten goals production of large quantities of food at low direct inputs (most often subsidized) resulting in enormous profits, which in turn results in greater control of the global supply of food sources within these few companies. Health and safety (of the food itself, of the animals produced themselves, of the workers on the assembly lines, and of the consumers actually eating the food) are often overlooked by the companies, and are often overlooked by government in an effort to provide cheap food regardless of these negative consequences. Many of the changes are based on advancements in science and technology, but often have negative side effects.The products made have been shown in several studies to enlarge male sexual organs and increase male breast size. The answer that the companies have come up with is to throw more science at the problems to bandage the issues but not the root causes. The global food supply may be in crisis with lack of biodiversity, but can be changed on the demand side of the equation. —Huggo


The seeds of contamination have already been passed around
Makes me imagine the greed thats possible in this sector...can you? :canabis:
18 minutes late - I was just gonna say sounds like, already is Monsanto’s wet dream…. :tiphat:
 

Piff_cat

Well-known member
I did have a female Chocolate Trip female that seemed to refuse to be pollinated. She was with the male for a good long while, too, so not a timing thing. Another female next to her was full of seed.

The ctrip gal did make 2 seeds, hundreds on the other gal. I was so mad at the ctrip, that i tossed her, thinking that for sure, i would get another female...but only got males from the remaining four seeds. The male pollen was used on the 'remaining seed female', and no issues with that, from then on, continued to mate back to the ctrip boys.
thats very cool info thanks. chocolate trip is actually a strain with a high degree of sequiterpene synthases not found in typical plants. the paper actually used chocolope but pretty close. some special terpenes in their alot of oxygenated ones normally found in chinese medical plants especially rhododendron and agarwood. hotspots for aneuploid/sterile are found in colombia, thailand/vietnam cambodia. most likely due to unreduced gametes caused by enviormental stress like high temp/humidity. process called nondisjunction that ends with gametes that are 2n and then pollinated. key to sterility is triploid meiosis. its inherently messy due to 2 poles but 3 sets to divide . results in a hybrid swarm- triploid, diploid, aneuploid even tetraploid. this occurs in nature when a hybrid zone exists with tetra on one side and diploid on the other. intersection usually f1s with varying ploidity. pheno hunter dream. im interested in the difference between sterile where pistils never pollinate and when they are pollinated but doesnt lead to any production of seeds

1662429511445.png

1662429534162.png
1662429565809.png
 

Piff_cat

Well-known member
18 minutes late - I was just gonna say sounds like, already is Monsanto’s wet dream…. :tiphat:
id argue the opposite while monsanto is obessesd with cornering the market by learning how the plant works and not sharing in order to leverage the market. but the kryptonite for this is an open source tutorial or co op who gives the star sterile phenos out either at cost or a small mark up would drastically fuck monsanto types over.
in any big vs little struggle the means of production are all that matter. a situation where less people need to rely on big corps for trees eventually makes them irrelevant. with a sterile female you can determine an exact protocol for growing it and make it nearly impossible for homegrower to fail. nutrient levels, temp, humidity can all be controlled and fine tuned when working with monocrop. however, a females will to reproduce for survival can be unpredictable and the bannana is a doomsday device for your tent.
and the other factor to think about is the amount of diversity that has been lost in the name of sexual stability. monoceious is the ancestral form so pulling all of them out of a population also trashes important basal genes. males which throw pistils have a high ethylene count which is a trait that is desirable to pass on to female progeny. by only using stable males and females we paint ourselves into a corner. secondary metabolites takek a huge hit during domestication running semi feral and selecting the best females is a quick route to great lines and not worrying about firm sexual stability you can concentrate on what you really want- unique terps cannabinoids and favorable growing habits for your space. along with yield and flower time
 

Nannymouse

Well-known member
It's been a few years(decades) since chemistry and cellular classes, so have a tough time processing some of this. Yet, very interesting.

I seem to be drawn to ctrip, not just for the flavors...it seems to be a bit better with the fibromyalgia symptoms than many other types. So, am delving into the chocolate thai to see if there is 'more' of whatever it is that i'm drawn to.

Thought that i would add that this particular line of ctrip seems to produce albinos, quite often. Cute little things that i would love to see make it to maturity, but once it uses up the energy that was in the seed, it cannot grow. Not able to do photosynthesis.
 

led05

Chasing The Present
id argue the opposite while monsanto is obessesd with cornering the market by learning how the plant works and not sharing in order to leverage the market. but the kryptonite for this is an open source tutorial or co op who gives the star sterile phenos out either at cost or a small mark up would drastically fuck monsanto types over.
in any big vs little struggle the means of production are all that matter. a situation where less people need to rely on big corps for trees eventually makes them irrelevant. with a sterile female you can determine an exact protocol for growing it and make it nearly impossible for homegrower to fail. nutrient levels, temp, humidity can all be controlled and fine tuned when working with monocrop. however, a females will to reproduce for survival can be unpredictable and the bannana is a doomsday device for your tent.
and the other factor to think about is the amount of diversity that has been lost in the name of sexual stability. monoceious is the ancestral form so pulling all of them out of a population also trashes important basal genes. males which throw pistils have a high ethylene count which is a trait that is desirable to pass on to female progeny. by only using stable males and females we paint ourselves into a corner. secondary metabolites takek a huge hit during domestication running semi feral and selecting the best females is a quick route to great lines and not worrying about firm sexual stability you can concentrate on what you really want- unique terps cannabinoids and favorable growing habits for your space. along with yield and flower time
Monocrop & Sterility - I’m a seed & species whore, I can’t get enough of either; both those words sound counterproductive to this tiny farmer of many species, one whom would rather make his own seeds vs buying them… I also crave the variety and ability to make new F1’s - to each their own as they say

PS: I grow a lot of SE Asian in-situ collected genetics; I’m not fussy about stability as I can’t be; I’m good with that as often the gems within herms are well worth the related efforts…
 
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Nannymouse

Well-known member
@led05, i agree. Had never paid for a seed in a couple of decades, and then decided i needed to try one of those chocolate thai packs. Almost every time that i've had the chance to grow...seeds are made.

That said, if the big farmers near me decided to grow Cannabis in huge fields, i guess that i would rather that they not produce any pollen.

I sort of look at it like the sunflowers. The cut flower people love the sterile sunflowers, it's all bloom and no seed...and it's not a problem for the sunflower seed people. i could be wrong, it happens.
 

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