Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[plantingplants]

Thanks for the suggestion- I want the consistency of clones this year for the yield half of the garden. I do have some seed I'm doing but that's for variety. Also don't have the space for too many reg seeds and its taken up by aog x's.

 

[oct]

@Cat: You are a great farmer. When I think of somebody who has mass amounts of classroom and field knowledge, it's you. But I wanted to ask about the soil amendment you made. You always preached how important testing is. You once told me that anything other than doing so is pointless and if you answered questions without one they'd be misguided. But then you created an all purpose amendment which is the opposite of a soil test and more of a shotgun approach. I dunno, just surprised me.

 

[slownickel]

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Well, thanks for the ads!

Why a soy vs fish? Any particular reasons?

Amino profile much different?

 

[Avenger]

You are welcome for the information.
here is an amino acid profile from a different lot/batch

 

[led05]

I have an organic rating. Can't use that stuff. Pulled it out of my mix even, as they had it in the original Liberty mix.



You cry about people not understanding your posts, and say they need to learn to read, then you post this incoherent nonsense. The life of Cat........ Maybe more tractor time is needed. I mean, you have to move those big 20 gallon pots around. Why don't you show us a proper soil result. Until then, you just be trollin.



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I like that P and K equal. Never though it would be exact but there it is. The K and Mg will be pushed down with the gypsum used in the mix, and the top dressing I will be doing. I think two points on K easy, and the MG will drop no problem, along with the left over sodium.

The cec....... SlowN is trying to get me to lower that. I have some soil I did add a good amount of top soil too, but I don't like it as much as my fluffy 30 cec soil. The organic matter with spectrum is new to me. 8-10% is what I seem to come in at. If this was logan, they would be coming in at 30%, so I guess I don't have that answer, but the more the better IME in pot. Running tests this year, but I couldn't pull the trigger on new soil that was heavy. Maybe next year.

Unfortunately, I can't just order up soil. I have organic ratings, and I honor them. Most compost is heavy with non-organics, most likely glyphosate. Can't have that shit showing up in my soil and failing my organic rating for the next 5 years. Getting quality organic soil is very hard to do in this area. I actually had to take the recipe at the local store, take stuff out and try to build it back up without knowing what % or volume of the materials they used.This took me 2 months, and around 500-1k in testing to figure this out. Hope others enjoy my hard work.

You mention B and Mn. I know the Mn needs to be raised, or at least the ratio to Fe. What about B? When I first saw the results my first thought was Bam, right where I want B. Plenty of room to fertilize but plenty to carry the high Ca as well. Your thoughts? Thanks for the break down, you da man.

Your fluffy soil with a CEC like that when saturated isn't going to be so fluffy anymore, maybe you guys don't have that issue out in the dry west, not very dry lately though ...


The Compost I mentioned is organic, it's not a manure thing etc, it's Sand, Top soil & Compost Blend, when you get that from a quarry or large soil screening type company that compost is normally a Hardwood Blend (at least around here) that's been decomposed (very good for Ca, damn Mg tags along) - Does compost technically have to be based off Manure or can it be many things, I honestly don't know..... ? If those hardwoods trees have Glyphosate in them then everything growing everywhere does, we're all fuked...


Call one of your local quarries or soil companies that deliver to the landscaping outfits, Nurseries etc, see what they got, ... I bet you can tweak anyone of the Grape mixes they use out there, lessen the sand %, more organic etc and you'd be well on your way, probably get 8-10 yard loads for around 300$-400$ delivered if they think you'll be getting them often or are in a location that's close / easy for them...


Too high an organic content normally means higher CEC, too much Mg, harder to fix things etc....


Slo and I are similar in that we like lower CEC, it gives the farmer more control, quicker...


I think you can push Micros a lot higher than most people realize, especially per the consensus in here, then again I think many people in here hold back quite a bit for whatever reasons...

 

[Heil Tweetler]

Well, thanks for the ads!

Why a soy vs fish? Any particular reasons?

Amino profile much different?

Nutrients of Fish Fertilizer

HomeNutrients of Fish Fertilizer
Nutrients Analysis of Neptune's Harvest Fish Fertilizer
Elements


Amino Acids % by Wt.


Nitrogen 2.23
Threonine 2.29
Phosphorous 4.35
Aspartic Acid 5.41
Potassium 0.30
Serine 2.74
Calcium 0.75
Proline 3.07
Sulfur 0.17
Glutamic Acid 8.03
Magnesium 0.04



Sodium 0.16
Glycine 6.22



Alaniae 4.15
Iron 26.0 ppm
Cystine 0.38
Manganese 3.0 ppm
Valine 2.17
Copper < 0.1 ppm
Methionine 1.81
Zinc 9.0 ppm



Boron 2.5 ppm
Isoleucine 1.60
Molybdenum < 0.1 ppm
Leucine 3.42
Aluminum 8.0 ppm
Phenylalanine 1.67
Lead < 1.0 ppm






Lysine 4.16


The topic of aminos came about because of concerns regasrding Fe content.

 

[Sokan]

Your fluffy soil with a CEC like that when saturated isn't going to be so fluffy anymore, maybe you guys don't have that issue out in the dry west, not very dry lately though ...


The Compost I mentioned is organic, it's not a manure thing etc, it's Sand, Top soil & Compost Blend, when you get that from a quarry or large soil screening type company that compost is normally a Hardwood Blend (at least around here) that's been decomposed (very good for Ca, damn Mg tags along) - Does compost technically have to be based off Manure or can it be many things, I honestly don't know..... ? If those hardwoods trees have Glyphosate in them then everything growing everywhere does, we're all fuked...

Glyphosate yeah, they spread that chelating agent eveywhere but for the compost have a peep https://youtu.be/BQz7F46nZCI
Compost can be made of anything, c/n and climatic cond of a pile determines speed....you make humus by adding minerals....coloids tye diverse the ingridients the better for microbes....or you make spelialized.compost..for mushrooms for example

 

[daddylonglegs]

DD-did you send your water to spectrum?

Someone asked where you get N without Fe. Cat answered I guess your fucked then and people are offended. Skins pretty thin around here.

Also just jumping to conclusions isn't gonna get you anywhere but with a little research. Thanks avenger

I did not , didn't even check to see if they did so .... my water softener company ( culligan) comes out and does a testing ... but I'd imagine spectrum would be better option...

If there is heavy content in water , by top dressing more gypsum when watering , would that neutralize the unwanted extras preventing too much buildup ?

 

[Space Case]

Not too shabby for these crazy numbers....certainly a little K and N deficient, but thats easy to get caught up on! I probably should of rinsed the soil a bit more before sending in this test...

 

[Space Case]

I will tell you what. Getting enough Ca into salt fed coco plants is a motherfucker. Step one you better wash some gypsum through there to drive k and Na off the cec sites. And supplying all of your N with CaNO3 don't get it done either...you end up with high NO3 problems before you satisfy Ca.

Actually trying a very fine grind of gypsum dihydrate in the fertigation now. We will see how that goes. Plus foliars of course.

And dropping k and mg to levels I would have never believed so as not to block Ca uptake

but on the path concentrate yield has doubled and thc production is up 30-40%

My coco based starter mix, I am adding amino-coated gypsum (for both Ca and N), a little bit of vermicompost, crushed lava rocks, and small amounts of vansil and bone meal. Its a great mix, and I can feed much less CaNO3, and stick to mostly sulfate feeds!

 

[led05]

Glyphosate yeah, they spread that chelating agent eveywhere but for the compost have a peep https://youtu.be/BQz7F46nZCI
Compost can be made of anything, c/n and climatic cond of a pile determines speed....you make humus by adding minerals....coloids tye diverse the ingridients the better for microbes....or you make spelialized.compost..for mushrooms for example

Humus makes itself naturally all over in bogs... anyhow, if the wood of hardwood forests which is where hardwood compost comes from is testing + for Glyphosate the point is everything growing everywhere has it, think about it, it would be an extremely bad thing, 100 year old hardwood trees testing positive, ouch... think super good quality natural wood chips broken down further...

Mushroom compost is a by product of mushroom growing, no?


I suck at sarcasm regarding the manure comment, in re reading it really bad, it didn't come across as I intended it......

to me good compost is a natural product and something I make myself and or acquire very cheaply from the source, not some place mixing up stuff out back but the actual company that owns the quarry, the woods or are harvesting the forests, peat bogs or whatever exists in your area etc... to the source before it gets fuked up... the quarries I've visited are just taking what Mother Nature gives them in chosen prime spots, this stuff is cheap and near always better and comes by the 10 wheeler minimum, they don't have time to tinker nor care too.


I was trying to tell hazy that more expensive, complex or animal based isn't always better, it's also not easy to get a quarry to deal with you direct unless your buying a lot or know people or both... if you can't, find a good local nursery and get a large order, they'll send you a truck direct from the quarry most likely, there's your in...


I personally hate most manures unless I know the farm, have walked it & tested the products.... even then, they vary too much for my liking most the time....


I also live in region w diverse & very nice soils, shitty weather, seems the two often go hand in hand ... Snow & rain makes nice soils, we get a shit ton of snow here and enough rain too

 

[led05]

Yea...... Reading comprehension is the problem here........

Douche

Guys want to play a fun game. Read what Cat says here, then watch what actually happens on his IG feed....... lol. Pallets of Black gold, piles of sulfates......Dare I say gypsum even?
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Tell us more about those winter runs you have started the last two years, and never finished......lol. Those boys pulling 4-5 a light did so in 10 degree weather. Tell us more about how you are the best, and everything you do is perfect.......As you sit there and poo poo on everything.

Edit: then the douche removes me from his IG. lol. Got too real for a second huh?

In 10 degree weather... it's long been my Pov that more continental cooler climates in GH will be a sweet spot for growing this plant in future when it all shakes out... you get good humidity, a large window of year w correct photoperiods and the lack of sun can easily be supplemented... also when it's fkin freezing out there, bugs don't like it either, go figure.... they love the GH but they don't keep coming, reduced insect pressure shouldn't be overlooked as a very key factor!

So were those 4-5 numbers in a GH with the low winter sun and DE 1000s?

I have a test GH I built outback that sits 3-4' below grade, that's what zone 5 drive you too.... two years ago lost a lot of perennials when it hit - 28, that isn't a zone 5 ... that is a fked up year for sure but unknown & uncommon variables gives us our dancing feet

 

[led05]

Not too shabby for these crazy numbers....certainly a little K and N deficient, but thats easy to get caught up on! I probably should of rinsed the soil a bit more before sending in this test...

I like you k number, maybe just a little higher, mg is what I like least.... so what angle to you guys think above plane is too much leaf praying, 10/15/20 degrees?

I know people mentioned praying earlier and it's bad, but did anyone ever say why?

I think the leaves telling us too much light or wrong spectrums or both, maybe also in part to certain mineral deficiency... LED lights are crazy how they fk w Ca, Mg especially for those w experience...

The room looks nice man

 

[jidoka]

With you on the leaves...flat to the lights except on the very newest leaf.

If you point the light meter perpendicular to the leaf you find out it is getting significantly less light than if it were flat to the light. A waster of photons

 

[led05]

With you on the leaves...flat to the lights except on the very newest leaf.

If you point the light meter perpendicular to the leaf you find out it is getting significantly less light than if it were flat to the light. A waster of photons

Of course it is and the leaf is telling you that , clearly....10% above plane my limit...

glad I see more coming around to lower k & mg numbers , referring to your quoted post above....I've been saying since I started posting in this thread mg & K are near always Way too high, said I like K at 3 or 4 and lots of push back. I also mentioned then about H being a player and people seemed perplexed, sounds like the norm now H might be the most important player effecting all else, just think of what happens alone w wet / dry cycles... .. now if only I could get more folks to listen to ph > 7,

Ca likes it up there ... wait, does a PH above 7 in healthy soil telling us something about Ca levels. Bet your ass it is... as long as Mg in check and K 4 or lower, cheers

 

[HillMizer]

Then you're fucked, in my opinion any way

You only have to follow me a little while to know I was fucked before I ever came up with that question. I ain't much of a scientist but I still manage to have time to get fucked.

 

[led05]

You only have to follow me a little while to know I was fucked before I ever came up with that question. I ain't much of a scientist but I still manage to have time to get fucked.

Mizer, I think your profile pic would supports this

 

[Sokan]

Mushroom compost is a by product of mushroom growing, no?

I also live in region w diverse & very nice soils, shitty weather, seems the two often go hand in hand ... Snow & rain makes nice soils, we get a shit ton of snow here and enough rain too

At least for agaricus bisporus you make compost for them to grow on...and then after the growth you have spent mushroom compost. Compost is very broad word
I feel you in terms of snow and rain )) and relatively short summers.

 

[Sokan]

Can I have an advice guys. I have 70$ budget for tests exl shipping. What should I pick.
I have done M3 of my messed up soil to know what I am dealing with

Sandy and gravel going deeper. Sample taken just below organic layer(not much of it)
What I have availabe for now is Granite flour 6t, old spent mushroom compost 9t and phosphogypsum 3t. more info on sms and gypsum I use

This is what I can afford for now for start regenerating the soil.
I started making beds of stuff I have and rototilled them. I am thinking of putting more compost + gypsum on top.
I live in boggy environment and recently my natural pond (grandpa made a dam 30yrs ago) leaked and I am left with that black treasure on edges (more aerated area) and then sludge some anaerbic spots have iron smell, more air more earthy smell. When high cec organic material gets dry, does it become rock hard?
I would really like to test whats in there, but I am also curious how did I improved with the base soil and which direction to go further. Thanks for your inputs.

 

[plantingplants]

Whoa. Thats cool.. I havent seen a really sandy sample yet. Where are you located?