Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[reppin2c]

Ya but mikey likes everything.

How about a gypsum slurry fertigation with solution grade?

 

[slownickel]

Ya but mikey likes everything.

How about a gypsum slurry fertigation with solution grade?

Mike does not like juice....

A slurry of a fine gypsum would work. I think applying it to the top of the soil as a dry would be easier. Keeping gypsum in suspension is not easy most folks have special equipment for that.

 

[BrainSellz]

Numbers that are real and correctly calculated, understood and that make sense, are the only real tools that we have to really dial it in.

It is very real and highly probable that when one really dials it in precisely, that we can go where few have gone before.

All these guys in Ca, Maui etc... with 80% Ca soils are not magicians. They can be nearly the worst grower in the world and they will still come up ahead, why?

A Ca rich soil is rich in microbiology, air space and allows air to get down deep into the soil. A big part of the reaction to Ca is that Mg and Na get pushed out. Sort of like musical chairs, someone has no where to sit and gets pushed out. Those wonder yields and quality come from a good soil. And of course there are guys that can push it as a result, no doubt. But put that grower in a 50% Ca soil and watch what happens. Suicide.

1 Meq will push out 1 Meq, so 1 Meq of Ca, will push out 1 meq of the weakest bonded, most like Na and then K. Mg is the bitch that won't leave and in many cases is the biggest job we have. She is a fat slut that can't get through the door. It takes a lot of flocculation of soil/medium to get her out. If you need Mg really, use sulpomag (0-0-22-18 Mg). It is a mineral and won't react like mag sulfate or mag nitrate. Keep her tied up in that mineral form.

Watch that video in the beginning of this thread again. Listen to the message over and over. Mg is your enemy, not your friend. She is pretty and talks a nice story, but at the end of the day, she stabs you in the back.

If you see a Mg problem, 99% of the time it is because K and Na are high or you don't have enough P. How do you figure that one out without an analysis? You can't. Much less dial it in.

Applying foliar Mg sulfate or nitrate works fantastic and you will often see a clear response. Mg is very mobile in the plant, so if you really need it, the leaves will send it down to the roots. DO NOT APPLY Mg to the soil. Took me more than 20 years to figure that out. Carey Reams and Doc Tiedjens all explain this is their books. Unfortunately when I was young and stupid, I dismissed Reams immediately. Tiedjens I didn't find til several years ago.

Tiedjens was applying dosages of calcium like Cateripillar (1 lb/cubic foot of gypsum, plus bone meal, etc.). Tiedens applied upto 40 tons/acre of lime. I shudder at that idea knowing what the pH would go to. That is why you will keep hearing me repeating gypsum, gypsum, gypsum. You need to get numbers and then do trials. 1/2 dosis, single dosis, 1.5 dosis and double dosis. You choose what you like. That is your game plan.

Try it, you'll like it. Mikey liked it....

Pure poetry!

 

[mrS0ul]

 

[Tonygreen]

I'm glad I stumbled in here. I've come to the realization I've been doing shit ass backwards when it comes to my soil. I've had my nose jammed in genetics papers and books for so long my skill as a grower stopped developing awhile ago... I'm surprised I get 1-2 a light tbh. Winging it too long... Lots of work to catch up.

Appreciate everything greatly slow.

Looking back through my albums has been a shock. The things you have been pointing out to me have been right in front of my clueless ass the whole time.

Onward and upward. I've got some work to do.

 

[slownickel]

I'm glad I stumbled in here. I've come to the realization I've been doing shit ass backwards when it comes to my soil. I've had my nose jammed in genetics papers and books for so long my skill as a grower stopped developing awhile ago... I'm surprised I get 1-2 a light tbh. Winging it too long... Lots of work to catch up.

Appreciate everything greatly slow.

Looking back through my albums has been a shock. The things you have been pointing out to me have been right in front of my clueless ass the whole time.

Onward and upward. I've got some work to do.

Tony,

Congratulations, you are on your way. You now have more tools in your toolbox to figure things out. Many folks resist and don't want to learn, closed up in their own little world.

Sometimes one needs a small disaster to wake them up. Unfortunately, many still don't get it.

Keep going!

 

[HillMizer]

Sap meters.

Sap meters.

So. All of us canna farmers don't have reliable access to tissue analysis. What does Slownickel and everyone else think about horiba (or other) ion field meters.

I've got the soil analysis, but now I've got heaps of excesses. Can I be using these meters to dial it. I have heaps of sulphur and K and Na. Can I still be applying K foliarly during this bloom using meters for guidance?
There's not a phosphorus meter that I'm aware of, so go for broke to get over the sulfur excesses?
I've got my sight set on a K meter and a Ca meter but I don't want to waste money.

 

[slownickel]

So. All of us canna farmers don't have reliable access to tissue analysis. What does Slownickel and everyone else think about horiba (or other) ion field meters.

I've got the soil analysis, but now I've got heaps of excesses. Can I be using these meters to dial it. I have heaps of sulphur and K and Na. Can I still be applying K foliarly during this bloom using meters for guidance?
There's not a phosphorus meter that I'm aware of, so go for broke to get over the sulfur excesses?
I've got my sight set on a K meter and a Ca meter but I don't want to waste money.

Sulfur excesses? We looking at the same analysis?

 

[HillMizer]

Sulfur excesses? We looking at the same analysis?

We're not. My spectrum analysis says 500ppm sulfur.

 

[slownickel]

We're not. My spectrum analysis says 500ppm sulfur.

Your P exceeds your S. Your S is ok at 500ppm. The green house needs P. Your energy is low there in the greenhouse.

You have a very rich soil. You have huge potassium numbers.

Both samples need gypsum.

You need Mn and Cu.

The green house can use some B.

No nitrogens came through... if you send the lab an email, they may have enough soil left to run your nitrogens.

 

[HillMizer]

Your P exceeds your S. Your S is ok at 500ppm. The green house needs P. Your energy is low there in the greenhouse.

You have a very rich soil. You have huge potassium numbers.

Both samples need gypsum.

You need Mn and Cu.

The green house can use some B.

No nitrogens came through... if you send the lab an email, they may have enough soil left to run your nitrogens.

Thanks Slownickel. I have applied cu zn mn sulfates as well as 3 rounds of gypsum and dicalcium phosphate. The greenhouse plants were later so I nailed the calcium & phos application this time and they blew up during the stretch. I'm ready to send another sample.I'll do some Borax in the greenhouse I think I flushed some Na too.

 

[slownickel]

Thanks Slownickel. I have applied cu zn mn sulfates as well as 3 rounds of gypsum and dicalcium phosphate. The greenhouse plants were later so I nailed the calcium & phos application this time and they blew up during the stretch. I'm ready to send another sample.I'll do some Borax in the greenhouse I think I flushed some Na too.

How things looking? Seeing response?

 

[slownickel]

What we have seen from several growers so far, from Hawaii, Cali, Oregon and a bunch of unknowns that are running soil samples with the Nickel twist are all seeing the same thing. Over and over.

I know it sounds like a one size fits all. But as our big Caterpillar has shown us is that the big boys know to use gypsum. 80 lbs of gypsum in 3 square yards of a low amendment mix. I bow to such genius. He makes me look like a cub scout. Thanks for the wake up call buddy!

With that said, I can only offer to pay for his soil analysis of his best plant. What say ye all?

 

[redlaser]

slownickel, did Caterpillar say how the plants responded to that rate of gypsum? I read a fair amount but might have missed it somewhere.

I have some hope that gypsum will be helpful with my excess chloride issue, what are your thoughts on that working? I plan on RO treating the water for future soil and container plants but hope the gypsum will help with flushing or tying up the chloride from a years worth of bad water.

As far as covering a test for a plant, sounds good and would add to your contributions here which are adding up regularly.

 

[slownickel]

Red,

Gypsum will most definitely help with the chloride. Watch your P and S, they are the competition with Chloride.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7614744&postcount=2075

And then go look at the photos of Caterpillars place..... LMAO

 

[EastBayGrower]

hey slownickel,

im getting some soil tests done at logan labs, how important is getting the c:N, si, mo, and co tested also? I went ahead and did the aa 8.2 cause of the large amount of carbonate and that raised the price from 25 to 28 per sample..

with the c:N and other traces it came out to like $68 per sample, big difference when testing multiple samples... any feedback?

 

[slownickel]

hey slownickel,

im getting some soil tests done at logan labs, how important is getting the c:N, si, mo, and co tested also? I went ahead and did the aa 8.2 cause of the large amount of carbonate and that raised the price from 25 to 28 per sample..

with the c:N and other traces it came out to like $68 per sample, big difference when testing multiple samples... any feedback?

I have never used Logan. I have heard oodles of complaints only, especially when a couple of folk ran side by side analysis where the same sample was run twice. Historically their numbers seem to be all over the place.

I don't bother with Mo, Si or Co in soil analysis here. I apply Mo and Co as I know there isn't any here in our soils. Many growers I work with get foliar tests for those elements instead of soil tests.

As for Si, we spray Horsetail as a fungicide/Si source regularly.

I would run nitrogens, separating ammonia from nitrate. Logan runs a third type of N, which I don't really understand. Maybe you could ask.

Ideally you would stick some corn in the corner some where and run foliar samples from the corn to compare soil analysis and foliars. If one can't explain the other, might be time to look at a different lab.

At the end of the day, lab costs are meaningless as to the headache and difference it can save you on yields and quality. What is important is the results.

Many growers don't believe in soil analysis and with good reason, the single biggest element in any soil analysis is Calcium. Most labs due to not using the right procedures for their situation will leave you lost, reporting back more Ca than is available to the plant, especially in light of the dynamic and often untested water source.

Congrats on the initiative!

 

[plantingplants]

I see Spectrum has the special Kraidy package deal now haha. My soil/water samples are on the way.

Is corn the best crop to plant with cannabis for tissue analysis? I definitely want to try this next year. There are established benchmarks and tissue composition for a crop like corn. Is it the closest in nutrient requirements to cannabis? Does it set fruit at the same time? Does the fact that it's a C4 make a difference?

 

[slownickel]

Yeah, they wanted to call it that! Too many of you all were sending in samples and they weren't getting posted. It was the easy way for the lab to post them all to my account, but putting a different code on them.

The price is the same as running thing separately.

I like corn because it is easy to read by eye. There are so many photos of corn and it's deficiencies, it would make things easier to read and to have as a foliar reference.

Not sure what else we can plant without begging for insect problems and to follow the same cycle.

What is really neat is that we are seeing unbelievably high levels of boron and the plants seem to love it. No one has an idea of how high we need to take it. This is a boron loving crop for sure.

Glad to hear you are going to run your samples. Ask for the K-2 package. We're getting a great data base!

 

[Tonygreen]

How much do we stuff in the envelope for the K-2?