Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[brown_thumb]

I ordered some dihydrous calcium sulfate to top dress. When I apply it should I stop using the liquid CaMg+ I've been using or should I use both?

 

[slownickel]

I ordered some dihydrous calcium sulfate to top dress. When I apply it should I stop using the liquid CaMg+ I've been using or should I use both?

Brown,

What is your media based on? Stop the Camag immediately regardless. Where are you in your cycle?

I would say no later than 3 weeks into flowering.... maybe four at the latest. Any time prior to that would be fine.. dosage is something else...

 

[plantingplants]

Why does a huge CEC mean you have to irrigate slower? Can't figure that one out.

 

[_tessarecting]

Aeration.

Like plain coco vs coco/perlite 1:1 or 5:1.

 

[slownickel]

Why does a huge CEC mean you have to irrigate slower? Can't figure that one out.

The higher the CEC, the more nutrients there are, correct?

You need a lot more worm castings to get to a CEC of 25. It will be wet forever. Most clays are at CEC levels of 30 plus!

 

[brown_thumb]

Brown,

What is your media based on? Stop the Camag immediately regardless. Where are you in your cycle?

I would say no later than 3 weeks into flowering.... maybe four at the latest. Any time prior to that would be fine.. dosage is something else...

These are not flowering.... still in vegetation.

The soil is 50 percent Victory Sea Blend, 25 percent perlite, 12.5 percent vermiculite and 12.5 percent rice hulls. I've done nothing else other than follow directions with Emerald Harvest nutrients, add CaMg+... and recently added liquid kelp and Humax to the mix. I feed every time but water until approximately 20 percent run-off.

 

[plantingplants]

So what's the best way to lower CEC? Is it ok to make a peat mix that's 1:1 with aeration like lava rock? Or low cec topsoil? So if I have 80 yards of 23 cec soil, and I add 20 yards of lava rock, and 20 yards of 10 cec topsoil, that might bring it down to a respectable 15 or so?

Although my soil is at 7 pH, and that wouldn't acidify it... so I have to pick between raising the cec but correcting the pH, or correcting the CEC but leaving the pH. I'm gonna say pH is probably more important?

I just bought a bale of peat. I'm gonna make a few test soils and send in some samples. I'm trying to calculate my gyp requirement to hit 85%... slow, are these AA8.2 BCS numbers right for the Mound sample?

K - 0.6 meq/100g ... 3.9%
Mg - 2.45 ... 15.9%
Ca - 12.2 ... 79.4%
Na - 0.1 ... 0.65%
H - 0

CEC = 15.35 meq/100g soil


lb. gypsum/acre = C.E.C. x (desired %Ca sat. - present %Ca sat) x 18

So 15.35*(85-79.4)*18 = 1547 lbs/acre. 806.7 yards in acre furrow slice, so 1.9 lbs/yd.

 

[slownickel]

So what's the best way to lower CEC? Is it ok to make a peat mix that's 1:1 with aeration like lava rock? Or low cec topsoil? So if I have 80 yards of 23 cec soil, and I add 20 yards of lava rock, and 20 yards of 10 cec topsoil, that might bring it down to a respectable 15 or so?

Although my soil is at 7 pH, and that wouldn't acidify it... so I have to pick between raising the cec but correcting the pH, or correcting the CEC but leaving the pH. I'm gonna say pH is probably more important?

I just bought a bale of peat. I'm gonna make a few test soils and send in some samples. I'm trying to calculate my gyp requirement to hit 85%... slow, are these AA8.2 BCS numbers right for the Mound sample?

K - 0.6 meq/100g ... 3.9%
Mg - 2.45 ... 15.9%
Ca - 12.2 ... 79.4%
Na - 0.1 ... 0.65%
H - 0

CEC = 15.35 meq/100g soil


lb. gypsum/acre = C.E.C. x (desired %Ca sat. - present %Ca sat) x 18

So 15.35*(85-79.4)*18 = 1547 lbs/acre. 806.7 yards in acre furrow slice, so 1.9 lbs/yd.

You have to recalculate your base distributions substituting the Ca in the [email protected] reported in ppms with the Mg, Na and K from the M3 to run the base distributions.

 

[slownickel]

These are not flowering.... still in vegetation.

The soil is 50 percent Victory Sea Blend, 25 percent perlite, 12.5 percent vermiculite and 12.5 percent rice hulls. I've done nothing else other than follow directions with Emerald Harvest nutrients, add CaMg+... and recently added liquid kelp and Humax to the mix. I feed every time but water until approximately 20 percent run-off.

What are the dimensions of your bags/pots etc...

Any pics?

 

[plantingplants]

Ok. So that paints a whole different picture:
CEC .. 17.7
K 0.93 .. 5.2%
Mg 4.4 .. 24.8%
Ca 12.2 .. 68%
Na 0.19 .. 1%

That Mg level is fucked. Guess I'll see if I can get it to move with a shitload of gyp and some k sulfate.

Is that CEC*18*(desired sat. - curren saturation) equation ok for gyp?

 

[Natural Farmer]

I found this very helpful for understanding CEC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHev2Ovrm6M

 

[Natural Farmer]

Aluminium speciation and phytotoxicity in alkaline soils

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11104-012-1232-5

 

[slownickel]

Ok. So that paints a whole different picture:
CEC .. 17.7
K 0.93 .. 5.2%
Mg 4.4 .. 24.8%
Ca 12.2 .. 68%
Na 0.19 .. 1%

That Mg level is fucked. Guess I'll see if I can get it to move with a shitload of gyp and some k sulfate.

Is that CEC*18*(desired sat. - curren saturation) equation ok for gyp?

Just take 85-68=17 17% more of the CEC needs Ca. 17%x17.7=3 You need 3 meq of Calcium. You guys doing the astera math are killing me...

 

[Sokan]

I was sold because of the math part of the recipe inthat book...really and when I sat down to calculate I got stuck with convertions and futher calc. Just trying to mimic the patterns though having the ingredients I have. Slow, how do you feel in front of a camera? Or educational paper? Might be a joke, might be an opportunity)

 

[slownickel]

I was sold because of the math part of the recipe inthat book...really and when I sat down to calculate I got stuck with convertions and futher calc. Just trying to mimic the patterns though having the ingredients I have. Slow, how do you feel in front of a camera? Or educational paper? Might be a joke, might be an opportunity)

I was on the BBC in the UK regarding my organic banana farm in Costa Rica, I have given numerous presentations to large groups of growers, grapes, sugar cane, coffee, bananas, pineapples, mangoes and half a dozen other crops... I am old.... but still kicking!

I enjoy teaching folks about reality. Amazing how many folks are so terribly lost!

 

[HappyTreeFarm]

Aluminium speciation and phytotoxicity in alkaline soils

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11104-012-1232-5

Ph > 9.0 how is that a helpful study?

 

[HappyTreeFarm]

I was on the BBC in the UK regarding my organic banana farm in Costa Rica, I have given numerous presentations to large groups of growers, grapes, sugar cane, coffee, bananas, pineapples, mangoes and half a dozen other crops... I am old.... but still kicking!

I enjoy teaching folks about reality. Amazing how many folks are so terribly lost!

Do you use the same soil balancing principles across the board with all your crops? Trees and other fruit alike? Are your recommendations any different for C3 plants?

 

[plantingplants]

Slow, I got the gyp formula from Spectrum. Is that from astera? As you can see, I'm fumbling around trying to figure this stuff out. I appreciate your help.

Why don't we include other cations like NH4, Fe, and Al in the distributions?

Screws doesn't just water. He has been using sap ph pens, brix meters and other pens. Why would he do that if he just uses water. I have yet to see him an announce what he uses, but it aint just water, IMO. Pretty sure BYF has him on AEA. Can't confirm or deny.

This past season he got on the foliar boat. The previous year he got a couple meters but I'm pretty sure he barely used them. He only watered the whole year and did great. Did have some PM tho.

 

[brown_thumb]

What are the dimensions of your bags/pots etc...

Any pics?

They were in 4x4 round coco fiber pots but I transplanted to a variety of plastic 2.5-3.5 liter pots a few days ago. I saw no root-binding at time of transplant... I don't know if that's good or bad. The smallest coco pots with clear plastic covers are new seedlings.

 

[slownickel]

Slow, I got the gyp formula from Spectrum. Is that from astera? As you can see, I'm fumbling around trying to figure this stuff out. I appreciate your help.

Why don't we include other cations like NH4, Fe, and Al in the distributions?

PP,

Did you read Tiedjens yet? You know how he fixed soils? Did a total CEC test and then measured Ca. That is all he did. Read his book. He was a thousand times more educated about it than I. He didn't like gypsum. But that is because he was on acid soils. Tell Orechron to apply gypsum to an acid soil and see what he says!

If you add all those Cations into this TEC, what is going to happen to your Ca dosis? That's right. It will go up.

And what do I tell you to do? Try calcium spikes, calcium dosage tests (Tonygreen won over Cater with 1 lbs per cubic foot of gypsum) and guess what we keep hearing from these high dosage experiments? mmmmmmmm?

I run calcium tests in every type soil I have which is 5. Long term, with specific rows and varying dosages. I am generating long term data....