Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[Dakine]

its all good Dakine, we prevented it before you potted all the new ones, so no biggie..
and you are on the right track now
like i said right at the beginning you mixed in too much and then added nutes on top of that, burning them and most prob lowering the soil ph too much...
keep it simple and get to know the plant and your soil first before tweaking too much
you gotta thin out your mix now, if you will use it.. (id leave it, unless you double what you already have and then it should pan out)
you mentioned you want more control of fertilization, id mix them up with light warrior, perlite and the ewc like discussed...
then you will most prob need to start feeding lightly after 2-3 weeks when roots are estanlished
once we know your exact water + soil ph & ec it will be easier to figure it out.
peace

Yeah bro we forsure caught it at the best time we where able to. I should've mentioned my semi amended soil mixes before hand.But they worked perfect for my girls outdoors. So I didn't think about it much..

I do want to have more control for sure! But I like the concept of growing organic. But I still want to feel like I'm in control when watering/feeding.. kinda crosses each other out... I think the amended soil would still be good if we added the bags of FFOF and light warrior with some extra perlite into them and mixed it good. Then use it for the outdoor soilbed..

Nickel-Do you have anything fast acting in mind? My plants only have 2minths left in flower. Wouldn't it take almost that same time to fully break down the gypsum top dressing? I was looking at Hi-Cal liquid nutrients, because it's already available to the roots once added.

Tony- haha it's all g bro, just my way of justifying myself. So I can tell myself it was only partially my fault..
this is random but- if some random contest/giveaway pops up and a 5pk of Gbubble was the prize and only I could enter. I might forgive u for not keeping the warning in your signature.. Actually let's make it a 10pk since your feeling so nice haha..
All joking aside your shit looks like some fire, and I like the way you go about your business. Once I get my shit dialed in for the most part, and funds are there. Hopefully I can get the gbubble still or atleast another cross of yours.

Ahhhh I already got the new ph pen, and I think it's bunk even when calibrated! Maybe I should see if I can return it and get the ec Meter. Or atleast credit towards one.

 

[slownickel]

Gypsum is very soluble. A fine grind disappears immediately.

What kind of calcium is in the soluble Ca product you are talking about? What is the name of the product?

Pretty sure things will bulk with some gypsum. Go easy. Metals are important in flowering too and are critical in sugar conversion. Especially Manganese.

 

[Space Case]

Dakine, is it this?

http://www.tetrachemicals.com/Products/Agriculture/Hi-Cal.aqf

If so, it is Calcium Chloride. which I would say no to. Maybe in tiny amounts, but why add all that chloride with the potential of killing microbial life? I have done my own trials with foliar feeding different levels of calcium chloride and compared it to foliar feeds of the same levels of calcium nitrate. At about 50ppm of Cl, the plants start to react negatively to it. Seems that orchids love it, but its not for cannabis. Stick to gypsum or cal nitrate for soluble calcium.

 

[Dakine]

Dakine, is it this?

http://www.tetrachemicals.com/Products/Agriculture/Hi-Cal.aqf

If so, it is Calcium Chloride. which I would say no to. Maybe in tiny amounts, but why add all that chloride with the potential of killing microbial life? I have done my own trials with foliar feeding different levels of calcium chloride and compared it to foliar feeds of the same levels of calcium nitrate. At about 50ppm of Cl, the plants start to react negatively to it. Seems that orchids love it, but its not for cannabis. Stick to gypsum or cal nitrate for soluble calcium.

Yeah man thats the exact one I Was talking about. I Was doing alot of research and that kept popping up.. How was your Co2,Humidity,and light intensity during the Foliar Feeding Trials? Those all have a big play in your stomatas and how much there sucking/taking in co2/water and also in releasing water and oxygen..

Before when I needed to add Nutes to my soil because of a deficiency I would sometimes make A tea with the dry organic nutes in a tea bag, after it was done aerating id cut the bag open and dumb the solids back in to basically use as a top dressing.. Seemed to work just fine...

But now If i need something fast acting/ available immediately I use RAW. I only have Raw-Potassium and Raw-Kelp though. I kinda still want to get Raw B-Vitamins, and Calcium until I found out it was Cal/Mag.

I might get B-vitamins but I picked up Crushed/Ground Oyster Shells for Calcium.. Plus I've read that Oyster Shell is also a mild repellant? One of my first ever grows years ago, I think I tried boiling eggs, eating the eggs,Drying the shells out then I crushed it as much as I could to use as a top dressing...

 

[TnTLabs]

Don't use lime in coco, dolomite or otherwise, causes nothing but problems.

cool, thanks.. my coco is on point though.. i wouldnt add anything there... but going to be growing in soil next year outdoors so im here to learn

 

[SkyHighWormGuy]

Slownickle,
I want to get my available calcium up using vermicompost. I have the following inputs available to use: Ag Lime, gypsum, crab shell, oyster shell flour.

I think oyster shell flour mixed in the worm feed will get the job done, do you agree? Is there a point where one could over-do it?

It would be great to have a consistent, testable, high available calcium Vermicompost product, for organic cannabis production.

 

[slownickel]

Slownickle,
I want to get my available calcium up using vermicompost. I have the following inputs available to use: Ag Lime, gypsum, crab shell, oyster shell flour.

I think oyster shell flour mixed in the worm feed will get the job done, do you agree? Is there a point where one could over-do it?

It would be great to have a consistent, testable, high available calcium Vermicompost product, for organic cannabis production.

The worms don't seem to like having any kind of Ca mixed in while they are working, at least not mine. We mix in calcium and our phosphorus in the worm castings after taking the worms out and then "react" the castings with the Ca and P a couple of times with water before bagging it up to apply in the field.

I would be real careful on counting on much Ca from any carbonate source becoming available very quickly. It will depend on the mesh. Be warned about the spiking of pH with carbonates as well. On an annual, using 120 mesh calcium carbonate, not even a third of that carbonate will become available, even with booming organic material. We use gypsum for that purpose, but only lightly mixed into the worm castings. I use oyster shells here as they are super cheap at $40 a ton delivered and unloaded in bags... Oyster shells are still carbonates... We did trials just using the shells and we could not get our Ca levels up like we can with gypsum 3 times per year in limes and avocados.

What is the pH of your water? Do you have a water analysis? If you have a high pH and bicarbonates of more than 60 ppms, you are going to have a problem with Ca constantly. This is a real big issue that most agronomists don't even discuss. Bicarbonates grab the available Ca in the soil and make it into carbonates. If you have alkaline water, that calcium carbonate just builds up further and further. This makes your Cu and Mn much less available, which is a very real problem for PM, yields, etc..

I do not believe you can get where I want you to go with only shells. But hey, try it. Each soil and medium is differnt. So run some throw away experiments with plants, more and more of each mixed in and dial it in.

I can run numbers and help you, but at the end of the day, You must do the trials and prove it to yourself... and us all please. It is nice to share. Pay it forward!

And yes, you can over do it. Numbers work.

Peace!

 

[Dankwolf]

Not that its that much differnt from oyster shells but what about diatomaceous earth for calcium ?
Its a vary fine powder ?

 

[one.sixoneeight]

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=69408&pictureid=1672187&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Not that its that much differnt from oyster shells but what about diatomaceous earth for calcium ?
Its a vary fine powder ?

Diatomaceous earth is not a calcium source, but it is an excellent silica sourcel
Aragonite would be a substitute source for CaCo3

 

[brown_thumb]

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=69408&pictureid=1672187&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Not that its that much differnt from oyster shells but what about diatomaceous earth for calcium ?
Its a vary fine powder ?

Sorry for the side-step but does DE harm worms or other beneficial creatures?

 

[jidoka]

Slow...i got a real question, no fucking around. In tissue tests do you need a higher K to Ca ratio in limes than avacados?

 

[slownickel]

Dank,

Can't imagine a more expensive Ca supply, and yes, that is calcium carbonate.... you will be quite amazed at what you will see with a bit of gypsum up front, well calculated, with a good soil analysis...

 

[slownickel]

Slow...i got a real question, no fucking around. In tissue tests do you need a higher K to Ca ratio in limes than avacados?

I will have to look. Never looked at one crop against another. I get back home on saturday, if I remember, I will look then.

 

[Dakine]

Hey you guys, ill try to get some pics up when I can, But I had a question about lollipopping.

So right now im about 10 days into flower give or take a day.. So its pretty easy to tell which secondary branches are big enough/gonna actually produce colas/small colas big enough to keep..

So i've been taking off the shoots that are pretty far down, kind of near where the stem comes out from the main branch, Some A little higher,and the smaller shoots that arent growing with the stem there on(Branching out)..

I was actually thinking to take off everything before her stretching in flower? Im just not really sure, the new growth/shoots have really small spaces between the nodes, which will produce the Colas. Everything below that has almsot triple the space between the nodes and is growing slowly compared to newer growth..

I also havent been taking off the fan leaves, right next to the shoots that ive been trimming, Alot of people say to do that, which is why its called lollipopping. But cutting fan leaves off doesnt make sense to me. I understand why we are taking the lower growth/shoots off, but isnt the fan leaf doing much more for the plant, then the cost of energy to keep those fan leaves?

I've been reading so many things about lollipopping and its still kinda controversial.. Which is why I've been taking only A few lower shoots off each branch every day, and so I dont put the 2 girls into shock.

 

[Dankwolf]

Hey you guys, ill try to get some pics up when I can, But I had a question about lollipopping.

So right now im about 10 days into flower give or take a day.. So its pretty easy to tell which secondary branches are big enough/gonna actually produce colas/small colas big enough to keep..

So i've been taking off the shoots that are pretty far down, kind of near where the stem comes out from the main branch, Some A little higher,and the smaller shoots that arent growing with the stem there on(Branching out)..

I was actually thinking to take off everything before her stretching in flower? Im just not really sure, the new growth/shoots have really small spaces between the nodes, which will produce the Colas. Everything below that has almsot triple the space between the nodes and is growing slowly compared to newer growth..

I also havent been taking off the fan leaves, right next to the shoots that ive been trimming, Alot of people say to do that, which is why its called lollipopping. But cutting fan leaves off doesnt make sense to me. I understand why we are taking the lower growth/shoots off, but isnt the fan leaf doing much more for the plant, then the cost of energy to keep those fan leaves?

I've been reading so many things about lollipopping and its still kinda controversial.. Which is why I've been taking only A few lower shoots off each branch every day, and so I dont put the 2 girls into shock.

Does not really pertane to thread but. As far as sun leafs go the only time i remove is if there dead , cloging up air flow or in the way of a major branch .
I like ti keep as many healthy sun leafs as possable for these reasons. 1 they are help full for early diagnosis of coming issues .2 they are a source of food if needed ( can give you a few extra days to fix issues). 3 leafs are a important part of photosynthesis and with out leafs plants dont grow so well lol.

 

[slownickel]

Does not really pertane to thread but. As far as sun leafs go the only time i remove is if there dead , cloging up air flow or in the way of a major branch .
I like ti keep as many healthy sun leafs as possable for these reasons. 1 they are help full for early diagnosis of coming issues .2 they are a source of food if needed ( can give you a few extra days to fix issues). 3 leafs are a important part of photosynthesis and with out leafs plants dont grow so well lol.

Thought I might chip in a bit of science I picked up a couple of years ago. Not sure if it pertainable to an annual crop like cannabis or not.

In grapes, the Chileans put on a presentation here in Peru. The issue was leaf removal and directional tying of grape vines.

There was some amazing sensors and equipment used to gather this data and come to these conclusions.

Leaves in the sun produce energy to the extent of 100 x. Leaves below those leaves that get partial sun produce 30 to 40 x. Leaves in the third layer from the top down that did receive little or no sun, did not produce energy, those leaves broke even 0 x. The fourth layer had a negative contribution of -40 x. Those leaves below those leaves, pulled more and more energy from the plant.

Guiding branches and leaves I think is critical. I try to tie branches to where I want them to go. I try to keep light on all my branches and if there is not enough space I remove that branch. Leaves that are definitely heavily shaded I pull. Lower bud sites from those leaves I also try and keep clean.

I have never produced a 12 foot grow either. My little plants have never gotten over 4 feet tall with my 12/12 plus any thing bigger than that my neighbors get to look at which is a real no no.

 

[Dakine]

Thats a good experiment.. I kinda wanna know what instruments they used to be able to tell how much energy the leaves produced.. I know you can see how much light intensity,spectrums, and wave lengths are hitting an exact spot. But wouldnt that mean they could tell how much of each color/spectrum was being absorbed by the accessory pigments, and then tell what chlorophyll a and b are up to in the higher leaves that are getting sunlight?

That sounds like a damn good experiment. Wish they used other plants in that experiment as well.. But that is a major crop up there..

But even right now because my girls arent trained the way I wanted them to, if they where flowering inside. Hardly any light is hitting the lowest parts, besides the cfls I have hanging.. These girls where supposed to be outside, where light would be reflecting at almost all parts of the plants. Which is why I grew them taller then shorter/wider, so they would be higher.

 

[Dankwolf]

Thought I might chip in a bit of science I picked up a couple of years ago. Not sure if it pertainable to an annual crop like cannabis or not.

In grapes, the Chileans put on a presentation here in Peru. The issue was leaf removal and directional tying of grape vines.

There was some amazing sensors and equipment used to gather this data and come to these conclusions.

Leaves in the sun produce energy to the extent of 100 x. Leaves below those leaves that get partial sun produce 30 to 40 x. Leaves in the third layer from the top down that did receive little or no sun, did not produce energy, those leaves broke even 0 x. The fourth layer had a negative contribution of -40 x. Those leaves below those leaves, pulled more and more energy from the plant.

Guiding branches and leaves I think is critical. I try to tie branches to where I want them to go. I try to keep light on all my branches and if there is not enough space I remove that branch. Leaves that are definitely heavily shaded I pull. Lower bud sites from those leaves I also try and keep clean.

I have never produced a 12 foot grow either. My little plants have never gotten over 4 feet tall with my 12/12 plus any thing bigger than that my neighbors get to look at which is a real no no.

Not sure what the differnce would be with indoor fixed lighting. But i would Imagine the results would be different. especialy in single light source grows.

after seeing how the south facing side of plants out yield the north faceing side considerably (45th oregon). i could definitely see where precise plant training / triming to optimise plant orientation to the sun outdoors could increase yeilds more so then indoor where most plants are under stationery lighting and there for are kind of traind by the lighting it self . as slownickel said i am sure size of plants would have to be taken in to consideration .

 

[Dankwolf]

Ok mr calcium this might be of use .

Ok mr calcium this might be of use .

 

[Dankwolf]

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