Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[slownickel]

Hydro can work for some, I'd say indoors in a small grow it can have its place... Especially when hauling in CF of soil is a precarious endeavor...

But I've been in and around Commercial AG for a while and there isn't a single GH running Hydro filled with tomatoes, peppers or cukes (and there are miles of GH around these parts doing just like that, especially across the border to the north in Ont) that taste or provide the nutrients anywhere near what you can get in the ground.

Soil, especially outdoors is truly the best and ONLY option, and once you understand what's going on, its' much easier, much less bug pressures (balance), similar or better yields, MUCH better taste, nutrient density and overall health, did I mention TASTE.

We know what things taste like more intuitively than how they smoke, if you've ever grown your own tomatoes, cukes, peppers, eggplant, carrots, beets or whatever then you know what you get at the store or from the local Hydro farmer basically for lack of better words sucks and is a filler, nothing more......

It amazes me how many go thru life without ever really actually eating well which to me is one of lifes great pleasures and no, I'm not fat or overweight at all, I'm a farmer ;0

...

Farmer, I have a grower in S.Cal that has hydro, drain to waste. We started flushing once a week or so with "liquid" aka micronized gypsum. The results have been nothing short of a miracle!

Even using some "liquid" aka micronized bone meal!

There is some good micronized guano on the net, 0-8-0 that will work foliarly and as a drench too.

This is only going to work if you drain to waste or make a third capture tank.

 

[led05]

Farmer, I have a grower in S.Cal that has hydro, drain to waste. We started flushing once a week or so with "liquid" aka micronized gypsum. The results have been nothing short of a miracle!

Even using some "liquid" aka micronized bone meal!

There is some good micronized guano on the net, 0-8-0 that will work foliarly and as a drench too.

This is only going to work if you drain to waste or make a third capture tank.

drain to waste, in S Cal especially, not ideal to say the least, I trust you on the results, however - 3rd capture tank, sounds fancy and more expensive to dispose of

 

[slownickel]

Playing a little Sherlock, a couple of guys, Easy included, have used some of the Foxfarm products. The analysis of all these mixes is ALWAYS K heavy. Not enough P EVER.

So, if you are at 400 ppm of K in your analysis and have 200 ppm of P, I would be you will get a response and like it alot! Why, the plant is starving for P. Won't show up in a leaf analysis either. Often the P will come back high. GOOD. That is the idea. I want high P.

If you have your mix charged up with plenty of P from the beginning, guess what, you are going to have plenty of P all the way through the grow unless you do something silly like applying a high amount of K.

 

[paradoxlost]

Farmer, I have a grower in S.Cal that has hydro, drain to waste. We started flushing once a week or so with "liquid" aka micronized gypsum. The results have been nothing short of a miracle!

Even using some "liquid" aka micronized bone meal!

There is some good micronized guano on the net, 0-8-0 that will work foliarly and as a drench too.

This is only going to work if you drain to waste or make a third capture tank.

How is drain to waste sustainable at all? I worked on a hydro grow in Las vegas and it was fairly small. Six thousand square feet. General hydro grow. And it seemed not only a waste of nutrients, but also insanely expensive. They had to install an underground filter etc. Each 100 gallon nutrient mix was like 300 hundred dollars or something. I quit there after a short time due to doubts on the feasibility of the operation

 

[slownickel]

How is drain to waste sustainable at all? I worked on a hydro grow in Las vegas and it was fairly small. Six thousand square feet. General hydro grow. And it seemed not only a waste of nutrients, but also insanely expensive. They had to install an underground filter etc. Each 100 gallon nutrient mix was like 300 hundred dollars or something. I quit there after a short time due to doubts on the feasibility of the operation

Agree completely. I am still pushing them into a soil. The local regulations prohibit drain to waste.

 

[growingcrazy]

Any of you keeping track of nutrient removal rates and have good data?

On an average yielding plant I see on average 600 PPA removed in 10 weeks of flower... reasonable?

 

[Avenger]

PPA? pounds per acre? of?

 

[growingcrazy]

Sorry, forgot to add the important part... P removal of 600+ PPA.

 

[slownickel]

Sorry, forgot to add the important part... P removal of 600+ PPA.

That is a very big number. How did you calculate that number?

 

[growingcrazy]

This is all just how I do things... Like I have said before, I am just winging this... I am self taught through experiment and reading.

(Test A PPM - Test B PPM) + soil fertigation PPM = P removed in cycle

Example:
A____ B
794-728= 66 ppm removed

Fertigation: (between sample A and B)
P @ 200 PPM in solution... Applied @ 35 soil PPM weekly.

8 x 35 = 280 soil PPM of P added through fertigation in 8 weeks. So back to the start...

66 + 280 = 346 soil PPM used in a cycle, or 692 PPA.

Welcome to my fuckery.

 

[slownickel]

This is all just how I do things... Like I have said before, I am just winging this... I am self taught through experiment and reading.

(Test A PPM - Test B PPM) + soil fertigation PPM = P removed in cycle

Example:
A____ B
794-728= 66 ppm removed

Fertigation: (between sample A and B)
P @ 200 PPM in solution... Applied @ 35 soil PPM weekly.

8 x 35 = 280 soil PPM of P added through fertigation in 8 weeks. So back to the start...

66 + 280 = 346 soil PPM used in a cycle, or 692 PPA.

Welcome to my fuckery.

Are you in a medium or a soil?

If in a medium, are you irrigating til runoff?

What lab did you run these numbers with?

What was the source of P?

 

[growingcrazy]

Native peat mixed with native topsoil (CEC 9), CEC 26-28 total. 8% OM.

In a bed with 36 square feet @ 1' depth ~ 270 gallons of soil, I get about 1.5 gallons runoff daily.

Spectrum.

Calphos, Fish Hyd and P acid for pH down in solution. Bone meal, crab and Calphos in the soil at initial remix.

I have been running this indoor bed just for fun...I finally ran my numbers and this is what I got...not what I was expecting.

 

[slownickel]

Native peat mixed with native topsoil (CEC 9), CEC 26-28 total. 8% OM.

In a bed with 36 square feet @ 1' depth ~ 270 gallons of soil, I get about 1.5 gallons runoff daily.

Spectrum.

Calphos, Fish Hyd and P acid for pH down in solution. Bone meal, crab and Calphos in the soil at initial remix.

I have been running this indoor bed just for fun...I finally ran my numbers and this is what I got...not what I was expecting.

Is that calphos the feed grade stuff? It goes into solution?

So all those numbers where you are adding P. That P is from the Calphos in solution? Or are you summing the bone meal, etc? Is there any P at all in the Fish?

Where did you take the ending sample from? What depth?

P acid dosis would be very low, no?

 

[growingcrazy]

Regular old powdered Calphos. A 100 micron filter is used on the final solution after coming out of the vortex brewer.

I used BM, crab and calphos to build soil P initially. No more topdressing after that. The feed solution has fish hyd. 2-3-1, calphos 0-3-0 and P acid 85%. I use so little P acid I forgot to even factor it in.

Samples taken at 5"-8". At the end of each cycle i take a new sample,same depth, same method. 1 plug sample/sqft and then mix and pull sample quantity needed.

You don't run calphos or BM that has been pre-digested through your irrigation?

I will get the lab #'s.

 

[slownickel]

Regular old powdered Calphos. A 100 micron filter is used on the final solution after coming out of the vortex brewer.

I used BM, crab and calphos to build soil P initially. No more topdressing after that. The feed solution has fish hyd. 2-3-1, calphos 0-3-0 and P acid 85%. I use so little P acid I forgot to even factor it in.

Samples taken at 5"-8". At the end of each cycle i take a new sample,same depth, same method. 1 plug sample/sqft and then mix and pull sample quantity needed.

You don't run calphos or BM that has been pre-digested through your irrigation?

I will get the lab #'s.

I use chicken manure compost and apply it by spreader in the field. All my irrigation is micro sprinkler, but I don't make teas for application via irrigation. I do make teas for foliar application though! Horsetail and other biodynamic type stuff. I don't have a good filter system at the farm, huge expense to upgrade it currently so can't do it this season either.

 

[paradoxlost]

I use chicken manure compost and apply it by spreader in the field. All my irrigation is micro sprinkler, but I don't make teas for application via irrigation. I do make teas for foliar application though! Horsetail and other biodynamic type stuff. I don't have a good filter system at the farm, huge expense to upgrade it currently so can't do it this season either.

Do you think that the gold content of the horse tail has any appreciable affects on cannabis?

 

[growingcrazy]

I use chicken manure compost and apply it by spreader in the field. All my irrigation is micro sprinkler, but I don't make teas for application via irrigation. I do make teas for foliar application though! Horsetail and other biodynamic type stuff. I don't have a good filter system at the farm, huge expense to upgrade it currently so can't do it this season either.

Same here... outside everything is broadcast that is heavy or sent through a wobbler if it is something like calphos in solution.

Indoors it is micro sprinklers for h2o and open .250 tubes for feeding, two systems.

Don't you have a pond for irrigation? With some digging and shaping, a little pipe...it could be the worlds biggest vortex brewer...lol

In all seriousness, I am trying that with an 18' diameter swimming pool/liner this spring...in ground 7,500 gallon brewer...

 

[slownickel]

Do you think that the gold content of the horse tail has any appreciable affects on cannabis?

There is half a ppm of gold in horsetail from some of the data out there. As well, some of it is loaded with manganese, zinc, iron and titanium, depending on where the plant was. However, consistently it has a huge quantity of silicon and calcium.

 

[paradoxlost]

There is half a ppm of gold in horsetail from some of the data out there. As well, some of it is loaded with manganese, zinc, iron and titanium, depending on where the plant was. However, consistently it has a huge quantity of silicon and calcium.

Yea, I know. I think the argument goes even though it's low ppm, it's large ionic radius makes it a significant player some how. I've heard that from biodynamic people. I like it for the silica content

 

[maxmurder]

$300. for 100 gallons mixed res running GH ?