Selling back to clubs?

[nomaad]

from wikipedia: [/br][/br]

Many state constitutions (Arkansas, Wisconsin, Minnesota, New York) refer to allodial title, but only to clearly distinguish it from feudal title, which appears to be illegal throughout the United States. The conditions under which the government can compel the sale of privately owned real property for public benefit are established by eminent domain laws of either the federal or state governments, respectively. The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution requires just compensation for eminent domain compelled sale. The right of the several states to tax real estate is preserved in the Constitution. In addition, the government powers of police power, and escheat have been retained in the American legal system.

 

[zenoonez]

do any states allow allodial title?

I believe Texas and Nevada are the only ones that allow allodial title and that is on property as in land. Cars I know should be able to be owned in allodial title but I am sure you would need a lawyer to fight for it in court when you get pulled over.

 

[Dhude]

Are you gonna factually dispute what I said or throw sticks and stones?

If you think Vons makes 100% markup on every item they sell (in this economy no less) you're nuts, and they are in bussiness to make a profit.

Yet I just proved dispensaries markup 100% so explain to me how they don't make a profit. It's economically impossible.

Yes, I did, and will continue to factually dispute your ill-informed banter. I have owned multiple retail establishements. Again, for NON_PERISHABLE goods (your grocery example is whacked, as perishables are a known special case with some stuff selling at losses to attract people into the establishment - called "loss leaders", and others with markups WAY over 100%. Supermarket produce is marked up 100-3000% to deal with the inevitable perishable waste/concomitant loss side of the deal)

What do you think the markup is on say, a heart surgery, at a non-profit Catholic hospital (say maybe St Joseph's)? Again, thousands upon thousands of percent. Yet they are a non profit and lose money in many years. By your metrics, any non-profit selling goods at std markups can't be non-profit...a very wrong, uninformed, and simplistic take. My seven year old has a better understanding of business fundamentals.

Non profit has many factors, and sales price of inventory is only one. Captial expenses, recurring consumables, legal costs, employees, insurance, rent, and the list keep going. Being a non-profit or working for one is not an oath of poverty. The CEOs of giant nonprofits of all kinds (health industry, advocacy/lobbying, megachurches) easily make 10x what I pay myself as salary from our non profit.

So when you actually gain some real world experience running retail operations, or hell even a fresh biz school grad would know this stuff, come back and educate us. Until then, try to limit your blatantly incorrect statements put forth as fact or evidence. Hint: It only discredits you among anyone who knows WTF they're talking about wrt retail trade.

 

[nomaad]

people generally have no idea what nonprofit or not for profit means in a legal sense.

 

[Greyskull]

DocLeaf - i can tone it down just as long as you realize medical need is medical need, pain is pain. Terminally ill are not the only people who benefit form medical marijuana, though they probably benefit the most of anybody. I get emotional regarding this cause - you know that... and its not becasue i don't care, either....
my post was made before i realized your orignal post was modified some (there seems to be an amount of time between posting and editing - maybe its navigating away from the page? before 'editted' appears below the post.. whatever though). I was tired and worked up from what i understood you had said, and when i realized you had changed/modified the post I decided to just let mine remain to remind folks that sleeping disorders are deadly and are worthy of medical marijuana recommendations (not that I am a doctor). And buying medical marijuana instead of ambien is not a bad thing...

Dhude - right on. Very well said..
I get emotional, as i said above, haha.

Dotty - you want me to factually dispute you? ok - open a business and learn the facts of business life firsthand. If you are telling me you own a successful business and don't mark up goods/services I am calling 'bullshit'. I don't think you own a business... thats not throwing stones thats my observation.

but you like facts, so here you go. just for you.

from:http://nonprofit.about.com/od/profiles/p/redcross.htm

The American Red Cross is perhaps the most iconic of our nonprofit organizations. Its symbol, the red cross, is emblematic worldwide of help and relief in time of war and during catastrophes.

I know you saw this from Pythagllio but didn't respond... so i'll poke you about it.

The CEO of the American Red Cross is paid an annual salary of $565,000.

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3277

so from what i understand from your idealogy is the whole entire red cross should be arrested accordingly, right? Because, obviously people profitting $500k+ from a non profit are doing so very illegally. Maybe you should take it upon yourself to alert the authorities? You could be a hero....

people generally have no idea what nonprofit or not for profit means in a legal sense.

that is very true. its alarming what some people have ideas about....

 

[Blue Dot]

so from what i understand from your idealogy is the whole entire red cross should be arrested accordingly, right? Because, obviously people profitting $500k+ from a non profit are doing so very illegally. Maybe you should take it upon yourself to alert the authorities? You could be a hero....

You know damn well the american red cross wasn't founded on the idea of making the founders rich.

Just because this is the present day incarnation doesn't mean jack shit because EVERYTHING in present day America is perverted and twisted so far from its original intention that's it's actually embarrassing to live in what is called America today.

 

[Diskrete]

It means everything! It's not the founders getting rich it's the executives. It is embarassing to live in america sometimes..but you take the good with the bad right? we just gotta keep on keeping on. It's rediculous that a non-profit gets it's doors kicked down and ransacked and expected to show where their money goes. Do that to any current non-profit and you will run into problems and backlash from the community, do it to dispensaries and we just have to sit back in awe because they know we will not risk our false sense of security(legal med user) to fight them as openly as the community can fight a huge non profit like Red Cross, YMCA...shit like that pisses me off, When I worked for the YMCA we brought in so much fucking money from "donations" the only difference is those donations pay for a name on a building where a dispensary has not had the chance to figure out where that money goes. I did hear of one dispensary that got that truly was a non profit with all extra funds going to sdpd, sdfd, and sheriffs assoc. What kind of shit is that? owners barely cleared their overhaead every month.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Just because this is the present day incarnation doesn't mean jack shit because EVERYTHING in present day America is perverted and twisted so far from its original intention that's it's actually embarrassing to live in what is called America today.

Although I have to disagree with many of your posts BD, this statement from you (taken out of context) is a true and correct statement. You left out the part about people not having any clue that it's perverted and twisted. Your heart is in the right place but your view is a bit twisted from reality.

Everyone should want to know what our country was originally founded to operate like, before the perversion and corruption. Want a better idea of what our 'Founding Fathers' were going through when they drafted up the constitution? Check out these videos on a constitution class that are very informative and to the point. This guy has done his homework. (about 20 years worth).

Watch the videos and then think about it for a day or so. Try not to read, see or hear any media, advertising, tv, movies or anything after watching and then see how you feel when you read about what has been happening the last 70 years and even longer. It'll make you sick.

 

[darookie2000]

even on the internet retail is easily a 100% markup, and i wouldnt get in any business if my profit wasnt double what i put into it, unless it a few cases like importing/exporting, but thats not retail

Not electronics lol, I think a lot of the markup in clubs has to do with permits, insurance, retainer, security, etc. I'm not sure how "reasonable" the salaries are, but I assume that's not an insignificant component of the markup.

 

[Greyskull]

before you start reading please click on the link to understand how i feel... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF_W...D6B69A10&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=52

now then....

You know damn well the american red cross wasn't founded on the idea of making the founders rich.

man that sure doesn't translate very well to the tune of $565,000...

so if the red cross, a non profit organization, can somehow magically find $565,000 to pay its CEO... where is that money coming from? I mean,
none of the stuff for sale at their internet store website is sold for profit, right? AND NONE OF IT IS MARKED UP ANY, RIGHT?
http://www.redcrossstore.org/dp.aspx?pgid=-1
example:
http://www.redcrossstore.org/Shopper/Product.aspx?UniqueItemId=64

Battery Powered Flashlight (batteries included)
Battery Powered Radio (batteries included)
Emergency Blanket
Food Bars (4,800 calories total)
Work Gloves (one pair)
Light Sticks (3 each one lasts 12 hours)
Moist Towelettes (6)
A Breathing Mask (NIOSH-N95)
Plastic Sheeting (10' x 10')
Rain Poncho
Personal First Aid Kit
Roll of Duct Tape
Water (2 quarts)
Water Container (2.5 gallon)
Whistle
First Aid and Emergency Preparedness Booklet

The vintage-inspired packaging features plastic, zippered compartments for easy organization of the included content and any additional items added for personal customization. This kit makes a great gift for the trendsetter in your life…great style with a purpose!

$59.95 - thats not marked up at all...

so if the red cross wasn't started with the idea of making the founders rich, but it HAS done so - even if accidentally - over time.... who are you to say that collective x wasn't started with the sole intention of providing safe access to the sick in the community? As the non profit red cross organization gained size so did its financials - right in step... why would/how should a growing non profit medical marijuana storefront/delivery service be any different?

 

[Pythagllio]

Reality is the CEO of the Red Cross almost certainly returns more in value to the organization than his salary. Some would rather the Red Cross have less than anyone should be paid a salary that is 'high' in their own perverted view of the world. We just have to accept that some people have the mistaken notion that if others have less, that they would themselves have more. Though they would settle for everyone being as bereft of resources as themselves as a compromise. After all, misery loves company. The disgusting thingb is that these self serving assholes try to couch their personal greed in some sort of altruistic manner as if they really care about other people, when their idiocy leads directly to more human suffering, not less. Make the Red Cross run on volunteers, and just see if their size and amount of aid rendered doesn't shrink substantially. But isn't it better that more people should suffer than someone get paid?

 

[Blue Dot]

Reality is the CEO of the Red Cross almost certainly returns more in value to the organization than his salary. Some would rather the Red Cross have less than anyone should be paid a salary that is 'high' in their own perverted view of the world. We just have to accept that some people have the mistaken notion that if others have less, that they would themselves have more. Though they would settle for everyone being as bereft of resources as themselves as a compromise. After all, misery loves company. The disgusting thingb is that these self serving assholes try to couch their personal greed in some sort of altruistic manner as if they really care about other people, when their idiocy leads directly to more human suffering, not less. Make the Red Cross run on volunteers, and just see if their size and amount of aid rendered doesn't shrink substantially. But isn't it better that more people should suffer than someone get paid?

Enough with your damn "the ends justify the means" arguement.

By your logic we should encourage more mexican nationals to grow in our sacred national forests and even encourage the importation of MJ thru the brutal and ruthless and bloody mexican/usa border smuggling because in the end this will mean more supply to the sick patients.

Don't you get that there is a point when the ends don't justify the means because the valuation of the end benefit is outnumbered by the valuation of the actual harm of the means, ie letting gangs, russian mobs and whatever else set up dispensaries.

What, you thought the 700 dispensaries in LA were run by Mother Teresa?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

What, you thought the 700 dispensaries in LA were run by Mother Teresa?

For some reason it seems to me that you have a problem with the number of dispensaries. Can you think of a more realistic model of distribution that would allow people who know how to grow quality to supply patients?

Would you be willing to stand on a street corner with a can and ask for donations 4hrs a day? That would help me out a lot BD. I can't afford even a third of what I need under the current system. I'm about to just add you to my ignore list and focus on horses that don't insist on dying of dehydration.

 

[Blue Dot]

For some reason it seems to me that you have a problem with the number of dispensaries. Can you think of a more realistic model of distribution that would allow people who know how to grow quality to supply patients?

It's not the number per se but the people running them. Open your eyes.

As for a realistic model of distro, how about massive collectives with mass security oversaw by the city/state with routine NTF/sheriffs inspections, growers info database, Ag dept inspections, city accountants, insurance, etc.

 

[Greyskull]

It's not the number per se but the people running them. Open your eyes.

As for a realistic model of distro, how about massive collectives with mass security oversaw by the city/state with routine NTF/sheriffs inspections, growers info database, Ag dept inspections, city accountants, insurance, etc.

okay and that will bring the costs way down - involving more goverment agencies, right?
and the quality of product will be of the highest standards?
You like the goverment cheese Blue Dot?

 

[Pythagllio]

Enough with your damn "the ends justify the means" arguement.

As if you hold some sort of moral high ground. Bullshit, you're a fucking degenerate asshole who wants to restrict access to meds because you hate people that have more than you do because you're a worthless fucking piece of shit with nothing to offer.

By your logic we should encourage more mexican nationals to grow in our sacred national forests and even encourage the importation of MJ thru the brutal and ruthless and bloody mexican/usa border smuggling because in the end this will mean more supply to the sick patients.

This is a direct result of people attempting to cut off supply, and standing in the way of voluntary transactions. this is a result of the law of unintended consequence, and is more supported by your insane, pathological need to drag others down to your level.

Don't you get that there is a point when the ends don't justify the means because the valuation of the end benefit is outnumbered by the valuation of the actual harm of the means, ie letting gangs, russian mobs and whatever else set up dispensaries.

What, you thought the 700 dispensaries in LA were run by Mother Teresa?

Anyway, another day, another logical fallacy posted by Blue iDiot. Perhaps his mind is addled by prescription meds and I shouldn't be so critical.

 

[richyrich]

I have been following all of these threads of lately, but have chosen to just side line it now. Most of you make very good points in every respect. What I can't tolerate is the uncivility and just straight rudeness. There is no reason to be like that. In most of my posts I have left my edealistic opinions aside and analyze with pure logic to the best of my ability. Reading all posts, I agree with a lot of what all of you have to say. Sometimes, both sides can be correct as you will see by reading the list below. I must say it is a damn pickle.

Speaking of fallacious (false) arguments, each of you read what I have put together below and honestly ask yourself which of these you have used to advance your argument. As I have brought up elsewhere, I see a whole lot of fishies, lol; red herrings. Read up. It may help all make this more worthwhile instead of getting one's blood boiling.

Changing The Subject (Digression, Red Herring, Misdirection, False Emphasis):

this is sometimes used to avoid having to defend a claim, or to avoid making good on a promise. In general, there is something you are not supposed to notice.

Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man):

attacking the person instead of attacking his argument. For example, "Von Daniken's books about ancient astronauts are worthless because he is a convicted forger and embezzler." (Which is true, but that's not why they're worthless.)

Needling:

simply attempting to make the other person angry, without trying to address the argument at hand. Sometimes this is a delaying tactic.

Needling is also Ad Hominem if you insult your opponent.

Straw Man (Fallacy Of Extension):

attacking an exaggerated or caricatured version of your opponent's position.

For example, the claim that "evolution means a dog giving birth to a cat."

Argument From Adverse Consequences (Appeal To Fear, Scare Tactics):

saying an opponent must be wrong, because if he is right, then bad things would ensue.

Special Pleading (Stacking The Deck):

using the arguments that support your position, but ignoring or somehow disallowing the arguments against.

Psychogenetic Fallacy:

if you learn the psychological reason why your opponent likes an argument, then he's biased, so his argument must be wrong.

Argument By Emotive Language (Appeal To The People):

using emotionally loaded words to sway the audience's sentiments instead of their minds. Many emotions can be useful: anger, spite, envy, condescension, and so on.

Begging The Question (Assuming The Answer, Tautology):

reasoning in a circle. The thing to be proved is used as one of your assumptions. For example: "We must have a death penalty to discourage violent crime". (This assumes it discourages crime.) Or, "The stock market fell because of a technical adjustment." (But is an "adjustment" just a stock market fall?)

Bad Analogy:

claiming that two situations are highly similar, when they aren't.

Extended Analogy:

the claim that two things, both analogous to a third thing, are therefore analogous to each other. For example, this debate:

"I believe it is always wrong to oppose the law by breaking it."
"Such a position is odious: it implies that you would not have supported Martin Luther King."
"Are you saying that cryptography legislation is as important as the struggle for Black liberation? How dare you!"

A person who advocates a particular position (say, about gun control) may be told that Hitler believed the same thing. The clear implication is that the position is somehow tainted. But Hitler also believed that window drapes should go all the way to the floor. Does that mean people with such drapes are monsters?

Causal Reductionism (Complex Cause):

trying to use one cause to explain something, when in fact it had several causes.


Exception That Proves The Rule:

a specific example of Cliche Thinking. This is used when a rule has been asserted, and someone points out the rule doesn't always work. The cliche rebuttal is that this is "the exception that proves the rule". Many people think that this cliche somehow allows you to ignore the exception, and continue using the rule.

Appeal To Widespread Belief (Bandwagon Argument, Peer Pressure, Appeal to Common Practice):

the claim, as evidence for an idea, that many people believe it, or used to believe it, or do it.

Fallacy Of Division:

assuming that what is true of the whole is true of each constituent part. For example, human beings are made of atoms, and human beings are conscious, so atoms must be conscious.

Complex Question (Tying):

unrelated points are treated as if they should be accepted or rejected together. In fact, each point should be accepted or rejected on its own merits.

Slippery Slope Fallacy (Camel's Nose)

there is an old saying about how if you allow a camel to poke his nose into the tent, soon the whole camel will follow.

The fallacy here is the assumption that something is wrong because it is right next to something that is wrong. Or, it is wrong because it could slide towards something that is wrong.

Argument By Pigheadedness (Doggedness):

refusing to accept something after everyone else thinks it is well enough proved. For example, there are still Flat Earthers.

Argument By Repetition (Argument Ad Nauseam):

if you say something often enough, some people will begin to believe it. There are some net.kooks who keeping reposting the same articles to Usenet, presumably in hopes it will have that effect.

Argument By Half Truth (Suppressed Evidence):

this is hard to detect, of course. You have to ask questions. For example, an amazingly accurate "prophecy" of the assassination attempt on President Reagan was shown on TV. But was the tape recorded before or after the event? Many stations did not ask this question. (It was recorded afterwards.)

Argument By Selective Observation:

also called cherry picking, the enumeration of favorable circumstances, or as the philosopher Francis Bacon described it, counting the hits and forgetting the misses. For example, a state boasts of the Presidents it has produced, but is silent about its serial killers. Or, the claim "Technology brings happiness". (Now, there's something with hits and misses.)

Argument By Selective Reading:

making it seem as if the weakest of an opponent's arguments was the best he had. Suppose the opponent gave a strong argument X and also a weaker argument Y. Simply rebut Y and then say the opponent has made a weak case.

Failure To State:

if you make enough attacks, and ask enough questions, you may never have to actually define your own position on the topic.

Argument By Scenario:

telling a story which ties together unrelated material, and then using the story as proof they are related.

Affirming The Consequent:

logic reversal. A correct statement of the form "if P then Q" gets turned into "Q therefore P".

Appeal To Complexity:

if the arguer doesn't understand the topic, he concludes that nobody understands it. So, his opinions are as good as anybody's.

Argument By Laziness (Argument By Uninformed Opinion):

the arguer hasn't bothered to learn anything about the topic. He nevertheless has an opinion, and will be insulted if his opinion is not treated with respect.

 

[zenoonez]

Blue Dot what is wrong with making money? Why shouldn't someone who wants to help people by running a dispensary make money? Or why shouldn't someone who wants to make money do so by helping people by running a dispensary? If you want to use the Red Cross why shouldn't someone who is a CEO make lots of money? If they are good at their job then by all means they should make lots of money otherwise they would be donating their work for another person's profit. Why would he want to do that? What is wrong with proportionate pay for proportionate work? If the current ceo brings in twice as much money as the last one shouldn't he be able to negotiate for a higher salary? I think much of your argument centers on the idea that the people growing and selling mj should be martyrs and not capitalists. So again, what is wrong with money, making money, and mj all in conjunction?

It's not the number per se but the people running them. Open your eyes.

As for a realistic model of distro, how about massive collectives with mass security oversaw by the city/state with routine NTF/sheriffs inspections, growers info database, Ag dept inspections, city accountants, insurance, etc.

How about invasion of privacy? Blue Dot welcomes you to the police state! How about let capitalism take care of things. People who know how to run businesses will open well run establishments with professional workers, tight security, and if they grow they will have the same.

 

[prepress420]

Richyrich,
yes, you've copied and pasted the 13 fallacious arguments taught in logic and math classes and stretched them out a bit, but you did not quote your source.

 

[richyrich]

My take is that his gripe is that it was not the intent of the law: Prop 215; SB420; and all current case law. Prop 215 was never meant to turn into business ventures for businessmen. Saying, then how will people get their medicine is a false (fallacious) argument. I will point it out from the list I posted. All argument to the contrary does not negate the fact that the laws intent has been taken advantage of; gray areas and people exploiting loopholes.

Argument From Adverse Consequences (Appeal To Fear, Scare Tactics):

saying an opponent must be wrong, because if he is right, then bad things would ensue.

Begging The Question (Assuming The Answer, Tautology):

reasoning in a circle. The thing to be proved is used as one of your assumptions. For example: "We must have a death penalty to discourage violent crime".

We must break the current laws to meet demand for all the patients or they will suffer.