Seeking Critique on Vert Colosseum SOG concept.

[Anti]

Is there any way that I can put some kind of sealant on wood and just enclose the bottom shelf (the shelf the pots sit on)? then I could just put a front and back on each tier and caulk the seams (or whatever) to keep it from leaking, couldn't i?

Tell me the reason i don't wanna do this. Been searching and I'm seeing people on youtube building E&F tables out of wood and painting it and then caulking the seams. Any reason I shouldn't do the same? This would require much less modification of the design and wouldn't raise the cost much since I'd only be adding 1ft x 6ft boards on either side of the existing design.

Does this make sense?

Also...

instead of having 8 pumps, couldn't I use 1 pump per side and have the drain from the top tier feed into the bottom tier and then that drain back to res?

[edit]Ok. Wait. I see. the pump gets attached to the fill line.. which pumps water into the gutter system. When the pump switches off, the fill line becomes the drain line? Right?[/edit]

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

In a standard ebb & flow there are two bulkhead fittings in the bottom of the tray. They can be close together in an easily accessible location. The pump fitting is flush with the bottom. The drain fitting extends up as high as you want the water level to be. Timer clicks on ... pump within reservoir pushes water up the fill hose ... water flows out of pump fitting and fills the tray ... water level tops the drain fitting and begins to pour down the drain hose back to the reservoir ... water is now cycling through the system at a stable level within the tray ... timer clicks off ... pump stops pushing water up the fill hose ... remaining water now drains down through the fill hose and pump back into the reservoir.


Cutty's stadium design uses this ebb & flow system

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=199920



The system DHF is proposing uses the gutters as trays in one integrated unit; Two levels, both levels connected together with a rain gutter downspout draining to the reservoir. Two? pumps in the reservoir pump water up two? fill hoses to the far end of each level's gutter system. This water flows back down along the slight tilt of the gutter watering plants until it reaches the downspout and drains to reservoir. Water is continuously cycled until plants have had their fill. In this design the water doesn't rise to a predetermined level before beginning to drain to reservoir.

Since the pots have a close fit in the rain gutter, I think there is the possibility of debris clogging the passage on either side of a treepot. This could cause water to back up and spill over the gutter. Roots growing out of the pot bottoms could also impede water flow. It would be good to take a treepot with you when checking out gutters.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

P.S.

With DHF's design I'm having trouble conceptualizing how to have one continuous downspout here through two levels. If the top level drained down into the far end of the lower level, you could have one pump pushing water to the far end of the top level ... flows along slight gradient to drain down spout or hose to bottom level ... flows back opposite direction along slight gradient to reach drain to reservoir.

With a regular E&F you can have the tray perfectly level. Any water that doesn't drain eventually gets sucked back up by pots.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

In the standard Ebb & Flow, since each pump-fill hose is also the final drain-back for a tray, then it would be one pump for tray. If you had a two level coliseum designed to separate into two portions, then it would be four trays ( 2 + 2). A four portion coliseum with separate ends and sides is eight trays. The simplest is if you build it so each level is a solid unit, you have two trays, two pumps. A coliseum made of separate component units might be easier to build (possible to have no waterproof elbows which is a big deal) and can be disassembled for access, but then you have more trays, pumps and hoses. With a solid coliseum you're obligated to reach over the front stadium and across the center to access the back rows. It might also be too bulky and unwieldy to install in place.

Holding my 9 1/2" tall treepot to a tapemeasure, it looks like you could build troughs out of quality 1" x 6" boards (which are really 3/4" x 5 1/2") glued and screwed (exterior deck adhesive or urethane adhesive in a caulking tube). I'd paint with a penetrating sealer, let it dry good, then cover the wood with a rubbery trailer roof coating). This would be your basic structure.

The top board with the holes to hold the treepots would come last. If the inside trough bottom is the full 5 1/2" board width, the outside width of the trough will be 7". So the top boards can be made from 1" x 8"s (which are really 3/4" x 7 1/2") so the top board can overhang 1/4" each side or 1/2" on one side. Top boards could be easily changed if you want different hole spacings. Using 1" x 6" boards this size is just on the verge of comfortably holding one gallon nursery pots without needing the top board, if you choose to use this option.

So it's back to the drawing board?

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

If you build this thing with boards, expecting it to hold water, the fail point will be at the ends where wood really wants to warp and split. The end pieces hold this together and should be of significantly thick wood, a stable piece of 2" x 6" or better yet a piece glued up of separate pieces with their grain patterns mismatched so it can't easily warp. The ends of the side boards will probably want to cup and break the seal. It is best to place the side boards so that the crown is out. If boards are assembled cup side out then the edges (which split most easily) will want to pull away, breaking the seal. With crown out, the edges push tighter against the seal, and the center tries to pull away ... but the center is the strongest portion of the joint so it is less likely to fail.

Look at the wood grain, figure out which side had the center of the tree. Board edges bend away from center. The outside side of a side board should be the center-of-the-tree side of the board (crown out).

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Warp_in_Drying.html

http://homerepair.about.com/od/yardandgarden/ss/deck_board.htm

I can't say enough about the torx head wood screws with a cutting groove running the length of the screw. They're incredible. They simplify any job. POWER PRO all purpose wood screws. Ace carries them.

 

[DHF]

It`s not really that complicated rabbit....There would be either 2 smaller pumps rising up into the gutters through each "separate" downspout(1 for lower level , 1 for upper) with both levels connected by 90 degree corner fittings/elbows for a closed system on both levels but draining back to the 1 main rez.....or...

1 larger pump with both feed lines "t`d" off with 1 running to upper level , and 1 running to lower level......

The dialing of said system as I described would be how long it takes for the gutters to fill enough for the plants to drink sufficiently before the feed timer kicks off.......now....

As far as roots growing out of treepots impeding flow around the gutter , overfilling and spilling out just really seems like a physical impossibility since 2.5" treepots sitting in 6" plastic gutters has mega clearance for the juice to flow past and all around the closed gutters while the excess is draining back down the 3-4" downspouts for "overfilling/overflow" protection.......and yes Anti.......

You`ve nailed my explanation of what it takes ta dial the setup once everything`s in place....and yes you can DIY the troughs with wood for the plants ta sit in instead of plastic gutters and covering the inside of the wood troughs with pondliner , then installing 1 central downspout drain in 1 corner with everything tillted toward drain on both separate levels.......

If yas run outta cash and haveta dunk each of the 92 plantlets by hand the first run , just make sure yas feed more than less Bro.....

Good luck.....DHF..........

 

[Anti]

Working on the ebb and flow idea...

Working on the ebb and flow idea...

Here's where I'm at with the ebb and flow. It does require a slight modification to the design, but I think it will be worth it.

This would be one of the top tiers on the long sides.

What I'm using here is 2x4 for the bottom shelf and the front and back and 2x12 for the sides. This basically would allow me to flood the entire tray nearly to the top of each plant's individual container. By making it out of 1.5" thick wood, I'm hoping to minimize potential for warping.

The nice thing is that it will require only (1) 2x12 and as many as (3) 2x4s to make each of these, and the shorter ones for the front and back will require slightly less.

I can use a piece of plywood for the top "shelf" (with the cutouts) or I can simply take 2x4 pieces (3" or so) and screw them into place between each pot. (The space in the design is 1.5" between pots, which is the true width of a 2x4)

2x12s are about 11 bucks and 2x4s are about 2 bucks.

So 4 2x12s = ~$44 and 12 2x4s = ~$24 so about $70-$100 total on wood if this works out.

And it'll be pretty solid when glued and screwed and caulked. Also planning on adding the pond liner to the interior of each one.

 

[megayields]

Yeah pond liner might do it OR if you have a friend who is a good surfboard shaper he could "glass"that interior and put in a drain for you(?)

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Looking nice.

Unless the pond liner comes up over the top sides, the pots could hang up on an edge when inserted. Having the liner over-top the sides would complicate using the insert spacers, which would be a shame. Those 2 x 12s are heavy.

Very clean design.

 

[Anti]

Looking nice.

Unless the pond liner comes up over the top sides, the pots could hang up on an edge when inserted. Having the liner over-top the sides would complicate using the insert spacers, which would be a shame. Those 2 x 12s are heavy.

Very clean design.

My thinking is that the pond liner can be applied BEFORE the top level is added. So the liner can overlap the top side of the 2x12 and then once the liner is in, I can add the cut out shelf (or 2x4 spacers) on top of the liner.

 

[familystone]

anything new?

 

[StealthDragon]

any progress on this anti? I've been thinking about building a very similar design on a smaller scale.

I hope everything is good with you.

 

[Anti]

Ok, here's the update:

I'm in my new place and I'm putting together my final shopping list at the moment. I plan to start building before month is out.

I'm going to attempt to make it look faithful to the design but instead of building it out of wood, I have decided to use plastic gutters (which are cheaper than 2x10s or 2x12 or whatever and much lighter) with plywood cutouts to hold the plants and keep them from tipping over as they become incredibly top heavy toward the end of the cycle.

Expect progress and updates and pictures in the coming week or so.

I appreciate your patience and interest, I just want to do this right the first time, or as close to right as possible.

 

[familystone]

Sounds good. Awaiting updates

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

Sounds like some good changes to your plan. I look forward to this coming together.

 

[StealthDragon]

horray! I look forward to it anti

 

[ganjasuiteseat]

beautiful thread

 

[Anti]

ok. I had a slight set back in that I threw my back out and had to spend a couple of weeks off my feet in the land of physical therapy and oxycontin.

Good news is I finally felt good enough today to buy some lumber. The new place has an unfinished basement so I have to finish the section AROUND where my grow will be so that it is stealthier.

This project will take a little time but I promise you it is going forward and I hope that I will make it worth the wait.

Pictures and details will come soon.

 

[StealthDragon]

Sorry to hear about your injury bud,great to hear that you're doing better....

 

[HushemFlupskluk]

Good luck recovering man!

 

[Anti]

Lennon was right when he said "Life is what happens while you were busy making other plans."

Without getting into all the details... just wanted to report on my progress.

I've framed out the portion of my basement where the Colosseum will be and I've wired in heavy duty outlets to 12-2 romex into 20 amp circuit breakers. My lights and fans will be sharing a 20 amp breaker (so will have almost twice the amps/volts/watts available that they need.)

I just placed an order for:

(1) Can-Filter 33
(1) Can-Fan 6
(2) 400W HPS Crop Master Ballast
(2) 400w Philips CMH vert bulbs
(1) 400 gph water pump
(1) temp/humidity controller

plus cables, moguls and various fittings for the E&F gutters.

Waiting on my shipment of MT2510s and working on getting my clone counts up. (Just nominated some new moms.)

Camera has a dead battery and I can't find the charger since moving. But I will find it (or use my phone) and get you some pictures once there's something worth seeing.

Gonna try to get the drywall up this week and then I can start building the actual table.

Wish me luck!