Frenchy Cannoli
Member
No I most certainly don't, I think that the terpenes loss come mostly come from the rupture point but I have no proof of it, it just does seem logical.
-
ICMag with help from Phlizon, Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest for Christmas! You can check it here. Prizes are: full spectrum led light, seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Reasons why dry sifted resin is the best!
- Thread starter PTDTTLHS
- Start date
No I most certainly don't, I think that the terpenes loss come mostly come from the rupture point but I have no proof of it, it just does seem logical.
Frenchy Cannoli
Member
I am new in the industry and had my whole "education" in producing countries, away from the western world for 20 years or so. I am interested to show the science (when there is) behind traditions (pressing with a source of heat, curing the resin before pressing and smoking, aging, the list is long).
I am constantly looking for serious literature but I am getting to the point where I have to do my own tests like Sam must have done when he wanted answer to his questions.
I do understand Sam position a little better, to be that far ahead in the game could be frustrating to say the least. You really have to be dedicated to invest the time and money necessary in sponsoring your own research at that level but not publishing/sharing/bringing people to the level/whatever you want to call it when you can bring the game to a higher level is something I don't get. I hope I do not sound judgmental, I am not one to throw the first stone, I believe that different people have different view and often enough good reason behind their actions. But I also believe in sharing what I know and that humanity survived because of millions of years of passing down knowledge from generation to generation. Evolution is the passing down of knowledge.
Paul who was at Indiana U, is an old friend, I was the one who supported his Grad student Karl Hillig's Cannabis studies with a grant.
-SamS
Last edited:
Rudy Brenneisen is a friend and colleague we collaborated on several projects.
-SamS
Frenchy Cannoli
Member
Bravo and thank you for promoting such studies
Frenchy Cannoli
Member
So you have been sharing after all, most certainly much more that you want people to know. Well I have some hardcore questions for you if you are interested to help a want to be teacher of the Lost Art of the Hashishin as I call my workshop.
Well if you want to help pay for the work I might then be happy to share the info with you, but where were you when I really needed the money for research? No one wanted to give me money for research, now people like you seem to expect something for nothing. The bottom line is I give what as much as I feel I can and still retain some info that I can use to help recoup my research expenses. I understand you have zero interest in helping me try and recoup my expenses and maybe make a small profit on my work, all you care is about the info and how it could help humanity, I understand your position on this issue do you have any understanding of mine at all?
PS Have you done any serious science research on Cannabis? Is it published?
I would love to see how you are sharing what you know to help humanity.....
I think many are trying to help in many different ways, it is the collective imputs that help change the future, I hope you make serious contributions, one warning, it cost me millions that I may never get back.....
-SamS
I am the same as I always was, your perceptions of me is all that has changed, you can ask me any question you want, I will try and answer, unless I don't want to say something about a particular subject. Or if the questions get to boring or have already been answered by me repeatedly.
So you do not have a class on hashmaking yet? Where is it to be? I am from Cali..... I moved here to Amsterdam just to be able to do legal research with Cannabis, another not so small price I paid.
-SamS
Hi Frenchy
As I get older, some things become increasingly apparant to me:
Some people do things. They are interested in results. They take their pursuits seriously. They seek out other people that do things, and are serious about results, and do things together. They don't talk about themselves a lot, the people they care about already know who they are. There are relatively few of these people.
Some people talk about doing things. They are interested in the appearance they create with the talking. Their purpose is to present an image that they think other people will like. They trumpet their achievements, and strut. A lot of times their "achievements" are "borrowed" from the people in the first category. This is the vast majority.
You seem to be the first category, that's good.
I think the problem was that although Sam is a textbook example of the "doer" type, you thought he was the "talker" type tooting his own horn. Far from it, his horn is locked in the closet. That's where serious people keep their horns. The other serious people they want to interact with don't need to be attracted with bluster and boast.
People like Sam don't come on boards like this very much. It is a waste of their time to interact with unserious talkers. I don't know why Sam comes here, but I sure am glad he does. I can't call Mechoulum with my questions, but I can come on here and ask Sam, and that is damn near as good. For non-chemistry questions Sam would be better, actually. In fact, I can't think of anyone, including Rob Clarke, who are more knowledgeable about the broad category "Cannabis" (I think Rob is close though), including all the professional scientists.
I think your best chance at achieving the goals of knowledge you have set would be to show people like The Skunkman that you too are serious, and have something to offer. If you really want answers, other doers can tell, and you will benefit from allying yourself with them.
Or, you can re-invent the wheel if you like, maybe you will see something that they missed.
As I get older, some things become increasingly apparant to me:
Some people do things. They are interested in results. They take their pursuits seriously. They seek out other people that do things, and are serious about results, and do things together. They don't talk about themselves a lot, the people they care about already know who they are. There are relatively few of these people.
Some people talk about doing things. They are interested in the appearance they create with the talking. Their purpose is to present an image that they think other people will like. They trumpet their achievements, and strut. A lot of times their "achievements" are "borrowed" from the people in the first category. This is the vast majority.
You seem to be the first category, that's good.
I think the problem was that although Sam is a textbook example of the "doer" type, you thought he was the "talker" type tooting his own horn. Far from it, his horn is locked in the closet. That's where serious people keep their horns. The other serious people they want to interact with don't need to be attracted with bluster and boast.
People like Sam don't come on boards like this very much. It is a waste of their time to interact with unserious talkers. I don't know why Sam comes here, but I sure am glad he does. I can't call Mechoulum with my questions, but I can come on here and ask Sam, and that is damn near as good. For non-chemistry questions Sam would be better, actually. In fact, I can't think of anyone, including Rob Clarke, who are more knowledgeable about the broad category "Cannabis" (I think Rob is close though), including all the professional scientists.
I think your best chance at achieving the goals of knowledge you have set would be to show people like The Skunkman that you too are serious, and have something to offer. If you really want answers, other doers can tell, and you will benefit from allying yourself with them.
Or, you can re-invent the wheel if you like, maybe you will see something that they missed.
Frenchy Cannoli
Member
When you spent years in traditional hash countries learning your skills what did you do with the products that were the results? Did you give them away for free to bring people to a higher level? Why not? I am joking, I know why, for your living, yes? I also have to live.....
I actually did with most of it most of the time but in any case comparing scientific studies and Hashish made in producing countries is quite irrelevant to say the truth.
I do not know you Sam so my perception would be hard pressed to change, on one side you say that you do not share knowledge and on the other you give example of what you did. I am trying to follow the conversation that is all.
My first class will be at Bud & Roses next month and at Area 101 (Mendocino) in August, working to organize some in Colorado and Washington as well.
I actually did with most of it most of the time but in any case comparing scientific studies and Hashish made in producing countries is quite irrelevant to say the truth.
I do not know you Sam so my perception would be hard pressed to change, on one side you say that you do not share knowledge and on the other you give example of what you did. I am trying to follow the conversation that is all.
My first class will be at Bud & Roses next month and at Area 101 (Mendocino) in August, working to organize some in Colorado and Washington as well.
Frenchy Cannoli
Member
Thank you Mofeta, you do sound a "little" condescending but it feels sincere so I appreciate nonetheless.
Also I do not want to reinvent the wheel, actually the total opposite is my goal, to show the science behind the traditions and the best chance I have at achieving the goals of knowledge is by studying and educating myself, nothing to prove to others but always everything to prove to myself. I was raised that way.
Also I do not want to reinvent the wheel, actually the total opposite is my goal, to show the science behind the traditions and the best chance I have at achieving the goals of knowledge is by studying and educating myself, nothing to prove to others but always everything to prove to myself. I was raised that way.
FC,
The work you did was labor that should be rewarded, the same with my work. Work is work to me, science or not.
Have you published any science articles yet? I would love to read one.
If not, do you have anything about Cannabis you have authored?
Have you done any research yet? What? What will you focus on first? Do you have deep pockets to pay for the research?
Good luck, I will try and answer questions and say if it is just my opinion or based on R&D by myself or others.
-SamS
The work you did was labor that should be rewarded, the same with my work. Work is work to me, science or not.
Have you published any science articles yet? I would love to read one.
If not, do you have anything about Cannabis you have authored?
Have you done any research yet? What? What will you focus on first? Do you have deep pockets to pay for the research?
Good luck, I will try and answer questions and say if it is just my opinion or based on R&D by myself or others.
-SamS
DrySiftWizrd
Member
Frenchy most of what I tried to convey comes from this conversation that's going on.
I know i'm younger but I had read most of this before.. as far as sift goes, it's a different game I think. You have said you've never checked the stuff you made under a scope.. and when we are talking 'science' it seems you'd have done something as simple as acquire a $50 usb scope to take a peek..
I know i'm all about 'purity' and not focusing on 'quality' in your opinion, but i'd for sure say the opposite. Much of what I *know* came from reading Sams stuff on other sites over the years, on here, and talking through PM. I have always strived to be at least -in the ballpark- when talking about this stuff.. nobody is perfect obviously, and nobody can know everything, but we're working on having a good collective of knowledge..
I def. would love to hear anything and everything that comes of this conversation and further into the lab.. I know i'm not alone lol.
Do either of you remember 'Genesis'? A medical research facility that was run out of Petaluma back around 1998?
I know i'm younger but I had read most of this before.. as far as sift goes, it's a different game I think. You have said you've never checked the stuff you made under a scope.. and when we are talking 'science' it seems you'd have done something as simple as acquire a $50 usb scope to take a peek..
I know i'm all about 'purity' and not focusing on 'quality' in your opinion, but i'd for sure say the opposite. Much of what I *know* came from reading Sams stuff on other sites over the years, on here, and talking through PM. I have always strived to be at least -in the ballpark- when talking about this stuff.. nobody is perfect obviously, and nobody can know everything, but we're working on having a good collective of knowledge..
I def. would love to hear anything and everything that comes of this conversation and further into the lab.. I know i'm not alone lol.
Do either of you remember 'Genesis'? A medical research facility that was run out of Petaluma back around 1998?
Frenchy Cannoli
Member
I am all self taught and quite uneducated compare to the people you frequent so no I haven't published any science article or done any research by myself. I have no deep pocket either.
I am focusing on what is happening the first twelve to fifteen weeks after the resin heads have been pressed in a mass, I believe strongly in pressing which you do not practice as most people in the Western world which make it my number one priority.
I also want to know what happen to the resin head membranes, the resin and all its constituents when frozen and what the water actually does to it as well.
I am not going into cutting edge research, I just want to show what is behind traditional techniques, nothing ground breaking.
Frenchy Cannoli
Member
DSW, we did not carry scope in the 70 and 80's to check Hashish and Charas cleanliness, quality is define by smell and taste in producing countries. I really have to remember that one next time I Skype my friend in India, they gonna live it. You are a funny men.
Most of what I know come from my experience in those countries and the science behind is what I am looking for.
DrySiftWizrd
Member
Even a jewelers loup should have been available back then yeah?
You never experimented with those even? Kinda surprised.
Anywho.. I know i'm funny haha.. and I know you're after the science.. but in the end, the resin heads are what we are after.. and under the scope, even though I know you give me crap about 'purity', it's what we are really after.
THC is only produced inside the gland.. if you can isolate those glands by themselves, you will have a good product.
Obviously some better than others based on the grower/terpene content etc.. but pure is pure in the end *to a point*.
I do not intend condescension, and am sincerely trying to help you.
If you do get serious about doing science, you will notice how people that do science communicate to each other. In the arena of ideas, in the course of rational inquiry, where serious people work together for their mutual benefit, clarity and brevity are essential. You don't pull your punches. When you read some other guys paper, you are supposed to tear it apart, to figure out why it is wrong, and how to fix it. It can be brutal, really. But that is the only way that works. Results trump hurt feelings and egos.
So far when I address you, I am careful with my words to avoid offense where none is intended. It takes a lot longer to make my points and blurs their clarity. I am used to this because most people can't tell the difference between an attack on an idea, and an attack on a person.
I didn't mean I thought you should 'prove something' in order to gain approval from others, for ego. I meant that working together gets results faster. I don't know about you, but I find working together with people that are the best at what they do is both highly effective and very rewarding. Didn't you have some mentors in your life that really accelerated your progress in some area? Or a partner that made you smarter for the interaction with them? The best in any field, without exception, are selective in who they choose to spend their precious time working with, or take the time to give information to. This is not out of some pomposity or elitism (some do, obviously, sadly) but because it slows things down not to.
Working alone is cool too, though. I do a lot of that myself, but on the stuff that really matters to me, I take every possible avenue to speed it up, life is too short to do otherwise.
I loved "Frenchy's water hash workshop" on YouTube, (click).
This is not a scientific research, but a very good teaching material.
PS
Please help me understand, answer my questions in posts 96 and 99.
Thank you!
Last edited:
I lived in Afghanistan in 1971, I know quite a bit about hand pressing and other methods of pressing hash as well as many years in India and elsewhere practicing hand pressing and/or hand rubbed from plants for hash. I always pressed my unpressed Afghan resin before I smoked it, as I was taught, it did make it easier to handle and smoke. I had permanent horse shoe shaped calluses on my palms for years.
The main commercial reason they press is to make the bulk smaller for transport, and for preservation of potency as unpressed pollen will degrade faster then pressed if left exposed to oxygen, light, heat, moisture.
And many local smokers also often believe that unpressed hash will drive you crazy, while the local non smokers think any hash will drive you crazy.
I think they both are crazy and terpene rich hash is better then pressed hash which pressing does lower the terpene content. But I also believe to each their own, do what you like, what is best for you, taste is a personal thing.
I can store my unpressed dry sift resin away from oxygen, frozen and it keeps way better then a pressed piece, like has been traditionally done, but not stored in a freezer. To me pressing is not now needed and I never do it, except to measure how big a flat circle's circumference is of hash that I can press out of one gram of dry sift resin heads of a given variety? You can read a news paper through the thinest patties, and if cool they are brittle and shatter, warm they are soft and flexible, dependent on variety and resin head purity vs debris.
All that said, I favor you doing any research that could show superiority of pressed versus unpressed in any aspect even just taste.
I look forward to it.
-SamS
Last edited:
