Reasons why dry sifted resin is the best!

[Sam_Skunkman]

FC, do you believe terpenes modulate the effects of THC? Why? No science papers have been published that show this.
Yes I do and there is science paper on the subject actually, (if you are interested let me know). I am actually doing those research to back up traditions and prove that a lot of techniques used in producing countries for a very long time have a scientific foundation.
I am starting a workshop where I teach what I learned in producing countries.
It is not to be published per say, it is a teaching tool.
I did not contact Jeff Raber but I will.
I know that my water is full of terpenes, I use it to water my garden and the water still smell after a day or two. What I do not know and have not found anything about is where does the "leak' happen, I would imagine that it does mostly at the rupture point so that a lot of terpenes may come from the stalks and not the resin heads. I know that I am looking into details that seems unimportant but I have been studying resin glands, their membranes, the formation of cannabinoids, etc. in as much details as I could not only to further my knowledge to teach but to become a better Hashishin as well. When you know the material you work with at the deepest level your end product will reflect it and that goes for almost everything in life.
I would love to read your GC-FID terpenes testing which by the way can be call science if you went through 100 of varieties, you actually put me to shame I was planning to do that with a dozen or so and I thought I was dedicated.

Ok, send me the paper on how THC's effects are moderated by terpenes, I have not seen one yet. Only Arno Hazekamp's where he tried to prove terpenes modulated THC and had no luck.
I do not generally share my data with people unless they help pay for the work. I paid for all my terpene work.
I have started to share a bit more as I am all but retired and would like to see the work completed, but I never cared about publishing the results as much as finding the answers I was seeking.
As for "knowing the material you work with at the deepest level your end product will reflect it and that goes for almost everything in life." That only helps for quality if your end goal is quality, something I have not seen in 40 years of visiting traditional hash producing countries. Their focus is more product for more profits.
Westerners can persuade them to make quality over quanity, but if left to their own they will make quanity. You seem to feel different, maybe you met farmers/hashmakers that were visonary and cared more about quality then quantity, but they are few believe me.
I made better hash then any traditional hash farmer I ever met, using his plants. All the farmers said it was the best hash they had ever seen. But they would not even consider doing what I suggested as it would reduce their yield of 100 Kg dry plants to 150 grams of very pure resin instead of 2 Kgs of say zero zero in Morocco. That is how it is.
I have been to almost every traditional hashish producing country, made hash in many, I know the craft and trade very intimately.
I invented 99.9% resin head only hash as part of my studies.
You still have a lot to learn, but you are trying...

-SamS

 

[Anders89]

But they would not even consider doing what I suggested as it would reduce their yield of 100 Kg dry plants to 150 grams of very pure resin instead of 2 Kgs of say zero zero in Morocco

Sam that is so true. We get eggs from marocco and spain some even sieved for the costumer and its still not high grade hashish. As of now they have polluted genetics and alot of imported weed(wild sativas and small growops troughout africa are filled in trucks and delivered to marocco. They also store the weed in sheds and loose alot of potency there. The shaking seems to be mostly done with a screen a fitted over it and drummed into a bowl. Its also more polluted hashish from these areas. And the reason seems simple too much phosporous added to the earth makes it arid.
For example In afghanistan a U.N report said they had 70% more resin on their plants per m.3 than marocco

And europeans have a larger demand than marocco can cover so it shows in the quality being reduced. The hash price for high quality in Egypt doubled some years ago ( from 150 dollar to 300 dollar)

 

[tropicannayeah]

I will continue thrashing about seeking the answers to Cannabis questions that I am interested in.
-SamS

What are those Cannabis questions? That's probably a hard question, but it would be great to hear, in general terms about it.

 

[graham12]

Sam when did your passion for hashish start ?

 

[tropicannayeah]

Sam when did your passion for hashish start ?

I know that story..

the second Sam was born he rolled over and started sucking on what he thought was a nipple when in fact it was a tola of charas....and that my friends, is how Sam Skunkman started his passion for Hash-shiissh!

.

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

Ok, send me the paper on how THC's effects are moderated by terpenes, I have not seen one yet. Only Arno Hazekamp's where he tried to prove terpenes modulated THC and had no luck.
I do not generally share my data with people unless they help pay for the work. I paid for all my terpene work.
I have started to share a bit more as I am all but retired and would like to see the work completed, but I never cared about publishing the results as much as finding the answers I was seeking.
As for "knowing the material you work with at the deepest level your end product will reflect it and that goes for almost everything in life." That only helps for quality if your end goal is quality, something I have not seen in 40 years of visiting traditional hash producing countries. Their focus is more product for more profits.
Westerners can persuade them to make quality over quanity, but if left to their own they will make quanity. You seem to feel different, maybe you met farmers/hashmakers that were visonary and cared more about quality then quantity, but they are few believe me.
I made better hash then any traditional hash farmer I ever met, using his plants. All the farmers said it was the best hash they had ever seen. But they would not even consider doing what I suggested as it would reduce their yield of 100 Kg dry plants to 150 grams of very pure resin instead of 2 Kgs of say zero zero in Morocco. That is how it is.
I have been to almost every traditional hashish producing country, made hash in many, I know the craft and trade very intimately.
I invented 99.9% resin head only hash as part of my studies.
You still have a lot to learn, but you are trying...

-SamS

I have the rest of my life to learn, nothing better to do in fact and enjoying every moment of it.
The book I mentioned concerning terpenes is:
Marijuana and the Cannabinoids , Mahmoud A. Elsohly, PhD
You invented pure Hash as part of your studies, that is quite a statement Sam and a shame you do not share the journey.
As for quality in producing countries it does look that we had difference experience but I have seen your side of the story a plenty as well. People looking for extreme quality are rare and it goes for most everything in life.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I have the rest of my life to learn, nothing better to do in fact and enjoying every moment of it.
The book I mentioned concerning terpenes is:
Marijuana and the Cannabinoids , Mahmoud A. Elsohly, PhD
You invented pure Hash as part of your studies, that is quite a statement Sam and a shame you do knot share the journey.
As for quality in producing countries it does look that we had difference experience but I have seen your side of the story a plenty as well. People looking for extreme quality are rare and it goes for most everything in life.

I have the book, I read it all 7 years ago, what page is that info about terpenes modifying THC? Maybe I missed it? I saw page 7 on the bottom where one sentence says "casual studies of THC and terpenes have shown subjectively different effects then THC alone"? Or is there a real science article also about terpenes and THC? If so which page number?
BTW,
I have shared much more then most, I hope you leave me the right to retain a few of my own inventions?
-SamS

 

[SativaBreather]

But they would not even consider doing what I suggested as it would reduce their yield of 100 Kg dry plants to 150 grams of very pure resin instead of 2 Kgs of say zero zero in Morocco. That is how it is.

-SamS

not strictly true, my buddy who is a 70 yr old farmer/hash producer does PRECISELY that, gets 100g from 100kg, just places it on mesh and nothing more.

he has also made rosin pressed thru jeans using an industrial press

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

I have the book, I read it all 7 years ago, what page is that info about terpenes modifying THC? Maybe I missed it? I saw page 7 on the bottom where one sentence says "casual studies of THC and terpenes have shown subjectively different effects then THC alone"? Or is there a real science article also about terpenes and THC? If so which page number?
BTW,
I have shared much more then most, I hope you leave me the right to retain a few of my own inventions?
-SamS

The paragraph concerning terpenes and terpenoids is page 51.
I leave you the right to retain anything you want Sam, my apologies if I sounded critical about not sharing it was not my intention.

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

There is also
Cannabis and Cannabis Extracts, Greater Than the Sum of Their Parts by John M. McPartland and Ethan B. Russo and there is much more on the "Entourage Effect" discovered by Mechoulam and lately shown by Gupta on CNN as a prelude to Weed 2

 

[mofeta]

...John M. McPartland and Ethan B. Russo... "Entourage Effect" discovered by Mechoulam

Yeah these names are associated with the "new" idea that terps modulate the cannabinoids effect on receptors.

Do you know where they got this idea?

Sam is still at least 5 years ahead of the community at large's bleeding edge of knowledge on Cannabis. He used to be 40 years ahead, so us other folks are catching up, especially recently. Look at a seed pack from Sam's work back in the '70s, they reflect a deeper knowledge of Cannabis than most "Top Breeders" show today.

I consider myself fairly perceptive and intelligent, and like to figure stuff out. Some years ago, I noticed that all my best gear head wise also tasted and smelled exceptionally good. Some of my friends noticed this too.

I was starting to think about doing some experiments to investigate this, when I saw some info from Sam. Not only had he thought of it long before me, he had already carried out lots of experiments, and come to some really good conclusions.

How do we know that THCV is not psychoactive?

How do we know that CBD is antagonistic to THC?

How do we know that CBD is not what makes some weed "sleepy"?

Man, the list goes on, and on and on.

I am pretty sure Sam can call any of the people you mentioned above, at their home numbers, he knows pretty much all the big names in the "legit" scientific community, some are his close personal friends. They regard him as a colleague.

I'm not saying the man is infallible, but I give great weight to his opinions, as he is very careful and methodical in forming them.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

The paragraph concerning terpenes and terpenoids is page 51.
I leave you the right to retain anything you want Sam, my apologies if I sounded critical about not sharing it was not my intention.

I looked at page 51, its the first page in chapter 3, about chemical fingerprinting, not terpenes and terpenoids, unless my hard cover book is different then what you have?
No problems about intention.
-SamS

 

[DrySiftWizrd]

Not sure if i'm allowed to post links to other forums, but if you google 'terpenes mysteries ?' there is a good thread that should come up from '09 that has some nice information.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

"John M. McPartland and Ethan B. Russo... "Entourage Effect" discovered by Mechoulam."

All good friends for a long long time. More then a decade ago I told John, Ethan and Mechoulam all about my work with terpenes and THC, as well as predicting to them all for years before the work, that terpenes would modulate THC effects. All of Johns and later Ethans writing about terpenes have been influenced by at least my opinions until I had the proof to prove I was right. They all agreed it was a fact when I explained the work to them. 12 subjects, Double blind samples, weighed samples with 25 mg THC/and a single terpene weighed on a scale with .01 accuracy, 100 question Organoleptic survey before and after the single test a day. All vaporized with a volcano.
These 3 guys are all top notch researchers, I have known and worked with them for decades.
-SamS

 

[DrySiftWizrd]

Sam you are basically the reason why I am so high (lol) on dry sift. After reading stuff over the past it was a no brainer to become good at it. Glad I did..

Cheers.. and i'm glad this discussion got started up again..

 

[jump117]

There is no set % of loss of terpnes from water sifting, it all depends on the variety used, how dried, how manicured, the terpenes present before water, how long in water, how proccessed in the water, how cold the water, how the resin is dried, all of these make it very variable, but the bottom line is way more terpene loss then dry sift.

-SamS

You observed loss of terpenes in IWE compared with dry sift. This effect is more noticeable in the water cure when after prolonged soaking in water completely disappear all the characteristic odors.

Some claim that the cuticle of the gland is waterproof and water can wash the gland only on the outside but can not wash anything from inside the secretory cavity and its resinous content has not changed after washing.

If this is true, then washed off flavors were outside the gland and were soluble in water.
Mechanically, dry sift and IWE consist of the heads with the same content, then the aromatic water-soluble material is located on the outer surface of the cuticles of dry sift.

Are they the same modulators of THC as terpenes in the resin in the gland, or is it just decorative and useless component? What are they called?

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

There should be more studies on the membranes, everything is happening through those membranes it seems and who knows how rich in compounds it is.
Check the following article, quite amazing what those membranes do.THC (TETRAHYDROCANNABINOL) ACCUMULATION IN GLANDS OF CANNABIS (CANNABACEAE)
Paul G. Mahlberg and Eun Soo Kim, Department of Biology, Indiana University, Bloomington, IN USA; and Department of Biology, Konkuk University, Seoul, Korea

 

[jump117]

They are from my favorite authors. I quoted this book here in 2010, click.

 

[jump117]

You allow that the water gets inside the gland and flushes any resin components?

 

[Frenchy Cannoli]

I looked at page 51, its the first page in chapter 3, about chemical fingerprinting, not terpenes and terpenoids, unless my hard cover book is different then what you have?
No problems about intention.
-SamS

I do not have a hard copy, I got it online
http://www.researchgate.net/publica...ocannabinoids_and_Other_Cannabis_Constituents
I could not find a date of publication