Questions for Sam the Skunkman on Hindu Kush Indicas

[ngakpa]

hey - something I've been meaning to clarify

(this is from memory, but) it actually says in Hashish! that hand-rubbing stops north of the Kunar River

so my going on on about Clarke wrongly saying they hand-rubbed in Chitral was just me failing to pay attention to the book... I blame the drugs

Cheers,

Ngakpa

 

[ShootinBudz]

LSD never caused a cultural revolution, it certainly shook things up a bit, but it's impact wasn't big enough to change the world.

Television has changed the world many times, Romania is the classic example, Ceaucescu was seen on television being baracked by the crowd during a speech live on television which shocked the Romanian people and showed them for the first time that others were also disgruntled at the regime and a spontaneous revolution began, all caused by television.

The fall of the Berlin Wall happened because an East German State official made a mistake during a live TV announcement and said that he had ordered the border guards not to shoot anyone who approached the wall. Within a few hours East and West had spontaneously met at the wall and begun to tear it apart.

I'll go with what the Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy sung... Television, the drug of a nation.

WTF british I have to call BS on that one. LSD is the most important thing to happen to humanity since we were building pyramids and temples in the andes. 10,000 years of darkness, then the light started shining through again.

 

[strained]

LSD is the most important thing to happen to humanity since we were building pyramids and temples in the andes. 10,000 years of darkness, then the light started shining through again.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


how old are you?

 

[land_0ver]

great thread Sam and others..THX a LOT!

 

[FOE20]

A wealth of Information indeed...gratzi to Sam and all who took the time...
Sam I have a few views I'd like to ask you on..You def have a incredible grasp on the reality of cannabis as you've been a big part of its life and vice versa...On land race and mainly the Afghanis and Kushes do you feel its possible/impossible to trace these or even stabilize cause of the amount of diversity between the types such as Highland vs Lowland in the same general region..Lets take the Mazar valley in general..Wouldnt this alone produce at least 3 types of varieties being up in the Mountain Highland - Mazar-i Kush type then a mixed Midland variety and also Lowland in the valley variety?..Wouldn't this be the same for any variety grown in a region that has multiple climates and elevations..
If not than Im just curious of what you feel is the difference between lets say a Highland Afghan vs Lowland Afghan,,and same in the Kush family..
Also how would this affect other varieties such as Thai and Africans..

Anyway much thnx for any input and this would just be a few of many questions but to me quite pertinent..Hope some day to try your work instead of getting strung along by wana be's...Thanks for all your view, dedication and passion for the plant man..its priceless..
FOE20

 

[killerhydrovzla]

How´s the kush in TH Seeds? Where is it comming from?

 

[mriko]

Lets take the Mazar valley in general..Wouldnt this alone produce at least 3 types of varieties being up in the Mountain Highland - Mazar-i Kush type then a mixed Midland variety and also Lowland in the valley variety?..Wouldn't this be the same for any variety grown in a region that has multiple climates and elevations..

Mazar valley ? nope nope, Mazar e Sharif is not in a valley, neither in Mountain area. This is desert land ! about 500m elevation or so if I remember. If you go to nearby Balkh or Shebarghan you'll find out people grow different strain although same elevation and climate.
Can't say much about th Afghan side, But from what I've observed in Pakistan's Hindu Kush you'll find plenty of different phenotypes (both indica and sativa) at a same elevation with some areas having a dominant pheno. I haven't seen any wild plants growing above 2300-2500meters elevation. Cultivated plants are found up to 3300-3500meters elevation.

Irie !

 

[FOE20]

gratzi mriko and Im no expert on the reghion but trying to understand its varieties is very hard..Lots of variation thru these regions..
What are the chances that nothing was smuggled anywhere except thru the ass of a Bird who happen to eat a seed of some Thai in the far east and flew over these regions and dropped a load and created a new variety...I was going more by this view where the Mazar_i_sharif does have a mountain range to the SW as shown in the pic..
Theres also this thread which shows a more lowland lookin plant which is about the match to a 20th gen cut I had of Mazar-I-Sahrif HIndu Kush outa Oreg in mid 90's..My goal is to figure out how to find this in the mess of genetics avail today..
FOE20

 

[muddy waters]

But from what I've observed in Pakistan's Hindu Kush you'll find plenty of different phenotypes (both indica and sativa) at a same elevation with some areas having a dominant pheno.

Mriko, I don't know if anyone's asked you this before, but I'd like to know something:

When travelling through these areas, were you able to converse with any of the growers? I assume they speak only Pashtu/Urdu primarily... But I would love to know if you had any first-hand information about breeding procedures and lineages. Specifically I would like to know if males are ever selected, or how seed crops are produced, or lines refined. Is this a priority? Are males typically pulled for sinse crops or is that not a priority for hashish production? With the considerable timespan of cannabis cultivation in these regions, I would think there are some very peculiar and particular practices surrounding cultivation, ranging from scientifically backed to purely superstitious. Can you elaborate on any of these that you may have encountered, especially with regard to intentionnaly producing seeds?

 

[mriko]

What are the chances that nothing was smuggled anywhere except thru the ass of a Bird who happen to eat a seed of some Thai in the far east and flew over these regions and dropped a load and created a new variety...I was going more by this view where the Mazar_i_sharif does have a mountain range to the SW as shown in the pic..

None, that's not a migratory route for birds from South East Asia as far as i know and it's too far away for them to keep it that long intheir guts I think. Don't need to go that far to find tall thin-leaved sativas (is it what you mean by lowland strain ?). Islamabad is a huge field of wild ganja and potahar plateau around is full of it.
Cannabis migrates mostly with human beings actually, and the area whichis debated here have sen thousands of years of invasions and migrations of people using the plant.

Yes South West of Mazar is the Hindu Kush range, but it's not that close.

Muddy waters, unfortunately I haven't been able to meet that much growers. Only in 2003 in Yarkhun valley I could meet one and visit a private garden (where seemingly there was no selection done). Second time I been there in 2004, with goal of having longer meetings with growers for indept study, I was hit on the first night by some weird ailments which send me straight back to hospital in Mastuj. I was simply expelled by the local fearies eheh...
Two last journeys I unfortunately had very little time for cannabis research due to being there for business purpose which took me most of my time.

But the plants I picked seeds from in Yarkhun were fully seeded. Also I got seeds from a Laspur plant, a pile of drying one, seized by police, an all buds were packed with seeds. So makes one to suppose they let the males. I don't know if they select those. But seeds are also in source of food in those mountains and I don'tknow, if selection settles in, which one comes first. for hash or for food ?

Irie !

 

[FOE20]

But the plants I picked seeds from in Yarkhun were fully seeded. Also I got seeds from a Laspur plant, a pile of drying one, seized by police, an all buds were packed with seeds. So makes one to suppose they let the males. I don't know if they select those. But seeds are also in source of food in those mountains and I don'tknow, if selection settles in, which one comes first. for hash or for food ?

well as a food was the Idea mriko
so maybe goats or chickens?...Its still seed...I would think there was allot of goods trades in that entire region..they been swappin hash for centuries ya know..lol...its all good tho..I'd like to take a trip to those regions but know for a crackah like myself its not a good idea in these times..or over the last 20yrs..btw Mriko or Sam..Have you ever been thu India?....mainly some of regions below as I have some seed from there..thnx for any input..
FOE20
-Punjab near Fridkot/Moga
-Punjab near Amritsar - close to the Sikh Golden Temple
-Kerala - south India
-Manali (Kasol actually. it's a about 1hr hike before manali. IMO this is where the really dank hash comes from)
-Chandigarh ( Foothills of Shivalik mountains. the begining of the Himiliyan chain i believe)

 

[mriko]

Greetings FOE20

well as a food was the Idea mriko
so maybe goats or chickens?...Its still seed.

nope nope, this is food for humans ! Mostl during winter time, highly energetic and brings warmth to the body. Flour is made out of the seeds and usually mixed with some soup. Or in hunza they make a paste by mixing and crushing together cannabis seeds, almonds, dried apricots and honey, must be pretty yummy !

I would think there was allot of goods trades in that entire region..they been swappin hash for centuries ya know..lol...its all good tho..

Indeed, for the area I've visited (Chitral/Yarkhun), there used to be charas caravans coming from Yarkand, towards Kabul. And it's a branch of the Silk Road as well, so there has been loads of trade in this region indeed. I remember that first time I was thre I enquired about the origins of the cultivated hash strains, I had two different versions : one saying they come from Badakhshan (local ruler was linked to the Chitral Royal family), the other from Kashgaria (Kashgar/Yarkand area).

I'd like to take a trip to those regions but know for a crackah like myself its not a good idea in these times

you should go ! So great area, beautifull and very friendly people !

btw Mriko or Sam..Have you ever been thu India?....mainly some of regions below as I have some seed from there..thnx for any input..
FOE20
-Punjab near Fridkot/Moga
-Punjab near Amritsar - close to the Sikh Golden Temple
-Kerala - south India
-Manali (Kasol actually. it's a about 1hr hike before manali. IMO this is where the really dank hash comes from)
-Chandigarh ( Foothills of Shivalik mountains. the begining of the Himiliyan chain i believe)

For sure Sam went there ! There must be a thread with pics of his journeys around here, or was it at OG Sam ? Ach, I'm afraid it was...
I've been also, several time through Punjab and Amritsar, but that's not my area of predilection, you chould check this thread here about Punjab : http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=90718

Not been to Kerala, neither Chandigar. Been to Kasol in Parvati valley (Parvati strains are much different than those from Manali, different valleys !).

Irie !

 

[FOE20]

much thnx mriko....I ask cause most of the seed looks fine..One type is very grain looking and not very canna looking at all..I just dont want to get a bunch of Hemp going ya know..heheh..I posted up in that link you gave also..very kewl..that would be a wonderful trip to take...anywhere outa the States is better than this shit here...least in the butthole of the midwest..
FOE20

 

[Guest]

SAM HOWS THIS AFGHAN LOOK BUDDY!!!!!!!!!!!!

SAM HOWS THIS AFGHAN LOOK BUDDY!!!!!!!!!!!!

She is my prize bread 6 month ganni................

You may have seen it but i thought folks would be amazed!
THis is pro outdoor weed bread for strenght and potency,
plus weight an VERY SHORT NODES resulting in a FULL GANNI..
Long term but worth it,one smell of this TART beast an thats it!!!!!

 

[Geronimo]

She is my prize bread 6 month ganni................

You may have seen it but i thought folks would be amazed!
THis is pro outdoor weed bread for strenght and potency,
plus weight an VERY SHORT NODES resulting in a FULL GANNI..
Long term but worth it,one smell of this TART beast an thats it!!!!!

Lou that Tree look wonderful. That bad Girl could give you some shade on a hot summers day.

 

[Guest]

Haha shade is what i need now!

Freaking HOT enuff yet folks,it is here..
That baby is priming up fox tailing an frosting!!!
Possibly a pound...

 

[FOE20]

wow Lougrewl...I'll take 2......heheh...fab look ghanni brah....bred for strength and potency...this sound proper sir...hows she smell?...taste?...got more notes?..hehe..where is this avail or you make any hybrids?...you kno wthe basic questions..hehe..great lookin plant n stay kewl man..
n yes its hot as satans crack atm....
FOE20

 

[deadzombies420]

Nice!

Nice!

Good job Lou.Nice yiled to go along with that potent,dank nug u got there.



J-uana

 

[Guest]

The difference between California and Australia was simple, Calif had Cannabis seeds from the world over, Australia did not, until the seeds started being sold internationaly after the 80"s. Also in 1970 the population of Australia was 12.5 million while the population of just Calif was 20 million. How many Australians were growing seeds from Columbia, Mexico, Central or South America? Africa? Middle East? Asian seeds yes, great Thais yes, but not from everywhere in the world, because importers took the best products to where the makets were biggest and the prices highest. That was California or the East coast. How much Mexican, Columbian, etc were imported into Australia in a year? About the amount that gets imported into Calif every day.
I don't live in California any more but I have no doubt where it started for many, California.

-SamS

with sufers came the weed....as aussies and barneys from cali would float around chasing waves here in Hawaii strains would fall out of there pockets~Damn hippies

the endless summer chaser spread the herb far and wide in the 60z 70z,and were usaully the ones buying and smuggling it

Sorry for the offtopic SAM this is a Hawaiian cube,you eat this an talk to GOD.




Believe me you DONT wanna eat to much go with an inch of a fresh stem and work up if you like from there!

Now back to the Topic maybe folks!

LOL we used to get kfc buckets full of them off.....coconut tree farms..splattered with cow shit......................stuff kills your liver

3-4 and your good to go str8 out the shit,,,,,,,

good read 23 pages in one night ......My eyes hurt

 

[FOE20]

Sam I need your view sir....

Sam I need your view sir....

masta Sam I need a view from you on this subject brah..

After 4+ years Ive finally brought myself to the conclusions your about to read...I left the commentary in there to give you the whole picture as I'll stand by this and cant wait for dispute from Nevil, Shanti, Sam, MrSoul to name just a few...So kick back and enjoy the ride as it was a great one but unless I missed something this code is a s good as Broke...

The Beginning of it All..Afghani, HinduKush, HashPlant and the Infamous Northern Lights - NL#5
__________________________________________________
the Latest Developments................

not a prob Deeker..Im learning just as much as any really...and thats the best part is learning..and actually it looks like the #2 as the #1 was said to be a Single Cola Plant..#2 was said to be Pine Tree Shaped which is what you show..

Northern Lights 1 was a single stalked, compact plant with a moderate Afghani smell. No one offers this classic version at this time. A strong plant and buzz.
Northern Lights 2 was a sturdy, pine tree shaped with a musty and piney odor. Dutch Passion (Oasis) and THSeeds (Closet Queen) currently offer versions.

-------------@--------------------@-------------------@-------------
and on that note....Its time for me to say a few things Ive held back on and this forum is prob the Best out there so heres the place I wana lay it down...
From Sensi Seeds Hash Plant descript..

This precious Afghani is descended from one of the finest hash-making cultivars ever brought from the Hindu Kush to the west. Cannabis strains known generally as hash plants are found throughout the countries that border these mountains, but very few have the pedigree of this Hash Plant - a living definition of the stocky, chunky, beautifully sticky Afghanica genotype. The direct ancestor of Hash Plant was developed in the Northwest USA and came to Holland as a few carefully-transported female cuttings.

this is for all but mainly brutha Loran...who opened my eyes and this break down my just be asumtion but from all the Afghans, HPLants and the pure HinduKush I know for a Fact Ive seen and experienced Personally this is hard to refute..

OK, I've kept quiet but here's how I remember the NL series:
NL#1 = Afghan ibl
NL#2 = Hindu Kush x Thai (hmm..kush..)
NL#5 = NL#1 x HP
NL#9 = NL#1 x (White Widow x Durban)
Peace, Loran

Well folks I had a epiphany last night...after lookin at this fukin strain for all this time it came to me..and the few quotes is in a way opening a huge door in my thought process..Notice these lines...
"brought from the Hindu Kush to the west["...were talkin the Mazar range I'll bet my happy ass on it now..but you see that special word??..""Pedigree""
If it was a Ped it was Inbred or Out crossed prior..
now lets move forward..
""pedigree of this Hash Plant"" ..HashPlants..hmm Afhgani Black ..hmmm....""stocky, chunky, beautifully sticky Afghanica "Genotype".""...Genotype not Phenotype..
""The direct ancestor of Hash Plant was developed in the Northwest USA and came to Holland as a few carefully-transported Female cuttings""
This to me was the Trade mark HashPlant not NL..and in turn Im saying that the Original HashPlant is a descendant of the Orig NL lines...Thats right..Read it and weep..not only that..I also feel at this point our most Prized and Treasured Lines came from this with wonders such as these
Afghani #1 (pure IBL)
Hindu Kush - the Original "Mazar I sharif"
HashPlant - was the First ever Hybrid created from the Afgan x HKush(aka Outcross of Afghan to initialize IBL and also created this base Perfect hi-breed..
but all from a handful of Original Land Race from the Afghan /Hindu Region....So Im sayin that all these were the Orig Parent Lines..
Landrace Hindu / Afghani (Both Lowland and Highland..Highland was Reefermans trip to the Kush range..so take all that in and now lets look at the whole picture..
What is a IBL?...what was Used in the NL lines?...."Aghan" was Pure and Needed to be Inbred to Create Afghani #1 IBL pure...but it still needed the Putcross..This is where the Hindu came in..I feel the Hindu was the Male in the F.1' gen of the orig NL line..This created HPlant....From there these Incredible Mothers were divided up at some point but we still would have from this work....
Afghan pure somewhere and a IBL < this was the Power
HinduKush pure from Seed < this was the Flavor
HashPlant (trademarked) orig Hybrid of these 2 parents
So in all actuality Im suggesting that a simple Hybrid was made..From the F.1's it created we have a list of others as the Cuts or Moms were then moved and out crossed even more..But also Inbred to the Afghan again to Create...
the IBL Afghani #1..
next came...
Hash Plant (trademark)

and the rest..Im still workin out...but Thai hasn't fit yet and I'll still bet it was never part of the Original Parent Line..It may have been inbred later and yes I could easily see a Afghan x Thai at some point..But actually I feel the hybrid for that is (Afghan/HKush)Afghan F1. or the HashPlant x Thai..
Thats bout it for me on this so far and where I rest my case atm..I hope it opens the thought of others as it keeps me awake on many occasions..heheh..Stay Sane but Grow Mad!..
FOE20

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
yo masta Loran...man I'll tell what else showed me the light after you had listed your thoughts on the NL line..Instead of going to NL to define this lets look at the parents one more time thru the eyes of the Seed Co's..and what I found was damn near exactly what I felt..
in most Guides Afghan is listed as..and the way form/color is described is right on point..
Afghani #1 - "Big , Dark Indica Leaves..sturdy Stem, High Yield...
Won 94 Harvest Cup..
Theres no Parent to Afghan #1 or what Im saying is the IBL that most of us know..
Now heres where I found something....
Sensi's Hindu Kush - Pure Kush originally from Afghan/Pakistan "mountain" region..

This leads me to believe that both the orig Afghan Pakistan valley one (what I call a lowland dry chalky Afghan) was bred to seed of its cousin HinduKush as said "found in the Mountains thus Highland variety..I'll even guess
Afghan x Hindu Kush - this crated the base HashPlant line and others including NL..

Now what did the Seed Co say about HashPlant?...and here it comes spelled out for all of us..
Sensi's HashPlant - "Indica" cross of 25% NL#1 x 75% ...yup you know it..Hash Plant!!!!!!................Meaning the Hash Plant Was established only After the original Hybrid was created..whats NL#1 again?..Afghani IBL baby..
At this point I'll almost bet..
The Afghan was Inbred using the F.1 seed from Afghan x Hindu Kush..
Then to create HPlant it was Bx to the HPlant dom side when the Male was selected..The Afghan was continually bred into to stabilize the Afghan side...
Now I can see how they might of later used a Thai to make the gene pool more diverse when they were isolating the Afghan or Hash Plant phenos..Thai came in later or some think Haze and I'll agree Thai but when and how is a bitch..Other than that its all just 2 orig Landrace varieties bred and then phenos chosen and isolated..then inbred, outcrosses and hybridized...now thats that and almost every aspect I got...amen..
you know the Thai end ..that could be the NL#9 tho..
you'll also notice HPlant Hybrids from Sensi that have it as the Father...ala G13 x HPlant..(yea from??....Nevil/Shanti MNS G13 x HPlant..)...also the classic Re-worked BigBud or Critical Mass (....MNS descript of CMass - heavy Afghani x Skunk#1)..
Anyway you can basically back track the breeding from these 2 orig Land race breeds..

I also think the no# 135-A has meaning..as in the NL#5 could have been a isolated selection of the first round of hybrid work thus making it #135 in Series A..The Original Hybrid..

What also makes me very happy is back in the early 90's I received 5 cuts of a Mazar-i-Sharif Hindu Kush for a whopping $5 each...I do feel in my heart the cuts I had were from this orig Landrace Hindu kush and were as said and are...the Strongest Genetics ever used in the world of Cannabis at the time..
FOE20