Questions for Sam the Skunkman on Hindu Kush Indicas

[jimbroker]

Foe420: Nice hypothesis. This was the kind of discussion I was hoping to generate when I created this thread. (for some unexplained reason the mods changed the original author of the thread to spaceghost... I don't know if it is because of the Mississippi flag in my avatar or the "controversy" I created by asking simple questions of Reeferman). Modern seed companies are primarily ripoffs of others hard work that was done in breeding IBLs in the late 70's up till 1990 or so. I can't say this enough.... THANK YOU SAM FOR YOUR OPEN ATTITUDE REGARDING YOUR BREEDING PRACTICES AND FOR PRODUCING FINE IBLS!

Everything else on the market descends from cuts whose origins are rarely revealed. I believe this is due to the fact that the holders of these strains want to have something "special" and all the fame that goes with it but don't want to do any hard work. They take a shortcut and just obscure the original line it was derived from and pass out a few clones. Even novice growers can find a killer cut from seed company stock so this is not so hard to do. If the cut becomes popular enough, it takes a large breeding effort at a seed company to get a stable seed version of this cut. They usually have enough experience to pick out what is going to be the most compatible with the cut.

I wish that someone with the resources would take cannabis breeding to the next level and work on lines that are IBL for terpenes and cannabis "flavors" and create a genetic road map of flavor. The best breeders who are at the forefront of the cannabis breeding worlds seem to be doing this, examples include DJ Short's Blueberry and Reservoir's Sour Diesel. I think that everyone from the seed companies to the closet pollen chuckers (myself) are trying to make different flavors combinations with varying degrees of success. It is a complex problem of genetic inheritance that can't be properly done without the rules being figured out first. The person who does this will be the next Sam Skunkman or RC Clarke.

I appreciate your contribution to trying to figure out just what is out there and where it all comes from.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

FOE20,

To be honest I do not understand the question you are asking me. Can you make the question simpler?

And BTW, Afghani #1 has no relationship to, HinduKush, NL, Hash Plant, and G13 that I know of.

For example NL is not a pure Indica It is a hybrid unlike Afghani #1 or my Hindu Kush was, even though my Hindu Kush was probably not 100% Indica when imported from Afghanistan but I never out crossed it with anything unless I said so.
Sorry if this is not clear.

-SamS

 

[JJ-NYC]

even though my Hindu Kush was probably not 100% Indica when imported from Afghanistan but I never out crossed it with anything unless I said so.


-SamS

Is this the same Hindu Kush that Sensi used to make their Hindu Kush? Do you know the breeding of sensi's Hinu Kush? What about your Afghani #1? Did Sensi use that too? Their Afghani is a mix of 2 or 3 different varities, I beleive. Thanks for any info.

 

[FOE20]

hey Sam...Im just going mainly off of what Ive had, seen and experienced myself but I'll agree that Afghan is prob a Mix even tho its said to be a pure Landrace along with HKush in seed Co description..and I understand NL is a hybrid and Not a Pure as Afghan and HK are thats why I posted the statement that NL is "of" these 2..
But I've also asked you that question in this thread earlier as your thoughts on Lowland vs Highland varieties in each region..
G13 isnt in the post bro..I just used that to say that HPlant was a Male in other hybrids to show relation..In my post I basically say Afghan was inbred to itself along with HKush and from these came HPlant and other lines..which you have stated their not related...
But were talking the first or what I thought was some of the first stabilized genetics used as it says 20yrs of inbreeding as base figure on these strains..(mainly Afghan and HKush when we read between the lines..)..If these were imported Landrace to start with Afghan and Hindu Kush it relates allot to me as I know what they were like in the late 80's and quite in their prime unless they were watered down befor the 80's which I really doubt..What I had was strong and I know herb well enough to say that much.
I guess you answered my question which was are they all related..But my outline says that Hash Plant was a derivative of a Afghan x Hindu Kush (25%NL#1 x 75%HPLant) hybrid and I'll stay with that unless you know what happend with the orig Breeding...Are you saying you had the Original Aghani and Hindu Land race?..
Cause what I know of HKush I had as a cut and it looks exactly like LRaces Ive seen from the Mazar-i range and Paki valley...more so in the Mazar range but it also doesn't look like the strain Mazar and has more of a Indica form..and the Afghan Iv seen back then looks nothing like the Aghan of today..The guys I knew that had these strains had them for over 10+yrs when I saw them in the mid 80's..the HKush cut I got in the late 80's early 90's was already a 20yr gen cut from a pure HKush outa Oregon..So Im not just guessing on this as I grew them for a while back then also..
I guess if their not related than all Ive done is confuse myself even more so...Thanks for the info tho brah...stay kewl and be well
FOE20

 

[Pops]

Foe, how many Afghans and how many Kushes are there? Deep Chunk is a land race afghan but looks like a Kush. The DP strain Mazar is an afghan/Sk#1 cross. The real Mazar-i-sherif is 3-4 meters tall in its native habitat. The Sheberghan is 2 meters tall and comes from an area SE of Mazar-i-Sherif and Balkh. Are they both highland afghans? What are the lowland afghans? It is confusing to me to talk about afghan or kush as if it is one strain, when there are several afghans and several kushes. What are Breeder Steves Red and yellow afghans that he used for Shiskaberry?

I have Mazar-i-Sherif, Sheberghan, Deep Chunk, Pine Tar Kush and Hindu Kush. I guess I will have to grow them all out to find out the difference.



The first is Shebergan and the second is Mazar.

This is a Sheberghan, a Mazar and LUI.

 

[Rastanfisk]

Foe, how many Afghans and how many Kushes are there?

Don´t know if this help´s Pop´s, but I guess there's a LOT of Kush

"'For upon this road there is a mountain called Hindukush, which means 'the slayer of the Indians 'because the slave boys and girls who are brought from the land of India die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the great quantity of snow"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush


Peace

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Back in the mid seventies there were already several Kush's, several Afghanis, and several Indicas floating around as herb. There have been many imports of seeds from Afghanistan since then, so how many varieties are around including hybrids, who knows. Have fun rounding them up Pop's. There must be dozens.

-SamS

 

[mriko]

The Sheberghan is 2 meters tall and comes from an area SE of Mazar-i-Sherif and Balkh. Are they both highland afghans? What are the lowland afghans?

Actually Shebarghan is located Westward from Balkh/Mazar. I wouldn't consider strains from there as highlands as both areas are on a plateau that is only a few hundreds meter elevation, and climate there is rather on the desertic side. Mazar/Balkh/Shebarghan are kinda big oasis.

For highland Afghans, you need to go to Hindu Kush range (most of it is located in Afghanistan).

It is confusing to me to talk about afghan or kush as if it is one strain, when there are several afghans and several kushes.

That is why it is crucial that seed collectors give location of the strain they introduce to the canna-munity. Because Hindu Kush or Afghan doesn't mean a lot and when it comes to researching, then it just means nothing ! Be it Kandahar, Bamiyan, Panjsheer, Kunar, Mazar, Balkh or any other places, although all Afghan it's all about different strains, indica AND sativa!

Or take Hindu Kush strains, widely & wrongly accepted as typical broad-leaf indica strains. Hell, the Hindu Kush range is litterally packed with heaps of wild sativa strains, Chitral town has plenty of it !

X-18, Bubba Kush, PTK, Deep Chunk or I don't know what else are all claimed to be landraces from Af/Pak area. Well, great but from where ??? Why the hell have breeders kept the origins secret ??

By the way, Sam, what can you tell us about Pakistan's Swat valley. The village of Madiyan especially was a stop over on the Hashish Trail during the Golden Age and I'm wondering wether this valley could be a source of some "Hindu Kush" strains which might have been brought back to the West in those times. I was there in Spring 2006 and all the oung wild plants growing around was of the wide-leaf type. The trait is maybe even more pronounced that the strains cultivated in upper Chitral district. Alas the Swat valley is going through lots of fighting between local taleban and Pak army nowadays, which is gonna make further research a bit tricky, but are you aware of any role this valley might have played in the spread of our dearest greenest one?

Irie !

 

[FOE20]

Pops you know Im front seat on that work bro.....and I think it will prove allot...lets just wait n see and I'd say by pallet, lineage, effect and form you';ll get a good Idea of what the region has to offer in many aspects..I think your the same Pops from the other sand box so Im all about this..

danke Sam....was speaking of the ones the Seed Co's mainly were using and trying to link any part of that..or what you knew of any distinct ones back then..Also back then it was rare in my parts to gets top cuts but during the time they were making all sorts of new ones but I dont see this being the same case back in the 70's when it was labeled specifically Mazar-i HinduKush..cause there were no .OG's..or Mendo..or anything only base originals from what I recall like Skunk#1 of course...many props to you on that indeed..,but also after that your work spawned a grip of others like good gawd how many Sk#1 hybrids?...Prob the most hybridized line ever beside Afghani..But there were set solid cuts but maybe only 20 or 50 at best where now its thousands of cuts from Moms of hybrids that came from who knows where..which is what Im trying to work thru...

That is why it is crucial that seed collectors give location of the strain they introduce to the canna-munity. Because Hindu Kush or Afghan doesn't mean a lot and when it comes to researching, then it just means nothing ! Be it Kandahar, Bamiyan, Panjsheer, Kunar, Mazar, Balkh or any other places, although all Afghan it's all about different strains, indica AND sativa!

mirko I really dig what you say man...and so to the point brah..

Im sort of trying to reverse engineer the Lines by finding out how certain ones were created..Its a cut n dry thing..we either know or dont..word of mouth means nothing without docs or least a few pics and all the background possible which a True Breeder should provide..
Ive also set my next seed runs to be mostly Afghans and Kush and Ive acquired as cuts PureKush, pre98.Bubba(or whatever..)..Pink Kush(Reefs)...
From seed Im trying even tho the bad rep WOS Paki Valley, Nirv HinduKush, DNA's PureAfghan,orig DChunk, and later some landraces that a friend sent me from regions more tword Southern India..
FOE20

 

[ngakpa]

Mriko that's an interesting suggestion that many of the original Hindu Kushes which went on sale in some of the early seedbanks were collected from Swat - I had also ponder the idea of Swat or poss. Chitral --- basically somewhere on the Pakistani side, as where they might have been from... and had Madiyan in my mind too, as it was a big spot on the hippie trail then... it's a speculation which might fit with the aroma and softer kind of high associated with some of say the Dutch seedbanks' Kushes etc.

I haven't smoked anything from the Afghan Hindu Kush like the Logar stuff which is meant to have an insanely strong high (I was often being told that there is some Kabuli charas which is meant to make you literally crazy)

yeh as Mriko says, Mazar-i-Sharif and Sheberghan are not in the Hindu Kush range, they are beyond it... ethnically it is getting into more Turkic lands, although there are plenty of areas which are predominantly Pashtun... Mazar and Sheberghan are I think I'm right in saying flat low desert regions - at lower altitude - though the Hindu Kush and Pamirs are very nearby... climate-wise humidity is low and the summers are brutally hot and dry... the winters are damn cold, though not as extreme as the mountains... agriculture is by irrigation, so a regional problem is now inter-ethnic violence over land rights and access to water

Mriko has already mentioned many famous growing regions which can be grouped as within the Hindu Kush range: Khyber inc. Tirah and other FATA areas in the Safed-Koh subrange, Chitral in the high Hindu Kush in Pakistan, and then also arguably Swat... in Afghanistan there is Kandahar, and no doubt many many other regions - the much larger area of the Hindu Kush being on the Afghani side... a small part of the HK is also in Tajikistan

Helmand is an Afghani growing region which is also not in the Hindu Kush

geographically I think it is right to describe the Hindu Kush as a part of the Greater Himalaya, which also includes the Pamirs and Karakorams, as well as the Himalaya proper... right?




Mriko... btw I think it is right to say there are areas of Balkh province which are still pretty high - between 1000m to 2000m - where there might be quite a lot of growing, and which might be thought of as highlands approaching the Hindu Kush proper...

 

[FOE20]

I haven't smoked anything from the Afghan Hindu Kush like the Logar stuff which is meant to have an insanely strong high

ngakpa that sounds bout right brah...not sure bout the goin nutso part..it seemed more completely full filling every need rather than being so over bearing in the effect you couldn't handle it...But..theres the point of use where if a moderate smoker tried something like that I could see how the experience would relate to hallucinogens or prob more extreme physical effects rather than mental..I loved the stuff when I had it and was mainly a mixed effect that covered bout every aspect of my needs..thus why I pursue it so hard..funny seems a few of us have the same relative maps..heh..

Well I guess the convo and POV's are always gana be different but that why I'd like to see or here anything consistent..
Pops least has plants from these regions workin and we'll get a first hand look..I dont believe that the Strains or Varieties Back then are any different than what we get now beside the Base fact that they have been Hybridized and thats not what were talkin about...Hybrids will show Variation..Pures will not and were lookin for Pures...So its a matte of Growing them and poss outcrossing to see how thy compare to the Older hybrids that have been created using these distinctive Lines...Thats how I see it cause its all talk till I have the same nug I had in my hand 20yrs ago and I will find that mother fuker...hehehe...Heres a few Ive got to show where Im lookin..
Ortega Hash Plant..and to me this is Very Afghani and Not Kush...first give away?..."the Shoot"...and it sure as fuk aint a Solid Sativa as its only bout 2-3wks Bloom..Im guessing a proper 8-10wks to find the sweet spot..
The WOS PakiValley are still very young here but Im going for a 12-16wk window n them..
anyway it wont let me ul the Paki pics as somethin with my limits reached..so I'll try later..But to me Hindu, DChunk, OG, and quite a few others that have almost No Shoot are more Kush but because their in the Same region theres at least 2-3 varieties of Kush within the valley...Afghans are even a larger pool to wade thru but its a start..so we'll see...
FOE20

 

[ngakpa]

hey Foe20 - forgive my skeptical tone, but are you saying you have smoked charas from Logar Province, i.e. Logar in the Afghani Hindu Kush... ?

not clear to me how you would be able to do that or even know you were doing that without visiting Afghanistan - or indeed when you would have done that - I only say that as it's not not clear to me from your new post that you've got the key point here:

i.e. that most of the Hindu Kush mountains are in Afghanistan, and most of Afghanistan (about 2/3rd) is the Hindu Kush mountains

the implication of the posts above yours was that the western scene based distinction you are using of Afghani///Hindu Kush is not that useful or accurate -

the key point of the discussion thus far is that any serious breeder or collector should consider being open and accurate with where their strains come from if, that is, they actually know

hope this doesn't seem grumpy, it's just there was a bit of lack of clarity etc.

thanks,

Ngakpa

 

[FOE20]

hey ngakpa...nope Ive not brah and havn't said I have....and be skeptical..I sure as hell am..mainly about the real origins of the breeds..and to me thats the point..
What Ive had/grown/smoked was a Pure cut of a Mazar-i Hindu Kush that had no comparisons to any Afghanis at the same time..So thats where I get my perspective..I didn grow other Afghans cause my bro's did..and their Fathers...and their fathers..no one talked about it back then cause it was way worse than it is now..as Im sure you know well of if your at least 40 and older..which I am..but Im not saying I know what all these are like..Im saying Ive had Distinctive types and Im lookin for those within whats avail now...
What was around back then was a few Afghan types...only 1 or 2 Kush types that I recall..and then a list of Skunk types and then WW and Rhino which were really new breeds at the time compared to Afghans, Kush or HPlant which what Im lookin thru an want to know more about..as yes my Direct experience is limited as Im sure most of us cause I would never want to go there man..Its not exactly the tropics ya know..lol...hope I stated my view and not trying to say anything is anything..I just want to know what is Basically what,..nice n simple like it should be..even tho the subject is very complex..I have faith..
also to note Ive had nice selections of hash from age 12 and on so Ive seen and enjoyed the avr Afghan Blk with the gold leaf, the red which was weirdest hash Ive ever had..very grainy?..then there was always BlondeLeb, and so forth,...and then theres opium..weeeee
FOE20

 

[ngakpa]

ok, clearly a misunderstanding

what is this "Mazar-i Hindu Kush" you are mentioning?

as said above, Mazar-i-Sharif is not in the Hindu Kush mountain range, it is north, beyond the mountains, in a relatively low altitude and flat desert area as you will see on the map... if you click on the map I posted it is very clear what altitude Mazar etc. are at i.e. 500m or less

 

[FOE20]

ya know nga your map is way better bro...it def shows some points Im trying to get answers on..and I'll go into that more later but first the Cut I had and since Im half lit and its a good tale here ya go...
In the mid 80's I was mainly a guitar player(head cutter taught biker sons regional Angels,..)..and Chef, kids n all that happy horse shit..I had a older cat living in my basement at the time and we were both growing but from bag seed or there was as said a few options with Afghans or Skunks always..One day this 300lb+ dude walks in as he's a friend of the other cat, looks at my 60+yr old nylon string classical sits down as says..do ya play?...of course as a head cutter this is a strait challenge..and I accepted.. I played a bit and as I did he broke out a sac of the best herb I'd ever smelled..seen, smoked to this day and I was well versed in herbs, mescaline and real pre acetone "ether" base rocky roads...so he twisted up a monster fukin cone and we blazed it..1/4 into it I started loosing my scrooples and he picked up the nylon...needless to say after he handed me my head on my own axe I didnt care at all cause I was 3'ft deep in my lazy boy by this time from the effect..heh...
Now just for perspective and without saying to much he had played with Di`meola as a backup rhythm man..but he was fukin incredible with his fat chunky fingers destroying my girl like a choppin a tree..Jazz was his forte where Im more fusion/blues..but we got along great even tho he was least 15yrs older than me at this time..
So after a wk or so he comes by with a box of 5 clones perfectly rooted in 4"in containers just like from a nursery and says this is what we were smokin the other day..you can have um for $5 each as he was just wanting a few bucks to help his gas cause he was leaving town back to Oregon and had blown his wad..
I was already a bit anal about Canna at this point but didnt follow the commercial scene at all cause there was no need..
He told me it was cuts from a plant that had been in Oregon over 20yrs and was a "Pure Mazar-i-Sharif Hindu Kush" just like that...I never saw him again and 5yrs later I got popped trying to move a grow and lost it..I had never given cuts away back then as it was already a extremely chancy thing...we live n learn..
and thats the whole of it...

Now on your map and HinduKush vs Aghan and Hash Plants Im basically sayin I dont feel the varieties differ this much and we can at least verify what is coming from where..
I feel Afghan-HashPlant types come from the Paki valley on the south side of the range..And its lowland and is shown in lime green..500 - 0-
But Short Squat Kushes dont shoot for light that is closer if they are on a Higher Elevation and its more a Hindu "Kush" type than the need to call it a Mazar...If you note Mazar is its own Line and I dont think it looks or resembles anything like Hindu Kush...
Mazar-i Hindu Kushes I feel or am guessing to the North West side of the same Range but grow on the Highland ranges...As the varieties more more East from west they go from Mazar to Kush to Afghan types and then branch out again with influences from China and India...so..Thats what Im trying to distinguish..
I want to get the same map you have but bigger so I can see each part of the region better...but thats where Im at in my quest...
FOE20

 

[mriko]

geographically I think it is right to describe the Hindu Kush as a part of the Greater Himalaya, which also includes the Pamirs and Karakorams, as well as the Himalaya proper... right?

Ach, sorry but that's wrong actually. what is called "Greater Himalaya" starts in Ladakh, then goes SouthWestward through Nanda Davi til the Everest, that's all. The Greater Himalaya is only a PART of the Himalayan range. Karakoram, Hindu Kush, Pamirs, Tien Shan and Kunlun are associated range. More, the Himalayan range is mostly located on the Indian plate, while Pamirs and most of Hindu Kush are on the Central Asian plate (geologically, CHitral is in Central Asia).

But to me Hindu, DChunk, OG, and quite a few others that have almost No Shoot are more Kush but because their in the Same region theres at least 2-3 varieties of Kush within the valley...

what do you mean by no shoots ? no side branching ? I don't think it can be taken as a "Kush" caracteristic, at all. Under proper condition they grow like tree with loads of side branching. Which valley ar eyou talking about ?

btw I think it is right to say there are areas of Balkh province which are still pretty high - between 1000m to 2000m - where there might be quite a lot of growing, and which might be thought of as highlands approaching the Hindu Kush proper.

Indeed, but I was rather talking about the Balkh oasis where most of the production occurs.

Now on your map and HinduKush vs Aghan and Hash Plants Im basically sayin I dont feel the varieties differ this much and we can at least verify what is coming from where.. I feel Afghan-HashPlant types come from the Paki valley on the south side of the range..And its lowland and is shown in lime green..500 - 0- But Short Squat Kushes dont shoot for light that is closer if they are on a Higher Elevation and its more a Hindu "Kush" type than the need to call it a Mazar...If you note Mazar is its own Line and I dont think it looks or resembles anything like Hindu Kush... Mazar-i Hindu Kushes I feel or am guessing to the North West side of the same Range but grow on the Highland ranges...As the varieties more more East from west they go from Mazar to Kush to Afghan types and then branch out again with influences from China and India...so..Thats what Im trying to distinguish..

Afghan strains have several origins, depending on where it's grown. Mazar & Shebarghan most surely have central asian influence, those from Kandahar could indeed be related to those frown in Pakistan's FATA such as TIrah or Khyber (all part of the Pashtun belt). During my first visit to Chitral in 2002 I enquired about the origins of the locally cultivated strains and was told it was imported long time ago from Badakhshan. There could be some influence from Eastern Turkestan (Yarkand/Kashgar), through the old Charas caravans which used to go from there to Kabul through Wakhan corridor, Yarkhun, Chitral and Kunar valleys.
Influence from India ??? I don't think so. no trade or contact between the two areas, Hindu Kush has remained a pretty secluded area until recently, after Pakistan was born. before it has a mosaic of independent and often-feuding kingdoms.

The more I read this thread the more I think that talking about Kush type and Afghan type is just nonsense and that it should be dropped, considering that you can find both indica and sativa strains overthere. More, it brings absolutely no help to the expansion of the knowledge about the plant. it brings only confusion, mistakes, misinformation.










Irie !

 

[ngakpa]

yeh sorry, my mistake for misusing that term ("Greater Himalaya")

 

[FOE20]

Got a feeling this may go Point Counter Point with Jane Curtain n Dan Akroyd but I wont be calling anyone a Ignorant Slut I promise...lol.....

Mriko..."Shoot"...and "Shoots"...are 2 different things and Im sure your well versed in both I would hope...Im not talking "Shoots" with a "s" as in Side Branching I meant the Hight the Plant will "Shoot To"...or its Stretch or its Pre Flower Elongation.." Pending its needs or orig Origin thus Helping to Define Variety and Type...Also why I state these would be Highland Types as grown on Mountain ranges and Not in the Valleys which would be Lowland and have asked about Mid-land?..And I asked about the relation between Highland vs Lowland and everything in between and still havn't got much of a defining answer at all and makes me wonder who really knows anything...This is coming from Breeders who try and describe varieties they dont even have a true understanding of IMEO on some and from what I read on their definitions..
I also feel by not trying to decipher the lines or proper Origins than were doing nothing but taking the word of folks who over time have come to blurr more than the needed note or 2 just to entice the Commercial buyer...Not the true Canna Connoisseur as were not about Hype,
So if your saying its pointless for me to look thru Varieties or these types that I know personally and have no hope of finding what I had back in the day well Im sorry but Im much more optimistic than you brah..
I'll come to my own conclusions and if this is the wrong Cannabis Public Forum started as a Place to Define the Origins as the Thread States and thought that was the point was to Question All of It to begin with..
But now this is all misleading?..
for doing so than I'll gladly walk away as Ive never needed anyone to tell me how or what a Plant should be and I'll leave that up to the Plants...
I'll def say I feel a bit more open minded about the topic and dont feel theres been enough documentation to date and feel just the opposite of your point.
But I do value your comments/view/insight just like Clarks or any other view that at least has weight and credible reference and documentation..
btw what Plants are you showing?..a Picture is not definition without documentation..
also by the Term "Proper Conditions" I hope you mean a Enviro that is similar to the Origin of the Variety being grown right?..Which is the reason I personally run and Study 2 different types of Bloom Chambers with Sats in Lowland, Indicas in Highland but thats another story..

You know the funny part is allot of the Varieties I speak on were Hybridized In the States and thats been said since the opening...Not in Europe ...they were taken to Euro later and I'll tell you what the Original Cuts, Plants, Moms and all were Brought to the States in Seed form or whatever and then Isolated or whatever, Cloned and Hybridized versions were "Sent" to Holland but you dont think the Originals are still In "The Sates"?..I know quite a few are just as they are overseas still so to me their Origins are just the First step and Im trying to ask folks who were pert of the Hybridizing process to help define what was used and called what...Where it actually came from and proving these sources..Since we have no way of this then theres only 1 other way..By growing out the varieties and trying to define the Basic origin of certain distinct types within these varieties..And if thats to much to ask than I guess were not as smart as the Plants themselves..Which also acclimate and change as they are taken from one region to another and hybred along the way..But who am I and what do I know...Im def not giving up the pursuit of what I know to be true and will use this to prove the points Im trying to find answers to..
Maybe I'll just grow some plants and call them Kush or Afghan and that will be their definitions and if I post pics and hype them up maybe folks will take it seriously..heh.......sound familiar...
I'll even go as far as to say the Canna scene is a complete mess and as far as Im concerned its only just Begun to be Defined and in many cases really needs it...and thats the way it will Be for Me...I hope it means as much to others and folks who really want the Reality behind all the Smoke...

btw Mriko Im not saying anything is in Stone but that most will get you Stoned if its for real anyway....also your LandRace hot link is dead brah...
FOE20

 

[mriko]

Mriko..."Shoot"...and "Shoots"...are 2 different things and Im sure your well versed in both I would hope...Im not talking "Shoots" with a "s" as in Side Branching I meant the Hight the Plant will "Shoot To"...or its Stretch or its Pre Flower Elongation..

ok, well, then yes, when properly grown, "highland" Hindu Kush strains can easily reach 3 meters tall, not that short for indica, eh ?

Also why I state these would be Highland Types as grown on Mountain ranges and Not in the Valleys which would be Lowland and have asked about Mid-land?

But, is highland/mid-land/lowland really a suitable classification? If you consider lowland is grown in the valleys, what if the bottom of the valley is at 3000m elevation?

So if your saying its pointless for me to look thru Varieties or these types that I know personally and have no hope of finding what I had back in the day well Im sorry but Im much more optimistic than you brah..

Where the hell have you read that ? I never said such a thing ! neither thought, that's pretty interesting job you're doing and I can't wait to see the results. I think you're mis-understanding me.

But now this is all misleading?..

well yes, sorry but I do think that it does so because "afghan" or "Hindu Kush" is just not enough. Sure it's better than nothing, but that's not enough.For the sake of knowledge we need more accurate information about the origins of any landrace. The name of a country or a mountain range can't be enough to define a strain.

'll def say I feel a bit more open minded about the topic and dont feel theres been enough documentation to date and feel just the opposite of your point.

well yes, there's definitely some misunderstanding in here. I'm more than open minded about the subject and especially when it comes to Af/Pak area as it is this area I'm specializing myself with.

But I do value your comments/view/insight just like Clarks or any other view that at least has weight and credible reference and documentation..

well, thanks ! I don't have the diplomas and references Clark has, but at least I've breathed, eaten and drank enough of the Hindu Kush dust to have a small idea of what's going on in someparts of the range eheh...

btw what Plants are you showing?..a Picture is not definition without documentation..

yeah I was lazy, those are strains from Yarkhun and Laspur valleys in Pakistan, from seeds I brought back few years ago. I will take some time to complete.

also by the Term "Proper Conditions" I hope you mean a Enviro that is similar to the Origin of the Variety being grown right?..Which is the reason I personally run and Study 2 different types of Bloom Chambers with Sats in Lowland, Indicas in Highland but thats another story..

By proper condition I mostly meant good care and enough irrigation plus loads of kicking sunlight. The Yarkhun seeds were picked from live plants in a private garden which obviously could have been better maintained. Back in France I though I would hade the "textbook" short and squat indica, such as those who produced the seeds, but they eventually turned up as trees. I'm living further north and at lower altitude than Yarkhun valley, but that year was pretty special with deadly heatwave sweepin through Europe with temps up to 54°C in my garden, providing a better environment what what it should have been. I was confirmed the next year that in Yarkhun itself well cared plants grow same size. For Laspur seeds, I took them dry plant that had been seized by police. roughy same height and width than the one I grew.

you dont think the Originals are still In "The Sates"?

Again, I've never said that.

By growing out the varieties and trying to define the Basic origin of certain distinct types within these varieties..And if thats to much to ask than I guess were not as smart as the Plants themselves..

Considering the amazing genetic diversity and the importance of exchanges and seed travelling through the region, that's indeed a huge and difficult task ! eheh, yes it's a smart platn, just look how it has used us to spread all over the world !

I'll even go as far as to say the Canna scene is a complete mess

Yes it is...

Here a few more pics, of plants I picked seeds from. Pakistan's Yarkhun valley, 3000m elevation.














Hindu Kush sativa in Rumbur valley (kafiristan), 2000m elevation.













Chitral early sativa (pic shot late June)




Irie !

 

[FOE20]

well, thanks ! I don't have the diplomas and references Clark has, but at least I've breathed, eaten and drank enough of the Hindu Kush dust to have a small idea of what's going on in someparts of the range eheh...

thats a fukin great statement bro..and your indeed beyong me in direct expirience and I'll bow to that any day..Im sorry if I come off a bit brash or to the point as the post is me just talkin out loud..
man Mriko your great people an have me grinnin and really feel like you know the plants/region and stay involved and not only talk counter or argue points but make them damn well sir....I never was being direct to you per say when I say " Do you think"..thats speaking to all of us as a whole, as we are all we know, and were sharing that to reach or find some conclusions..I was gana break that post into a comment to you and then a over view of the points but just kinda kept goin...heheh..I ramble man and Im LAConf Medicated which this strain for me during the day is a bit heavy....
I'd def plan on stickin with it as know Pops and you will also..plus Im having some personal shit and I get a bit over done easy..
We were talkin on some of the Landrace seed I have prior in this thread an I'll be running those and very curious of your impressions as this all continues..Thanks again for your input and diplomacy..
Now let us grow a grip out and I'll find a map and come back at ya with a bit more info to compare..Im really up on Pops already having a nice line going and having your attention thru this will make it well worth the effort..its always casual and stay kewl brah..

(ps:....hehe..why cant I just shut up......here we go again...
I'll guess Indicas in Highland can reach 3m easy..I didnt or wasnt implying that I hope but we do keep them short in our enviros..I feel the Afghan HPlant can reach 12'ft and more so and is the Sat dom side of the variety..Where Kushes that in their natural region up in the hills would reach 6-8'ft easy and be Indica dom..all assumption tho..heh..
But you know I remember seeing the footage how the guys would walk thru the colas to collect the resins and roll off their arms/chest n bodies to make the hash ropes..In that footage the plants shown weren't 12'ft tall..So I always assumed that that footage was at a higher elevation..I didnt mean the 3000m mark as I was saying with Lowland of being 500 - 0 <-- meaning 500m down to 0 or sea level I thought...I feel Highland would start about 1000m and above and prob dates back to Herb growing Terraforming ancestors, Mayans etc..heheh.. lol...sorry Im way to medicated and just dont know if Im getting my points made correctly..I'll be back when I can make it easy to understand..hehe.. )
Im really wanting to talk with you on the first image in post #357 and #360..and the diff between these and the other more slim Sats you've shown...and I really dig your pics bro as they are def from where its really at..power to it
FOE20