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question for sam the skunkman on the original haze
- Thread starter bigherb
- Start date
Heh, that was my post....not sure why Santa Maria is being mentioned in this thread but it's my first grow ever and will definitely continue growing it when I'm back up and running. The smell,taste, and high is very delectable. Very easy to grow as well, only fed her an ACT once when transplanting and called it a day.
G`day L
The reason would be the Haze that this thread is about was originally an Colombian Seed grown in Cali .
When you mention incense in the smoke report . That ties in with the Haze from NYC .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
Ah ok, my apologies just realized I came off a bit pompous after reading my post. Well, I'm dominican and grew up smoking the "NYC Haze"/"Puray"/"Frankie"/"Piff". I've read all of bigherb's theory, I know Chimera released a hybrid, so did Matt Riot...
But the Santa Maria deserves it's own merit and not to be overshadowed by another local legend. As a matter of fact, if Santa Maria were widely available in the NYC area, I dare say it would contend with the Puray. IMO Puray is the top quality we have, and I'm reffering to the real Myrr/sandlwood/amber/frankinscense perfumy Haze.
cool to have you posting here Lesnah. 
cannabis colas (including seeded bud) are transported between different countries in sa. there are lots of posts about the migration of cannabis genetics to places all over the world.
what was the genetic lineage of the particular 'punta rojo' strain haze derived from?
there is also the issue of random pollen. the concept of pristine untainted landraces........ .
could some santa maria random pollen down in sa be part of the picture?
could some santa maria have been grown in colombia pollinated by punta roja pollen?
due to the terpenes santa maria gets mentioned as food for thought. santa maria is way too fast to finish (9-10 weeks for clone of planck cut ) to be considered anything but one piece of the puzzle.
haze genetic seeds were collected from bagseed and grown out by farmers, not breeders (haze brothers). due to bigherb's excellent work with samtheskunkman's input there is a strong argument that the bagseed female was of punta roja lineage. but, who was there down in sa to confirm that it was in fact punta roja?
catpiss, sandlewood, sage, frankincense coming from a sa landrace sativa deserves mention imo.
here's a photo of the foxtail santa maria clone in full flower:
^^ link
cannabis colas (including seeded bud) are transported between different countries in sa. there are lots of posts about the migration of cannabis genetics to places all over the world.
what was the genetic lineage of the particular 'punta rojo' strain haze derived from?
there is also the issue of random pollen. the concept of pristine untainted landraces........ .
could some santa maria random pollen down in sa be part of the picture?
could some santa maria have been grown in colombia pollinated by punta roja pollen?
due to the terpenes santa maria gets mentioned as food for thought. santa maria is way too fast to finish (9-10 weeks for clone of planck cut ) to be considered anything but one piece of the puzzle.
haze genetic seeds were collected from bagseed and grown out by farmers, not breeders (haze brothers). due to bigherb's excellent work with samtheskunkman's input there is a strong argument that the bagseed female was of punta roja lineage. but, who was there down in sa to confirm that it was in fact punta roja?
catpiss, sandlewood, sage, frankincense coming from a sa landrace sativa deserves mention imo.
here's a photo of the foxtail santa maria clone in full flower:
^^ link
G`day Idiit
Looks like a hybrid to me .
An Afghan Hz or Sk Hz is what it reminds me of . South American Sat ?
Never seen one look like that .
That`s not to say it isn`t the pure line its represented as . I`ve just not seen that type of calyx on a pure Sat before .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
Looks like a hybrid to me .
An Afghan Hz or Sk Hz is what it reminds me of . South American Sat ?
Never seen one look like that .
That`s not to say it isn`t the pure line its represented as . I`ve just not seen that type of calyx on a pure Sat before .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
I have to agree with Elmer Bud. I have never seen a pure Sativa with dreadlocks calyx development, Sativa fox-tailing is loose and almost always fluffy looking . I always associate the dreads with hybrids and I really enjoy growing these types as they are almost always hyper potent from my experience.
Every pure land race sativa I have ever grown always shed a portion of their pistils when drying and during handling. I usually had to sweep the floor of them in both the grow and the dry room.
Every pure land race sativa I have ever grown always shed a portion of their pistils when drying and during handling. I usually had to sweep the floor of them in both the grow and the dry room.
@ Idiit, thanks for the warm welcome, I've followed you for some time already since you have experience with the Nanan Bouclou, I've had a few packs for about a year almost 2 yrs already but haven't had a chance to pop em.
That aside, I really want to know what the Brazilian inside Santa Maria is? Is it Manga rosa? Is it what causes the guava paste smell? When I mentioned the incense smell, I realized that smell only came up after exhaling the smoke. NYC Haze, always smells like some type of essential oil resin/musk.....like fancy bath oils. When you have the bud in your hand, you would think somebody sprayed a perfume on it, it smells classier than it looks. Then, after smoking, that smell lingers and is accentuated. I thought all weed was like that until Skunky stuff started coming around in the late 90's early 2000's.
Santa Maria is totally different than Haze, except the exhale and supposedly the Breeder claims to have crossed the original clone with a "Mexican Haze"....which makes me think Oaxacan Gold/Red or Michoacan.
That aside, I really want to know what the Brazilian inside Santa Maria is? Is it Manga rosa? Is it what causes the guava paste smell? When I mentioned the incense smell, I realized that smell only came up after exhaling the smoke. NYC Haze, always smells like some type of essential oil resin/musk.....like fancy bath oils. When you have the bud in your hand, you would think somebody sprayed a perfume on it, it smells classier than it looks. Then, after smoking, that smell lingers and is accentuated. I thought all weed was like that until Skunky stuff started coming around in the late 90's early 2000's.
Santa Maria is totally different than Haze, except the exhale and supposedly the Breeder claims to have crossed the original clone with a "Mexican Haze"....which makes me think Oaxacan Gold/Red or Michoacan.
^^ really appreciate you helping clear things up Lesnah.
smoke aromas are great tells.
yes, who is available to confirm santa maria is in fact an authentic landrace?
here is a great article on santa maria's use by a specific brazilain relegious sect:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=53985
the author took excessive license imo to freely interchange the generic term cannabis for the specific brazilian strain santa maria after posting that the santo daime sect only smoked the specific santa maria strain in spiritual ceremonies. it does appear from what i've read that santa maria is in fact an authentic brazilian landrace but who's to say with certainty?
the above posted image of santa maria is from the pure planck cut (not a bx like no mercy's version) held and grown out by eskobar (spanish breeder).
now," is the planck cut off a true breeding santa maria?" is another question.
random/stray pollen must always be taken into consideration re outdoor strains. the santa maria mom that the planck cut was taken from might not be the best representation of santa maria.
i have never seen a thread on "what constitutes a true landrace?" including and centering around the ever-present random/stray pollen issue. all landraces are tainted with stray pollen. this is a factual statemnt ignored up until now from what i've read on the cannabis forums.
how does a landrace survive and yet continue on as an authentic landrace after being infiltrated and tainted by nearby (several kilometers) males of different genetic lineage year after year, decade after decade, century after century? remember a single spec of pollen can travel and remain viable over great distances and feral landraces are not culled for unwanted pollen dispersal. i talking about lateral migration/pollution/mingling over time here.
http://www.votehemp.com/PDF/Small2003JIH.pdf
^ this does not take into account individual pollen specs that can travel much greater distances. think years, decades, centuries, perhaps millenium.
due to the smoke aroma terpenes the lineage of true santa maria conceivably having ancestral connections to the original haze genetics is at least now mentioned and addressed.
smoke aromas are great tells.
yes, who is available to confirm santa maria is in fact an authentic landrace?
here is a great article on santa maria's use by a specific brazilain relegious sect:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=53985
the author took excessive license imo to freely interchange the generic term cannabis for the specific brazilian strain santa maria after posting that the santo daime sect only smoked the specific santa maria strain in spiritual ceremonies. it does appear from what i've read that santa maria is in fact an authentic brazilian landrace but who's to say with certainty?
the above posted image of santa maria is from the pure planck cut (not a bx like no mercy's version) held and grown out by eskobar (spanish breeder).
now," is the planck cut off a true breeding santa maria?" is another question.
random/stray pollen must always be taken into consideration re outdoor strains. the santa maria mom that the planck cut was taken from might not be the best representation of santa maria.
i have never seen a thread on "what constitutes a true landrace?" including and centering around the ever-present random/stray pollen issue. all landraces are tainted with stray pollen. this is a factual statemnt ignored up until now from what i've read on the cannabis forums.
how does a landrace survive and yet continue on as an authentic landrace after being infiltrated and tainted by nearby (several kilometers) males of different genetic lineage year after year, decade after decade, century after century? remember a single spec of pollen can travel and remain viable over great distances and feral landraces are not culled for unwanted pollen dispersal. i talking about lateral migration/pollution/mingling over time here.
http://www.votehemp.com/PDF/Small2003JIH.pdf
^ this does not take into account individual pollen specs that can travel much greater distances. think years, decades, centuries, perhaps millenium.
due to the smoke aroma terpenes the lineage of true santa maria conceivably having ancestral connections to the original haze genetics is at least now mentioned and addressed.
Racos stuff is like a team of supermodels,,always picture perfect!
This is one link ive spoke of .I believe this shows an idea of what the Original Haze looked like .This shows true vigor an how she would have been a great producer before being to far inbred .Link below
These pics show foxtails which is not from introduction of indica genes .It also shows purple which is not from indica genetics . The purple has been shown in beautiful pics from nachillo who also post here .There is also an old thread ( Punto rojo y mangobiche (colombia - manizales 2000mts) ) which shows the purple trait
This is somthing to ponder on for those who only associate foxtailing or spindly stacked calyxes with being the attribute to OHaze . Remember the Lumbos of the 60's were even longer flowering then Thai's .
Much respect to all our latin brothers especially both juanddeathh and joe verde page 10 an 11 who ive got pics tagged below
http://www.colombiacultiva.org/foro...id=fad801ae152293393b2b3986d7d17382&start=135
1luvbigherb
Attachments
Thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread
Someone gave this to me i forget who they said it was grown outdoors in NYC
This is Some Nevilles Haze the Hazier pheno i was told she finished 10/30
This is Straight incense a heavy sandlewood with pine the nose is the same as the taste .The flavors have been present in all 4 Nevilles haze phenos ive ever experienced .The taste is heavy incense lips smackin taste that lingers on your mouth an in the room
1luvbigherb
Someone gave this to me i forget who they said it was grown outdoors in NYC
This is Some Nevilles Haze the Hazier pheno i was told she finished 10/30
This is Straight incense a heavy sandlewood with pine the nose is the same as the taste .The flavors have been present in all 4 Nevilles haze phenos ive ever experienced .The taste is heavy incense lips smackin taste that lingers on your mouth an in the room
1luvbigherb
Attachments
As for the comparsions of punto rojo to NH it is more reminescent while growin than dried .But there have been pics posted here from an old thread which had a NL pheno and a Wild stacked calyxes pheno growin in a pot in spain or colombia maybe 3 diff phenos .An older poster who doesnt post anymore . I cant find the thread but i can recall those pics clear as day ,The thread was only 3 page or soo
I think these pics give a better look she is very airy with lil foxtails calyx just but out every where .Amazing Smoke which im thankful to Both Sams an Nevil for but most of all G who is the originator of OHaze
I think these pics give a better look she is very airy with lil foxtails calyx just but out every where .Amazing Smoke which im thankful to Both Sams an Nevil for but most of all G who is the originator of OHaze
Attachments
Another gift ,I was told this was also grown in NYC along with some other info
This is from MOTA created by Ripzz if i recall It was a OHaze (church dom) crossed to DSD double strawberry diesel .The Genetics are very impressive she finished 10/25 .The smell is a dark coffe funk .The taste is strawberryish with dark earthy Haze finish really sick ,Not what i was hopin for but special an loved by many .The smoke is soo smoooth its like you dont know your smoking to you blow out a cloud an start coughing
She is special
This is from MOTA created by Ripzz if i recall It was a OHaze (church dom) crossed to DSD double strawberry diesel .The Genetics are very impressive she finished 10/25 .The smell is a dark coffe funk .The taste is strawberryish with dark earthy Haze finish really sick ,Not what i was hopin for but special an loved by many .The smoke is soo smoooth its like you dont know your smoking to you blow out a cloud an start coughing
She is special
Attachments
Not sure If this gives any validation to the OHaze bleeding Red of if this even qualifies .But this is the first i recall seeing this . I was told she was not topped but you can see in the pic # 4 there are 2 spots what looks like a red sap an it clear in the fifth pic of the broken bud the branch does not have color
Not sure of any other causes but just its a first ive seen it personally
In Nature We Trust
Hope everyone enjoys
1luvbigherb
Not sure of any other causes but just its a first ive seen it personally
In Nature We Trust
Hope everyone enjoys
1luvbigherb
Attachments
G`day Biggie
Its the size and coarseness of the calyxes of hybrids that I can usually pick .
I`ve seen heaps of supposedly old school Sativas that are hybrids . Do some digging and you more often find it was crossed to an Indica some where in its history .
Purple can be in Indica / Sativa / Ruderalis . Colour is aesthetic . Not a measure of the effect . Looks pretty . Pretty doesn`t get me high though ...
Pink pistils , red stems , purple buds all aesthetic .
How does it affect me? Can it put bread on the table ?
Thanks for sharin
EB .
Its the size and coarseness of the calyxes of hybrids that I can usually pick .
I`ve seen heaps of supposedly old school Sativas that are hybrids . Do some digging and you more often find it was crossed to an Indica some where in its history .
Purple can be in Indica / Sativa / Ruderalis . Colour is aesthetic . Not a measure of the effect . Looks pretty . Pretty doesn`t get me high though ...
Pink pistils , red stems , purple buds all aesthetic .
How does it affect me? Can it put bread on the table ?
Thanks for sharin
EB .
Sup Unc
Hope santa treated ya well
I feel the Same i dont judge a book by the cover , especially after my experiences with Nevilles haze aswell as Skunk Haze .which reminds me of a story about my Diesel connect at the time came over an didnt think much of the skunk haze from her look .After a smoke session he said he was spinning an didnt get up for awhile
. I know terepenes effect everyone differently an would love to have more experience with Sativas, all in time .I understand/imagine that the complexity of effects built over 6-9 months will be drastic compared to moder hybrids of 8-12 weeks
BTW if your not sure of my comparison on Punto Rojo traits in was to show the similarities with OHaze of the 70's
Ive smoked quite a few purple varieities ,I know color doesnt mean a Damn thing ive smoked what was labeled Purple Haze in Adam an it was some of the worst smoke ive ever tried. Ive smoked a batch of Purple kush in 03-04 an it was smoke of the best smoke ever
Soo what your take on the Punto Rojo ,Hybrid or NLD ?
whats your thought of size an coarseness ? larger denser WLD influence ?
ON this topic id imagine that the santa maria mentioned here has a WLD influence
BTW your familiar with outdoor ,Do you think that NH was really grown outdoor in NYC as someone told me ?
Im curious what Hempy an Jesse would think of this lol
1luvbigherb
G`day Biggie
I went to war over the you can`t grow Haze in snow rap .
Calling people lairs . When they have no 1st hand experiences .
Like I said then . The right pheno in the right micro climate and anything is possible .
I grew Ohaze / Skunk earlier this year finished in May = November in the Northern Hemisphere .
Punto Rojo is Borneo/ Kalimantan weed isn`t it ? lol .SE Asian NLD ?? lol .
From what I`ve seen the last cpl of years . I find it difficult to define WLD from NLD .eg That Thai 82 falls into which sub set ?
ILD ?? Intermediate Leaf Drug !
But its the change of season from long dayz to short dayz in a short period of time thats the hurdle for you Mericans in the Nthn States . . Going from about 14 down to 11 and less in a cpl of months . Hard to co ordinate .
At my lat the longest day is 13.5 hours and gets down to 12-13 for a month or so before it hits 12 /12 for a month . Much easier to fit different strains into that window . Autumn rain is the killer but . That`s our wet season .
The buds look like good out door to me .
I think shortening days and cold nights would be contrary to an early finish though .
Early morning sun and good insulation against the cool of night would help .
Early sun means the plants metabolism is firing from sunrise . If it gets shaded later not as big problem as its already metabolising . If the plant gets sun late morning or not until afternoon . The potential for growth is inhibited . As the plant grows less in a day .
Is light dep not possible in NYC ?
Out doors all day . Brought inside late afternoon . Put back out after sun down . Even a New yorker could manage that surely ?
Smokin C5 x ? X HPHz x La Nina Hash ATM .
Planted some late winter . Budded during the spring . Eventually they wanted to re veg when the day length hit 13 hours .
The Stringiest got turned into bubble .
So yes St Nick looked after me . he he .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
I went to war over the you can`t grow Haze in snow rap .
Calling people lairs . When they have no 1st hand experiences .
Like I said then . The right pheno in the right micro climate and anything is possible .
I grew Ohaze / Skunk earlier this year finished in May = November in the Northern Hemisphere .
Punto Rojo is Borneo/ Kalimantan weed isn`t it ? lol .SE Asian NLD ?? lol .
From what I`ve seen the last cpl of years . I find it difficult to define WLD from NLD .eg That Thai 82 falls into which sub set ?
ILD ?? Intermediate Leaf Drug !
But its the change of season from long dayz to short dayz in a short period of time thats the hurdle for you Mericans in the Nthn States . . Going from about 14 down to 11 and less in a cpl of months . Hard to co ordinate .
At my lat the longest day is 13.5 hours and gets down to 12-13 for a month or so before it hits 12 /12 for a month . Much easier to fit different strains into that window . Autumn rain is the killer but . That`s our wet season .
The buds look like good out door to me .
I think shortening days and cold nights would be contrary to an early finish though .
Early morning sun and good insulation against the cool of night would help .
Early sun means the plants metabolism is firing from sunrise . If it gets shaded later not as big problem as its already metabolising . If the plant gets sun late morning or not until afternoon . The potential for growth is inhibited . As the plant grows less in a day .
Is light dep not possible in NYC ?
Out doors all day . Brought inside late afternoon . Put back out after sun down . Even a New yorker could manage that surely ?
Smokin C5 x ? X HPHz x La Nina Hash ATM .
Planted some late winter . Budded during the spring . Eventually they wanted to re veg when the day length hit 13 hours .
The Stringiest got turned into bubble .
So yes St Nick looked after me . he he .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
