question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[bigherb]

G`day Biggie

Nevil did sell a Haze on Haze .
He reversed the male and made seeds . One catalogue lists them .

And there was a post re by NVL at Mr Nice .

Also I think the Haze selections done by NVL and friends was done in green houses early days . NVL was still learning the indoor techs from The Northern Lights Crew in the early days pre Castle .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Sup Unc

Nevil did mention he did private sales and gave gifts but No Pure haze was ever offered commercially .The catalogue you mention was a list not an actual catalogue for the public

BC was the B female to Haze C an grown along with 5HzC1 he said it was a 10/11 week plant an thought HzB was a hybrid because of this. This cutting was shared

Then there was HzC2 ,HzC squared, HzC feminized an crossed to herself .

There have never been any pics made public of either of these hybrids .BUt it was Nevils opinion that most of his haze stock was a hybrid of Haze an that Thai was an ancestor .

I know the OTs in Holland had the HzC , I wonder f they still do an would ever consider reversing her along with those other Gems

1luvbigherb

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Biggie

When / where did NVL see Thai weed growing to make his references ?
He said he did limited growing in Oz . Then was on junk while in Thailand . Had to run , went to Holland . But he can tell if a seed from Cali has Thai origins ...

More recently he decided that DNA Chocolope was like his old Skunks from back in the day and used it in crosses and denoted them SK crosses . I don`t put as much value in his recognition skills as I once did .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[bigherb]

G`day Biggie

When / where did NVL see Thai weed growing to make his references ?
He said he did limited growing in Oz . Then was on junk while in Thailand . Had to run , went to Holland . But he can tell if a seed from Cali has Thai origins ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .

You'd have to ask him brother

There are several post where he refers to smoking Thai but I don't recall talk of growing it .

As mentioned he's not the only one though Tom Hill also suspects this along with a bunch of growers .
Has Tom Hill grown Thai ?
I don't know ,but I know he smoked it

Remember Im the Kid from NYC just tellin the story I was told of OHaze being Punto Rojo Crossed to itself .

My belief is That Exactly Santa Cruz Ohaze was Pure Punto Rojo

If you remember my reason for bring the Lumbo/Thai debate to my thread was only in reference to a convo between Sams an someone else that sparked my interest


Sams has said in this thread he liked the Haze with Thai blood .Soo again there is many reason why folk have thought Thai to be present in modern Haze offerings

Along with Nevils Description of Nl5HzC His Haze being salvaged from the last crops in Cali .Which is now known to be nothing less than a marketing story .Than Sams old post of Thai an S.indian being a later addition in the 10 yr timeline as I mention prior has caused confusion .Along with the mention of Burnin Bush having relation to the Haze stock Sams gave Nevil

Im just repeating myself ,I understand your point but didn't think his past history aside from growing or smoking adds to the equation .

Id imagine if Thai strains is something your very familiar with smoking you would pick up the taste in an unknown strain you smoke ?

IME NYC haze Taste varies but is very distinct .Id pick the taste out Blind folded starving naked n drunk across the Globe .I havnt tasted a Haze like it in all of 4 trips to Adam but have noticed similar flavors in HpHzC n G13Hz .The Nevilles Haze is the closest ive tasted to our NYC Haze in four phenos ive tried

I know Different strain's share similar Terpenes an this can be the case .

But look at this example Reeferman named Punto Rojo x Mexican Accidental Haze .Before any mention on the net of Punto Rojo Genetics being linked to Haze .It is all in the taste .Reef has grown Thai Varieties never named any Haze ******

Ace seeds to mention is familiar with Both Thai an Lumbo varieties an say that the Lumbo an thai are most dominant in the Ot haze .

Remember ive just pointed out why many in the community have thought in the past or still do think of Thai as a Main Haze attribute

All the While I stand by the story I was told OHaze was Punto Rojo crossed to itself


After reading you final thought I understand your feeling .Well I bet some of the old stories are true an we had our taste at MNS while he posted .I too found it off many of his observations of several popular strains being derived from his work, Bubblegum was another along with Diesel I found funny



1luvbigherb

 

[Mtn. Nectar]

damn.....you gonna write a book on Haze orgins/history bh...........?.........cause you have true passion on the subject............and hope you attain your 'church" grail for the New Year......

the Purple Haze we tended in Corralitos (mid-late70's) was very special for us and having tended most available potentials today I have yet to embrace that gal again.......I'm hoping she still exsists, but no hybrid will do...............why....?....high and flavor in that order.......remember hitting the slopes at Heavenly '79 ..........the rush of clarity and energetic electricity that ran through ones body was crazy flying down those slopes............

lets hope this coming year will bring back some memories for those in need...............

Haze on..................

 

[Mustafunk]

I was very surprised also when I knew about the important Colombian heritage of the Origina Haze. But after all this time observing and gathering information I can really see how this red blood comes out from those Haze genes. At least in the most untamed representations of Haze that we have around nowadays. It may have come from the Mexican genes as well, as there are many red and black blooded mexicans too, but having a 3 way Colombian heritage I guess we can stick with the most obvious origin for all those Purple Hazes, right?

I haven't seen all this red/black/purple/magenta hues in the dutch haze hybrids descending from the classic works from Nevil (NL#5/HazeC and Skunk/HazeC) like SSH, Amnesia, Mango Haze, Jack Herer and so on. But I certainly did in the Haze hybrids by Sam: Thai/Haze X Skunk and Original Haze/Skunk. So maybe the Haze males used by nevil were thai or different green phenotypes instead. This could be also the reason for having two well different haze hybrid families in my opinion.

By they way, does anybody know if the Skunk/Haze hybrid was first made by Nevil or was there any other version before? Because Wernard from Positronics was already selling Skunk/Haze apart from their Haze19/Skunk, so I'm wondering if Wernard did the opposite cross too or it may have received it from Sam like the rest of his stock (just like Eddie from The Flying Dutchmen or Seedsman).

I have taken the time to gather a few interesting pictures of Hazes found here at IC and in several other boards that in my opinion speak by themselves, some of you guys could find them revelating. This are pure colombians from Charlie Garcia's works, obvioulsy red lines too:

The resemblance with the Oldtimer Haze purple phenos is remarkable, so I totally agree with the fact that it's still possible to find a more diverse phenotype population among those, as opposed to the inbred Original Haze offered by Seedsman/TFD.:

Nonetheless, it's also possible to find colourful phenotipes among Tom Hill's Original Haze, this is a selection by Raco, grown by my fella ElRubio:

And of course, dark expressions among Sam's hybrids too, couldn't find the growers of this Thai/Haze x Skunk and Titan's Haze, as opposed to the dutch Haze hybrids by Nevil:

Last but not least, beautiful picture by Robert Clarke from an Original Haze, found in his last book, Cannabis Evolution and Ethnobotany. I was surprised by the compact look of this one actually as I was expecting that the original 70's haze would be something more wild lookin like the OT's:

 

[Mustafunk]

I forgot two of my favourite pictures of Oldtimer1's Haze:

This Purple OT Haze (could it be the OTHaze23 found by Charlie G?) resembles a bit to Tom's Hill Haze, Raco's cut previoulsy posted and even the compact haze from R. Clarke's book:

Gotta love this dark expression, licorice resinous Haze.

Keep the good info coming.

Vibes!

 

[Illuminate]

Sometimes the chase is the most rewarding factor. Thanks for sharing guy's.

 

[Mtn. Nectar]

Musta.....top right pic is closer to what we tended........

the calyxes were shades of violet to royal purple from first emergence .....some pheno's were almost black in total color..........not cold induced or leaves/plant with late finish color......

with age enthusiasm fades for the chase.............

ganj on.................

 

[soopy]

Insane thread, mad respect to all the Haze heads...Bigherb, you're the man, lol. I have enjoyed your posts and enthusiasm for years, mad respect.

Fwiw, I was surprised to find that I found the exact same aroma I found in a Tom Hill Haze in a Mangobiche from CBG...dead on. As the Mangobiche is a pure line, would that suggest a large Columbian percentage in TH Haze to be evident after so much inbreeding? I was just shocked at how similar the two profiles were...

 

[bushweed]

I Respect and appreciate your input especially considering your vast experience with Sativas Thai inparticular .But you know very well you can't compare a Haze hybrid with A pure Haze .Nevilles Haze or which ever Sams Haze hybrid you refer to unless is a Pure cant compare to the Original Haze of the 70's .Especially in reguard to characteristic of growth to decipher possible lineage

Hi brother, yes I know what you're saying if I was growing one from the 70s it would have more vigor, and yes I am referring to a pure haze line I'm growing right now that has some similarities to Nevil's Hz, but not much similarity to Thais I've grown i.e. narrow leaves, but not the elongated narrow leaves of Thais; good vigor, but not crazy tall Thai like vigor. Reminds me quite a bit of Nevil's haze in overall structure, Mangobiche in leaf structure, but they are still in veg and I suspect the Mangobiche has the larger colas. I agree that Nevil and Tom believe the major influence in Haze is Thai, and I'm sure they've both grown Thais in greenhouses to form their opinions, along with the high quality product that they associate with Thais because they were too young to see the real-deal stellar Colombians from the 60s. In any case I have to go with Sam's report and my own observations of Colombian predominance.

Another thought; I always wondered why Sam accused Nevil of selling his haze pure (as proscribed in the conditions of sale), when it appeared that Nevil never did, and then I realized Sam was referring to Nevil selling his stock including pure haze to Ben Dronkers. Sam recently asked me for some Thai seeds and I sent him some, but when I asked him for some Haze seeds in return, he excused himself by saying he wouldn't send anything anywhere it was illegal. So he saved himself the trouble of sending me some haze, and I saved myself the trouble of sending him the better Thais

That's the way the world works...

 

[Thule]

I have taken the time to gather a few interesting pictures of Hazes found here at IC and in several other boards that in my opinion speak by themselves, some of you guys could find them revelating. This are pure colombians from Charlie Garcia's works, obvioulsy red lines too:

View Image

The resemblance with the Oldtimer Haze purple phenos is remarkable, so I totally agree with the fact that it's still possible to find a more diverse phenotype population among those, as opposed to the inbred Original Haze offered by Seedsman/TFD.:

View Image

Nonetheless, it's also possible to find colourful phenotipes among Tom Hill's Original Haze, this is a selection by Raco, grown by my fella ElRubio:

Last but not least, beautiful picture by Robert Clarke from an Original Haze, found in his last book, Cannabis Evolution and Ethnobotany. I was surprised by the compact look of this one actually as I was expecting that the original 70's haze would be something more wild lookin like the OT's:

View Image

I could make a compelling case that the red coloration in Colombians and Haze come from red Lebanese but unfortunately I'm not allowed to link pictures from other forums. Here's what I could come up with:

Leb27 by Esbe

Tom Hills Haze

And some more Leb from Esbe

 

[Thule]

Can't get over this one

Reminds me of Panama

I believe this is the Colombian/Panama red phenotype. I'm pretty sure I saw that coloration on a RSC Lebanese, I'll have to look it up some day. If Tom Hill's haze is a pure haze and has phenotypes like that I'm pretty sure there's a drop or two of hash plant blood in Haze. In fact that might be the reason haze stands out among sativas.

How would a Lebanese hash plant end up in Colombia you might be wondering. We'll have to ask one of the 700 000 Lebanese Colombians

"Many Lebanese settled in the Caribbean region of Colombia, particularly in the cities of Santa Marta, Lorica, Fundación, Aracataca, Ayapel, Calamar, Ciénaga, Cereté, Montería and Barranquilla, near the basin of the Magdalena River."

 

[Thule]

Yes, here's a Lebanese with that leaf trait

 

[Elmer Bud]

Hi brother, yes I know what you're saying if I was growing one from the 70s it would have more vigor, and yes I am referring to a pure haze line I'm growing right now that has some similarities to Nevil's Hz, but not much similarity to Thais I've grown i.e. narrow leaves, but not the elongated narrow leaves of Thais; good vigor, but not crazy tall Thai like vigor. Reminds me quite a bit of Nevil's haze in overall structure, Mangobiche in leaf structure, but they are still in veg and I suspect the Mangobiche has the larger colas. I agree that Nevil and Tom believe the major influence in Haze is Thai, and I'm sure they've both grown Thais in greenhouses to form their opinions, along with the high quality product that they associate with Thais because they were too young to see the real-deal stellar Colombians from the 60s. In any case I have to go with Sam's report and my own observations of Colombian predominance.

G`day Bushie

Some might call that projecting .
Being sure of something that suits / fits your position .That you are speculating on .
Have you ever seen a pic of NVL or Tom in a green house with a Thai plant ?

Or is that visualisation of the model you have in your imagination ?

re Holding out on seeds ...
I heard a tale of a man who received seeds from Thailand as a gift for his associates. Who then wanted to barter the gifted seeds for his associates genetics .

I thought that was an interesting story as well .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[ElRubio]

Some mo pics of that TH Haze (selected by Raco) to compare:

 

[ElRubio]

and some others of Colombian x Afghan (moño Rojo x DC), crossed by Raco aswell, with that colour tones:

Nice side by side photo recopilation.
Thanks for all the info!!

Haze and vibes!

 

[Gry]

Wow , that is beautiful !

 

[idiit]

Wow , that is beautiful !

long live raco!

 

[mexcurandero420]

You can find the purple tones in different varieties from different origin.Some Chinese has it

and like it said before in Lebanese as in this crossing

Never saw eithher btw in the Dutch Haze hybrids any purple tones.

Keep on growing

 

[jack hairy]

mns nevilles haze would be considered a dutch haze hybrid, right?

ive only grown 3 females of it and two of them had plenty of purple color.