question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[@hempy]

hehe u quack me up hempy ,


actually i spoke with him on the phone about haze ,
he had one girl , he killed it and didnt make any haze x haze seed ,
it had been crossed with ruderalis , but since you werent told that directly you tend not to believe it ...



you are the one distorting things the truth be known by posting misleading stuff as you have ,
when you answer people you are super defensive and make out they are attacking you there really isnt any need for that on a forum hempy , calm down ,
we are here to discuss things and debate if necessary ,


if you find you have been mislead or misunderstood something , its ok to say so ,
you dont have to attack or be super defensive , its just forum discussion ,
your reputation is not on the line man and you dont know everything just because u talked to a dude on skype frequently , things go on and have gone on that you know nothing about ...

I spoke to him daily for years and your the one constantly attacking me Donald your the only person in icmag to send me a shifty message also to date.


Do i threaten you in some way mate have i bruised your ego some were along the journey honestly there is no need for negativity.


Facts are Neville got pure haze he did in fact breed and make pure haze seed He bred the c and a into the B...and E.

Both Neville and Sam have said inbreeding haze dose not improve it it has the reverse affect what improves it is crossing it to an unrelated plant be it indica or sativa. Could be why Nevilles hybrids were such a hit.

 

[Donald Mallard]

its obvious by your previous post you mis understood what he did hempy ,
if he had pure haze seeds , he would have looked for another female ,
fact is he didnt because he didnt make any ,
he was still kicking himself years later ,
he killed the only female haze he had as it was too long flowering and a very difficult plant..

the plants remaining were all male ,(5 males is A to E) he would have to outcross before then back crossing to one of those males ,
you should know this .



my ego is fine man , there is nothing you could do or say to damage it ,
i just like to get the facts straight , its a thing i have ,
and its not negativity doing that , its just a need for accuracy and correct information..

 

[@hempy]

its obvious by your previous post you mis understood what he did hempy ,
if he had pure haze seeds , he would have looked for another female ,
fact is he didnt because he didnt make any ,
he was still kicking himself years later ,
he killed the only female haze he had as it was too long flowering and a very difficult plant..

the plants remaining were all male ,(5 males is A to E) he would have to outcross before then back crossing to one of those males ,
you should know this .



my ego is fine man , there is nothing you could do or say to damage it ,
i just like to get the facts straight , its a thing i have ,
and its not negativity doing that , its just a need for accuracy and correct information..

Well Nev did make pure seed as i have posted 3 times now Nev told me he had as did his close mate who was there also.



Why was Neville in search of unrelated plants to haze for his Grail project Nev could of had haze C sent to him or other clones from shanti.



Why has Neville and Sam both said inbreeding haze dose not improve it but selecting a good haze n they are not all good and breeding it to a unrelated line bring out the traits people want from haze ?.


The answers are found in Sam and Neville's posts clearly your not understanding it.



Do you think what Sam and Neville are trying to tell people is Inbreeding haze reduces the quality and reduces the chances of finding good plants.

 

[Donald Mallard]

for nevils purposes , ie breeding seed for sale ,
hybrids are by far best , i dont need to explain why ,


for personal goals and folks that dont grow for production things differ ,
again i dont need to explain that ,


nevil was referring to back crossing haze hybrids to his haze males ,
i dont understand how you dont get that since u posted it a few posts back but the penny didnt drop for you , one of your quite common obtuse moments i think , lack of comprehension ...

im sure again i dont need to explain about inbreeding as most here get that , quality is not so much affected as say yield , you can still get quality plants , they just may not yield as much ,selection is still the key to quality progeny ,



and what sam said is just typical of hybrids hempy ,,

you can get something better than either parent ,
am i really missing something , or is it your lacking comprehension skills man??

do we really need this back and forth ?

i for one am out , i have better stuff to do than debate with someone that cant understand simple stuff ...

i wish you would learn how to interact properly on forums since u spend a lot of time on them ... it doesnt have to be so difficult..

 

[@hempy]

Inbreeding Pure haze is a lot different to inbreeding say a haze hybrid what you see with inbreeding a haze hybrid is a lot different to Pure haze.


The first thing you will notice is faster flowering times to the parent the yield is not so much affected you still get large yields like the f1s in set plants and the f1 seed can have large yielding plants and much less yielding plants but the key change is evident and more so each generation if you have done it you should know it.


You need to stop with the passive aggression Donald i am a very easy guy to get along with if i am treated respectfully if it continues i will just add you to the ignore feature.

 

[Elmer Bud]

i have grown plenty of haze hybrids most acted like pure sativas had no NL in the affect and the high was like LSD up to 6 hour high that was like a roller coaster ride.

Trip weed !

Haze hybrids that smoke like LSD and last 6 hours .
FFS you must have a brain unlike the rest of the population .

And that urban myth about losing bladder control from Haze hybrids needs filing in the same place as your 6 hour trip weed . The rubbish bin .

Exaggeration

Exaggeration is a representation of something in an excessive manner. The exaggerator has been a familiar figure in Western culture since at least Aristotle's discussion of the alazon: 'the boaster is regarded as one who pretends to have distinguished qualities which he possesses either not at all or to a lesser degree than he pretends...exaggerating'.[1]

It is the opposite of minimisation.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

the plants remaining were all male ,(5 males is A to E) he would have to outcross before then back crossing to one of those males

To be fair...and in the interest of keeping things straight, weren't there 2 males (A and C) and 3 females (B, D, and E)? After trying different combinations, BxC were the "goods" as N called it...but he felt at the time that the greatness of that crossing came from the male side.



Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that, please.



HB.

 

[Donald Mallard]

i cant remember to be truthful hb ,

but i know there was only one girl ever flowered and it was tossed without reproducing any pure haze ,
it wasnt that he didnt have any , just he didnt see the value in it till later ,
the reason we had progeny from the males , is thats what was left ...

 

[bigherb]

originally Posted by Nevil View Post
After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.

Nevil sold BxC and HzC2 but only privately not commercially , He actually had 5 females according to his post and the stars A n C

I’m hoping we can focus on Haze and what we have available and can be thankful for . It’s not contributing to the thread the negative comments and opinions of the past . We should be open minded and not personal . Agree to disagree

Wally

I believe as you say inbreeding was not suggested more so for commercial production purposes ( which is why G stopped growing it ) but I don’t believe Soo much the quality . As finding superior plants would need a very large selection

We can have opinions and discuss post of the past , but let’s not continually repeat ourselves . Please let’s focus on the positives . Todd has a Ohaze release coming , if your not happy don’t buy it , if you do post your results here

Let’s put to rest the disrespect of Nevils troubled past , He did a high times interview and explained much of his history in in-depth details . Soo no one is talking bad about him in that regard

As for Nevils stock , I miss very much / I still ponder how he was Soo sooo very detailed with all the history of his stock and stories . It’s either an amazing story or an amazing imagination. But one thing for sure there is no doubt about the stock Nevil Had from 69 or 85 burning bush or Sams selected clones . He had Original Haze pure Colombian Original Haze stock

I’d love to wake up to Mad MAC back in action here , some extremely thin leafed foxtails . Some spicy ladies frosty Bush

I’m happy to see the thread alive , let’s All live Happy and Hazy


1luvbigherb

 

[@hempy]

Nevil sold BxC and HzC2 but only privately not commercially , He actually had 5 females according to his post and the stars A n C

I’m hoping we can focus on Haze and what we have available and can be thankful for . It’s not contributing to the thread the negative comments and opinions of the past . We should be open minded and not personal . Agree to disagree



We can have opinions and discuss post of the past , but let’s not continually repeat ourselves . Please let’s focus on the positives . Todd has a Ohaze release coming , if your not happy don’t buy it , if you do post your results here

Let’s put to rest the disrespect of Nevils troubled past , He did a high times interview and explained much of his history in in-depth details . Soo no one is talking bad about him in that regard

As for Nevils stock , I miss very much / I still ponder how he was Soo sooo very detailed with all the history of his stock and stories . It’s either an amazing story or an amazing imagination. But one thing for sure there is no doubt about the stock Nevil Had from 69 or 85 burning bush or Sams selected clones . He had Original Haze pure Colombian Original Haze stock

I’d love to wake up to Mad MAC back in action here , some extremely thin leafed foxtails . Some spicy ladies frosty Bush

I’m happy to see the thread alive , let’s All live Happy and Hazy


1luvbigherb

Hi big Herb a lot of myths and miss information seams to be common place when it comes to people posting about Neville in here but that seams to be okay .
People have noticed and a lot of it will soon be corrected .


Were do you get the five females from and were do you get Neville was selling pure haze to commercial growers ?.


I love how the people that try to discredit Nev over look both Sam and Neville's posts on how inbreeding both pure haze and haze hybrids dilutes the quality of the haze,One would think that information a important key POINT.


Hybridizing haze is what Sam and Neville are telling people to do with an unrelated line to haze to bring out the haze traits that people want.


Clearly these points made by Sam and Neville dont seam important.

 

[bigherb]

Hi big Herb a lot of myths and miss information seams to be common place when it comes to people posting about Neville in here but that seams to be okay .
People have noticed and a lot of it will soon be corrected .


Were do you get the five females from and were do you get Neville was selling pure haze to commercial growers ?.


I love how the people that try to discredit Nev over look both Sam and Neville's posts on how inbreeding both pure haze and haze hybrids dilutes the quality of the haze,One would think that information a important key POINT.


Hybridizing haze is what Sam and Neville are telling people to do with an unrelated line to haze to bring out the haze traits that people want.


Clearly these points made by Sam and Neville dont seam important.

According to Nevil 5 Females the first Haze which Nevil sadly regretted not keeping, the one which would keep on flowering even after 9 months if I recall , BDE and O for Omega from 1970

HzC2 is the HzCmale feminised and crossed with itself, i.e. Haze squared.
Hz2 looks like a typo for the above.
N

BC as a cutting may still be floating around and there may still be a few 25 year old seeds, but I wouldn't go getting my hopes up. The few haze that came up were all hybrids anyway and haze didn't get better when you inbred it.

Double up HzC! I'm not saying that excellent plants can't be produced from inbreeding what we have, but we are going for the Ultimate (Grail). If anybody pinches this name I'll be pissed off.
This should start the ball rolling, I'll continue later.
N.

All the information is still available of Nevil post in the threads he started , seems Nevils had mixed thoughts on inbreeding

Post from Sams

Also I have suggested many times that Original Haze is "breeding material" not great commercial growing materials, but you seem to only notice what you want to notice. It is the only pure Original Haze available.

I do not know what any seed seller sells, ask them if it is my varieties or if I made the seeds.
Remember I suggest real Original Haze for breeding, not commercial crops, you may be lucky and find a real keeper for production, but the odds are low. Just try and cross the best you find X your favorite varieties, and you will find lots of keepers.

-SamS

I’m not a breeder , reguarding inbreeding my opinion is from available Haze stock ( if it even makes sense ) . While preserving Haze it is/ has been continuously inbred From
Sams Stock , Tom Hill , Old timers Haze , Todd . While there are some plants that are just Okay others are amazing and some can be mind blowing . Above Sams mentions it’s not great for commercial growing nothing about the quality of the Plant

Im hoping we can move forward from these old topics

 

[Donald Mallard]

i dont really have a dog in the fight ,
haze is not something im that worried about to be honest ,


but i did talk to the guy on the phone , he said only one girl ,
she was the most impracticable plant he has ever seen ,
he made 3 lots of seed from it and it still was not ripe ,
from memory the 3 lots were ruderalis crosses ,
he said he regretted not keeping it or making more haze ,
and was left with only males after culling that girl ..

if he made more haze seed we would be hearing a lot more about it im sure ..



that was from the horses mouth via the telephone ,
i only spoke to the guy 4 or 5 times on the phone ,
i remember each conversation pretty well ,


one call was about hempy actually ,

he said while he can be difficult , his heart is in the right place ,

so i apologize upsetting the old bugger so much ,
but i cant help it sometimes , haha ..

im a rat bag on the odd occasion ...

 

[Koondense]

I thought his name was Nevil not Neville.
Sorry for being a grandma nazi but these things seem disrespectful towards the legend he is.


Cheers

 

[herbgreen]

I had recently went through the 'questions for Nevil' thread @mr nice forurm and saved Haze quotes from Nevil


The subject of Haze keeps coming up.
I got mine from Sam the Skunkman in the 80's. I bought a couple of thousand of old stock late 60s/ 70. The first batch that I planted produced one plant, a female. It was the slowest to flower I'd ever come across and flowered for longer. I got 3 different crops of seed of it and it had still not finished. It was huge and filled a quarter of the room, it had wispy buds and when you smoked it, other people complained about the smell. It didn't have much resin and after 9 months flowering, with no end in sight, I chopped it. It seem the most impractical plant I'd ever grown. I didn't keep a cutting.

One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil.html

The Haze seeds I got from Sam were grown in America in 69/70. I got them in the mid 80's. All of my Haze came from these seeds of which I was saying I got 7 plants. I was hoping that Sam would come out with something good from his remaining seeds, he never did and to my knowledge, nor did anyone else. The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil-3.html

After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female, whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.

Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.

I could only get 6 to germinate in 85/86

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil-5.html

Quote:
the 89 nl5haze
Was HzC. HzA died before commercial quantities were produced.

Female Hazes were not used to produce commercial quantities of seed.
N.

The best haze hybrids that I bred came from the First Haze female I grew. It was bred to a 75% NL1 ruderalis male. I was so impressed that my first Haze release was NL1xHzC, from a select NL1 cut. It wasn't as good as it's predecessor.
Excluding FH female, the two males A+C were genetically the best (progeny testing). If any of the other females had better progeny than the males, I would have used them, but they didn't. Because of Hazes being slow to flower, it was more efficient to use the males, but this was not my motivation. I wish that I had kept FH, but such is life.
N.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil-37.html

Quote:
Were those NL5Hz , from Haze C?
Yes they were.
N.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil-40.html

 

[TheForgotten]

Good job on the investigative skills, i love reading the history of plants.

I know Sam isn't big on all the controversy that erupts from online posting but i love reading his anecdotes and recollections.
In fact i'd like to interview him, and dictate what he says, maybe write a book about his history....

 

[Fitzera]

This was probably Nevils plan all along (just a goofy theory I made up a second ago). Throw some contradicting info out there here and there over the years causing continued drama (cause he knew what cannabis growers are like), so even in death it remains relevant and ensures a continued legacy. Not that him or his breeding would ever fall out of relevancy, but the drama keeps it at the forefront.

I imagine him laughing in his grave puffing his holy grail.

 

[Donald Mallard]

I had recently went through the 'questions for Nevil' thread @mr nice forurm and saved Haze quotes from Nevil


The subject of Haze keeps coming up.
I got mine from Sam the Skunkman in the 80's. I bought a couple of thousand of old stock late 60s/ 70. The first batch that I planted produced one plant, a female. It was the slowest to flower I'd ever come across and flowered for longer. I got 3 different crops of seed of it and it had still not finished. It was huge and filled a quarter of the room, it had wispy buds and when you smoked it, other people complained about the smell. It didn't have much resin and after 9 months flowering, with no end in sight, I chopped it. It seem the most impractical plant I'd ever grown. I didn't keep a cutting.

One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil.html

The Haze seeds I got from Sam were grown in America in 69/70. I got them in the mid 80's. All of my Haze came from these seeds of which I was saying I got 7 plants. I was hoping that Sam would come out with something good from his remaining seeds, he never did and to my knowledge, nor did anyone else. The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil-3.html

After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female, whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.

Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.

I could only get 6 to germinate in 85/86

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil-5.html

Quote:
the 89 nl5haze
Was HzC. HzA died before commercial quantities were produced.

Female Hazes were not used to produce commercial quantities of seed.
N.

The best haze hybrids that I bred came from the First Haze female I grew. It was bred to a 75% NL1 ruderalis male. I was so impressed that my first Haze release was NL1xHzC, from a select NL1 cut. It wasn't as good as it's predecessor.
Excluding FH female, the two males A+C were genetically the best (progeny testing). If any of the other females had better progeny than the males, I would have used them, but they didn't. Because of Hazes being slow to flower, it was more efficient to use the males, but this was not my motivation. I wish that I had kept FH, but such is life.
N.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil-37.html

Quote:
Were those NL5Hz , from Haze C?
Yes they were.
N.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/4308-questions-nevil-40.html

nice work on finding those quotes herb,
ill stand corrected ....

 

[Sunshineinabag]

I'm still trying super silver haze ....such a newb in this arena

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

I'm still trying super silver haze ....such a newb in this arena

Do yourself a favor and try Mango Haze someday...you might find a slight bit of variation, but all in all good yields with an awesome flavor and high.

HB.

 

[pinkus]

Do yourself a favor and try Mango Haze someday...you might find a slight bit of variation, but all in all good yields with an awesome flavor and high.

HB.

I have to agree. I have not found a plant below "very good" in all the plants that I have grown, and in other's stashes as well. That goes for the IBL too, though I haven't seen as many.

I am starting to flower the first legitimate F1 SSH currently I ever have grown, though I have popped some F2s in the past.