question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[G.O. Joe]

hemp was used as a name for every type by europeans drug or rope very hard to know wtf they were referring to today we make very clear distinctions between hemp and cannabis if we look at india and the range of indica type plants with there flavours and effects and the ganja plants wit flavours effects mixing those genetics to varyng degrees could just about account for all strains out there african s american se asian imo

Hemp is totally different from drug strains. The genetics the Europeans had since the 1500's and spread clearly were not drug strains, and Chinese hemp is also a CBD type. Apparently THC plants produce shitty fiber for some reason and that's just how it is.

More on topic, after many years in the fridge I tried germinating some Sam's Haze/Skunk freebies but the seeds that germinated died almost immediately except for a male that did well. No seed I've grown has topped Sensi's NL5/Haze as my favorite.

 

[funkyhorse]

The use of cannabis in Brazil is well documented and quite old. It's also clearly drug cannabis not hemp. The Europeans had quite a bit of trouble getting their native hemp strains to grow in tropical climates. Along with slaves there was a demand for all sorts of useful plants, cannabis with it's fiber, seeds, and medicinal effects was encouraged by colonial governments

. As far as the slaves themselves bringing along seeds, there's a source that mentions slaves 'bringing cannabis seed in cloth dolls tied to the rag tag clothes worn by slaves'. The source states that 'cannabis was planted and adpated itself well to the entire areas from the state of Bahia all the way to the state of Amazonas...Most authors disclaim Cannabis use in southern Brazil until this century (20th), in spite of evidence to the contrary'. I'm not so sure they would have had to 'smuggle' seeds the way we look at it. A stock of okra, yam, cannabis, etc. seeds would have quite a bit of value.

A different source mentions importation of cult objects into Brazil by slaves from Africa, including "sacred herbs for aphrodisiac purposes, or pure pleasure." Prominent among these revered herbs was cannabis which probably(?) came from Angola and had several local names in Brazil by the 19th century. Pungo in Rio de Janeiro, Macumba in Bahia, maconha in Alagoas and Pernambuco, and diamba or liamba among stoners. He also suggests that cannabis used for psychoactive purposes could have reached Brazil with Portuguese sailors directly from India or indirectly from Portugal.

This is where I'm going to place my bet. The Portuguese had colonies in India and did a huge amount of trade. Maybe the slaves brought some African seeds with them, or the slave traders themselves did. Maybe some hemp from Europe was experimented with. The best stuff, that spread like wildfire, likely were Indian strains brought by sailors. If you brought a couple of pounds when you shipped out to sea from Goa by the time you'd get to Brazil you'd have a few ounces of seeds.

I was in Rio de Janeiro a month before Fumo da Lata arrived. It did a revolution in Brazil, before that very few people smoked in Brazil top quality ganja.
I brought to Brazil paraguayan sativa and I was treated like a semigod
I dont think portughese behaved the same way as dutch. Goa is home to very famous ganja, probably coming from Idduki, and Goa was a portughese colony. But Brazil is 3 times bigger than India. In Rio by the 80's nobody heard of any Red Aracaju nor any Manga Rosa....these myths are product of the 90's after Fumo da Lata arrived, brazilians are very nationalistic and they needed to embrace a local variety as theirs

Brazilian ganja up to 1988 was terrible low quality, we called it lettuce plants
After Fumo da Lata brazilians turned to Paraguay, not Colombia for ganja. And it was all destroyed when DEA set up a base in Paraguayan Pedro Juan Caballero which is the capital of South American cannabis, the number one producer of cannabis in the continent

 

[@hempy]

Hemp is hemp and I doubt pot strains have any connection to it. If the Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese knew anything about pot you'd think there would be some record of this, and they would have had some at home. It would be interesting to know the earliest reference to Indian pot being traded outside the country.

Industrial hemp is a 20th century introduction what is grown today was created due to prohibition and all variety are patented.

Traditional variety's of hemp like found in Japan can not be grown as they have the THC content of old Mexican and Jamaican cannabis.


The English called cannabis hemp you had cannabis spreed threw the pacific and other places because of shipping / trade Dutch Spanish French English all had colonies that are now called Australia Vietnam Indonesia and so on .



High THC cannabis produces a superior end product like fiber paper oil and produce more seed.


Hemp that was grown in Australia by the first settlers would of originated in Africa India and ended up becoming wild up until the governments started to eradicate it because people were harvesting the wild crops in the 20th century.



Cannabis spreed because it was a very important crop.

 

[Dr.Young]

Wow dr purp you did her proper... That cross sounded good to me, and now it looks pretty good.. Im wanting to get nevhaze, nl5haze and mangohz, but next I wanna try to get the nev x oax..
Congrats on the special memories and bonds mate

 

[G.O. Joe]

Industrial hemp is a 20th century introduction what is grown today was created due to prohibition and all variety are patented.

That's not how THC/CBD genetics works. Hemp genetics are CBD genetics patents or not. They were CBD genetics long before Finola or whatever you're talking about.

 

[@hempy]

That's not how THC/CBD genetics works. Hemp genetics are CBD genetics patents or not. They were CBD genetics long before Finola or whatever you're talking about.

[FONT=Arial mt rounded bold, arial, helvectica, geneva] The roots of Shinto religion probably date back to the neolithic Jomon culture (10,000-300 BCE), and so it is quite possible that psychoactive cannabis had been available in Japan for well over 2000 years.
It is no secret that weedy (uncultivated) hemp in Hokkaido is still psychoactive. Indeed, every year some people try to harvest it in the autumn and get caught by the police. Its potency has been described as "quite good". It descended from cannabis legally grown by Japanese farmers until the late 1940s. Hokkaido hemp is by no means the only kind of indigenous psychoactive cannabis found in Japan:

"A survey of the THC, CBN and CBD content of hemp from all parts of Japan was reported by Dr. Keizo Watanabe. Marihuana from Tochigi and Hokkaido regions contained a 3.9 per cent and 3.4 per cent THC, respectively." [SIZE=-1](UNDCP 73/3)​

​

These potency figures are comparable to marijuana available in Jamaica and Mexico in the 1970s.
Before worldwide laws against cannabis were introduced over the last few decades, there was no real incentive to breed plants specifically for low THC yield. There is no known genetic link between qualities desirable in fibre plants and low THC-yield. In fact, since the resin acts as a natural repellant against insects and other pests it is likely that more resinous plants are more robust. Thus plants could be usable both as industrial crops grown for fibre and seed and for medical and recreational purposes.

"Many of the older fibre hemp varieties were in actual fact rather rich in THC, since psychoactivity was not used as a selection/breeding criterion prior to the 1970s." [SIZE=-1](Prof. Szendrei, UNDCP 1999) [/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1]Hemp harvest in Nagano[/SIZE] Many of the old hemp seed strains of pre-war Japan can no longer be legally cultivated because they don't meet the low THC-requirements imposed by some prefectural governments. This is even though the Cannabis Control Law does not specify any THC limits and regulates only based on the intended purpose of the crop. The Nagano prefectural government is refusing to issuing licenses to grow the traditional local mountain hemp and will only permit cultivation of a specially bred low-THC strain called "Tochigishiro". That strain was developed at Hiroshima University and its main cannabinoid is CBDA. Some old hemp farmers complain that it produces fibre of inferior quality when compared to more traditional strains that do contain noticable amounts of THC.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[@hempy]

The Yanghai Tombs near Turpan, Xinjiang-Uighur Autonomous Region, China have recently been excavated to reveal the 2700-year-old grave of a Caucasoid shaman whose accoutrements included a large cache of cannabis, superbly preserved by climatic and burial conditions.




The HPLC, GC, and MS analyses confirm the identity of the supplied plant sample as Cannabis sativa L. The predominance of CBN indicates that the original plants contained Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) as the major phytocannabinoid constituent. The presence of CBO and numerous CBN-related substance peaks further supports this view. CBD and CBC, together with their known thermo-oxidative degradation products CBE and CBL (Brenneisen, 2007), are present, but the GC analysis would appear to indicate that, in both cases, CBC and CBL are represented in greater quantities, as expected in a high-THC cannabis strain wherein CBD is only a minor component. In addition, there is a peak for CBNV which confirms that the plant also contained Δ9-tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV), a propyl phytocannabinoid. All of these observations are consistent with strains of cannabis with a high THC content and in an alternative taxonomy suggests it should be assigned to Cannabis indica Lamarck (Hillig and Mahlberg, 2004).

 

[G.O. Joe]

That would be a great point if Japanese hemp or ancient western Chinese pot were in any way related to cannabis anywhere else. Japanese and Thai strains are also known for weird cannabinoids.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

That would be a great point if Japanese hemp or ancient western Chinese pot were in any way related to cannabis anywhere else. Japanese and Thai strains are also known for weird cannabinoids.

The Orient Express I grew this year has some pretty wild cannabinoids in it. It has Chinese genetics in it. Psycodelic, and deep thought high. Stimulant too. It tastes like Chicken pot pie

 

[right]

I've smoked a lot of Columbian red , and it seems that the haze is way more like some of the Thai strains that I've done . Has haze really changed that much?

 

[mexcurandero420]

Two examples of analyses of hemp cannabinoids and it was mentioned in the past that growing Indian hemp was worstless for rope and fibre.

Indonesia was visited by muslim (arab, indian) traders in the past, so probably one of those brought indian hemp with them.

In the US in the early twentieth century a Turkish variety was grown for bird seed.

Dewey (1914) noted that a Turkish narcotic type of land race called “Smyrna” was commonly used in the early 20th century in the US to produce birdseed, because (like most narcotic types of Cannabis) it is densely branched, producing many flowers, hence seeds.

About Parke Davis, one of the big companies at that time with Cannabis medicines sold in the pharmacies, seemed to have seed collectors.

In fact in the early 20th century Parke Davis seed collectors introduced Indian sub-continent seed into Southern Appalachia to create Cannabis Americana of equal or greater potency to the Indian sub-continent product they were having difficulty importing due to disruption of shipping from world war one! Parke Davis collected seeds from India, Turkestan, and Nepal, and sent them back to be grown in the Blue Ridge Mountains and Mexico.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

So did I. Columbian red it was 40 an ounce. There was a seemingly endless supply.


Columbian gold was different. More up lifting. The gold was rare here

 

[harvestreaper]

Hemp is totally different from drug strains. The genetics the Europeans had since the 1500's and spread clearly were not drug strains, and Chinese hemp is also a CBD type. Apparently THC plants produce shitty fiber for some reason and that's just how it is.

More on topic, after many years in the fridge I tried germinating some Sam's Haze/Skunk freebies but the seeds that germinated died almost immediately except for a male that did well. No seed I've grown has topped Sensi's NL5/Haze as my favorite.

i think most of us are aware that hemp and ganja today are very different my point was back then in europe an usa <europeans to>they used the term hemp for both kinds which makes it very confusing ,, i dont believe the indian hemp they collected and spoke of was some drug free strain at all doesnt make sense to me yes we know fibre was produced as a main crop but people are people theyd be just like us back then if something was good theyd try to hang on to it just like we do today as far as written history all of it was wrote by the aristocracy back then and gives very little indication of any kind of truth as to what the masses /people did/ wanted it was more about slave and stock control and right now in 2019 there still thousands of people unofficially growing weed as to the laws and i sure wouldnt be looking at british goverment records to find the true number altho iroonically in 500 years that probly what historians will be looking at lol

 

[harvestreaper]

So did I. Columbian red it was 40 an ounce. There was a seemingly endless supply.


Columbian gold was different. More up lifting. The gold was rare here

interesting you old timers that smoked columbian did you see any similarities at all between varuis columbian varieties and haze ??

 

[right]

I've only started smoking haze recently. Lots of ' commercial back in the day . The haze I've smoked is more like the Thai, mostly Thai hybrids. How much has haze changed. I thought I read that they added in New genetics the 2nd year to preserve the line .

But I don't know anything like Sam, big herb or Hempy .
( best thread on icmag right now )

 

[@hempy]

A lot of the dutch lines sold have Rudaralis in there ancestry they breeders including Nev used it to shorted and speed up flowering and produce auto flowering lines.Why you can run seed and find high THC plants and low THC and high CBD and diff different %.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

interesting you old timers that smoked columbian did you see any similarities at all between varuis columbian varieties and haze ??

Its been a long time. Santa Cruz is 3 hours drive, but the Original haze was out of my price range back then.
I have smoked plenty of Haze since then, but not what was grown by Sams buddies.
We smoked Mexican, Columbian, Cambodian, Thai, Maui, Kauai, Kona and assorted hash back then.


The Haze I grew from Tom Hills seeds was very different from anything I had back then. I still have some of those seeds in the seed fridge

 

[G.O. Joe]

Two examples of analyses of hemp cannabinoids and it was mentioned in the past that growing Indian hemp was worstless for rope and fibre.

You and hempy cherry-pick much?

That table 2.2 apparently from a book by the founder of GW Pharma does not say what source the Chinese hemp and imported hemp is from or how representative they are of anything, as far as I can tell. Like, hemp fish bait - maybe it's Skunk#1.

The next one is from https://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/iha03109.html
where they use the word hemp loosely - as in Cannabis - there is no way of telling what they are talking about. They do not say that those are hybrids that have actually been used for fiber, or in any way represent pre-WW2 fiber crops. The high CBN content is curious and would make anyone with knowledge of botany and chemistry question those numbers. The CBD and THC numbers given are higher than those seen outside the former USSR, but the ratio clearly represents CBD genetics nonetheless - which don't get you high.

My exact quote was shitty fiber for some reason - in comparison to CBD varieties selected for fiber. If people in Japan or wherever don't have CBD genetics available, perhaps they'll grow THC dominant plants. The subject was European hemp as it was before WW2, which Europeans took elsewhere - and in the case of the US, was mixed with good Chinese hemp late in the game. The descendants of which Americans are quite familiar with. Not ancient Chinese pot, not Muslim-world pot, not Japanese hemp from China then grown in isolation for thousands of years, not mystery hybrid cannabis.

 

[CannaRed]

Rob Clarke talks about Turkey and Nepal using the same landrace strain for both hashish production, and textiles.
Hash church 54
Starting at 44 minutes.[YOUTUBEIF]https://youtu.be/rGf57LYMzQg

[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[@hempy]

You and hempy cherry-pick much?

That table 2.2 apparently from a book by the founder of GW Pharma does not say what source the Chinese hemp and imported hemp is from or how representative they are of anything, as far as I can tell. Like, hemp fish bait - maybe it's Skunk#1.

The next one is from https://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/iha03109.html
where they use the word hemp loosely - as in Cannabis - there is no way of telling what they are talking about. They do not say that those are hybrids that have actually been used for fiber, or in any way represent pre-WW2 fiber crops. The high CBN content is curious and would make anyone with knowledge of botany and chemistry question those numbers. The CBD and THC numbers given are higher than those seen outside the former USSR, but the ratio clearly represents CBD genetics nonetheless - which don't get you high.

My exact quote was shitty fiber for some reason - in comparison to CBD varieties selected for fiber. If people in Japan or wherever don't have CBD genetics available, perhaps they'll grow THC dominant plants. The subject was European hemp as it was before WW2, which Europeans took elsewhere - and in the case of the US, was mixed with good Chinese hemp late in the game. The descendants of which Americans are quite familiar with. Not ancient Chinese pot, not Muslim-world pot, not Japanese hemp from China then grown in isolation for thousands of years, not mystery hybrid cannabis.

While most of the claims of archaeological cannabis in Central Asia are spurious, as mentioned above (7, 28), new discoveries of ritual cannabis use in western China are well documented and scientifically studied. The recent discovery of a cannabis burial shroud, comprising 13 desiccated plants, from the Jiayi Cemetery (ca. 800–400 BCE) in Turpan provides evidence for the ritualistic use of cannabis in prehistoric western China (9). In addition, dried stems, fruits, and branches were preserved in burials in the Yanghai tombs (ca. 500 BCE) (10, 32), where a leather basket and a wooden bowl filled with cannabis seeds, leaves, and shoots was found near the head and feet of the deceased, who may have been a high-ranking male shaman (10). The wooden bowl shows characteristics of prolonged use as a mortar, indicating that cannabis was pulverized before consumption; however, there is nothing in the tomb to indicate that it was burned or smoked, and the psychoactive plant might have been orally consumed. The botanical and chemical analyses further suggest that the ancient cannabis from the Yanghai tomb had elevated levels of secondary compounds (20), corroborating the present study’s findings. The lack of evidence for cultivation of hemp plants in this region leaves open the possibility that there were wild varieties with naturally higher phytochemical levels or that the domestication process did not follow conventional models.


We know cannabis, named ma or da ma, was used for its fibers and food from very early in Chinese history, we can also conclude that they knew of its medicinal benefits very early as well.

The Chinese were also aware of the difference between the male and female plants and how the female plants could produce a psychoactive reaction.
The earliest known Pharmacopeia in existence is likely to have belonged to Emperor Shen Nung (2,700 BC).
The book shows how hemp growth was plentiful and it shows that they were aware if its psychoactive properties.
Ma-Pho a word contained in the book refers to a change in state while ma-fen, also included, refers to psychotic properties of the resinous tract.
Sheng Nung himself is said to be the father of Chinese history often experimenting with various plants to see their effects even to the point of poisoning himself so he could find an antidote.
Hua T’o was an ancient Chinese surgeon who used a Hempen wine (Ma Yo) as an anaesthetic to ensure his patients would feel less pain.
It is said that he would perform painful operations while his patients were under the anaesthetic including organ drafts as well as operations involving the chest, limbs, loin and even the intestines.


The quality of hemp fibre depends not only on the field controls, but also on the sowing time. If the sowing time is early, the fibre will be thick and strong and can be harvested early. Otherwise, the fibre will not be mature. So, it is better to sow hemp seed early instead of late.”