question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[willydread]

We have discussed this in the past , it’s very interesting

We should also consider the Atlantic slave trade . Dating back to 1500’s African slaves from various areas such as Congo , Senegal , Angola , Nigeria Etc . We know Africa is probably the best place with unhybridized cannabis . There scared strains have been cultivated and still by tribesman and such . It seems very possible seed was brought by some of the million of slaves during these times


1luvbigherb

I don't really agree with the slave theory, I mean, when the slaves got on the ships they were half-naked, piled up like cattle, in the worst conditions, I don't think I would have cannabis in mind ... Probably cannabis African arrived with trade (did any cannabis market exist at that time? I don't know ...)

 

[Benny106]

The slave ships needed sails and rope.

 

[willydread]

The slave ships needed sails and rope.

The sails and ropes were made with European hemp, and later with the North American one, the settlers tried to grow hemp in the tropics but it did not work, subsequently cannabis arrived from South East Asia and India.
As far as I know, African cannabis arrived in the Caribbean (and perhaps also in Colombia) in the 1950s, with pan-African movements ...
Unless there were "free" Africans participating in the construction of the Panama Canal, and other major works in the region (as did Indians and Pakistanis)...

 

[G.O. Joe]

When we take a look to the history of the Colombian varieties.

Proof? Sounds made up. Borneo??? There's no reason why the US would be behind growing pot in Colombia or anywhere else in 1930. It was already known in Panama in 1916 with a report that Puerto Rican soldiers there were smoking it.

The Jamaican name of ganja obviously indicates an Indian origin for theirs, and ganja smoking was already well known there in the 30's.

 

[Beaucephus]

I think it’s fairly plausible that the slave ships crew brought cannabis/hemp to the americas with them.

 

[willydread]

Hemp, maybe, but African cannabis? I don't think,for who?

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

I don't really agree with the slave theory, I mean, when the slaves got on the ships they were half-naked, piled up like cattle, in the worst conditions, I don't think I would have cannabis in mind ... Probably cannabis African arrived with trade (did any cannabis market exist at that time? I don't know ...)

Some of the real heads would smuggle a few seeds I bet. You need your weed.

 

[harvestreaper]

if the english could aquire human beings from africa you can bet they could aquire any of the weed considering indian hemp was big buisness and they were using the slaves to grow it in jamaica

 

[mexcurandero420]

Proof? Sounds made up. Borneo??? There's no reason why the US would be behind growing pot in Colombia or anywhere else in 1930. It was already known in Panama in 1916 with a report that Puerto Rican soldiers there were smoking it.

The Jamaican name of ganja obviously indicates an Indian origin for theirs, and ganja smoking was already well known there in the 30's.

Was talking about US pharmaceutical companies and the French brought very likely smokeable Cannabis to Panama in the 19th century during the attempt to build the Panama canal, when Grimault Indian cigarettes were sold from a pharmacy in Paris to several countries.

The Dutch were growing medicinal Cannabis in the East-Indies in the 1920-30s and Kalimantan (Borneo) was part English and part Dutch.

Quoting Murizal Hamzah's report in the Sinar Harapan newspaper July 2, 2008 edition, Indonesian people recognized marijuana in the 19th century, after the Dutch deliberately brought cannabis from India to Aceh as a pest for coffee pests in Gayo, Central Aceh. Marijuana is also used to protect tobacco plants from caterpillar pests by growing side by side. The rest of the cannabis leaves used to wrap tobacco to keep it dry and not wavy were found to be thrown away in the Aceh Market which is next to the Baiturrahman Grand Mosque in Banda Aceh until 1945.

India was well known for the use of Cannabis for recreative and religion purposes.

Cannabis shop in Khandesh, India, late-19th century. REPORT OF THE INDIAN HEMP DRUGS COMMISSION

[/IMG]

Back to the US history

drug cannabis had made its way into the American pharmacopoeia by 1851, though its use in medicine was sporadic and ill-defined (Johnson, 2017, p. 21-24)3. Often referred to as “Indian hemp” or “cannabis indica,” most early cannabis drugs were imported from India via Britain. By the early 1900s, however, the US government began experimenting with the domestic production of certain imported drugs, including cannabis (Stockberger, 1919). Many of these agricultural experiments cropped up in the South, where the soil and climate were thought to be ideal for drug cultivation (Stockberger, 1915, p. 19).

 

[willydread]

if the english could aquire human beings from africa you can bet they could aquire any of the weed considering indian hemp was big buisness and they were using the slaves to grow it in jamaica

No, my friend, slaves in Jamaica were used to grow sugarcane, not cannabis, Indians introduced ganjah, and "reminded" afro jamaican how to use cannabis(And not only that, even most of the vegetables and the cooking)...
I think it went the same way in Colombia...

 

[G.O. Joe]

Was talking about US pharmaceutical companies

They grew in the US, after tariffs on Indian product were enacted. Your exact quote that I was responding to:

In 1930 the department of agriculture of the United States (USDA) created a project to promote the different uses of marijuana. United States knew that marijuana had immense medicinal potential and industrial. The USA did not want to use American lands so they decided to go to Colombia to develop the project. The Marijuana utilized for this project was brought from The Island of Borneo.

The pharmacy trade in pot was nearly nonexistent by 1930. It's hard to believe, whether USDA or private companies.

and the French brought very likely smokeable Cannabis to Panama in the 19th century during the attempt to build the Panama canal, when Grimault Indian cigarettes were sold from a pharmacy in Paris to several countries.

I doubt these would have contained seeds. Murizal Hamzah's report makes no sense as cannabis seems ill suited for the quoted purposes - I wonder what his sources for that is.

if the english could aquire human beings from africa you can bet they could aquire any of the weed considering indian hemp was big buisness and they were using the slaves to grow it in jamaica

The British, either the British East India Company or someone else, brought Indians to Jamaica mid 1800's. Barring any archeological evidence, it would not be surprising if all pot in the Americas and Africa (other than Morocco) is from British colonization coinciding with the British takeover of India in 1858.

 

[pinkus]

I don't really agree with the slave theory, I mean, when the slaves got on the ships they were half-naked, piled up like cattle, in the worst conditions, I don't think I would have cannabis in mind ... Probably cannabis African arrived with trade (did any cannabis market exist at that time? I don't know ...)

My thoughts exactly. However, the slave handlers, procurers, and the various sailors were, from my little knowledge, quite varied in their backgrounds and COULD have brought seeds. But slaves that were in transition from free people to property probably had other things on their minds.

 

[funkyhorse]

Very interesting theories
I agree with Willydread. Slaves only brought their bare asses from Africa. If someone was bringing hemp seeds, it was the captain of the ship. At that time hemp was merchandise and slaves were merchandise. The business for any ship was to transport merchandise

I also find very interesting theory the one from Borneo. I would look up at Sulawesi too, those islands were dutch colony and the dutch still have up to today many very interesting colonies in the Caribbean Sea like Sint Eustatius that was the biggest warehouse hub of merchandises at the Caribbean Sea by 18th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sint_Eustatius
I dont know if the dutch brought the hemp seeds to Colombia, I dont think so, but they certainly did bring it to their caribbean colonies

Wellll, cannabis is not native to South America
The first to bring hemp to the continent were the Jesuits, it was a very important part of their work. And they brought sativa seeds which were the only ones that could grow in most parts of the continent. At that time the continent was a huge humid jungle everywhere and still is, indicas do rot very easily in the jungle and they didnt have light dep nor light technology to play with indicas at that time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Jesus
Colombia was part of the Viceroyalty of New Granada: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viceroyalty_of_New_Granada

No doubt at all Jesuits were the first to bring hemp to Paraguay and the mythical paraguayan ganja of the 80's is certainly legacy of the jesuits in Paraguay. Jesuits made Paraguay very rich, at the 19th century it was the richest southamerican country which was destroyed in the Triple Alliance war by their neighbours. And it was their main base in the continent, and they were sending a lot of people to the Viceroyalty of Nueva Granada at that time, there is plenty of historical info about this in the web

 

[harvestreaper]

No, my friend, slaves in Jamaica were used to grow sugarcane, not cannabis, Indians introduced ganjah, and "reminded" afro jamaican how to use cannabis(And not only that, even most of the vegetables and the cooking)...
I think it went the same way in Colombia...

pretty sure i read somewere they grew hemp there to im aware sugercane was main crop ,the british were trading indian hemp hundreds of years before that time ,seem to remember reading about gifts of hemp seeds given between spain an england to ,,,i could be mistaken tho its happened before lol

 

[harvestreaper]

people had to grow hemp by law in medievel england ive heard it said the name hamp is a variant of hemp ie hampton hamphire etc i mean we know the brirish and others dutch spanish etc were all over the world tradng an dealing an all over the hemp buisness for hundreds of years maybe longer and they call it indian hemp so for me that a simple but strong indication of origin

 

[therevverend]

The use of cannabis in Brazil is well documented and quite old. It's also clearly drug cannabis not hemp. The Europeans had quite a bit of trouble getting their native hemp strains to grow in tropical climates. Along with slaves there was a demand for all sorts of useful plants, cannabis with it's fiber, seeds, and medicinal effects was encouraged by colonial governments

. As far as the slaves themselves bringing along seeds, there's a source that mentions slaves 'bringing cannabis seed in cloth dolls tied to the rag tag clothes worn by slaves'. The source states that 'cannabis was planted and adpated itself well to the entire areas from the state of Bahia all the way to the state of Amazonas...Most authors disclaim Cannabis use in southern Brazil until this century (20th), in spite of evidence to the contrary'. I'm not so sure they would have had to 'smuggle' seeds the way we look at it. A stock of okra, yam, cannabis, etc. seeds would have quite a bit of value.

A different source mentions importation of cult objects into Brazil by slaves from Africa, including "sacred herbs for aphrodisiac purposes, or pure pleasure." Prominent among these revered herbs was cannabis which probably(?) came from Angola and had several local names in Brazil by the 19th century. Pungo in Rio de Janeiro, Macumba in Bahia, maconha in Alagoas and Pernambuco, and diamba or liamba among stoners. He also suggests that cannabis used for psychoactive purposes could have reached Brazil with Portuguese sailors directly from India or indirectly from Portugal.

This is where I'm going to place my bet. The Portuguese had colonies in India and did a huge amount of trade. Maybe the slaves brought some African seeds with them, or the slave traders themselves did. Maybe some hemp from Europe was experimented with. The best stuff, that spread like wildfire, likely were Indian strains brought by sailors. If you brought a couple of pounds when you shipped out to sea from Goa by the time you'd get to Brazil you'd have a few ounces of seeds.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Seed from Nevil

Seed from Nevil

Here are some freshly trimmed Nevilles Haze x Oax buds from seeds Nevil sent me

They smell spicy herbal piffy, with some faint fruit odor in the back ground. I pollenated at least 5 good sized branches on this plant with assorted Hazes, Sativas, Indicas, and Kush. I got a lot of seeds

 

[G.O. Joe]

Hemp is hemp and I doubt pot strains have any connection to it. If the Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese knew anything about pot you'd think there would be some record of this, and they would have had some at home. It would be interesting to know the earliest reference to Indian pot being traded outside the country.

 

[harvestreaper]

bet that a nice up smoke dr purper they look lovely so in effect as rumour would have it its a columbian mexican hybrid with a dash of nl

 

[harvestreaper]

Hemp is hemp and I doubt pot strains have any connection to it. If the Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese knew anything about pot you'd think there would be some record of this, and they would have had some at home. It would be interesting to know the earliest reference to Indian pot being traded outside the country.

hemp was used as a name for every type by europeans drug or rope very hard to know wtf they were referring to today we make very clear distinctions between hemp and cannabis if we look at india and the range of indica type plants with there flavours and effects and the ganja plants wit flavours effects mixing those genetics to varyng degrees could just about account for all strains out there african s american se asian imo