question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[willydread]

no
that was TFD... like willy said... they messed all old strains up...
as many have stated.. seedsman was the best o-haze release... because a keeper in each pack...
there are several grow reports here about it... wish i had more of them... and there where cheap when released in begin 2000'... 20€ 10 seeds... good times for haze lovers...
i don't know where you can buy a pure o-haze to day...
i've tried them all from Nirvana to TFD.... all are contaminated with a indica...
these what i'll show here are the pure o-haze...

well about size and age of pure sativa...
often so older they are so better...
give long veg time... make cut
let the cut develop but keep in small pot.. it's a challenge but once mastered ... easy take
trim back a few times...
than in big pot 20-30 liter and direct 12/12... and voila
a good example was the Zamal...
if flowered to early i'll got tiny wispy flowers...
the oldest cut made the best plant ...

here is a ACE Golden Tiger... flowered from old cut that made it over the winter... the mother had tiny bud's compared... also the other cut i'll flowered direct without veg time...
this one was a monster... 16 weeks but worth the wait... fantastic buds..
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and here the Zamal Mangu'Carrot... same here the old cut that made it over the winter was the best... she is my fav with the haze... such a beauty... over 20 weeks old when harvested... but worth the time... because of amazing clear social high and of course yield

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just my observation... pure sativa blood need time to develop indoors...
M.

you have all my admiration and respect, you have to be really talented to breed some sativa indoor ...: Tiphat:
Beautiful plants!
PS this zamal coming from french touch?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Not so easy with small numbers used in most trials, if you have hundreds or thousands of plants you keep only the seeds of the best females. I used to select my males only from seeds from the best female the year before or transform any prospective males I was thinking of using, to Female to help be judge Organoleptically or by laboratory analysis.
You can also make crosses of what you think might be best, and grow out a lot of progeny to determine the best males to clone, keep and use as a parent, but it takes a lot of space plant numbers and time to do so.
Cannabis is a dioecious heterozygous obligate outcrosser, so unlike tomatoes which are easy to maintain a line of because they can self pollinate and remain true to type, Cannabis can not.
I selected my maybe best males then made seeds X with my best females, and then decided what were the best males to keep as clones, by progeny trialing. That works well but beyond what most growers do. Try transforming the best males to female and pick your male from the best one after transforming to female, they the transformed male to female can be smoked to judge.

It sure is easier to pick the best females, as we all know.
Traditional Cannabis growers grew thousands of plants of a single landrace and save the seeds of the best females, with sinsi growers thay could not do that unless they also grew a seeded crop of the same landrace for next years seeds. They would walk the field to be seeded and destroy any poor looking males and pollinate with all of the rest of the males and then save the seeds from just the best fseeded emales for the next years crop.

-SamS

A question for Sam and all the other haze farmers, how is it possible to carry out a line of haze (but I think I can generalize to all lines) outdoor, over the years without making it degenerate, it is enough to select the right males / females? So there is no risk of too much consanguinity?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Both Seedsman and TFD bought my O Haze seeds as I could sell them cheaper then they could make them under lights, but today I am retired and have no idea what they use for seeds they sell. I sold Kgs for less than .10 a seed. You all know what they sold them for, upto aprox 100 X that price. You did have to buy Kgs from me, and I only delivered where legal like Holland or the UK, I did not care how much profit they made, I suggested a buck or two a seed, but it was their choice to decide their prices. Haze seeds were more than 70,000 seeds per Kg at €5000 I thought they were cheap as hell. My goals were to spread great genetics everywhere, and make a small profit, most seed sellers want to maximize profits, I understand, but that was not my goal.
I always felt that if great seeds were available to all, and people could make clones to save and trade, and had lights to maintain their elite clones the whole War on Cannabis was doomed to failure, it took longer than I expected, but I was right, they have lost the War on Cannabis and now focus on co-opting the Cannabis Industry, as well as taxing and regulating, but I do not care who makes the profits as long as everyone can grow for personal use at home. That is the near future, it is closer to that every year. I do not mind regulated and taxed Cannabis as long as it is safe Cannabis that protects Cannabis consumers from Cannabis with insectisides, fungacides, microbiological contaminates. And you can grow at home or personal use.
It is better than what is found in the black market vape cartridges that are killing people. Cannabis must be safe for consumers, that must be first.

-SamS

 

[campino]

At what time did Seedsman produce your seeds? I think i heard the quality changed dramatically over the years. OR maybe that was the flying dutchman version?



Well, for example, if you have a one gram bud on a 2 foot tall plant, and the resin balls are .01mm across for a wild guess, and then you have a one gram bud on a 12 foot plant, and the resin balls are lets say .04mm in diameter, so that one gram bud would be 4 times as potent right?

No. See it this way. One bract with 1g, with its trichomes weighting 0,1g. This gives you a 10% resin. Now, a plant 10 times bigger, the same bract weights 10g with trichomes weighting 1g. The trichomes grow bigger, but also the green matter that supports them

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

It might be that way. Never done any tests.

 

[MAHA KALA]

well I lived in belief, that SamtheSKman tried to preserve every possible pheno of OH to keep it authentic, now I read he selected males from seeds from the best females, he liked the most, I guess the green ones? does it mean that purple, red maroon, rainbow or blue phenos were selected out? at the case of seedsman haze it seems like that. only green phenotype.

 

[MAHA KALA]

my fav smoke is Tom Hill... wait for the O-Haze to be ready ;-)
nothing comes close to the high of a great Tom Hill Haze so far ...
smoke & grow now 30 years + and have grown most of all well known...
living close to holland... Amsterdam is close ...
man thx & a nice WE'
M.

tom hill haze is the fire. no commercial haze hybrid, I tried, can beat it.

 

[OldCoolSativa]

Traditional Cannabis growers grew thousands of plants of a single landrace and save the seeds of the best females, with sinsi growers thay could not do that unless they also grew a seeded crop of the same landrace for next years seeds. They would walk the field to be seeded and destroy any poor looking males and pollinate with all of the rest of the males and then save the seeds from just the best seeded females for the next years crop.

-SamS

As I understand it, that's why Thai weed was so good, a cultural tradition of many cannabis growers who took great pride in their selections and their finished product. The quality of the herb improved greatly over many generations. I believe the advent of US-grown sinsemilla resulted in the decline of Colombian landraces, as exports dropped and many Colombian growers stopped paying much attention to selection of next-year's seed crop from the best females. As a result, the haze archetype, punto rojo, currently available from seeds sourced after 2000, is good, but it's not as good as the best Colombian herb was in the 1970s.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

We always coloured that another way. My dad and his buddies got great import Thai, Columbian, etc, in Vancouver, starting to my experience in around 74-75. At first it was only hash, then weed imports followed soon after. In 77 or so Columbian was insane, and of course good thai was insane too. Cambodian i recall fondly, brown like bark, and so stony.

Anyway, the people in my area figured that what happened was that as the demand from the North American market increased, the imports dropped in quality fairly quickly for this reason: At first, we got the same stuff they had in their own smaller gardens, and selected for personal use. Then as they saw what the demand was, they grew large fields, of what grew best, not what got you the most stoned. Then they stopped exporting their personal, and kept it for themselves again

 

[Raho]

Sam,
did you make the hybrid Seedsman sold (sells) as their Sugar Haze?
If so, what can you tell us about the "colombian gold" parent?

 

[clearheaded]

I wonder if there is optimal timing for the proper uvb spectrum. ie start of flowering to the 4th week which may be closer to mimic nature as uvb would obviously lessen as season came to an end. as uvb particularly full range actually damages binoid and terps from its high energy as sam found out. or perhaps just for a certain time every day.

specific greenhouse materials to allow the passage of certain uvb(likely cheaper just to produce artificially).

or would adding MORE of the proper wavelengths as supplimental light in a GH setting would be worthwhile.

 

[ambertrichome]

My buddies use UVA/B all the way from seedling- harvest.

Along the Equator, use Ecuador as an example, then add in High Altitude IE... ADNES Mts. 2nd Highest In the world.

Highest UVA/B reading ever recorded were at 20,000ft in Ecuador.
Along the coast has the highest rate of UVA/B of anyplace in the world at sea level. On Average.

High altitude Columbia, Peru, and a few other countries are renown for their high thc content strains, as are most strains that evolved along the Ecuador.
High Altitude Himalayas, are another region.

I also think some strains react more than others to UVA/B supplementation.

My buddies give them UVA/B 6- 12 hours per day, in both Veg, and Flowering, depending on how far the bulbs are from the very top of the plants. 8 hours with 1000w Hortilux, and 24 inches from top of plants.
But on average he uses 2 x 32w Solacure, for each 1000w Hortilux HPS, and with Gavita 1150w 12 hours of UVA/B because the lights have to be 36-40 inches away, and use 4 x 32w Solacure bulbs.

635w Gavita 1700e LED gets 2 x 32w, and is treated the same as 1000w Hortilux HPS, and is calculated for a 4 x 4 area. Gavita HID-1150w 5 x 5

Also from what I hear the Spring crops in Cali are more potent vs the fall crop. And worth more money.

 

[yesum]

Weezard held that uvb or uva was not helpful for making pot stronger or more tasty or interesting in general.

His idea was that light intensity was what helped. He lives in Hawaii and seen a lot over the years, so I do respect his opinion. Intense sun may be better than intense indoor lights though.

I find that a bit of uvb at the end of flower makes the pistils turn dark quicker, or that is what perceive it to be. No scientific tests to prove that.

With just two Original Haze females I have one I am keeping. Not seeing how it is so hard to get a good plant out of this line. Both are good.

 

[MAHA KALA]

good is good. stellar is another league. I can get good plants from almost any hybrid out there.. and dont have to wait 16 weeks. when I have to wait 16 weeks it should be stellar. or bye bye..

 

[yesum]

^^ I went 12 weeks with short lights on. You sound a bit grump really.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

Pure Haze is pure Haze.

 

[ambertrichome]

It also takes up to a week for plants to acclimate to UVA/B, and it doesn't surprise me some find reduced production ect when introducing at the mid/end of flowering. Theyre getting roasted slowly.
In nature, along the equator, they get strong UVA/B, and Sun from germination-harvest.

NASA proved over 30 years ago marijuana chemicals can be manipulated by different light waves. They experimented as far back as Skylab. If memory serves me, weed was one of, if not the first plant studied in space.
This artice was in Hight Times in either the late 70s, or realy 80s. They were experimenting with Xenon, and flashing only for less than a second to create buring, which caused the plants to change the chemical profile.

I also agree Ive grown plenty of killer top of the line weed with no UVA/B, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be better had I used UVA/B on those plants.

They get it in nature, I see no reason for it to muck with them inside, as long as they aren't getting burned alive. Its not logical to me, just as long as there is no overdose.

Try putting a plant outside, in full sun that's never been exposed to the sun before.

It will be fried within hours.

 

[herbgreen]

I think also its related to the concept that the resin production is a natural protection of the plant

The UV increases and plant puts out more resin

Thats the theory

It might work like that and might not There might be more to it than that

Maybe there are a lot more things happening inside the plant when hit with UV

Its not worth it for me to get exposed to the UV to see if i could get more resin production

More resin doesnt really mean quality but who knows Not worth the UV exposure

It could be put on timer and come on for a time when not in the room but who wants to think about that I know I would eventually get some harsh UV


The spectrum tuning on some of the new LEDs seems much more worth while and interesting to me

And far red.... LEDs also dont slowly fade like HIDs and last 50,000 hrs


.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

Try putting a plant outside, in full sun that's never been exposed to the sun before.

It will be fried within hours.

Not usually. Only time i ever saw that was with baby seedlings. Killed them all

Never seen a healthy full size plant get fried going outside.

 

[SolarLogos]

Not usually. Only time i ever saw that was with baby seedlings. Killed them all

Never seen a healthy full size plant get fried going outside.

I'm not contradicting you my friend, baby seedlings will get fried if you put them out in the hot sun, however, I have planted about a dozen seeds in 100F+ weather and they acclimate immediately upon opening. That same weather killed a 4 month old Indica and fried the leaves on 3 GT, because we went from upper 70's to 3 days of mid 90's, then straight to 103-106 for 5 days. The sun killed the Indica and fried the GT the 1st day over 100F, because the plants were not acclimated to the heat.
I believe the key is getting the plant acclimated first. Cannabis that comes up out of the ground in the heat are immediately acclimated, at least in my experience. The ZamPan and HPH (documented in my thread) came up in 100F+ weather (June) and only knew extreme heat until September and have performed like any other plant in normal weather.
Peace, God bless