Please breeders we still want regular seeds too...

[KiefSweat]

the one "male" I flowered was inter-sexed too. After I killed it someone said told me I should have used the pollen from it. Maybe I will find a few more in the last of the seeds.

if the results where not as stellar as they are (minus the odd sexual traits) I wouldn't even think about it, but it is some spectacular smoke.

 

[Illuminate]

i need the 'mind blown'.gif fo sho..

 

[elmanito]

If you are not comfortable with the idea of using chems for reversal then there are other methods available. Few if any are the plants I've seen anybody is working with can not be reversed via other techniques (light poisoning etc). I wonder how the Louis Bolk Institute et al would feel about some of these other techniques though and may even argue that indoor cultivation itself falls outside of their proposed organic protocol, ie a diversity limiting ecological detour regardless of whether or not you're using males, then what?

Breeding techniques have to meet the EU standards, but breeding indoors is for organic cultivation not an option.Breeding in a controlled environment like indoors will be difficult when your goal is adaptation of the outside environment which is changing every time.

Namaste

 

[Mad Matt]

I completely agree with the op, on the very few occasions ive been involved with fem seeds we've encountered issues........

 

[truecannabliss]

Dont overlook us folks, we got a great selection of Regular seeds and dont intend on that changing ever.
Peace

 

[ixnay007]

Well, I read this thread too, and my head hurts a little bit.

What I got out of it is that selfing isn't bad, that if there are hermies in selfed female plants it's because they weren't removed beforehand (not the fault of selfing).

It's a better way of picking two good parents, but like any other breeding method, you need numbers to prevent bad things from happening if someone pees in the gene pool.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Well, I read this thread too, and my head hurts a little bit.

Heh someone used that in another thread one time had me laughin for good 10 minutes

It took me a bit make sure I was comprehending everything too as I think it would anyone. Hell yesterday I was still a little confused. Today I feel like I could teach a class @ Cornell though j/k No doubt a sticky worthy thread.

 

[Mad Matt]

Dont overlook us folks, we got a great selection of Regular seeds and dont intend on that changing ever.
Peace

You are correct mate and a great choice you have

 

[KiefSweat]

dont intend on that changing ever.
Peace

ignorance is bliss.

 

[truecannabliss]

Regs and Fems all produce fire done right.

Regs and Fems all produce fire done right.

ignorance is bliss.

Touche my friends, i think you will find we do fems as well so the ignorance is not coming from this direction.

Peace

 

[Tom Hill]

Breeding techniques have to meet the EU standards, but breeding indoors is for organic cultivation not an option.Breeding in a controlled environment like indoors will be difficult when your goal is adaptation of the outside environment which is changing every time.

Namaste

Yes I understand but the thinking may be a bit flawed, imo, for the simple reason that plant breeders are not necessarily scattered into all corners of the globe - and this is why field trials take place. If I am a plant breeder living in Holland for example, I'm going to have a much easier time of reproducing the target environment (say the tropics) by manipulating the local environment temperature-wise, photoperiod, etc. Providing onsite field trials are conducted in the tropics to guide the breeder along his way, it's difficult to justify such a rule, for me anyway.

In that posted document one can almost hear how torn the highest of minds are on some of these issues as well they should be. If it gets to where some poor guy in SE Asia etc can't label his crop organic simply because the breeder had some lights on in the greenhouse etc during developmental phases, I think many folk will agree that it's been taken a bit too far at that point. -T

 

[Adze]

And now, after a slightly commercial interruption... we may return to the insightful, intelligent and informative thread? Kief and Tom, thanks.

 

[foomar]

Thats a good read , was not aware that colchicine had been used that much in other crops and the extent of modern techniques was an eye opener , certainly moved on from the field trials in the sixties and speeded up the process , if the crop has a high value.

The Henry Doubleday has a more pragmatic aproach , know a lot of farmers who favour organic but not if its more restrictive than the crap they get from DEFRA already.

 

[Godless]

First off, let me state that I am clueless on the topic and the best of my knowledge is what i have gleaned here. I am posting this because I am trying to learn.

Based on the enthusiasm Tom and others have for male-free breeding, One could extrapolate that when buying from a "pollen chucker," it is preferable to get a femmed seed than regs. Is that right? Is there something I am missing here?

On the other hand, I just read this article on a study touting the virtues of sexual reproduction:

http://phys.org/news/2012-04-sexual-reproduction-long-term-benefits.html

It would be more interesting to read the actual study obviously...

 

[KiefSweat]

selfing is still sexual reproduction.

these are the different forms of sexual flowers you can find on plants

Hermaphrodite. In hermaphroditic species, each reproductive unit (as in flower, conifer cone or functional equivalent) of each individual has both male and female structures. In angiosperm terminology a synonym is monoclinous from the Greek "one bed".

Monoecious. In monoecious species, each individual has reproductive units that are merely female and reproductive units that are merely male. The name derives from Greek "monos" (one) and "ecos" (home), a rather unfortunate term. Individuals bearing separate flowers of both sexes at the same time are called simultaneously or synchronously monoecious. Individuals that bear flowers of one sex at one time are called consecutively monoecious; plants may first have single sexed flowers and then later have flowers of the other sex. Protoandrous or protandrous describes individuals that function first as males and then change to females; protogynous describes individuals that function first as females and then change to males.

Dioecious. In dioecious species, each individual has reproductive units that are either merely male or merely female. That is, no individual plant of the population produces both microgametophytes (pollen) and megagametophytes (ovules).[5] From Greek for "two households". [Individual plants are not called dioecious; they are either gynoecious (female plants) or androecious (male plants).]
Androecious, plants producing male flowers only, produce pollen but no seeds, the male plants of a dioecious population.

Gynoecious, plants producing female flowers only, produces seeds but no pollen, the female of a dioecious population. In some plant populations, all individuals are gynoecious with non sexual reproduction used to produce the next generation.

Subdioecious, a tendency in some dioecious populations to produce individuals that are not clearly male or female. The population produces normally male or female plants but some may be monoecious, hermaphroditic, or monoecious/hermaphroditic, with plants having perfect flowers, both male and female imperfect flowers, or some combination thereof, such as female and perfect flowers. Flowers may be in some state between purely male and female, with female flowers retaining non-functional male organs or vice versa. The condition is thought to represent a transition between hermaphroditism and dioecy.[6][7]

Gynomonoecious has both hermaphrodite and female units.

Andromonoecious has both hermaphrodite and male units.

Subandroecious has mostly male flowers, with a few female or hermaphrodite flowers.

Subgynoecious has mostly female flowers, with a few male or hermaphrodite flowers.

Polygamy, plants with male, female, and perfect (hermaphrodite) flowers on the same plant, called trimonoecious or polygamomonoecious plants, (see next section for use for plant populations).[8] A polygamous inflorescence has both unisexual and bisexual flowers.[9]

Trimonoecious (polygamous) - male, female, and hermaphrodite floral morphs all appear on the same plant.
Diclinous ("two beds"), an angiosperm term, includes all species with unisexual flowers, although particularly those with only unisexual flowers, i.e. the monoecious and dioecious species.

 

[bombadil.360]

Tom,

did you miss my question a few pages ago? or is it a stupid question?

just asking out of curiosity and to learn a bit about your day-to-day practices.

thanks in advance

peace!

Hello Tom

Question if I may:

lets say you want to make a cross between deep chunk and haze (propbably you already have and I don't have seeds of those!); how would you go about this?

would you select only females from both deep chunk and haze and then stress either one to pollinate the other?

or do you go the traditional way?

thanks!

 

[Big City]

Tom,

did you miss my question a few pages ago? or is it a stupid question?

just asking out of curiosity and to learn a bit about your day-to-day practices.

thanks in advance

peace!

Tom already has made that cross.

I believe he started with 10 Haze males and 2 stellar DC females.

Then open pollinated a 100 (I think) of the F1's to make an F2 cross to look for some special individual plants. Those F2's were also available at the Boo.

Here's a thread:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=204443

 

[sso]

i personally, would rather buy regular seed than fem. (i just think this practice of femming, no males scenario, is gonna cause problems in the long run, that is my feeling on the matter ) (my feelings on matters usually turn out to be true )



the only scenario where i might buy fem? some highly sought after strain that is only available as a fem.

sooner or later im going to get bored with it anyway and mix it with something.


though frankly i find no reason to buy at all.


i usually always happen upon someone with clones or some seeds they found in some bag.


first of all, hermying nearly always is the fault of the grower.

so its not a problem. meaning that i get quality genetics more often than not (since most growers, buy just that lol )

as it is , i got much more seeds(from own breeding attempts and gifts) than i could test out in a long time and im sure to score some other seeds in the meantime.


plus im finding these high prices ridiculous and this femming practice rather

silly.

 

[BlueGrassToker]

No offense, sso...but what's "silly" is to think that our gut feelings can trump true scientific information. Every little bit of what is being discussed here has been researched and written about in published scientific white papers. And if one would challenge their own gut feelings and actually research the subject, they might find that their own "feelings" about this issue were a bit lacking when compared to the reality of things.

In reality, the practice of feminizing cannabis provides quite a few positive points to the art of its breeding. You will be hard pressed to present us with any negative aspects of the practice at all. I'd love to hear anything that could possibly be detrimental to any cannabis population but I have yet to see any valid points made by the naysayers...other than it goes against their "gut feelings"

And I ask....are we here to gather good info derived from cold hard facts, or are we here to continue myths derived from the gut feelings of the less than learned?

 

[mofeta]

I think it would be good to think about what Tom said about the term "feminization". In the context of breeding, this is misleading.

If Tom were to use a reversed female as a pollen parent, it wouldn't be because he was wanting all female offspring. It would be that he wanted pollen from a plant that was phenotyped for the important female traits he wanted.

The "feminization" or all female offspring is a side-effect of the process, not the goal.

EDIT: Another point about this is that I don't think Tom, or anyone else advocating the use of this technique has suggested that reversal replace traditional FxM mating. All he is saying is that it is a very valuable, powerful technique when used in the proper context.