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Please breeders we still want regular seeds too...
- Thread starter funkpew
- Start date
Koufax goes into his stretch, eyeballs the runner at first, wondering if he'll post more hotties
I will find a hottie for every potential negative/positive other than ones listed
It is pretty much finished other than that now it was not letting me edit for some reason anymore saying I had more pictures than allowed but I did not so I removed 2 and put in the corrections and rearranged for better flow just now.
Wait, where are the negatives? Surely you aren't tryna get away with mixing up the first step of a haploid DOUBLING process with varying selection methods that reversals open up to us? :/
edit, I will wait as I see you're not finished with the posts. Please do post any negatives you find under the heading of negatives, so that we can all take proper aim. PS, Double haploid tech is really another thread and has nothing to do with reversals. -T
edit, I will wait as I see you're not finished with the posts. Please do post any negatives you find under the heading of negatives, so that we can all take proper aim. PS, Double haploid tech is really another thread and has nothing to do with reversals. -T
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I wasn't the double haploid stuff was supposed to be edited out and it did not do it when I was having problems with the error. I just took it out very sorry.
Now does it make sense? Did I forget any arguments or leave any I am unaware of out?
I basically wanted to just show a summary of everything said and argued and highlight good and bad at the end (while providing basic breeding info for the neophyte like myself). This way we don't have ya repeating shit 3745893724589072 times you can just link the summary or something heh. Some of it is me making "mock arguments" maybe I should denote that. If am confusing stuff let me know I have lots to learn.
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What will dominate the market will be real breeding eventually. Homogeneity reached through either hererozygosity or homozygosity, more often the former for the gardener/grower. Tissue culture for those who know exactly what they want be they growers or breeders, and techs like haploid doubling/reverse breeding for those who'd like to preserve exact genotypes for longer periods and more simply than tissue culture currently can.
Maybe I am looking at something you're not but in post 192 there is the word "positives" written at the top, at the bottom of the post the word "negatives" is written, inbetween the two are quotes. Which are the positives, and which are the negatives?
Above that post is one where examples of inbreeding depression is displayed (forgive my french, but those two inbred looking fucks) for us in picture format, but I was of the understanding that we all understood this was a function of numbers, so what is it doing there?
If you want variable results I doubt there will ever be any shortage of folks who'll offer it, but really, that has jack shit to do with the state of the genepool or any of that.
It is the breeders job to do things such as maintaining diversity so that he can draw from it. It's the customers job to point and click based on a description that hopefully holds true to what is written.
Maybe I am looking at something you're not but in post 192 there is the word "positives" written at the top, at the bottom of the post the word "negatives" is written, inbetween the two are quotes. Which are the positives, and which are the negatives?
Above that post is one where examples of inbreeding depression is displayed (forgive my french, but those two inbred looking fucks) for us in picture format, but I was of the understanding that we all understood this was a function of numbers, so what is it doing there?
If you want variable results I doubt there will ever be any shortage of folks who'll offer it, but really, that has jack shit to do with the state of the genepool or any of that.
It is the breeders job to do things such as maintaining diversity so that he can draw from it. It's the customers job to point and click based on a description that hopefully holds true to what is written.
Gotch ya. I think I ordered it properly now that was a pretty bad mishmash lol ;\ Probably should have done it sober. Thanks much appreciated.
Sober I would totally be 237649012749081720% smarter. I signed up for local gardening classes and I got a sponsorship to compete in the national rye grass growing competition.
No one can compete with me. Not even Koufax you got me confused, I am Kenny Powers.
[YOUTUBEIF]Rly1ZZ076G8[/YOUTUBEIF]
No one can compete with me. Not even Koufax you got me confused, I am Kenny Powers.
[YOUTUBEIF]Rly1ZZ076G8[/YOUTUBEIF]
There are negatives too bro. Like for example if you were to take away from this thread that selfing is without it's problems eg flirting with inbreeding depression. There are certainly issues to be taken into account, but as long as they are understood, as long as we expect eg 8 of 10 selfed families to fail, and provision for that, then we are making some progress.
Can you please talk a bit more about the other, less-known negatives of selfing, Tom? Thanks.
M.
The biggest negative of selfing is that you'll get a bunch of know-nothing morons hammering you for things that they do not understand. Seriously though, inbreeding depression will be the biggest obstacle, but one that is quite easily bypassed through numbers. IE take several shots at it, expecting only a couple to hit paydirt. This is all in the manual and should not be news to any breeder imo.
For example, do not take Pre98 Bubba, self it, then self just a single individual out of her progeny as I am doing with the bombthreat Bubba (#7), lol. Instead, grow enough Pre98 S1's out to find several individuals that are outstanding, and self those, expecting no matter how awesome they all are, that many families in that project will fail. Cull those families that fail, and bulk together (to restore some of the deficit of heterozygous plants) the highest ranking families. This is an extremely powerful and proven method, only a damn fool would dis it imo.
heh
does that work with polyhybrid f1s too?
Normally come to threads for the boobs and stay for the content...
came to the thread for the info's, stayed for the bewbs.
Hey TH,
Your explination of the values of selfing haven't fallen on deaf ears. Having read you explain it X amount of times in this thread was helpful to drive the point home, haha. After reviewing the entire thread, seems like a powerful tool indeed for breeding programs.
Very informative, thanks to you and the others for sharing thoughts on the topic.
came to the thread for the info's, stayed for the bewbs.
Hey TH,
Your explination of the values of selfing haven't fallen on deaf ears. Having read you explain it X amount of times in this thread was helpful to drive the point home, haha. After reviewing the entire thread, seems like a powerful tool indeed for breeding programs.
Very informative, thanks to you and the others for sharing thoughts on the topic.
Kief the kneejerk answer is there is no such thing as a polyhybrid F1 as the term polyhybrid has to do with several (poly) differing traits we might be tracking through a selection program and is not necessarily a product of how many parental inputs there were - ie, two (any only two) pure lines crossed can give rise to a polyhybrid at some point of the ped providing the observer is observing 3 or more differing traits in the progeny. We should not be observing differing traits in an F1 hybrid. It, by definition should be homogeneous/uniform, reached through heterozygosity. IE, all plants in that scenario should look something like AaBbCcEe, and thus all look the same/homogeneous. Second answer is yes it should work from the F1, it will just take one more generation longer to get there than from any other generation as pesky mendelian laws get in the way using that as a starting point. Other potential problem areas would be addativity etc/incomplete dominance where a given trait may be required to be expressed in a heterozygous condition (Aa etc), and we can't fix that into a line. This would be the the type of point someone like Chimera would bring to the table if he was here, you tryna rain on my parade?
I suppose the term 4way hybrid would be better, I would just assume like you stated you the phenotypes of the generation in question to be selfed would be more complex.
I was more wondering I suppose on some sexual traits but if the f1 in question has some intersexed issues could you possibly bred that one trait out with selfing (that's assuming that the offspring are worthy of keeping)
I was more wondering I suppose on some sexual traits but if the f1 in question has some intersexed issues could you possibly bred that one trait out with selfing (that's assuming that the offspring are worthy of keeping)
I truly believe intersex traits will be much more complex than some like to make it sound, tied to a number of quantitative traits having to do with resistance to different stressors. That being said, while folk are worried about reversals and selfing causing intersex plants, the truth is that by no other means do we stand as good a chance of making progress with that pesky trait.
