Rtaym22224
Active member
People have said my fox farm nutes are hot and suck. Can someone recommend a good brand and nute products that aren’t over concentrated I’m ok with organic or synthetic whatever will give the best results
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Plant leaves feeling dry/paper like
- Thread starter Rtaym22224
- Start date
Sorry i can’t recommend nutrients, cause i don’t know what they sell on that side of the pond..
But if you want to use bottle nutrients you actually want well concentrated stuff (= the bottle lasts longer) and not some diluted crap cause then you pay a lot just for the water in it.
What ever nutrient brand you’re gonna use, you need to learn how to use them for cannabis – different genetics like different strength and NPK ratio - and not to follow what the manufacturer tells you to use in ml/L. Because usually you have to use only 50% of what they recommend.
If you use mineral based stuff and use a EC/pmm meter any brand should be ok. Where things might go wrong is when you follow some ml/L type dosages they give you
Most nutes aren’t specifically made for cannabis so their recommendations don’t usually apply for cannabis growing
But if you want to use bottle nutrients you actually want well concentrated stuff (= the bottle lasts longer) and not some diluted crap cause then you pay a lot just for the water in it.
What ever nutrient brand you’re gonna use, you need to learn how to use them for cannabis – different genetics like different strength and NPK ratio - and not to follow what the manufacturer tells you to use in ml/L. Because usually you have to use only 50% of what they recommend.
If you use mineral based stuff and use a EC/pmm meter any brand should be ok. Where things might go wrong is when you follow some ml/L type dosages they give you
Most nutes aren’t specifically made for cannabis so their recommendations don’t usually apply for cannabis growing
Okay you're still not getting it. Because you used an organic soil mix preloaded with nutrients you never stopped feeding it. All you stopped was adding unneeded nutrients on top of the nutrients in your soil already and this is one of the things that eventually got you in trouble. Your watering is not on point it's within an acceptable range for a couple of days but it's still technically a little high. Now just after a couple of days of the watering being under control you're wanting to give the plants more then what is already in the soil, why? Is it just because you think you have the previous problems under control now? Because if that's your reason that's the wrong reason to feed a plant growing in an organic soil mixture. The correct answer to why would be that your plant is showing you a deficiency for something and you've identified what that is and you're only going to add just that to the next watering.
Now will it always be like this, where you just give water because everything the plant needs is in the soil? Probably not, most likely this mix was meant to get you thru veg and into the start of flower. In flower is where it is most likely to start running low on the food in the soil and start needing it from a different source such as a bottled nutrient. My advice would be to use a mixture of Foxfarm Grow Big, Big Bloom and Tiger Bloom. Since they're made by the same company, Fox Farms, they're made to work well with the soil. In fact the nutrients in the bottle from FoxFarm are also organic and derived from the same things as was in the soil.
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You have to be careful when people say things like this. If you treat Fox Farm soil mixes like just any other potting soil and try to start adding nutrients before your plants show signs of needing anything, likely trying to force them to get bigger faster by giving them more food then they need then yeah it's going to seem like it's too hot. Most enriched soil mixes like Miracle Grow Potting soil is enriched with a water soluble chemical fert that is only going to be enough for an active cannabis plant for about the first 2/3rds of veg (assuming an 8 week veg) before it runs out and needs to be supplemented by some form of bottled nutrient. Now if a person used to this suddenly switches to Fox Farm because they suddenly wanted to do the right thing by their plant and use something organic, but then continues to treat it like it's miracle grow and adds nutrients, then yeah it's going to seem hot and they'll probably feel it sucks because they're not able to do what they want. That does not make the FoxFarm Ocean Forest bad or hot, it just makes it improperly used. For one thing being organic, the food in the soil is not the same as the water soluble chemicals in Miracle Grow soil. It's not going to wash away as easy giving a reason to add nutrient right away. It's going to need to be broken down into a form the plant's roots can uptake and if you haven't done something to create a solid root biome like adding FoxFarm Happy Frog soil mix (loaded with humic acid and beneficial microbes know as mycorrhizae) those mycorrhizae will form a symbiotic relationship with your plants roots and will help the plant break down the organic foods in the soil. Also it's important to note that one of the claims of FoxFarm Ocean Forest is it helps to retain moisture. It does this thru the use of sphagnum peat moss mostly which behaves differently then other soil mixes and if the grower isn't aware of this and adjust properly they could easily find themselves running into watering issues and blaming it on how bad FoxFarm Ocean Forest is.
Ca++
Well-known member
@HempKat
5 days ago he had 500w over his plants, and has been creeping? it up since. He does have a light meter reading he could share, and reading back too thread two on this matter, he is around 900ppfd 24 hours a day. Like 1200ppfd if it was 18/6. In veg, with sick plants.
CO2 isn't the problem, because it's not?
Feed isn't the problem. He didn't use that long list of additives he told us he used. We should recommend another feed to use.
His roots he can't see are fine.
He sprays them with calmag as that's the only way to keep them alive.
Lets say you really wanted to grow a plant up like this. I'm just planning here, But I think I could. I would give it loads of Ca to slow water movement. While it restricted K to stop water retention. Then try and run photosynthesis flat out to use up the water what was there. Under LED we wouldn't see burn so much, but we would see the stripes, where they are. The Ca would also suppress P and slow repairs. Then we could feed the medium so much the plant wouldn't drink. Maybe we could even burn the roots for good measure.
Yes, I reckon I could do it.
It makes me think about the work done here on Ca loading. Where once into flower and bang at it, you reduce the Ca or it will hamper progress at a higher rate of photosynthesis. Slowing water movement directly, and effecting retention though K antagonism. Causing that quick foliage collapse that banging the lights up often causes people. Though this is only theory we spoke of here, backed up by peoples experiences that kept the chat going.
The troll will now tell us it's LED radiation. The photons are carrying dark matter that nobody has ever seen. It actually is the extra radiation of course. Increasing photosynthesis, which demands the water to split. Rapid collapse should follow if the plant can't meet demand. We can slow loss with more RH, or thin the blood with more heat. It's just covering up the symptoms though.
Our most serious contender here has suggested it's P and perhaps due to the Ca relationship. Asked if he had tried that suggestion from a few threads back, I saw no response. Just spraying with calmag. The enemy.
I had a difficult gardener once. I had to hide dataloggers in the room to finally pin him down to the truth. Upon which the loggers must of been faulty, then somehow fell in the tank one by one. He was doing things like unplugging the pump, so the tank would last longer. Convinced that wasn't the problem, he would say he didn't do it. The lids off the broken pH meters were only off, as he was just in the middle of using the dried out things as I called around. That's why the humidifier wasn't on. Just while he was working. Can I fix the problem. It must be something else.
Another killed the algae on the blocks, using something from the kitchen that killed the plants. Then tried to switch them and delay my visit. Their friend came round and told me it was all too complicated. Their bother just had a little solar powered fan in an open window. This was a few thousand watts grow. Next you know, it's always too hot in there, and the fans off but window open. I quit.
You have to quickly judge if people are listening, and walk away if you must. Doing something crap is pointless.
The canna terra range needs feeding from the start. That might fix the compulsion to feed. Though the co2 and high light will still kill them. It does like some tap (not ro) and calmag, so they won't die from that unless he sprays them. Just need to not take the world standard substrate and try to make something better. No quiet sprinkle of the special recipe. I think it's too much to work around though.
I had a friend exhibit blind faith. He would choose who to listen to, and then they were right, and there was no going back. Logic couldn't prevail. He eventually fell into a cult religion and we let him go. 40 years friendship, but he just couldn't get a grip on who really mattered to him. Sits at his mums watching beheading's on his own now. Surfing that invites only site, which he thinks is the fountain of all knowledge. It's quite sad, and sickening. He has chosen his path though.
5 days ago he had 500w over his plants, and has been creeping? it up since. He does have a light meter reading he could share, and reading back too thread two on this matter, he is around 900ppfd 24 hours a day. Like 1200ppfd if it was 18/6. In veg, with sick plants.
CO2 isn't the problem, because it's not?
Feed isn't the problem. He didn't use that long list of additives he told us he used. We should recommend another feed to use.
His roots he can't see are fine.
He sprays them with calmag as that's the only way to keep them alive.
Lets say you really wanted to grow a plant up like this. I'm just planning here, But I think I could. I would give it loads of Ca to slow water movement. While it restricted K to stop water retention. Then try and run photosynthesis flat out to use up the water what was there. Under LED we wouldn't see burn so much, but we would see the stripes, where they are. The Ca would also suppress P and slow repairs. Then we could feed the medium so much the plant wouldn't drink. Maybe we could even burn the roots for good measure.
Yes, I reckon I could do it.
It makes me think about the work done here on Ca loading. Where once into flower and bang at it, you reduce the Ca or it will hamper progress at a higher rate of photosynthesis. Slowing water movement directly, and effecting retention though K antagonism. Causing that quick foliage collapse that banging the lights up often causes people. Though this is only theory we spoke of here, backed up by peoples experiences that kept the chat going.
The troll will now tell us it's LED radiation. The photons are carrying dark matter that nobody has ever seen. It actually is the extra radiation of course. Increasing photosynthesis, which demands the water to split. Rapid collapse should follow if the plant can't meet demand. We can slow loss with more RH, or thin the blood with more heat. It's just covering up the symptoms though.
Our most serious contender here has suggested it's P and perhaps due to the Ca relationship. Asked if he had tried that suggestion from a few threads back, I saw no response. Just spraying with calmag. The enemy.
I had a difficult gardener once. I had to hide dataloggers in the room to finally pin him down to the truth. Upon which the loggers must of been faulty, then somehow fell in the tank one by one. He was doing things like unplugging the pump, so the tank would last longer. Convinced that wasn't the problem, he would say he didn't do it. The lids off the broken pH meters were only off, as he was just in the middle of using the dried out things as I called around. That's why the humidifier wasn't on. Just while he was working. Can I fix the problem. It must be something else.
Another killed the algae on the blocks, using something from the kitchen that killed the plants. Then tried to switch them and delay my visit. Their friend came round and told me it was all too complicated. Their bother just had a little solar powered fan in an open window. This was a few thousand watts grow. Next you know, it's always too hot in there, and the fans off but window open. I quit.
You have to quickly judge if people are listening, and walk away if you must. Doing something crap is pointless.
The canna terra range needs feeding from the start. That might fix the compulsion to feed. Though the co2 and high light will still kill them. It does like some tap (not ro) and calmag, so they won't die from that unless he sprays them. Just need to not take the world standard substrate and try to make something better. No quiet sprinkle of the special recipe. I think it's too much to work around though.
I had a friend exhibit blind faith. He would choose who to listen to, and then they were right, and there was no going back. Logic couldn't prevail. He eventually fell into a cult religion and we let him go. 40 years friendship, but he just couldn't get a grip on who really mattered to him. Sits at his mums watching beheading's on his own now. Surfing that invites only site, which he thinks is the fountain of all knowledge. It's quite sad, and sickening. He has chosen his path though.
Blaah-blaah..
I have actually said photons act as heat radiation carriers via concentrated photon beams, which warm up the plant tissue cause they create hot spots. It’s nothing more esoteric than that, dip shit.
You just want to twist things and make made up statements about dark matter or whatever cause you can’t comprehend a simple fact and so you turn to stand up comedy and false statements. Typical behavior by immature people who can’t admit when they’re wrong.
If it would be just “too much of cold light” why does fan blowing on the plants make it worse if it’s not a dehydration issue by the leds in the first place.
Place a RH meter close/under to your led lights, keep it there for several minutes and see what happens to the RH% while the temp is rising. For me, with my Cree cobs, the RH% drops dramatically. My RH meter isn’t photosynthetic plant matter, is it.
Why does the air go dry that the meter is measuring? IF the air goes dry when leds warm it up right under the light, it will also go drier where these photon beams hit the plant if they’re still too warm. Can you explain that, cause it’s not about photosynthesis?..and try it before you start talking back, two bit.
It’s a simple test you can do at home.
But you’re not gonna do this test cause then you’d have to admit that i’m right and you’re wrong – and you’re not the kind of person who admits it publically.
Just like you won’t admit to me that you haven’t grown the same cut side by side in coco and in soil,like i have (my G13Haze), while you still pretend you’re qualified to lecture me about it.
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@Rtaym22224
500 watts of light is too much for plants that are recovering. I missed that post.
Plants don’t need this much light when they’re vegging, esp. when they are recovering from stress.
And you’re actually wasting energy (money) when you keep your light hanging that high up and use that much wattage. The best efficiency with leds is to find the right balance of hanging height and power usage, as i told you.
You could get the same growth rate with half the power and hanging your light lower.
I told you not to prune heavily when the plants are stressed already. I told you to go easy with them for the next few weeks till they start growing normally again – and then you prune them heavily and snap the stem from one of them cause you bent it down heavily. Bending plants down and pruning them will stress them even more. No wonder it’s yellowing when you snapped the stem.
It’s better to raise the shorter plants closer to the taller one and bend it down a little bit, rather than bending the tall one heavily to the level of much shorter ones.
You really are asking for more problems cause you constantly seem to do something people advice you not to do. You clearly want to rush things and make your plants go big as fast as you can – but it may turn out that you will run in to more problems by pushing them too much.
You should pay more attention on what people are telling you – people have used quite a bit of time trying to advice you but you constantly want to make things your own way, and then end up snapping a stem or what ever, messing your plant up again. Don’t push your luck too much with your plants if you want your grow to succeed and actually get to bloom them one day..
Good luck
I don't know guys, I could be wrong but going back and forth with each other isn't really going to help anyone. We've given the OP our best guess as to what his problems are and how to solve them. It's now on him to decide what works and what doesn't and go with it. My guess is this is why Creeperpark has gone quite, he has given his best advise and the OP needs to use it or not. You can lead the horse to water but you can't make it drink. I'm at about the same point myself. I see the problem pretty clearly now and I've done my best to explain in clear simple terms on how the OP should move forward. Is he going to listen to me or is he going to start force feeding his plants again (even if it's just lightly)? I don't really know. It's like the CO2 issue, which to be clear has little to nothing to do with the problems being reported. I gave my thoughts on it and the OP even agrees with a lot of what I said but in the end he doesn't mind that it's complicates his environment making it that much harder to dial in, he doesn't mind the potential health risk it represents for him, he doesn't mind the added expense and he feels that he has seen benefits from using it that are worthwhile. So what more can I say to that? All we can do is advise people but in the end they have to take that advise and use it or not. We at that point can only move on.
jackspratt61
Active member
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Cerathule
Well-known member
that's way too low EC imo
Rtaym22224
Active member
I am taking advice from this thread quote a bit. Since I first started posting here I’ve come a really long way.
My plants are 3 months into veg with stems 2.25”-3” in diameter in 1 gal grow bags. Time to transplant. Problem is I need to flower within four weeks or I will run out of space.
Should I go from a fully rooted 1gal to a 3 gal bag, or straight to a 5gal let’s say filled with 4 gal of soil?
My plants are 3 months into veg with stems 2.25”-3” in diameter in 1 gal grow bags. Time to transplant. Problem is I need to flower within four weeks or I will run out of space.
Should I go from a fully rooted 1gal to a 3 gal bag, or straight to a 5gal let’s say filled with 4 gal of soil?
Once you flip to 12/12 your roots are only going to grow aggressively for about 2-3 weeks (the stretch phase) they'll still grow slightly after that but not enough to worry too much about. Normally I would say based on my own experiences transplant into 5 gallon containers. But in my experiences my plants had already started becoming root bound in 3 gallon pots after just 8 weeks of veg. Yours being able to hold out for 3 months of veg in one gallon pots/bags is evidence of much slower growth then I'm used to so it's hard for me to advise but if 1 gallon was good enough for 3 months then giving 2 more gallons by bumping them up to 3 gallons should be more then enough to get them thru flower.
Rtaym22224
Active member
Did this plant herm? Got some VERY aggressive bending going on with this indica.
I'm not certain what you're looking at that is making you wonder if it hermed but all I'm seeing is pre-flowers (females) that shouldn't be but look kind of like they're dying off but that's not all that unusual given the troubles and stress that plant has had. Now the buds should grow in the same areas and other areas as well so don't worry too much about the pre-flowers if they do die off. When I say they shouldn't be dying off under normal conditions with no problems and little to no stress the pre-flowers will hang in there pretty much thru flower. Again though given what this plant's been thru it's not surprising that they're looking kind of rough. IMHO
Rtaym22224
Active member
Ok thanks
Rtaym22224
Active member
I have one plant in a 3 gal that was stunted for almost two months. It’s going into a 7 gal tomorrow with 6 gallons of soil in the 7 gal bag.
I’m putting my three rootbound plants that are in 1 gal bags into 5 gal bags with 4.3gal of soil in each bag.
I’m going to use fox farm ocean forest, 2” lava rocks bottom of each grow bag, I add 2 cups compost to my soil, I won’t add anything else not even perlite.
I want to give the plants 4 weeks to root in the new bags but I’m running out of veg time I need to flower within a month or my plants will be too big.
Can I flower right after transplanting?
Should I continue to prune, bend, in flowering?
Is it ok to start flowering 2-3 weeks after transplant? My plants are getting so big I only have 2-4
Weeks max of veg left before I need to flip 12/12
And lastly co2 will do nothing for me in flower correct?
I’m putting my three rootbound plants that are in 1 gal bags into 5 gal bags with 4.3gal of soil in each bag.
I’m going to use fox farm ocean forest, 2” lava rocks bottom of each grow bag, I add 2 cups compost to my soil, I won’t add anything else not even perlite.
I want to give the plants 4 weeks to root in the new bags but I’m running out of veg time I need to flower within a month or my plants will be too big.
Can I flower right after transplanting?
Should I continue to prune, bend, in flowering?
Is it ok to start flowering 2-3 weeks after transplant? My plants are getting so big I only have 2-4
Weeks max of veg left before I need to flip 12/12
And lastly co2 will do nothing for me in flower correct?
Rtaym22224
Active member
Sherbadough is stressed as fuck from an overfeeding, the break I put in the stem, the branches on the underside of the stem I cut off (about 4-5 branches) and the bending. My plants are all looking really good though I’ve learned a shit ton In this thread and my other primary thread. It’s obvious I am learning from mistakes and not repeating them and my plants look very healthy.
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You could switch to flower right after transplant but a lot of growers give the plants about a week to recover from any potential transplant shock. The first phase of flower is the stretch phase which lasts between 2-3 weeks. During this stage plants can double and even triple in size but in my experience it's usually closer to double then triple. This stage starts off kind of slow but really picks up speed after the first week which is why you can get away with switching to 12/12 after transplant. As long as you are careful with the root ball when you transplant the plant should get over any shock it might experience in just a few days it may even not experience any real shock at all but you should definitely transplant first then flip to 12/12 after for best results. In my opinion the amount of soil you're planning on transplanting to is more then will be needed and ultimately some of that will be wasted but it could be argued that it's better to err on the side of caution by giving more then is need rather then risk not giving it enough. The thing that makes me thing smaller amounts like 3 gallons for the 1 gallon plants and 5 gallons for the 3 gallon plant is that you're using Fox Farm Ocean Forest which is pretty expensive compared to other soil options. Obviously if it's okay to switch to flower right away then it's okay to wait another 2-4 weeks. If you do decide to wait two to 4 weeks then there will be less risk of soil going to waste. The thing to keep in mind is that once you get past the stretch phase root development tend to slow down significantly in my experience. Then again all this stuff about how much and how fast plants grow in flower is somewhat strain dependent. As far as bending in flower aka training, sure you can still do that during the stretch phase but once you get past the stretch phase it's best to stop. There is a style of growing known as ScrOG (Screen of Green where you place a screen just above the plants and you train the plants to fill up about 2/3rds of the screen before switching to flower and then train the additional growth in the stretch phase of flower to fill up the remaining 3rd. Once the buds really start to take off that's when you don't want to be stressing the plant with a bunch of training. As far as pruning that's kind of a matter of personal opinion. Some feel it's okay to prune away excess leaf growth if they are block bud sites so that the maximum amount of light hits the bud sites directly. Others look at leaves as being the power source that drives growth and if you do to much pruning you're stealing potential growth from the bud sites. So it really comes down to which side of that debate you fall on. My personal take is to not prune leaves that are healthy but if you feel some leaves are blocking bud sites you can kind of bend them away from the bud sites.
As far as CO2 in flower to be honest I'm not really sure. I've never used CO2 and am not really a big fan of using it so I don't really know. The impression I've always had though is CO2 is more for veg then flower but since I'm not a fan of CO2 supplementation I've never really paid attention to whether it's used in flower or if people stop using it when the switch to flower.
Rtaym22224
Active member
All four plants had extremely healthy root systems when removed from their 1 gal grow bags. They were fully rooted.
Three days ago I moved all four plants into 5 gal grow bags filled with 4.2gal fox farm
Ocean forest, 3 cups compost/mychorizzhae mixed in to each grow bag. Lava rocks on the bottom of each bag.
The plants seemed to have no transplant shock whatsoever. They are taking off on their new 5 gal homes. I notice no signs of transplant stress.
I am going to have to initiate flowering soon. I’m going to wait three more weeks giving the plants a little more time to adjust to the larger grow bags. At the end of it I will remove the weakest plant and flower only 3 of them. I have been vegging for a long time and I’m proud of how thick my stems are.
This plant is extremely bushy with a ton of large fan leaves blocking light to bud sites. I’m debating whether to start pruning to allow more light to hit bud terminals. In reading what the guy above said I’m not sure whether to do it or not. This is the plant I’m speaking of. I have never had to cut a single leaf off this plant I have never had a leaf even slightly yellow.
Three days ago I moved all four plants into 5 gal grow bags filled with 4.2gal fox farm
Ocean forest, 3 cups compost/mychorizzhae mixed in to each grow bag. Lava rocks on the bottom of each bag.
The plants seemed to have no transplant shock whatsoever. They are taking off on their new 5 gal homes. I notice no signs of transplant stress.
I am going to have to initiate flowering soon. I’m going to wait three more weeks giving the plants a little more time to adjust to the larger grow bags. At the end of it I will remove the weakest plant and flower only 3 of them. I have been vegging for a long time and I’m proud of how thick my stems are.
This plant is extremely bushy with a ton of large fan leaves blocking light to bud sites. I’m debating whether to start pruning to allow more light to hit bud terminals. In reading what the guy above said I’m not sure whether to do it or not. This is the plant I’m speaking of. I have never had to cut a single leaf off this plant I have never had a leaf even slightly yellow.
