Plant leaves feeling dry/paper like

[GoatCheese]

Yeah, you did make that 65% claim the other week, then days later said something quite different. I'm not on a crusade though. I liked it when you said you were ignoring me tbh. I have seen your posts here, all about the drying effect of the LED heat lamps as always. I just ignore it. As I have ignored the AC. These are your focus. I don't really care if he has AC or not, his numbers are what matters. Not how he got there. You may think I'm not seeing these things. The fact is, I'm just not talking about stuff like what time his postman comes, as it's not my focus. You can see my focus. That is the important thing. Can I move on? Of course not. There is nowhere to go.

His temps and RH% numbers are what his meter shows and it shows the ambient of where it was placed in the tent. Get it? You have a narrow way of thinking.

::

It’s a CLAIM i have my humidity around 65-70%?! ..you’re still implying you know it better than i do. See how you behave.

Do you spend a minute thinking about the stuff your mind spills out?

You clearly have issues. Your behavior is compulsory – you have trouble controlling it. As a smart person you do realize this. You even say it in your posts “i just can’t move on until...”.

Take a pill.

 

[HempKat]

As this soil is a well regarded 50L sack, I wouldn't do a soil analysis. Though I would like to see one in this instance, it would be purely academic.

An analysis is great in a field, where you must work with the soil you have. The results are not perfect though. It could count calcium and phosphates, with little regard to how they exist. The pH could of gone out, making the unavailable calcium-phosphate compound. The count may still be the same. Different extraction methods are more suited to different circumstances. The results are not the holy grail, but rather a very useful tool. $30? why not..

That sack of well regarded soil has had all the testing it needs. There could be a bad batch, or a bad result from polluting it. Testing would be interesting for future recognition of the issue. I suspect excess K. However the answer is always going to be the same. That soil works, so not messing about with it is the best way to know it's not the problem.

I take one look at the plants in this thread and the last, and see the same over fertilisation problems, while pushing hard with the lighting. Water movement is being restricted by high ec issues to my eye. Everything I have then read, has just been confirmation. Though I still might be wrong, it does seem logical when all the pieces come together.

People using this soil and messing up their grow by feeding it or amending it is very common. I really can't move on until this is addressed. If I claimed to be 100% sure, I wouldn't be worth listening to. I think it's the only place to start though, with a very high likelihood of success.

What would be nice is to see the results of someone using this soil like other well made organic soils. Which is to say using this soil and only giving water until such time as the plant indicates it's needing something and the grower correctly identifies the issue and adds only what is needed. There may indeed be a grow that documents precisely this but if there is I've yet to see it. The problem as I see it is products made by companies like Fox Farms are aimed more at the inexperienced grower with the aim of convincing them that using these products will give them good results. This is then compounded by the fact there is little to no information on how to correctly use such products. The people that do know aren't likely to buy such products because they have enough knowledge to create them themselves. Nor are they likely to stumble across the lack of good information because their skills are at a level where they aren't needing help. So you end up with well meaning people using these products but not understanding how to properly use them and you end up with erroneous evaluations such as "This soil is too hot."

 

[Rtaym22224]

Plants are all improving. Added a second humidifier and running temps at 79 stable rh 71.5% -73%. Running just one humidifier wasn’t enough I think I was only managing to maintain 68% RH in an uneven way in my tent.
Since adding the second humidifier all plants have visibly perked up quite a bit in only twelve hours.

I have my 760w light set to 70% power with my light 3.2 ft above my canopy. Over the last few weeks I’ve gradually been increasing light intensity.

I am going to move these plants from their 1 gal bags to 5 gal bags with 4 gal of soil in each bag. I will do this in ten days they’re almost fully rooted. Stems are very thick and solid.

This plant is stressed and just got bent over, I bent it a little too far disturbing the root system but watered it well and kind of packed the soil where the roots want to come out. It’s leaning on its side right where I want it without a tie at all, and the plant is still getting nutrient and water transport even with the severe bend as all the bud terminals look solid. I trimmed weak growth off the plant after bending it and I cut off growth off that would be growing on the underside of the bent over plant .
but even beforrr bending and stressing this plant I’m seeing symptoms in leaves. It’s not from “the bottom up” i notice it in 4-5 fan leaves towards the top

What is this a sign of?

I plan to start flowering in 5-9 weeks

 

[Rtaym22224]

My other plants are recovering and looking good to me . I did some aggressive pruning in early veg these plants were also stunted for about two weeks from overfeeding. I have an even canopy with four different strains. The Sativa dom just got bent on its side yesterday and I’ll continue each day to increase the bend.

 

[GoatCheese]

Looking much better. Good that you didn’t give up on them.
Yea, it’s quite amazing how much just a fan direction affects things when you’re growing with modern leds.

Just keep taking easy with them for the next few weeks. Those will blow up nicely once they really get going.Try to keep the temps at around 27-28c and RH% around 60-70 and i'm sure you will be fine.

For the future when you start blooming them - Most cannabis plants don’t need higher EC than 1.5. Many landrace genetics and their hybrids even less, around EC 1.0-1.2

Good luck. Take it easy. Hope all goes well from now on.

 

[Rtaym22224]

Looking much better. Good that you didn’t give up on them.
Yea, it’s quite amazing how much just a fan direction affects things when you’re growing with modern leds.

Just keep taking easy with them for the next few weeks. Those will blow up nicely once they really get going.Try to keep the temps at around 27-28c and RH% around 60-70 and i'm sure you will be fine.

For the future when you start blooming them - Most cannabis plants don’t need higher EC than 1.5. Many landrace genetics and their hybrids even less, around EC 1.0-1.2

Good luck. Take it easy. Hope all goes well from now on.

Thank you. Learning a ton and glad I didn’t give up on them either. I have perfected my watering and am not over feeding as I was previously. I think I finally have things dialed in pretty well. I really appreciate all the help and good info in this thread.
Adding a second humidifier to my tent also made a huge difference. And these plants are only alive because of this thread.

Just watered ec runoff was about 350ppm 6.9ph.

 

[GoatCheese]

The good thing about these kinds of difficulties is that they will teach you to read the plants and you'll start to understand what factors are causing these various issues.

Just remember that plants are individuals and even in the same seed bag some may be very easy to grow while some are more finicky; Some plants can handle leds quite well while some need more distance to the lights. Some plants can handle overwatering or drying out fairly well, while some plants like, some Haze phenos, don’t like over watering at all. Some plants don’t mind windier and colder environment, while some may almost completely stop growing in these kinds of conditions.

I’m sure you have to be tinkering with your set up as seasons change thru out the year.

It will also take a bit of learning to find the perfect balance of power and hanging height of your led light, which changes between summers and winters. You’ll see..

Good luck.

 

[HempKat]

Thank you. Learning a ton and glad I didn’t give up on them either. I have perfected my watering and am not over feeding as I was previously. I think I finally have things dialed in pretty well. I really appreciate all the help and good info in this thread.
Adding a second humidifier to my tent also made a huge difference. And these plants are only alive because of this thread.

Just watered ec runoff was about 350ppm 6.9ph.

6.9ph is starting to run on the high side for soil plants, it shouldn't cause you any serious issues if it doesn't go any higher but you really want to get that down closer to 6.5ph

 

[Rtaym22224]

6.9ph is starting to run on the high side for soil plants, it shouldn't cause you any serious issues if it doesn't go any higher but you really want to get that down closer to 6.5ph

Will do. I figured 6.7-.6.9 was ok glad to learn it should be 6.5

Is it ever appropriate to correct soil runoff Ph being too high (mines around 6.8-6.9) to water with ph 6.2 for example to lower it quickly
As opposed to just watering next watering with 6.5ph water?

 

[HempKat]

Will do. I figured 6.7-.6.9 was ok glad to learn it should be 6.5

Is it ever appropriate to correct soil runoff Ph being too high (mines around 6.8-6.9) to water with ph 6.2 for example to lower it quickly
As opposed to just watering next watering with 6.5ph water?

Will do. I figured 6.7-.6.9 was ok glad to learn it should be 6.5

Is it ever appropriate to correct soil runoff Ph being too high (mines around 6.8-6.9) to water with ph 6.2 for example to lower it quickly
As opposed to just watering next watering with 6.5ph water?

Well the proper range for soil is said to be 6.3 to 6.8 and as long as you're in that range you're okay but 6.5 is the sweet spot as it gives you to most room for things to change either way and still be in the good range. Also at 6.5 is where your plant in soil is getting the best availability to all micro and macro nutrients. As ph shifts the availability to nutrients doesn't cut off instantly like an on off switch, it decreases gradually like a dimmer switch until eventually you reach nutrient lock out.

Yes, the main reason to check the run off is that gives you the best picture of the ph the roots sees and so if it's way off you can add some ph adjusted water right away to try to bring it to an acceptable level. However it also tells you that next time maybe you need to adjust the ph before feeding so that when you do feed you're more where you want to be at. So yeah if your ph last time was a little high and your water from the tap is 6.5 then when you prepare to feed them next time maybe you reduce it a little. I would suggest though to try not to adjust too much at once but change it gradually. Sometimes small adjustments can cause a bigger shift. So in your case instead of going for 6.2 before feeding try 6.3 or even 6.4. If that moves things in the right direction but not quite where you want then the next time try the 6.2 or 6.3. With ph since it can play such a crucial role and dramatically impact your plants you want to take small baby steps, IMHO.

 

[Rtaym22224]

Thank you for that ^^

3 of my plants are healthy as can be this one is a bit stressed I recently bent it over snapped the stem about 15-20% tied it to a stake and bent it over some more. It’s also been aggressively pruned so it’s under stress.

New leaves are coming in looking like this. Something is off and I’m not sure what? Help?

 

[Ca++]

What would be nice is to see the results of someone using this soil like other well made organic soils.

This thread is a continuation of another, where @Creeperpark posted the pics you would like to see. I think he has removed them though, or my connection is timing out before they load.

Raised RH is a bandaid for problems at the root. I don't see anything as being fixed. Or any RH meter to know if I trust it.
Going into well used pebbles I have to dome the cuts from a waterfarm. They will grow the right roots, and get them spread through the imperfect pebbles, but it's a good week. The raised RH is intensive care. Stopping them pulling so much from the root where it's too salty. While also limiting losses at the root (that might make more sense said the other way around)

Edit: Losses at the leaves. My bad.

 

[jackspratt61]

Thank you for that ^^

3 of my plants are healthy as can be this one is a bit stressed I recently bent it over snapped the stem about 15-20% tied it to a stake and bent it over some more. It’s also been aggressively pruned so it’s under stress.

New leaves are coming in looking like this. Something is off and I’m not sure what? Help?

That's p and metals guy. Correct the ph. Always balance ca/p first.

 

[HempKat]

This thread is a continuation of another, where @Creeperpark posted the pics you would like to see. I think he has removed them though, or my connection is timing out before they load.

Raised RH is a bandaid for problems at the root. I don't see anything as being fixed. Or any RH meter to know if I trust it.
Going into well used pebbles I have to dome the cuts from a waterfarm. They will grow the right roots, and get them spread through the imperfect pebbles, but it's a good week. The raised RH is intensive care. Stopping them pulling so much from the root where it's too salty. While also limiting losses at the root (that might make more sense said the other way around)

Edit: Losses at the leaves. My bad.

Well I'm familiar enough with Creeperpark I don't even need to see the pics, if he says Foxfarm soil mixes are fine as is and any of them does well if you just give water and nothing else until such time as the plant shows signs of needing something, then just his saying that is good enough for me. I can trust he has actually put in the work to back those statements up and don't need photographic evidence to believe him.

 

[HempKat]

Thank you for that ^^

3 of my plants are healthy as can be this one is a bit stressed I recently bent it over snapped the stem about 15-20% tied it to a stake and bent it over some more. It’s also been aggressively pruned so it’s under stress.

New leaves are coming in looking like this. Something is off and I’m not sure what? Help?

If new leaves are coming in like that then there is still something not right. And since you said the other day you were getting 6.9 ph which technically is high for soil I would say your problems are there still. Until you get that sorted out just give it water at a good ph level don't be adding anything else to try and make the plant "heal better/faster" Adding other things while the ph is still off will just prolong issues because when the ph gets right there will probably be some form of toxicity issue waiting to cause more problems. Given that the problems have just been with this one plant and for a prolonged period I might be inclined to suggest flushing/leeching the plant buy giving it a much larger then normal amount of water to try to wash out any excess salts/nutrients. That is more of a last resort thing though and given this plant has been under a lot of stress and is now dealing with the added stress of being damaged from heavy training and aggressively pruned I'm reluctant to tell you to now stress it with a large over watering to flush out and buildup that might be in the soil still. So for now just try to get the ph right and don't feed it anything else until the ph is right for at least 2 back to back waterings. Hopefully what is in the soil mix is enough to feed it whatever it might need. Also just in case nobody has mentioned it or you might not know this, the leaves that look poorly will continue to look poorly until they die off, they won't heal and look better one day.

 

[Ca++]

Well I'm familiar enough with Creeperpark I don't even need to see the pics, if he says Foxfarm soil mixes are fine as is and any of them does well if you just give water and nothing else until such time as the plant shows signs of needing something, then just his saying that is good enough for me. I can trust he has actually put in the work to back those statements up and don't need photographic evidence to believe him.

I notice he has not bothered again. The OP seems to be having trouble separating the wheat from the chaff where advice is concerned.

The OP has used more of everything. The latest move was more humidity, and at a hint of improvement, he has banged the light back up again. It's the bigger is better attitude that's really the problem. Lots of light. CO2. Unnecessary amendments. Feed. All the while with sick plants that want non of it. This thread is two weeks old now. Continuing from another. It's been going on for weeks, and he is still making unrealistic demands of them.

Flogging a dead horse here. People keep giving him hope with advice that may be useful, but ultimately the grow is a loss. Saving it to some degree, offers no gain long term. It's hard to get any real facts though. Such as why we can't see the roots. Which leads to all sorts of other questions. It seems like the whole build needs looking at. Often clearing out somebodies room and sticking in something that works is the best way forward. Weeks have gone by. Weeks and weeks.



I wonder what happened to that other guy. Commercial unit besides others that were fine. New water main. Plants okay in hall. Died in his fancy painted grow room. He has back every 6 months. Last seen heading off to batch feed them, in different locations, to see just what the problem was. A year or two after he started banging his head on the wall.

 

[HempKat]

I notice he has not bothered again. The OP seems to be having trouble separating the wheat from the chaff where advice is concerned.

The OP has used more of everything. The latest move was more humidity, and at a hint of improvement, he has banged the light back up again. It's the bigger is better attitude that's really the problem. Lots of light. CO2. Unnecessary amendments. Feed. All the while with sick plants that want non of it. This thread is two weeks old now. Continuing from another. It's been going on for weeks, and he is still making unrealistic demands of them.

Flogging a dead horse here. People keep giving him hope with advice that may be useful, but ultimately the grow is a loss. Saving it to some degree, offers no gain long term. It's hard to get any real facts though. Such as why we can't see the roots. Which leads to all sorts of other questions. It seems like the whole build needs looking at. Often clearing out somebodies room and sticking in something that works is the best way forward. Weeks have gone by. Weeks and weeks.



I wonder what happened to that other guy. Commercial unit besides others that were fine. New water main. Plants okay in hall. Died in his fancy painted grow room. He has back every 6 months. Last seen heading off to batch feed them, in different locations, to see just what the problem was. A year or two after he started banging his head on the wall.

Wow, lots to unpack there. I can't say why or why not for CreeperPark. I know of him and seen enough over the months and years to trust his skills and knowledge but I don't know him well enough to speculate on why he does or hasn't done something in particular. Really all I can speak to is what I got involved with in the particular thread. I mean sure if I really wanted to I could go check out the previous threads and try to piece things together but I don't have time for all that and it's not our responsibility to hold people's hands to that level. So for me I just tried to focus on what I saw and heard when I came into the picture. What I saw were ph related issues but that didn't really address the topic the op was asking help for which was the look and feel of the leaves. RH could explain that and light intensity and the way the fan blows, that's all environment and the funny thing about environment is that you could do something as simple as change the way the fan blows and it could clear up the rh issues and temp issues. The one thing puzzling to me is it sounds like we have 4 plants 3 of which have never had any issues just this one according to the OP but then that kind of brings into question the environmental problems. If the light was too intense for one plant shouldn't it have been too intense for all? If the RH was so bad it was causing the papery leaves shouldn't it have done that to all. Or is the truth closer to the environment is mostly okay but there is one bad spot because of fan placement or exhaust/intake placement? There are other questions too but I didn't even go there since it didn't seem relevant to the problem being asked. If it's just 4 plants why is he even bothering with CO2? CO2 supplementation is for large commercial grows with many plants unless by CO2 he means the DIY kind where you use yeast and sugar. Although even then it seems a waste of time and totally unnecessary for a 4 plant grow.

 

[Rtaym22224]

If new leaves are coming in like that then there is still something not right. And since you said the other day you were getting 6.9 ph which technically is high for soil I would say your problems are there still. Until you get that sorted out just give it water at a good ph level don't be adding anything else to try and make the plant "heal better/faster" Adding other things while the ph is still off will just prolong issues because when the ph gets right there will probably be some form of toxicity issue waiting to cause more problems. Given that the problems have just been with this one plant and for a prolonged period I might be inclined to suggest flushing/leeching the plant buy giving it a much larger then normal amount of water to try to wash out any excess salts/nutrients. That is more of a last resort thing though and given this plant has been under a lot of stress and is now dealing with the added stress of being damaged from heavy training and aggressively pruned I'm reluctant to tell you to now stress it with a large over watering to flush out and buildup that might be in the soil still. So for now just try to get the ph right and don't feed it anything else until the ph is right for at least 2 back to back waterings. Hopefully what is in the soil mix is enough to feed it whatever it might need. Also just in case nobody has mentioned it or you might not know this, the leaves that look poorly will continue to look poorly until they die off, they won't heal and look better one day.

Ph runoff from this plant yesterday was 6.7 ec of 315
The only difference from this plant compared to the others was this got hit with a lot higher intensity light than the rest of my plants before I bent it.

I have not added any soil amendments these are all in ocean forest soil only. Not feeding the plants anything. Just RO water

Co2 isn’t hurting anything. Adding a second humidifier was actually necessary and has made a difference.

And as stated before my lights are 3.5 ft above canopy I am slowly increasing power on the lights every couple days so the plants adjust.

 

[HempKat]

Ph runoff from this plant yesterday was 6.7 ec of 315
The only difference from this plant compared to the others was this got hit with a lot higher intensity light than the rest of my plants before I bent it.

I have not added any soil amendments these are all in ocean forest soil only. Not feeding the plants anything. Just RO water

Co2 isn’t hurting anything. Adding a second humidifier was actually necessary and has made a difference.

And as stated before my lights are 3.5 ft above canopy I am slowly increasing power on the lights every couple days so the plants adjust.

You misunderstood me I think on the CO2 I wasn't saying it's hurting anything just that it's really not logical on a small grow of 1-4 plants. I mean lots of people do it, I'm not saying it's wrong to do it just not practical. When you have a large grow with dozens of plants then adding CO2 makes more sense because if you're growing dozens of plants it's probably a commercial grow and more plant growth = more harvest=more sales. I look at small grows as more of just trying to bring the outside inside usually at a time of year when growing outside is out of the question. In that case then you're goal is to try to mimic the outdoor environment as closely as possible. In the great outdoors the plants are able to do well with the CO2 naturally in the air, nobody is trying to give them extra CO2 and frankly why should they, there is enough to meet the plant's needs already. I also consider the risks, I don't know about you but when I'm running an indoor grow I'm spending lots of time in the grow room or just outside the grow room and too much CO2 might be great for plants but it's not so great for humans and if you are doing it the serious way using tanks of CO2 then it's an added expense that I would be will to wager is not going to give you enough extra growth to cover the extra expense. It's also another area for things to go wrong and a grow room with added CO2 runs differently then a grow room with no CO2. But hey it's your grow, if you want to add CO2 then go for it.

You may not be adding or feeding anything but RO water now but when I first came in on this thread you were adding stuff. Also to be aware, RO water is good in that it means you don't have a lot of unknowns in your water but it also means you don't have calcium or magnesium in your water either. Now if Fox Farm Ocean Forest has a lot of calcium and magnesium then no problem. I've never used the stuff so I don't know. If like most store bought cannabis grow products though then it doesn't have nearly enough calcium and magnesium for cannabis and the problems you say you're seeing on the new growth still might be calcium/magnesium or cal/mag deficiencies. I can't say for sure because there is so much damage from the previous issues which hopefully have been resolved, that I can't tell what is new and what is old.

If the ph is down from 6.9 to 6.7 now that's good, you're moving it in the right direction. Since 6.7 is considered in range even if not ideal, if the problems are ph related they should start to go away now as long as the ph remains in the good range.

I'm assuming that you plants are all in the same grow space so when you say this one got hit with a lot higher intensity before you bent it, that means this one was much taller and so bending it brought it down to the height of the others? If that's the case and if the others are perfectly fine then the adjustments you made to your light were unnecessary. If they were necessary then your other plants should have had some damage from the light as well.

 

[Rtaym22224]

You misunderstood me I think on the CO2 I wasn't saying it's hurting anything just that it's really not logical on a small grow of 1-4 plants. I mean lots of people do it, I'm not saying it's wrong to do it just not practical. When you have a large grow with dozens of plants then adding CO2 makes more sense because if you're growing dozens of plants it's probably a commercial grow and more plant growth = more harvest=more sales. I look at small grows as more of just trying to bring the outside inside usually at a time of year when growing outside is out of the question. In that case then you're goal is to try to mimic the outdoor environment as closely as possible. In the great outdoors the plants are able to do well with the CO2 naturally in the air, nobody is trying to give them extra CO2 and frankly why should they, there is enough to meet the plant's needs already. I also consider the risks, I don't know about you but when I'm running an indoor grow I'm spending lots of time in the grow room or just outside the grow room and too much CO2 might be great for plants but it's not so great for humans and if you are doing it the serious way using tanks of CO2 then it's an added expense that I would be will to wager is not going to give you enough extra growth to cover the extra expense. It's also another area for things to go wrong and a grow room with added CO2 runs differently then a grow room with no CO2. But hey it's your grow, if you want to add CO2 then go for it.

You may not be adding or feeding anything but RO water now but when I first came in on this thread you were adding stuff. Also to be aware, RO water is good in that it means you don't have a lot of unknowns in your water but it also means you don't have calcium or magnesium in your water either. Now if Fox Farm Ocean Forest has a lot of calcium and magnesium then no problem. I've never used the stuff so I don't know. If like most store bought cannabis grow products though then it doesn't have nearly enough calcium and magnesium for cannabis and the problems you say you're seeing on the new growth still might be calcium/magnesium or cal/mag deficiencies. I can't say for sure because there is so much damage from the previous issues which hopefully have been resolved, that I can't tell what is new and what is old.

If the ph is down from 6.9 to 6.7 now that's good, you're moving it in the right direction. Since 6.7 is considered in range even if not ideal, if the problems are ph related they should start to go away now as long as the ph remains in the good range.

I'm assuming that you plants are all in the same grow space so when you say this one got hit with a lot higher intensity before you bent it, that means this one was much taller and so bending it brought it down to the height of the others? If that's the case and if the others are perfectly fine then the adjustments you made to your light were unnecessary. If they were necessary then your other plants should have had some damage from the light as well.

I appreciate the response. I’m going to continue with my trial of co2 and I wholeheartedly agree with what you said about co2 really only being used for large industrial grows not four plant rec grows…
I was able to afford it and thought I’d try it out. So far I’ve seen excellent results

All four of my plants are different strains (beginners mistske, big one). I have sherbadough, double dos I dos, duct tape, and purple punch.

The sherbadough was 2 ft taller than the rest of the other 3 plant canopy and continuing to grow tall. My ONLY option was a hard bend/small break at the base of the stem to bend the plant over. I did this staked it and then tied down the very top of the plant bending it over more. I have it bent so far it can still uptake nutes but any further and I’d cut off nute and water supply. This bent over plant is the only one with signs of light damage not my other plants.

I am having to aggressively prune tie down and bend my other plants each in their own unique way to maintain an even canopy level with so many different strains. Each one is growing totally differently right now.

Yes PH is down to 6.7 ec runoff isn’t too high so I’m not overfeeding anymore. My watering is on point. I will start feeding now I think… lightly