~PIFF~ A.K.A. Uptown Haze/Frankies/Church. Preserving a Heritage...

[Piff_cat]

Didn't he say it was Shanti in the recent interview with Gypsy?

on mns nev said somethin like i remember giving ed the f1 g13c and talked about what a cross to the a13 would look like. shanti gave soma the afhan hawaiian male and spread hashplant haze around spain. he could have given soma the g13c or some combination there of

 

[CannaT]

It's like square and rectangle all piff is haze not all haze is piff.

since haze A died so early theres never been a full accounting of all the haze A phenotypes from the few f1s actually made with haze A. piff/frankies is one of these phenotypes or profile groups coming from haze A but the name also has a regional specificity and clone group.

id say the main requirement for a haze to be called piff would be its origination being sold in new york at .7 for 20 all the way up, incense/franky smell and a friendly euphoric high with less teeth clenching/scary rollercoaster effect. this is a component often over looked as its not just the scent and taste but also the legendary effect. thick dhurch smell which stays in the room long after smoking and tastes good for hours.

if a strain/clone had all these traits but was not from nyc it would be like an honorary piff member. the jacks youve been finding in sensi definitly seem like haze A progeny to me but i also think jack could have used the female haze B or the BC f1 as jacks haze parent. the varigation you find in yours shows very similar phenotype to the cuban black haze with varigation. i find it hard to believe that sensi would recieve the haze B/bc in 89 to 90 and just never use it in a strain. but it dissapears ffrom mention after nev is arrested. however when he first started grail nev said the BC cutting was held by ppl in holland or at least used to be and that some haze B progeny seeds could still exist. heres some cool jack phenos i found online which look real haze A like

View attachment 18794366
View attachment 18794371

F2 ((NL #5 / Skunk #1) / C1) x Haze
Jack lineage.
Im not shure what is C1 here but I think that I read somewhere that it is NL5 male from sensi pack.

But If Nevile said that C1 was mother of Jack and it was his best haze ever founded.

Maybe Jack is (NL5xshiva male to C1)
From this lineage female was founded and it is hit by haze male A.

If lineage is like that there are phenos A and C to be found.

When I get answer if I get it. what is C1,I will post it here.

Some Jack/bedrocan pictures.

 

[@hempy]

But If Nevile said that C1 was mother of Jack and it was his best haze ever founded.

This is what Nevil said.

 

[g0dzilla]

Forgive me for some random thoughts but I've grown a bunch of pcf's seeds and insomnia is a bitch so here goes . I've grown Just a few plants from things like (Athens piff, midnight mass, holy communion, and currently the black striped tiger) to see if "piff" is something I dig. Got the silver haze (people say that is slightly piffy) and PC3 direct as well ( thanks pcf!) and also grabbed the cbh from pcg after confirming with pcf that is was legit. Have grown the coast2coast, piffrican haze, piff s2, sour apple piff, sour piff and panama piff (from whiterabbitfarms ) as well.

With my favorite being the piffrican (metallic musk and best effect so far it had my heart racing ) and the Panama piff which was heavy on the PR side (upbeat drunken effect not very incense at all)

With all that being said I have zero authority over what piff is. I've never had it didn't grow up with it just chasing the legend.

my question is if people are so dead set this came from haze A. where do forgotten posts like these things fall as they are still reported to have piffyness? Seems like it's all haze C based.

Old thread claiming piff can be found in Chimeras line, ojd old school haze.

Thread 'Frankie's Incense Haze' https://www.icmag.com/threads/frankies-incense-haze.296474/

Also someone highly respected like MP who says the cbh is not what he grew up on makes me scratch my head and mango haze is certainly a haze c descendant.

Post in thread '"NYC Piff"' https://www.icmag.com/threads/nyc-piff.167790/post-4816108


Have you guys surfaced things that are catpissy as well? I always hear stories that the real (best) piff was (big herb quotes). The cbh I grew wasn't catpissy maybe I couldn't grow it to potential?

However Isn't catpiss an inbred haze C trait as well ?

food for thought , feel free to kick me out of the thread anytime.

Piffrican haze pictured below

 

[CannaT]

This is what Nevil said.

View attachment 18794396

 

[William76]

Haze a and haze c show differing traits,this is true,but being siblings (as far as we know)they will also share alot of the same traits too,so sometimes ull get from 1 that shows traits of the other,so haze a traits can show up on haze c progeny and vice versa,so bearing this in mind I wouldn't be so certain the piff is from haze a without hard evidence,and nevs haze throws both,I'd breed towards haze a and haze c,not just either a or c.76

 

[Piff_cat]

while A and C are related i think haze C is missing some important genes/alleles. nev described the long flowering first haze female he considered archetype as the haze A type but more so. while haze C was a sweeter type comparable to colombian gold. there are possible explanations for the difference-

haze C is a generation removed from first haze/hazeA isnt the same maternal haplotype. they share same father but haze C mom lost some of first haze traits. since mitochondrial dna does not recombine the mothers profile will always pop back up working thru the line and that keeps the best qualities known of haze locked into haze A progeny.

and/or

if haze A and haze C share the same father and that fathers mother is same as first haze/Haze A.

when these lines which use either haze C on both sides of pedigree or haze A and haze C progeny are crossed, the recessive 25 percent phenos coming from paternal grandmother throw out the original mother haplotype

since there are no pure 69 haze plants available its difficult to estimate the outcrossed contribution. the best way would be to compare hybrids which share the same outcross- a5 vs c5/ ag13 vs cg13// killer a5 vs killer c5. its also tough to discern all the haze A phenotype in nevils haze because even at f1 it only has 25 percent haze A and using haze C as the full haze father masks/diminished haze A phenotype

 

[bigherb]

Forgive me for some random thoughts but I've grown a bunch of pcf's seeds and insomnia is a bitch so here goes . I've grown Just a few plants from things like (Athens piff, midmass mass, holy communion, and currently the black striped tiger) to see if "piff" is something I dig. Got the silver haze (people say that is slightly piffy) and PC3 direct as well ( thanks pcf!) and also grabbed the cbh from pcg after confirming with pcf that is was legit. Have grown the coast2coast, piffrican haze, piff s2, sour apple piff, sour piff and panama piff as well.

With my favorite being the piffrican (metallic musk and best effect so far it had my heart racing ) and the Panama piff which was heavy on the PR side (upbeat drunken effect not very incense at all)

With all that being said I have zero authority over what piff is. I've never had it didn't grow up with it just chasing the legend.

my question is if people are so dead set this came from haze A. where do forgotten posts like these things fall as they are still reported to have piffyness? Seems like it's all haze C based.

Old thread claiming piff can be found in Chimeras line, ojd old school haze.

Thread 'Frankie's Incense Haze' https://www.icmag.com/threads/frankies-incense-haze.296474/

Also someone highly respected like MP who says the cbh is not what he grew up on makes me scratch my head and mango haze is certainly a haze c descendant.

Post in thread '"NYC Piff"' https://www.icmag.com/threads/nyc-piff.167790/post-4816108


Have you guys surfaced things that are catpissy as well? I always hear stories that the real (best) piff was (big herb quotes). The cbh I grew wasn't catpissy maybe I couldn't grow it to potential?

However Isn't catpiss an inbred haze C trait as well ?

food for thought , feel free to kick me out of the thread anytime.

Piffrican haze pictured below

Sup brother

Thanks for sharing your experience with the CBH and hybrids . Interesting to hear your thoughts after experiencing such variety . I don’t get catpiss in Cuban black I’ve smoked either

I appreciate your input and details . That’s what the community is about sharing our thoughts and experiences respectfully. Why kick you out ,these opinions are food for thought and your style of posting makes for good convo

I’m a detail whore but not an educated with correct terms and science of cannabis genetics and terpenes .

Legit points of incense coming from HazeC hybrids that’s common knowledge. Now in comparison to my thought on A5 I’m not sure how or why the comparison?

The A5 G13HzA both have reports of incense

Reality is incense is commonly reported in all and every known and respected/ official Haze offering to varying degree , which is all from Sams stock with the exception of
old timers Haze .

From recollection I experienced Catpiss in Mns skunk haze when growing n drying but not Nevils haze . In my opinion and experience catpiss and incense are 2 traits I’ve associated with the best Haze I’ve experienced .

Please let’s not mention chimera and that Frankie’s incense haze . He and his lines have nothing to do with Uptown Haze , simply irresistible is recommended for those piff traits from a few legit sources .

Soo for the educated, would phylos and sample testing/ terpene analysis of A5 and hybrids as well as C5 and hybrids , Explain further which parent is responsible or can both be responsible ?

My uneducated simple / twisted mind is maybe a recombination of the NLD genetics in NL5 bring out recessive traits of HzC in HzA or possibly vice versa .

So nevil said HzC was Santa Marta like- spicy piney sandlewood .

HzA was Thai like - liver leather

Soo his comparison is what I did in my autobiography. It’s what we all do compare to what we’ve experienced before

I pick up all those traits in Uptown Haze without the piney . That description of santa Marta Nevil compared to Haze C is very similar to each of the 4 phenos I grew of Nevils Haze but not similar to most coffee shop haze I’ve experienced ( which I believe are HzC descendants) and I’ve had a lot of experience.

That liver leather traits of HzA is very reminiscent of what I think Cuban black can also be described as - Musky wet basement animal skin all similar tones / scents

I believe HzA influences Uptown Haze / Cuban black Haze because it is darker than Nevils Haze and Coffee shop Haze from my experience which I believe is because of HzC

This is just my thoughts . I have no experience with clones . this is from my experience and history of Amsterdam trips living in NYC frequenting Washington Heights Home of the Haze . Then growing mns 09 NH and recently piffcoast offerings .

As I said years ago , it’s connecting dots . Sometimes life is more simple than we make it

It’s Nice to have some Haze convo without drama

1luvbigherb

 

[@hempy]

The differences between HzA and HzC are night and day BigHerb you hit it on the head with this description.

So nevil said HzC was Santa Marta like- spicy piney sandlewood .

HzA was Thai like - liver leather

The differences are more than just the smells its the look of the plants like the frame how they grow and more importantly the look of the flower.

What i see with the Piff /Cuban black so on is HzC.

 

[Piff_cat]

heres some of the piff clone cannabinoid/terpene results compared to a5 lines.

important terpenes for incense/franky/piff

ocimene- major haze related terpene imparts the wet towel/basement/warm its a monoterpene so volatile while plant growing and harvested. stimulant/euphoric effect makes you cough used as natural bronchitis treatment. main component of holy basil an indian mint family plant with similar terpene profiles to haze

guiaol- very rare terpene found in palo santo/agarwood the most expensive incesne by weight growin in yunnan/southern china. super nose infiltrating pine. genetic marker for nld afghan/korea sativa. sesquiterpene longer to oxidize but when cured reeks

linalool- important oxygenated monoterpene. racemic mixture volatile especially at ripening stage when content explodes. since its oxygenated can also be further modified by cp450 enzyme for more specific plant defense compounds. co occurs with ocimene and limonene usually

a-bisabolol- also present in sandlewood rare terpene synthases which can be further modified into several different santalene compounds used by sandalwood to defend against heavy metals

farnsene- sesquiterpene genetic marker for thailand sativas. fights against high humidity also found in tea tree

 

[PiffCoastFarms]

Proof is in the pudding. A5 close relative to the Cuban black haze (submitted to Phylos as nyc Dominican piff haze) Imo all these reports of incense and (close to but never dead on piff) came from C5 because C5 has been the only thing widely available!! If people were growing a5 hybrids for all these years, im betting they would have found it a long time ago. But it’s always close but no cigar with the c5 offerings.

Btw, before they changed the name to dna proprietary it used to be cannalope haze

 

[@hempy]

People seem to be to hung up on the HzA vs HzC thing the reality is both are good both produced great lines.

 

[zachrockbadenof]

77 pages about 'piff' ...i'm sorry 78 pages... now its dominican... not cuban.... there are some fuk'd threads on the site.... u guys are vying for numero uno ... thats number one for all non-spanish speakers...

 

[goingrey]

77 pages about 'piff' ...i'm sorry 78 pages... now its dominican... not cuban.... there are some fuk'd threads on the site.... u guys are vying for numero uno ... thats number one for all non-spanish speakers...

LOL, maybe this chart will explain it..

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Proof is in the pudding. A5 close relative to the Cuban black haze (submitted to Phylos as nyc Dominican piff haze) Imo all these reports of incense and (close to but never dead on piff) came from C5 because C5 has been the only thing widely available!! If people were growing a5 hybrids for all these years, im betting they would have found it a long time ago. But it’s always close but no cigar with the c5 offerings.

View attachment 18794578


Btw, before they changed the name to dna proprietary it used to be cannalope haze

I dont think f1 c5 has been available for over two and a half decades.....and I can tell you for a fact that hazeC and nl5c or any of the hazeC hybrids threw incense hard....infact it used to be a case of it was hard to find ones with no incense in....one of the main traits of hazeC was ridiculously strong taste and scent of sandlewood. For a like two decades now there have only been a couple of surviving clones of c5 and depending on the traits those couple of clones hold thats only a tiny tiny snapshot of c5 and less so hazeC.... when clones are being compared to other clones you can only compare the specific clones not the strain as a whole....so eg if a piff clone maches to a a5 clone its only showing you some traits match...but ifi had a a5x 5skC and id selected a clone leaning towards the a5 there is a possibility on phylos it would match a a5 cut, but it dont mean I have a a5.....without large numbers of f1 original seeds phylos can only give a small inication of a certain strain....by the way if you know anywere there are some original f1 hybrids using hazeC as a direct parent id be intrested...iv only seen a clone here or there for way too long. Ps...once you start inbreeding the originals you start getting less and less seeds with those original traits that were mostly at the forefront...wich is what you see with most of the decendants....same with sams ohz...and toms...the number of elites with those original traits and power just drop in numbers drastically the more they get inbred wich isnt really fare to judge hazeC by

 

[g0dzilla]

heres some of the piff clone cannabinoid/terpene results compared to a5 lines.
View attachment 18794560

important terpenes for incense/franky/piff

ocimene- major haze related terpene imparts the wet towel/basement/warm its a monoterpene so volatile while plant growing and harvested. stimulant/euphoric effect makes you cough used as natural bronchitis treatment. main component of holy basil an indian mint family plant with similar terpene profiles to haze

guiaol- very rare terpene found in palo santo/agarwood the most expensive incesne by weight growin in yunnan/southern china. super nose infiltrating pine. genetic marker for nld afghan/korea sativa. sesquiterpene longer to oxidize but when cured reeks

linalool- important oxygenated monoterpene. racemic mixture volatile especially at ripening stage when content explodes. since its oxygenated can also be further modified by cp450 enzyme for more specific plant defense compounds. co occurs with ocimene and limonene usually

a-bisabolol- also present in sandlewood rare terpene synthases which can be further modified into several different santalene compounds used by sandalwood to defend against heavy metals

farnsene- sesquiterpene genetic marker for thailand sativas. fights against high humidity also found in tea tree

View attachment 18794570
View attachment 18794571
View attachment 18794572
View attachment 18794573 View attachment 18794574

Which one of these samples has the incense and catpiss aroma accompanied with the soaring legendary high ?

 

[PiffCoastFarms]

I think when people say incense with c5 they truly don’t mean the same incense that nyc haze lovers are talking about. I guess the smell of terpinoline could be considered as a type of incense too. I can’t count how many times people from the west coast and eu were like yo straight incense and it was straight jack/trainwreck terps (terpinoline)

piff is just something you have to experience to know what it is. I’ve been growing available haze seed lines since 2008 and I never once found the terpenes I was looking for until I got a Cuban haze clone. Actually yes once, from top dawgs tres haze which was (surprise surprise) cbh x tres dawg. That was back when asherer gave the cut to Jj and money mike in like 2011-12 or so. Other than that, I’ve grown A LOT of haze hybrids. Either leather or terpinoline every single time.

I’m glad we have terpene analysis now, that can help a lot explaining smells, for years we’ve been going off of other peoples perceptions and descriptions the best they can put it into words. But your incense might not be my incense. If someone says they grew up on piff and something smells like it, that’s good enough for me. But someone halfway around the world saying it’s sandalwood incense? I don’t think I can trust that opinion Been down that road many times, always ended in jack terps.

 

[PiffCoastFarms]

77 pages about 'piff' ...i'm sorry 78 pages... now its dominican... not cuban.... there are some fuk'd threads on the site.... u guys are vying for numero uno ... thats number one for all non-spanish speakers...

Dominicans run haze in New York Cubans run haze in Miami… where you been? Tranquillo

 

[Piff_cat]

what id like to know is the pedigree of the autobohn. could be a stand out f2 to catch all the vigor or maybe some kind of gold outcross. i duno its the most vigorous plant ive ever seen. insane. you ever test her for terps /cannabinoids?

 

[Piff_cat]

Which one of these samples has the incense and catpiss aroma accompanied with the soaring legendary high ?

All the test show different clones of the main types of piff clones. They all have those characters I'm not sure I could explain Suttle differences bur puffcoast can I'm guessing. I love em all lol