Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Key Ran]

Correct ballast

Correct ballast

Hello all again,

I am refining my room to an actual purchase list, and am going to start my flower room with the 860w cdm 4k EA allstart bulbs, as they give me the most cmh spectrum for the least amount of startup money, and I can put 6 of them in there for some serious startup power and I can figure out how to incorporate more 315's in the agro 3100k when I better figure out my spread and my needs. My question to you all is, what is the best ballast to use with these 860w cmh ? I see I can use a cheap 1000w magnetic mh ballast, they are available for as cheap as $70, but I want to get what will power this lamp the best , not just the cheapest. Does anyone have any expierence/knowledge in this area? My partner can wire up anything, so there's no worry as he has set up many rooms over the years and has electrician skills, just need to figure out the best ballast, and we can figure out cords and sockets, etc.

Thanks again, My plan is to hang these vertical from the ceileing and grow around them, i'm going to use a single 315w to veg them vertical as well, but I am going to buy the advance ballast and the 4200k bulb kit from advancedtech for that.

I appreciate the input and advice, it feels good to come back to an original option that is inexepensive and appears to be the easiest to set up as well... (6 x 860w cmh, ballasts, NO reflectors, etc..)

 

[Jhhnn]

Hello all again,

I am refining my room to an actual purchase list, and am going to start my flower room with the 860w cdm 4k EA allstart bulbs, as they give me the most cmh spectrum for the least amount of startup money, and I can put 6 of them in there for some serious startup power and I can figure out how to incorporate more 315's in the agro 3100k when I better figure out my spread and my needs. My question to you all is, what is the best ballast to use with these 860w cmh ? I see I can use a cheap 1000w magnetic mh ballast, they are available for as cheap as $70, but I want to get what will power this lamp the best , not just the cheapest. Does anyone have any expierence/knowledge in this area? My partner can wire up anything, so there's no worry as he has set up many rooms over the years and has electrician skills, just need to figure out the best ballast, and we can figure out cords and sockets, etc.

Thanks again, My plan is to hang these vertical from the ceileing and grow around them, i'm going to use a single 315w to veg them vertical as well, but I am going to buy the advance ballast and the 4200k bulb kit from advancedtech for that.

I appreciate the input and advice, it feels good to come back to an original option that is inexepensive and appears to be the easiest to set up as well... (6 x 860w cmh, ballasts, NO reflectors, etc..)

I received some 860's by mistake, gifted them to Seafour & Avinash_Miles. Might want their impressions. It's designed for vertical use only on old style mag ballasts, not electronic ballasts.

 

[Hammerhead]

Damn. So it probably still be good if I hadnt grabbed it with my sweatshirt and melted it to the bulb!

This makes me feel a lot better tho, glad it aint a faulty fixture.

Mine does this as well, It can even make the bulb flicker instead of shutting off. Just wait until it cools you will be fine.


How much µmol/m²s would be adequate for 4x4. 1 315 still work fo that space.. From what I have read 3x3 is good for 1 315 that= 605 µmol/m²s.. I have 1 630 in a 5x5= 471

 

[timmur]

Mine does this as well, It can even make the bulb flicker instead of shutting off. Just wait until it cools you will be fine.


How much µmol/m²s would be adequate for 4x4. 1 315 still work fo that space.. From what I have read 3x3 is good for 1 315 that= 605 µmol/m²s.. I have 1 630 in a 5x5= 471

PPFD requirements don't change based on the size of the space. The grower determines the requirement and then buys enough lighting to meet the requirement. Beta Test Team (MIA) used to claim that 700 - 800 PPFD was a good place to be for flowering. 500 - 600 is probably a better number for veg. If you've read my posts, I'm going up into diminished returns land with my lighting (1100 or more).

The rule of thumb from those that have grown under CMH have said that about 40 watts/sq ft. is the max required which puts you a little low in the 3 x 3 with a single 315. It's even lower with the 630 in the 5 x 5. I believe scrappy was in the ballpark of 25 watts/sq ft with his lighting and he pulled 3 lbs with three lights in a 5 x 10 space.

Another way to look at it is Daily Light Integral (DLI). The max is typically considered 50 moles per day before you start getting into diminishing returns. To calculate do this:

PPFD x .0036 x hours of light
700 x .0036 x 12 = 30.24 moles per day (DLI)
1157 x .0036 x 12 = 50 moles per day

 

[frostqueen]

I just wanted to clarify a few things. First, I'm not doing anything with CMH yet. I have done a bunch of research on this lighting tech, but have no direct experience with it to date. I bought 12 Greenbeams based on this research and am getting ready to employ them when my room is complete in late Feb. There are many ICmag folks who have used CMH in one form or another including Rives, Jhhnn, tenthirty, scrappy-doo, and theLumberjack (and many more that I can't recall) and can speak directly from their experience. I will gladly share my experience as soon as I get the room up and running!

In the mean time, I have made comments on this and other threads based on my research in an effort to share the knowledge.

Regarding my comments on more PPFD being "better", please understand that that has to be understood in its original context. Given a space constraint and a desire for maximum yield, then 1100 or 1200 PPFD in conjunction with all other variables optimized makes sense. As Rives mentioned, diminishing returns applies here. Most will find 700-800 PPFD more than adequate for flowering.

Regarding PPFD being more relevant than watts/sq ft, that is really my preference as I feel like it is more precise. In the context of talking about one particular light, say 315 watt CMH (3100k) for instance, then watts/sq ft and PPFD become largely interchangeable. OTOH, if you start mixing the discussion with other light tech then it makes more sense to talk in terms of PPFD. Actually, it becomes indispensable in my opinion. Most folks want to talk about comparisons of the various light tech thinking that they are noting differences in spectrum when in reality they are usually comparing varying levels of irradiance as well as spectrum. Then when they see improved yield, growth, etc... they attribute it to the spectrum when it is probably just more photons. I think photons are king then spectrum. If you really want your cake and eat it too, buy a shit ton of CMH lights!

Someone pointed me to this link for calculating PPFD and I am eternally grateful. It is quite accurate relative to the modeling that Cycloptics does!

Oh crap: that's right, I was thinking of scrappy when I said you'd used them already. Sorry timmur. Regardless, we're getting some great info laid out here.

 

[timmur]

No worries frost.

 

[Avinash.miles]

I received some 860's by mistake, gifted them to Seafour & Avinash_Miles. Might want their impressions. It's designed for vertical use only on old style mag ballasts, not electronic ballasts.

i really liked the 860 with my limited experience with it.... seafour switched to 860 and didn't go back. i've switched to 315's inveg... mixed spectrum in bloom between HPS 600/1000w and 315's.

 

[theLumberjack]

Hey Lumberjack. What's your setup like? Using hoods or bare bulb vertical? Which tent was easier to manage?

LH

I am using the sunsystem 315 setup. expensive mother.

the setup is not great. I have my tents in a room inside a room. The inside room is vented to the outside based on a thermostat. I have a dehumidifier in there and the tents are set to opposite 12's. the tents both push into scrubbers based on thermostat outlet.

coco, top drip with halos on a short cycle timer. general hydro nutes.
exhale bags hanging. small fans for cross wind.

3*3 much easier to manage. 4*4 is a long reach for plucking fans or cropping or weaving scrog.

 

[bandit60001]

Anyone know when tom from atl posted that note on his site? Or has anyone received anything from him recently?
Ready to take the plunge but dont wanna be waiting around for months waiting on items to be shipped!

 

[Mronyc]

^Just recently and he is going to send me a free spare bulb for delays.

 

[bandit60001]

Thanks mronyc. I ended up ordering the phatnom kit from GH to start with. I run a 3x5.5' room normally with dual 400's.ATM im only using about 3x3 of it doing a test run with some Ace strains.
I really wanted the nanolux 630 but i dont think the reflector design would have provided very good coverage for my space. At least not as good as two separate ones.
I should receive the phantom later this week and if i like it, I may put in an order late this week for one of the kits tom from atl offers. Definately excited!

 

[LastHurrah]

Thanks for the reply Lumberjack. I'm going to give two Phantoms a shot myself. Timmur, excellent information.

Does anyone know the background on the Phantom ballast. Says low frequency square wave, but it's not dimmable like the Philips. Not Philips, huh?

I'm going to settle this bare bulb vertical thing for myself. I'll use the bulbs and ballasts for the donut, but the hoods... gonna grab a couple of Philips dimmable ballasts and run the two hoods side by side in a 2x4 hydrohut (actually 28" deep by 55" wide) with 210w bulbs. I think that puts me at the magic 40 wpsf but I'm sleepy and will check my math tomorrow.

G'nite Folks

 

[Hammerhead]

Everything is doing great.. The Dr 150 has a 630 in it. Right outside the tent is another 315 to cover more vegging plants .. Plants have never looked better.

 

[timmur]

Thanks for the reply Lumberjack. I'm going to give two Phantoms a shot myself. Timmur, excellent information.

Does anyone know the background on the Phantom ballast. Says low frequency square wave, but it's not dimmable like the Philips. Not Philips, huh?

I'm going to settle this bare bulb vertical thing for myself. I'll use the bulbs and ballasts for the donut, but the hoods... gonna grab a couple of Philips dimmable ballasts and run the two hoods side by side in a 2x4 hydrohut (actually 28" deep by 55" wide) with 210w bulbs. I think that puts me at the magic 40 wpsf but I'm sleepy and will check my math tomorrow.

G'nite Folks

Good luck. I want to see how the phantoms/vert work out.

 

[LastHurrah]

Good luck. I want to see how the phantoms/vert work out.

Thanks timmur. I've learned over the years to research until you think you know, then ask people who actually know, then research what they know, "then" cautiously proceed. I plan to do just that. I'll start a thread when it comes together. It'll be a couple of weeks. Until then...

LH

 

[geo923007]

Rives sent u an email

 

[GET MO]

do yall get a high pitched noise coming from the fixture/bulb?

 

[Avinash.miles]

do yall get a high pitched noise coming from the fixture/bulb?

nope

 

[LastHurrah]

do yall get a high pitched noise coming from the fixture/bulb?

Some pages back, it was mentioned that folks running mogul bases were getting that pinging sound. Don't thing it was happening with the PGX18 bases though. The Phantom kit has the PGX18's, right?

Look for a pm from me in a day or so GM... soon as I get 50 posts up.

LH

 

[CHEFfy]

No buzz from the phantoms... They do have the pgz18