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Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)
- Thread starter rives
- Start date
Now give it a shot for flowerI was impressed.
Not that I'm any sort of expert, but I'm being impressed as this first CDM grow progresses. Power consumption & heat output are way down while growth & flowering are very much in the same ballpark as my previous 1000w dual arc. Even if total yield ends up being a little less yield per watt will be way up.
Using two stage cooling, I've been able to dial down lamp ventilation considerably but grow space ventilation needs to stay nearly the same. That indicates to me that the radiant energy going into the grow space is very much the same with more of it being in at wavelengths plants can use.
I figure 20 months is the break even point where cost of operation savings make up for the initial expense of my DIY setup. After that it should be like getting 460w/hr for free.
Unclecrash
Member
I love how cool they run!! I was comparing to a metal halide 400watt and its putting off less heat that the 400
LastHurrah
Member
Nanolux All In One?
Nanolux All In One?
I'm also wondering about the Nanolux 1-bulb unit. Looks nice enough. Takes the PGX18 base. I've only found it at GrowersHouse. Can't make out the ballast though. Any thoughts on it's quality? I like the square design of the reflector... seems perfect for my 4x4 tent. Any thoughts?
Nanolux All In One?
I'm also wondering about the Nanolux 1-bulb unit. Looks nice enough. Takes the PGX18 base. I've only found it at GrowersHouse. Can't make out the ballast though. Any thoughts on it's quality? I like the square design of the reflector... seems perfect for my 4x4 tent. Any thoughts?
I don't think that any of us know if the lamps will go their full life or rattle apart. It appears that what you are experiencing isn't unusual for the mogul-base version, but the lamps really haven't been on the market long enough for a lot of people to have experience with them. If you plan on running the lamp to end-of-life, you could keep a rough accounting of the lamp's service time and see if it makes it to the projected life.
Good luck.
Good luck.
The ballast is probably a proprietary Nanolux design like the rest of their ballasts. I have no experience with their products.
From what I can gather, a single 315 in a 4x4 is adequate, easily the equivalent of a conventional 400w. Some say it's the equal of a conventional 600w. It's not a lot of horsepower in any event.
What I'm sure of with this first foray into CDM is that 630w performs very much like a conventional 1000w lamp in a 4x4 space with a huge reduction in power consumption & heat output.
2000pm
Member
Nice find. Would have been perfect if I could remote ballast it... Wonder how easy it would be to rig that up.
Unclecrash
Member
Ya the ballast on top hurts with the low ceiling.
2broke2smoke
Member
My mogul base 942 makes the high pitch buzz, but I'm not concerned as it is not that loud and I barely notice it. in the past my lights have always had a hum if you listen close enough, I would not worry until they fail, Philips will warranty it so as long as you have a spare it would not be catastrophic
2b2s
2b2s
I don't think growlight makers have figured out that 315 & 630 horizontal fixtures can be quite petite or that growers might want them to be enclosed for fan cooling. Low heat output, small size & light weight are big advantages for tent & closet growers. That's really the market, not much larger multi lamp operations.
OTOH, maybe growers respond more to bigger is better. Some of the Mongo Huge fan cooled reflectors out there seem to indicate that. I'm sure they have their place- just not my place.
The market is definitely on the big setups. These guys are driving the hydroponics economy in a big way, buying not just multiple light setups but also automatic trimmers, degassing ovens, and bulk nutrients. Those guys keep the doors open and the lights on so the one and two light closet growers can find a garden store in every town. Commercial and Wholesale hydroponics CRUSHES the retail side. I think this is an online perception because the guys that are doing it that big aren't really on here. They're too busy running a growing business. This is a huge community of small scale growers, but it takes 100 of us to equal the production from just 1 big grower, and from a sales POV that guy has serious clout.
Most of the gardeners running these CMH systems are running them as supplemental lights, especially the DE fixture crowds. DE and CMH both have an optimal operation temperature, so the bulbs themselves cannot be directly cooled in the way traditional SE bulbs have been. There is also a big push right now away from the oversized Magnum and Raptor, XXXXXXXXXLLLLLLLL, kind of reflectors in lieu of smaller reflectors held higher away from the canopy to improve the balance of light. Too many guys putting a bulb 12" away from the top of their canopy, cooking the center and starving the corners that are going to be 36"+ away regardless of how close the bulb is to the center of the canopy.
With these systems we're getting just a ridiculous amount of PAR out of them. The quanta isn't lost when you pull it up a little higher, it just spreads out better. And if your exhaust fan can exchange all the air in the growing space every 30 seconds or so (rated at 2x the cuft of the room) then air cooled hood or not, you're moving plenty of air in and out to keep the canopy temp within 4-6 degrees f of the intake. I did a bare bulb 400w grow in an Econowing in a 3x3 tent with a 4" vortex set to low on a speed controller without any temperature issues.
Another issue with air cooled systems is the glass. When it's clean it'll cost you 5% of your PAR. Throw a little dust on their and now we're talking up to a 10% loss. That's straight up harvest weight and it's why bare bulb systems are taking over.
It is time to rethink grow room lighting and take a big bite of humble pie, there might be a better way than oversized air-cooled reflectors smashed on down.
This is the first mention that I've seen that cooling of the CMH/CDM lamps could be detrimental. Got any links for that?
Anybody else having problems with the speed of ICMAG the last few days? It's been crawling for me, from two widely separated locations on different ISPs and different machines.
I'd picked it up somewhere, I think in a demo by sunlight when the LEC's came out.
Philips has something on the second to last page of the Product family leaflet for the CDM-T. It talks about lumenaire (reflector) design requirements, specifically base temperatures.
http://download.p4c.philips.com/l4bt/3/322853/mastercolour_cdm-t_elite_mw_322853_ffs_aen.pdf
But in my hunting just now there wasn't anything else I could find to back that up very much. Actually, a GE pdf I found says the minimum operating temperature is -30c, which says the opposite. I'll hit up my rep and see if they have something one way or the other. Could be one of those "opinions" I mixed up as a "fact" in the ol' grey matter. Good on you calling me out on it.
LastHurrah
Member
Probably already mentioned somewhere else but...
Sun System Remote Ballast Setup ($500 includes bulb).
Anyone using one of these bulbs bare & vertical? If so, how far are you keeping the plants from the bulb? Happy with the results?
LastHurrah
Member
How's the light spread of the 630's (rectangular) in a tent (square)? I was thinking of doing a 5x5 tent with one of the 630w reflectors. In my mind, square space = square reflector for best (even) light spread.
Related question... Is the octagonal shape of the Greenbeams optimal for square tents (4x4)? Seems like the corners might suffer a bit. Anyone have experience with this?
Related question... Is the octagonal shape of the Greenbeams optimal for square tents (4x4)? Seems like the corners might suffer a bit. Anyone have experience with this?
HorseBadoritiz
Active member
Has anyone found a bulk supplier for the 930 T12's? I've gotten so many friends into LEC's it would be great to be able pick up a case of bulbs!
Unclecrash
Member
Quick Hack Job Gavita Reflector 315 Mogul
Quick Hack Job Gavita Reflector 315 Mogul
Just slapped this together with a piece of steel stud trackand some rivits. Didnt relize it was so fricken small it really concentrates the light down wondering if I should turn it 90 degrees but there is a bunch of crap in the way.
Quick Hack Job Gavita Reflector 315 Mogul
Just slapped this together with a piece of steel stud trackand some rivits. Didnt relize it was so fricken small it really concentrates the light down wondering if I should turn it 90 degrees but there is a bunch of crap in the way.
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LastHurrah
Member
SunSystems Using Philips?
SunSystems Using Philips?
SunSystems Using Philips?
...The Sun Systems LEC 315 is available in a 120v version - they include a small step-down transformer in the fixture. The last that I knew, they were using the Philips ballast. I think that it is only available as an open fixture, though./quote]
Rives, Jhnnnnn, and many others... want to thank y'all for this most informative thread. I was putting together a couple tents (4x4 and 5x5) when I stumbled on here. So glad I hadn't bought lighting yet.
So Rives, do you think/know if the SunSystem Remote system is using the Philips ballast as you thought their reflector/ballast combo unit used? Is $500 including bulb a good deal?
If so, two will be on their way shortly. Sounds like these are working best at around 3x3 so I plan to attach 1-2 36" SunBlaster T5HOs to each corner pole.
1 per on the 4x4 and 2 per on the 5x5 should provide enough side lighting, yathinks??? 39w each.
Anyone done a side by side with the Greenbeams vs anything else?
