Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[zachrockbadenof]

hammerhead- a question - as stated i have '2' hydro crunch 315's setup's (hood/ballast and bulb) i want to swap out these bulbs for the phillips 3100- online there seems to be 1/2 dozen diff phillips 3100- is there one that is better then others?? - and seeing the back n fourths ref open/closed hoods, i'm going to reinstall the safety glass the hoods came with- ..thanks in advance

 

[Hammerhead]

You do not need glass for t12 315 bulbs. Im pretty sure u cant use t9 bulbs in open fixtures as they are keyed and wont fit. Shield/glass is only for DE bulbs or t9.

There isn't a bunch made by Phillips. These are t12 for open use..
https://www.amazon.com/Philips-Master-3100K-GreenPower-Elite/dp/B00HXOJ1FG


Eye Hortilux is also making 315w bulbs now. Ive wanted to try these for awhile. These are t9 and need a closed hood.
https://www.amazon.com/Eye-Hortilux..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=HFHZBE38ER8R9M60DNM1

 

[led05]

I've been using GC for years. I know there website well. Like I said that spec sheet you posted a link to is not on there site any longer. I looked yesterday and I looked again at the new links u posted. Like I said there de bulbs can be used in any DE fixture. Its not hard to understand. Until laws are in place that states these bulbs cant be used in any fixture the language wont change.

You as the consumer need to know how to use them the right way. Have you ever seen any DE MH/CMH bulb vendor advertise they require shields in a open fixture. You wont find it. If you ever asked GC about it they would tell ya to use shields. There is no requirement that any customer has to use them. It's your choice to take that risk.






When I swapped out to CMH years ago I had a 945 explode. It caught my floor on fire. I had no clue they made shields for there bulbs. I had to find out the hard way. Any time I talk about these bulbs I always tell people to use shields or closed hood.. I don't want anyone to also find out the hard way.

Any dual 315 uses t12 which do not need to be closed or shields used.

What ever GH puts on there website is there business. They are not the same company. If I was them I would change the wording to the same as what GC uses.

it's absolutely there, what are you talking about? Please someone else chime in, this is ridiculous

I think you have good advice, the company GC is being shady here with their advertising, pretty intentional if you ask me and the responsibility is on them as well as anyone to protect oneself but when you own a company the onus is on you my friend when selling into the marketplace (take a few law classes), especially not to falsely advertise, which they are as THEY know it's not safe! Do you remember the lawsuit with McDonalds and the hot coffee, yeah, it can be that bad / ridiculous, litigious world we live in....

maybe you don't have ability to view pdf.. As clear as day, on growers choice website (why are you so hung up on GH?) under the links I posted where it says MSRP is a link called specification download which takes you to the exact documents I listed where they clearly advertise for open/enclosed fixture for their bulbs.

The onus is on the company legally not to falsely advertise nor sell dangerous products to be used in a dangerous manner. The onus is on the person to look after their arse, I do, thanks for your concerns. It's hard for me to take you serious when you claim to know their website, have been there twice in past 48 hours but can't find a simple link on every bulb page listing anyone else here who takes the time to can...

The company Growers Choice are the shady ones here, not me. I was simply pointing out and asking obvious questions which are in clear contrast to the norms of MH as I know them, being new to CMH i wasn't 100% sure, now I am, thanks for your help....

post a few less times, read a wee bit more, you would have quickly found these links are clearly still on their site, just like their false advertising and you needn't defend them at the expense of GH, it's clearly GC doing the marketing materials for their own bulbs... Man

I have to ask, are you a rep for the company Growers Choice or get paid in anyway from them? It's the only explanation making sense to me right now?

 

[Hammerhead]

You cant single out any single company. They all do the same. I dont use GH to buy GC gear. I get it directly from them. I found the PDF file. its has no language about open fixtures. That's what I have said from the get go.

Other can decide it they think GC is being shady. Your entitled to your opinion, I just disagree with it.

This shows how old this spec sheet is. They have had there CMH LFSWB out for years now.

DE CMH Lamps were designed to run optimally in a low frequency square wave ballast but we have found that they are also useful for growers who have high frequency double ended ballasts. Many growers are having issues with heat so they are dimming their fixtures down, and many other growers are switching to CMH because the richer spectrum is much better for plants, giving better yield. Utilizing these bulbs in a standard DE fixture is a great shortcut which achieves both of those goals, greatly minimizes operating expenses and grows higher quality flowers. However, it should be understood that since DE CMH bulbs were designed for low frequency ballasts, a few users may experience longevity issues in certain brands of high frequency ballast. However, we believe the amazing added benefits of the full spectrum combined with the money saving opportunity in utilizing your existing fixture far outweigh the risk of an early bulb failure, and we are developing a ballast right now that is designed specifically for our DE CMH Lamps.

 

[led05]

You cant single out any single company. They all do the same. I dont use GH to buy GC gear. I get it directly from them. I found the PDF file. its has no language about open fixtures. That's what I have said from the get go.

Other can decide it they think GC is being shady. Your entitled to your opinion, I just disagree with it.

of course it does, it clearly says open/enclosed under physical data / requirements under luminaire type; anyone who can read sees it, clearly, just like the links you claimed didn't exist, clearly there on every bulb sheet at GrowersChoice website as I've always said... I've figured out what's going on here, thanks for your help and opinions / interests.

most companies selling MH, reputable ones btw don't ever list as open (unless it truly is, like Ushios new bulb for example I already mentioned), go take a look, anyone who cares to spend a few minutes vs. just taking what one says as facts in here will come to realize this.

 

[Hammerhead]

I stand corrected. I will always admit when im wrong. I just didn't see the link for it. Like I said its very old.. It doesn't change anything. There bulbs as well as any other DE cmh vendor bulbs can be used in either open or closed. U act like there's are the only bulbs that advertise this. All CMH/MH bulbs are sold as open/closed use. No one has to use them with shields or in closed hoods. Its up to you to make that choice. I cant say it any other way. Stop blaming others for your mistakes. When I chose not to use there shields it wasn't there fault. I used there bulb with the wrong ballast with no shield. It was 100% my fault. Failures are rare. It doesn't happen very often. it always better to go by worst case so all should use shields or closed hoods with de CMH/MH. No need to keep disagreeing. I looked at ushio spec sheet. So unless these DE bulbs have 2 glass envelopes there the same as GC.

https://www.ushio.com/product/hilux-gro-ceramic-metal-halide/

The Hilux Gro™ series consist of single-ended and double-ended
HPS (High Pressure Sodium) and MH (Metal Halide) lamps as well
as the new LEC/CMH (Ceramic Metal Halide) lamp types designed
for open-rated fixtures. The Double–Ended DE Metal Halide lamp types, up to 1800
micromol/s, are available in 1000W, 6000K for Open rated
fixtures.

 

[led05]

Failures are rare. It doesn't happen very often. it always better to go by worst case so all should use shields or closed hoods with de CMH/MH.

I agree with these parts, firmly, especially in ones homes, kids, family etc.......happy growing - the new ushio bulbs btw are designed open, truly, double jacketed; again, spend some time and read up, learn; don't just claim you did like the website earlier, or spec sheet etc, the truth unfolds...

Honestly, you're fighting way too hard for GC over and over, spreading false info, over and over. Changing your posts after I quote them etc, way too much effort, saying it's growers house fault for Growers Choice own marketing docs, come on, that's plain silly. I have interest in truth & safety, it seems you have interest in safety at least...

it sure feels like more vested interest here on your part than just a mere customer in GC, since you dodged my Q the first time I won't ask it again... Cheers
..

 

[Hammerhead]

I agree with these parts, firmly, especially in ones homes, kids, family etc.......happy growing - the new ushio bulbs btw are designed open, truly, double jacketed; again, spend some time and read up, learn; don't just claim you did like the website earlier, or spec sheet etc, the truth unfolds...

Honestly, you're fighting way too hard for GC over and over, spreading false info, over and over. Changing your posts after I quote them etc, way too much effort, saying it's growers house fault for Growers Choice own marketing docs, come on, that's plain silly. I have interest in truth & safety, it seems you have interest in safety at least...

it sure feels like more vested interest here on your part than just a mere customer in GC, since you dodged my Q the first time I won't ask it again... Cheers
..

I was using solis tek matrix 1KW when the bulb exploded.



That's just stupid. Everyone knows me here well. I have no affiliation with GC. I have been using there bulbs/Lights for many years. Trying to teach you kids common sense shit is like talking to a wall. I don't post anything without looking for data. Sometimes I might miss something. When I find it I will correct myself. Usio have no info on DE cmh bulbs that I can find other that what I posted.. You cant compare t12 with DE. All of there CMH bulbs are 315w t12 which are rated for open use. Usio DE MH bulbs are not dual jacketed fro mthe pics they show.. Any CMH/MH bulb has to be dual jacketed to be rated for open fixture use which are ANSI approved.

I don't have time to deal with these kid games. I wont bother responding to ur immature BS again. I got better things to do. Those that are interested can look up the info themselves. I can guarantee GC is a solid company. No one would be disappointed with there gear. I know many that use GC fixture.. If you like Ushio knock yourself out use those.

 

[led05]

I was using solis tek matrix 1KW when the bulb exploded.



That's just stupid. Everyone knows me here well. I have no affiliation with GC. I have been using there bulbs/Lights for many years. Trying to teach you kids common sense shit is like talking to a wall. I don't post anything without looking for data. Sometimes I might miss something. When I find it I will correct myself. Usio have no info on DE cmh bulbs that I can find other that what I posted.. You cant compare t12 with DE. All of there CMH bulbs are 315w t12 which are rated for open use. Usio DE MH bulbs are not dual jacketed fro mthe pics they show.. Any CMH/MH bulb has to be dual jacketed to be rated for open fixture use which are ANSI approved.

I don't have time to deal with these kid games. I wont bother responding to ur immature BS again. I got better things to do. Those that are interested can look up the info themselves. I can guarantee GC is a solid company. No one would be disappointed with there gear. I know many that use GC fixture.. If you like Ushio knock yourself out use those.

I don't have the time either, hard to watch someone stumble and post one piece after another or erroneous info... kids..? wtf, kids? that's so spent, gees

all good (why I keep liking your posts, did you notice that?), if you don't I'll take your word, I apologize for the inference. I got a few PM's after my postings by folk who believed exactly the same fwiw, I'm glad this was cleared up.....

I only began posting because I am interested in their bulbs too. I think/feel my initial post toward you was unfair and that I'll also apologize for, what followed from you to me was odd / filled with one error / miss-truth after another.

I have no interest in 1000w bulbs, I was posting the Ushio as a reference point and nothing more.....

Who knows, maybe this is bad marketing too, though I'd be surprised if Ushio would make that mistake and expose themselves in this way...... it took me 5 seconds again to find this, where does your internet take you to?

Per Ushio Americas

https://www.ushio.com/product/hilux-gro-super-metal-halide-double-ended/

"Ushio America introduces a new DE (double-ended) Metal Halide lamp to its Hilux Gro professional horticulture lamp line. The 1000W DE Metal Halide lamp holds the highest industry quality ISO 9001 standards with best in its class reliability over lifetime.
Made in Germany and designed for usage in open luminaires, the DE Metal Halide lamp offers spectral distribution optimized for photosynthesis efficiency with up to 1,800 micromol/s output, and is available in 5500K color temperature.

Professional growers will not use just any lamps to get just any results. They require specialty-grade lamps to maximize their growth and profits. This is why professionals choose USHIO, a Japanese specialty lighting manufacturer. The USHIO Hilux Gro™ professional grade lamp types are manufactured at our European ISO 9001 certified factory and are used by a multitude of OEM’s and professionals worldwide.
"

 

[Avenger]

the ushio double ended quartz metal halide lamp (AMH-DE1000W/AGRO) is open rated because it has the extra outer glass shield, factory installed.

hard to tell from the picture if you have shit for brains

so to re-cap.

double ended ceramic metal halide lamps with multiple arc tubes in series in one outer glass envelope are shitty inventions of Frankenstein, not reputable lamp manufacturers. Buyer Beware!!

all extra safety precautions should be employed, especially when such a lamp is paired with ballast control gear that was not designed for ceramic metal halide lamps.

Frankenstein had to design the higher wattage CMH lamps with multiple arc tubes in series because of the nature of the beast. It is not realistic to manufacture a 630 watt CMH with only a single arc tube because of the very high pressure/temperature inside the arc tube. Failure rates would be too high to manage.

So in classic Frankenstein fashion they cobbled some shit together to cover the market demand.$$$$$$$$ with little or no concern for the end user.

BUYER BEWARE!!!!

 

[led05]

double ended ceramic metal halide lamps with multiple arc tubes in series in one outer glass envelope are shitty inventions of Frankenstein, not reputable lamp manufacturers. Buyer Beware!!

all extra safety precautions should be employed, especially when such a lamp is paired with ballast control gear that was not designed for ceramic metal halide lamps.

Frankenstein had to design the higher wattage CMH lamps with multiple arc tubes in series because of the nature of the beast. It is not realistic to manufacture a 630 watt CMH with only a single arc tube because of the very high pressure/temperature inside the arc tube. Failure rates would be too high to manage.

So in classic Frankenstein fashion they cobbled some shit together to cover the market demand.$$$$$$$$ with little or no concern for the end user.

BUYER BEWARE!!!!

bingo....... thanks buddy.. The funny thing too is when people do pair with the extra glass in their hoods they are blocking a lot of the good light spectrums from CMH, I'm sure most aren't buying expensive glass (or any for that matter, sadly) to fit their hoods that allows full light spectrums to pass....... since we're all sharing the truth here might as well get it all out...

 

[gh0stm0de]

the ushio double ended quartz metal halide lamp (AMH-DE1000W/AGRO) is open rated because it has the extra outer glass shield, factory installed.

hard to tell from the picture if you have shit for brains

so to re-cap.

double ended ceramic metal halide lamps with multiple arc tubes in series in one outer glass envelope are shitty inventions of Frankenstein, not reputable lamp manufacturers. Buyer Beware!!

all extra safety precautions should be employed, especially when such a lamp is paired with ballast control gear that was not designed for ceramic metal halide lamps.

Frankenstein had to design the higher wattage CMH lamps with multiple arc tubes in series because of the nature of the beast. It is not realistic to manufacture a 630 watt CMH with only a single arc tube because of the very high pressure/temperature inside the arc tube. Failure rates would be too high to manage.

So in classic Frankenstein fashion they cobbled some shit together to cover the market demand.$$$$$$$$ with little or no concern for the end user.

BUYER BEWARE!!!!

Spoke to guy at Sunlight. He says they are working to release 1000w DE CMH with 2x 500w arc tubes.

 

[rives]

Spoke to guy at Sunlight. He says they are working to release 1000w DE CMH with 2x 500w arc tubes.

I can guarantee that Sunlight isn't making that lamp - they are undoubtedly private-labeling some Chinese experimental lamp.

Sunlight, with all of it's divisions, has an annual revenue ranging from $20-100 million.

Philips lamp division alone has an annual revenue of over $2 billion, and they do make their own lamps.

I've got a pretty good idea whose R&D that I would trust.

 

[oti$]

So, I bought a couple 630de cmh lights a while back with the intention of switching all my lights, but now they are no longer making them. Is the 1000 watt de ballast from growers choice a low frequency ballast? I'm kind of confused about which direction I'm going with lighting now. Would I be better off getting se 315 cmh fixtures with the lswf ballasts?

 

[Avenger]

Would I be better off getting se 315 cmh fixtures with the lswf ballasts?

in my opinion, yes

correctly matched lamp and control gear for the win.

This is the only way to get the full advantage of the technology.

 

[Avenger]

NEMA Best Practices for Metal Halide Lighting Systems

https://www.geappliances.com/email/lighting/specifier/2008_07/downloads/NEMABestPractices.pdf





https://gavita.com/retail/app/uploads/Light-Matters-6-GCM-US15-2.pdf

 

[oti$]

Anyone with ceramic solutions experience ? They have a 630 de fixture with LFSW ballast for 270$ shipped. Sounds like a decent deal.

 

[Hammerhead]

the ushio double ended quartz metal halide lamp (AMH-DE1000W/AGRO) is open rated because it has the extra outer glass shield, factory installed.

hard to tell from the picture if you have shit for brains

so to re-cap.

double ended ceramic metal halide lamps with multiple arc tubes in series in one outer glass envelope are shitty inventions of Frankenstein, not reputable lamp manufacturers. Buyer Beware!!

all extra safety precautions should be employed, especially when such a lamp is paired with ballast control gear that was not designed for ceramic metal halide lamps.

Frankenstein had to design the higher wattage CMH lamps with multiple arc tubes in series because of the nature of the beast. It is not realistic to manufacture a 630 watt CMH with only a single arc tube because of the very high pressure/temperature inside the arc tube. Failure rates would be too high to manage.

So in classic Frankenstein fashion they cobbled some shit together to cover the market demand.$$$$$$$$ with little or no concern for the end user.

BUYER BEWARE!!!!

Looks like Ushio De MH bulbs have no gap between the 1st and 2nd glass.. Its def not easy for me to tell they use 2 so im ok having shit for brains. Every other DE CMH bulb that uses 2 has a good gap between them. No mistaking there are 2. MH lamps have very different spectrum's vs CMH. IMO MH lamps are not worth using anymore. CMH bulbs are better in every way vs MH IMO. I don't see any DE CMH bulbs made by Ushio.

Ushio DE MH. You have to look good to see it..

Here is Lumatek version. No mistaking it has 2.

GC has the same design. Easy to see they are 2.

The Advantages of CMH Grow Lights

There’s a reason people are looking into CMH grow lights, and it’s the huge list of advantages when compared to almost every other grow light option.

Balanced spectrum: Not only do you get a more balanced spectrum that hits almost every sweet spot for your plants but they’re also better at turning your electricity into usable light.

By comparison, HPS and MH lights waste a lot of energy producing light at ranges that are not efficiently used by plants. This means that CMH are more PAR efficient than either HPS or MH, making them a better single light solution.

Color Rendering Index: They also have a more natural CRI (Color Rendering Index). CRI describes how the color of a light source changes how an object appears to the human eyes and how well subtle variations in color shades are revealed. The higher the CRI, the more realistic things look. CMH grow lights are generally rated between 80 to 96 CRI, by comparison, the sun is rated at 100 CRI. This means that CMH grow lights will let you see the true color of your plants without making your grow room look yellow, blue or purple.

Ultraviolet Radiation: CMH grow lights provide UV (ultra violet) radiation, which although being outside of our range of vision is beneficial (at certain ranges and intensities) to plant growth and development. They produce UV-A, UV-B and UV-C Light, but UV-C is generally very harmful to human eyes. So most high quality manufacturers use a glass filter to block the UV-C output while leaving UV-A and UV-B output intact.

Ceramic arc tubes are more resistant to breakdown, so they last a lot longer than MH and HPS bulbs when used with a LFSWB. In fact, CMH grow lights tend to last over 20,000 hours while keeping at least 80% of their original intensity at the 20,000-hour mark. This overshadows the common 10,000-hour replacement rule for HPS & MH bulbs. A benefit of the square-wave technology ballasts required to run them, is that you won’t have to deal with the electromagnetic interference (EMI) issues many growers experience with digital ballasts.

 

[Hammerhead]

So, I bought a couple 630de cmh lights a while back with the intention of switching all my lights, but now they are no longer making them. Is the 1000 watt de ballast from growers choice a low frequency ballast? I'm kind of confused about which direction I'm going with lighting now. Would I be better off getting se 315 cmh fixtures with the lswf ballasts?

There 1kw DE fixtures are not LFSWB. I've been using my old Epap 1kw with a 1kw cmh bulb for a long time no issues. I do have shields installed on all DE cmh bulbs. They still make 630w dual 315w fixtures. This is what replaced there DE CMH fixtures. I have 2 of these and 2 of the old DE style. The rest are old DE hoods with LFSWB running them. Total 4100w CMH.

Anyone with ceramic solutions experience ? They have a 630 de fixture with LFSW ballast for 270$ shipped. Sounds like a decent deal.

I use 3 of there ballast. I've never used the fixtures. There ballast have worked well for many years.

Spoke to guy at Sunlight. He says they are working to release 1000w DE CMH with 2x 500w arc tubes.

GC already offers these bulbs. GC is not a bulb manufacturing company. All of there bulbs are out sourced to s company in China. All GC does is tell them what kind of specs they want.

 

[Dirt Bag]

There are commercial Ushio DE 1000W LEC. They look a lot like a HPS. No, I don't know how, but the construction coordinator at a commercial grow being built here said they get them from Germany. I cannot find any information online but I have seen the pallets of boxes. I wasn't comfortable taking pictures of them with that guy around, but will check back periodically to inspect their progress.
Currently, the underground electric supply is going in and is intriguing.