Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Gloomshade]

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Inflection is so hard to read on the interwebs. Just to be safe: LEC is CMH, they're the same thing, the same exact lamp is in use (Philips Mastercolor 942 T12 or the GreenPower), but SunSystems decided to call it LEC to make it sound special, which it's not.

In my mind LEC is referring to the technology present in the 315s. And CMH refers to older technology. But yeah, its all CMH.

 

[HenDokuYaku]

dimlux 630

dimlux 630

Hey BTT,

Have you had a chance to look at the Dimlux reflectors? They have been tested to be 98% efficient. They are based on the single bounce clear sight theory. I noticed that the Gavita guy was starting to bash them as well, so they must be pretty good.

 

[Beta Test Team]

No, I haven't.

But I can say there's zero chance they're 98% efficient (defined as % of PAR range radiation emitted by the lamp that exits the reflector), but they could very well use 98% reflective insert (defined as the peak % reflectivity over PAR range, not as 98% over the whole PAR range). That type of claim is also what Gavita and many other companies use to confuse consumers and make it seem like their reflectors are better than they really are.

By the way, thanks for posting that. I wasn't aware they're selling a duel Phlips 315W CMH luminaire. A MSRP of $899 is pretty reasonable when compared to other Philips 315W CMH luminaires. However, I don't like the ballast being connected to the reflector, I prefer remote ballasts to reduce heat load in the room.

EDIT:
I just look at that webpage for that product (http://www.urbnag.com/products/dimlux-expert-series-630w-dual-full-spectrum/) and it's what I wrote above, they're referring to the reflectivity of the reflector insert (98%), not the efficiency of the reflector. What I see as a good move by them is they didn't claim the 98% value is reflector efficiency, so that's nice to see them being honest! (Gavita could learn a thing or two about honesty from them...)

However, they're being a bit dishonest with this claim: "In terms of efficiency, Dimlux Expert Series Complete CDM Lights kick out more micromoles per watt (1.9 umol/Watt) than competing models." Because it's the Greenpower lamp from Philips that has photosynthetic efficiency of 1.9 umol/s in PAR range per input watt. So for example, the Greenbeams luminaire running the Greenpower lamp also has 1.9 umol/s in PAR range per input watt, as does the dPapillion luminaire running the Greenpower lamp (or more accurately, the Greenpower lamp efficiency is about 1.91). It's not due to the Dimilux ballast, it's due to the Philips Greenpower lamp that they can boast of a 1.9 umol/s in PAR range per input watt value.

Also, their claim they use single reflection per photon ('one bounce and out' as Cycloptics likes to call it) is quite questionable. While it's true the gull-wing style reflector can be designed such that photon re-strike is very limited (there will very likely be some re-strike, even with specular insert), that's only true when the reflector isn't adjusted. Because when a grower adjusts the reflector (like they say can be done on the webpage) that would change the angle of incidence and therefore increase re-strike in most cases.

 

[HenDokuYaku]

The ballast is actually removable as is the reflectors, the reflector insert, etc. I'm not sure if it would work as a remote ballast, but you can remove it from the fixture. I'll play around with them later and see if I can take some pics.

 

[Beta Test Team]

In my mind LEC is referring to the technology present in the 315s. And CMH refers to older technology. But yeah, its all CMH.

I guess that's similar to Philips calling their lamps this thread is about (MasterColor 315W T12 versions) "CDM," while they're really CMH lamps. Philips using "CDM" also gets on my nerves a bit, just like SunSystem using "LEC."

As long as people know that CDM and LEC are really technically CMH lamps 'it's all gravy' (as the kids say).

 

[Beta Test Team]

The ballast is actually removable as is the reflectors, the reflector insert, etc. I'm not sure if it would work as a remote ballast, but you can remove it from the fixture. I'll play around with them later and see if I can take some pics.

Good to know, thanks!

I am not the right person to comment on their ballasts, I think rives or Jhhnn would be better than I. But I can say I like what I've read about the ballasts; I like they can be dimmed natively, something I don't like about the Philips e-Vision and Gel CeramaTek ballasts (that is, to dim them additional hardware is required).

By the way, I updated my post to you (quite a lot), possibly after you read the original post.

 

[LargePrime]

don't like about the Philips e-Vision and Gel CeramaTek ballasts (that is, to dim them additional hardware is required).

On my Philips, you just connect the two wires together to dim. Have they changed?

 

[Beta Test Team]

No, but what I meant was having a choice to easily dim by various % of total. Like dim to 50%, 60%, 705, 80%, or 90%. I had to hire an electrician to rig up a system on the custom made sub-panel so I can dim all the ballasts at once to the % I need to achieve specific DLI for veg and for flowering.

I'm all thumbs when it comes to wires and electronics, I don't even want to learn about it, so I just hire people to do it for me and make me custom controllers to suite my needs. The more user friendly it is the happier I am, so in my mind the Philips ballast is a major PITA.

 

[LargePrime]

rives, could one put a simple typical 120V wall dimmer on the Philips dimmer lines? would that work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-10V-outpu...023?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b23ba7df

30$ one with a fancy remote

 

[HUGE]

I'm getting a quote in the 700$ range for the 630w DDpap.

 

[HUGE]

I believe the sunlightsupply 630 is 100-200 cheaper but doesn't have dim feature.

 

[Beta Test Team]

I'm getting a quote in the 700$ range for the 630w DDpap.

That's great, thanks for the info. That's more along what I thought the pricing would be. That puts it back into the price point for using in large operations. Mixing that with the normal ePapillion (like 1:1) would be nice, if not using all Double dPapillion luminaires.

 

[FunkBomb]

I've been using a LEC 315 for the past few weeks and am very impressed with it. Anyone who needs bulbs you can get them (3100 or 4200 k) for $70 at 4hydroponics dot com.

-Funk

 

[rives]

Also, rives, I think the teflon leads are not so much temp protected but high voltage rated. The leads are good to 7500v apparently.

The voltage protection has never made any sense to me - yes, they are high-temp, high-voltage leads, but when you make the upstream connection from the reflector to the ballast, you drop back to a 600v rated cord (at best, with SO cord). Every commercial fixture that I've ever seen used high temperature leads because of the very high temperatures see at both the socket and the ballast.

 

[rives]

rives, could one put a simple typical 120V wall dimmer on the Philips dimmer lines? would that work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-10V-outpu...023?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b23ba7df

30$ one with a fancy remote

That one looks like it would work fine, but it isn't what I would call "a simple typical 120V wall dimmer" - that description brings to mind a rheostat control for an incandescent light, where your link and the ballasts requirement is for a 0-10vdc device.

Nice find.

 

[LargePrime]

That one looks like it would work fine, but it isn't what I would call "a simple typical 120V wall dimmer" - that description brings to mind a rheostat control for an incandescent light, where your link and the ballasts requirement is for a 0-10vdc device.

Nice find.

I was stream of consciousness posting I guess.

I meant to ask if a straight rheostat 120VAC wall dimmer would work for our 0-10V DC needs. Would it?

 

[Beta Test Team]

rives and LargePrime, this is what Philips wrote to me (via. Cycloptics) about dimming their ballast as I wrote above (so I can choose specific % to dim to):

You can’t have the system hit exactly 100% power at 10.0V or fully dimmed (50%) at 0.0 volts because it doesn’t allow for any tolerances due to the controls, wiring, etc.

For this ballast the lamp power will be relatively linear within a dimming control voltage range between approximately 2.5V and 7.5V. Above ~7.5V the lamp will be at full power (100% of nominal), and below ~2.5V the lamp will be at minimum power (approx. 50% of nominal).

And here's the figure they sent me:

 

[Beta Test Team]

When I was working with Dan from DxHydro for him to build me another custom sub-panel for the 12 GB with dimming, these were his plans.

Really, I think the best thing for you would be a power supply with a voltage indicator an LED display that read 50 to 100% would be really nice.

I worked out a simple program to dim your lights: A 10v variable DC supply with an LCD display that indicates percentage rather than voltage. It’s just a breadboard design but very simple with a generic made power supply board, an Atmel based Arduino microcontroller circuit board (about the size of a matchbox) and an LCD display. The whole thing will fit inside an enclosure about 2x4x1.25” that can be attached to controller or wall with Velcro or two sided tape.

0-10v DC control w/display for dimming. Planning 0-10v voltage display but I might be able to come up with a converter to indicate 50 to 100% using a microcontroller module and LCD display. Would be a lot cooler than a straight voltage display and something I could then sell to other users of these lights.

 

[Beta Test Team]

I think it would be great if someone sold a setup that can be used to dim the Philips e-Vision ballast, like what Dan wrote about in the quotes above.

For someone like me, who really doesn't know anything about electricity or wiring, and really doesn't want to learn, a plug-and-play type of setup would be awesome.

 

[LargePrime]

you didn't like the one i linked on ebay?